Cruising Yacht- realistic expectations for a newbie?

del85

Hello all!

Complete novice here, I've done a fair bit of lurking and youtube-ing and have decided that I'd like to get into sailing.

More than likely going to start with an introductory course, then competent crew course, then day skipper and so on to learn what I need to, and then hopefully buy something in my price range, which would be around 15,000 to 20,000 I suppose.

I've been looking on Apollo duck etc and doing some background reading, and I'm thinking something in the 27ft to 30ft range (Catalina 27 maybe?) is doable in that price range, and that's about the size I could afford to keep in a marina. Greystones maybe.

So far, so good, but I'm finding it difficult to get some straightforward info on what my expectations should be with a boat like that. I've no ambitions for circumnavigating the globe or anything of the sort, but after a bit of practice, is it realistically possible to sail shorthand or single-handed to, say, the UK? Or beyond that, even to France or Spain? Plenty of people on youtube doing it, but I'm not sure they represent the "average" person with a cruising yacht. Do most people just sail up and down the Irish coast (which sounds great too by the way!)?

I'm definitely going to give it a go either way, but would be interested in a (blunt) estimation of what's realistic and safe sailing in a cruising yacht of that category. Thanks in advance!

HeidiHeidi

My mantra is that (most) boats will go anywhere, it's the crew that is the weak link.



Going solo or short handed further afield will need experience. A couple of courses will teach you the theory, but it's miles under your belt that will lend you experience of varying conditions, and when the **** hits the fan, and when you're miles from anywhere and have had enough, and when you're flattened from seasickness and just want to die - but will also give you the magic moments (of which there are many!).



I also don't "get" solo sailing, so can't help any further on that front - to me, sailing is all about the teamwork and cameraderie and shared experience, I have absolutely zero interest in ever going anywhere on my own in a boat!


Take it one step at a time, is my advice. Get some miles under your belt on various boats before committing to actually buying a boat - those miles will also help guide you towards what you want from a boat and what might meet your needs. Also, buying a boat is the cheapest bit - owning, maintaining and berthing a boat is an ongoing cost that's not cheap, especially on the east coast.


Best of luck with it all, sailing is the MOST fantastic thing, I discovered it in my 30's and only wish I'd had a lifetime of it, but have been making up for lost time ever since!

del85

Thanks for the considered reply!

Yep I hear you and I fully intend to do some beginners courses and really find out if the reality matches expectations for me.

I'm in no rush to go out and buy a boat, but it was a bit of an epiphany to me that I might actually be able to afford one. I had assumed you had to basically be a millionaire! I just want to make sure I'm not getting my hopes up, because I'm just surprised at the brilliant looking sail boats that can be gotten basically at the same price as a new Ford Fiesta, I just don't know what boats in that price category can do. Your points about experience mattering more and upkeep/marina costs are well taken though.

I like the idea of coastal sailing with a couple of friends, but I'm not sure my circle would be the sea-faring type hence the interest in short-hand/solo trips- I don't mind my own company either and sure where better

noby

As soon as you have the basics done, try and see if you could volunteer to crew at a local sailing club. This will give you good experience, and also a good idea of different size and types of boats.

I have done very little sailing in the last few years (life getting in the way), but I have a 22' boost, which is manageable for solo as well as taking a couple of crew, if slightly cramped.

A little bigger will give you more cabin space, but I have spoken with people who have gone bigger again, and now can't manage without crew - something to bare in mind. Talk to as many people as you can for real life experiences.

I do like solo sailing, but it takes time, and you need to be organised. Something to build towards.

spaceHopper

Guy I know did his open water diving course. Couple of weeks later he's offered a last minute spot on an advanced course. He lost control of the bouancy jacket at 18 meters. Came up to fast puked took a while for the boat to pick him up. He's never dived again.

Do the courses but join a club get to know people get miles under your veld. Look at Greystonesbray sailing club or Sailing in Dublin Club.

Alkers

Anything 27 foot plus will have no issue making it to France or the UK but realistically you'll need two people who know what they're doing to do any form of trip like that.
Are you in a position to move around with the boat? It can get fairly boring doing the same few daytrips from your home marina unless you get into racing or have friends who'll be up for weekends away and that.
I would recommend maybe doing the introductory course here then look at combining the other courses with sailing holidays before purchasing a boat. For that kind of money, renting for a week or two each year might be a good option especially until your skills improve to the extent you're competent to go out short-handed. Get yourself a dinghy in the meantime for practice

pedroeibar1

del85 wrote: »

I'm definitely going to give it a go either way, but would be interested in a (blunt) estimation of what's realistic and safe sailing in a cruising yacht of that category. Thanks in advance!

Well, a blunt estimation on what you have written is that it is utter rubbish. Without any sailing experience and using YouTube to select a boat and to plan voyages is both nonsense and dangerous. As Heidi says, learn the ropes first, then see what your needs are and what suits them. Catalina 27’s are old, uncommon in Europe and not very fast. Going offshore would require an investment in gear/rigging that would substantially increase your budget. Have you any idea of how long it takes to sail from Ireland to the north coast of Spain? Or even to sail from Ireland to UK or France? Or how many busy shipping lanes you have to cross? Or what the tides do off Ushant or the Raz du Seine? Or how sleep deprivation affects your? Go away and do a sailing course first and then your posts here might be taken more seriously and you will get more friendly advice. (Even from me!)

del85

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Well, a blunt estimation on what you have written is that it is utter rubbish. Without any sailing experience and using YouTube to select a boat and to plan voyages is both nonsense and dangerous. As Heidi says, learn the ropes first, then see what your needs are and what suits them. Catalina 27’s are old, uncommon in Europe and not very fast. Going offshore would require an investment in gear/rigging that would substantially increase your budget. Have you any idea of how long it takes to sail from Ireland to the north coast of Spain? Or even to sail from Ireland to UK or France? Or how many busy shipping lanes you have to cross? Or what the tides do off Ushant or the Raz du Seine? Or how sleep deprivation affects your? Go away and do a sailing course first and then your posts here might be taken more seriously and you will get more friendly advice. (Even from me!)

Yes I'm aware I need to go away and do a sailing course and no I have no intention of buying boats or planning voyages via youtube. I know enough to know I don't know enough. But thanks for the feedback, I suppose I did ask for blunt.

pedroeibar1

del85 wrote: »

Yes I'm aware I need to go away and do a sailing course and no I have no intention of buying boats or planning voyages via youtube. I know enough to know I don't know enough. But thanks for the feedback, I suppose I did ask for blunt.

What you want to do can be achieved. It's just a bit early for you to be talking about it. Looking at your posting history, you might be interested to know that an acquaintance of mine moved to the US after his internship, practiced for a few years in the MidWest, learned to sail on the Great Lakes and when he decided to return to Ireland did so transAtlantic in his own boat with wife and a few friends.

JustAThought

OP its great to.have ambitions and plans and to be looking to see how realistic they are and if they can put into action with a few years of training and practice and a solid budget.

I'm not sure where you are based but many places have local sailing clubs -go coastal not inshore lakes - and the best thing to.do after.you do a sail training course would be to (volunteer) as crew.on one of the boats.racing in the summer series. You've left it a bit late for this year but there is still time to do a course and see if you like it and hopefully you might be able to get a few days racing or sailing in by checking local notice boards in clubs/with the club secretary or on the online crew needed forums.
Dropping into the club is always a better option and of course you will heed to have the course done first!

Some clubs - and Clontarf is a great one - go all out with their adult training course to match you up with different types of boats during and after their adult training course so that you get a chance to practice the skills tou have learned and try out different types of boats.You would be very surprised in the range and difference! I would really reccommend them. Many courses just give you a few hours on the water and then you are left high and dry with no access to boats without outlaying another 250 on another course You have to to get used to being on the water in different conditions and flex the skills you have learned to be able to progress properly. Most racing crews do want someone with some boat experience or basic sea and racing skills and a 2 or 3 day course wont really deliver enough for you to be a huge help to a competitive crew. I think clontarfs website is www.cbyc.ie and of all the courses I have done and clubs I havs sailed in it is really a dynamic and extremely helpful and adult beginner club and I would really recommend their adult sailing course - they used run one later in the season so keep an eye out. They are extremely friendly and very proactive in keeping you going and on the water once you do their training course.

From my experience many boatowners do not do the kind of long distance sailing trip you propose. This is mostly to do with time and crew availability. The distances are huge and unless you are motoring you have to factor in wind (or lack of), its forecast and strength, your boats and crews abilities and the amount of time.you and your crew.would need to take off work just to get there - and then you would have to try and sail back against tide and wind in vast open sea. Far more attractive is to fly out and charter - this way you dont have to worry about travel time there but could.spend your holiday cruising along the spanish/french coast : dropping into marinas and mooring up for the night or a few days and doing day trips sailing from a base or hiring a crew/most likely local skipper who will sail with you and help negotiate the pitfalls/hazzards and make the experience far less of an ordeal and far more relaxed. You can helm and plot the courses/choose the trips but they are there to guide and assist and lead by experience.

You will also find bare board hires/charters -Croatia is very popular - where you can fly and hire/charter and have a relaxed cruising holiday - picking the boat up and ine location and cruising to a final destination and leaving it there and then hiring a car or going by coach with others to the forst maruna and returning to a hotel before flying home. Very relaxing and you can also be part of a flotilla of other boat hires doing this. There are all kind of variations!!

I did one out of Gibraltar a few years back and along the (barren) coast of Spain - challending but visually dull sailing (I'd expected Dalkey with palmtrees but got flat barren desert and vicious offshore burning winds) but the evening sailing and marinas were beautiful and I woild definately do it agin and take.more short 5 or 6 hour (sailing) trips rather than long distance 3 or 4 days port to port non stop sails. It gets very smelly in 40'C sun with limited water to shower and no ice!

I would definately not buy any boat before I had a fair bit of sailing experience. To cruise in anything less than 36 foot is hardship - bear in mind you will also need crew and once you have sailed with 4 or 6 in a small boat you will probably not be long readjusting your requirements. This is of course with no offense to anyone sailing or racing in smaller craft which can be exciting and very dynamic but possibly not what everyone wants for longer offshore sailing.

Re long distance solo sailing its really not advised nor at all really common- this is why the conviviality of clubs and teaming up with others to form crew and shared experiences is really important. Many sailing people have a repetiore of different types of crew that they can invite to do trips with them or breed their own family for this purpose! You will probably find that in clubs people all scout about on the QT to find compatible crew for bigger advuntires which would usually involve sharing costs ( fuel,food,marina berthing etc) or join together to charter a (usually more luxurious than normal) yacht somewhre abroad to do a planned summer excursion with. More typically though this is done with reluctant wives and family.

You can also find online companies that offer sailing excursions with skipper and crew -often in a training capacity where strangers can meet and form a crew for a specific trip over a particular time. These are usually quite expensive though but isually somewhere nice!

I hope that is of some help! Start as you had suggested and do an ADULT training course - if at all possible I'd recommend Clontarf simply because of their follow up crew focus which is where many of the big clubs fail and where most private instruction schools do not deliver.

Welcome to the sailing community and the wonderful world of all things boats!! You will fund all clubs a mixed bumch and there are always people willing to share a yarn and be helpful as well as the knowitalls and occasional putdowners - they are everywhere - but once you are in people and usually genuinely nice and have your best interests at heart. You know the definition of owning a boat - standing in the shower tearing up fifty euro notes!The berthing/club/maruna and ongoing maintenance and wintering costs can be high enough (plan for 4- 5k a year at low level) so the longer you spend getting your skills up to par by crewing and being part of a club and community the better choice you will make for you when the time comes. And only because you are so nrw and talking abput buying- never buy any boat without a infentory including trailer, engines, partd and sail sets AND always with a professional survey even if gou going through a broker. There are no NCT's on boats and little or no comeback if you buy a total dud or the one someone has been trying to offload for years that everyone knows about and noone will touch.

Do a course,volunteer to crew and welcome to.the wondeful,frustrating,timeabsorbing wild of sailing and the world of boats,broken little things and DIY.

Tabnabs

I enjoyed the challenge of single handed sailing and found that up to about 28ft was very manageable. After that, unless you are going blue water cruising then extra length just means extra costs.

15 - 20,000 buys you a lot of boat in the sub 30ft size. The Irish fleet has been badly thinned out by the recession and the UK will likely be the best market to look to.

If it were me, I'd be looking at something along these lines:
https://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/sadler-29/569969
https://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/moody-27/579099
https://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/westerly-merlin/345127

All well known brands and much respected.

There are two camps, in the main, the racers and the cruisers and both are often miles apart when they think about what they are after in sailing. Racing is the antithesis of stepping foot on a boat for me, but each to their own.

Depending on where you are located, I would echo the Sailing in Dublin Club, based in Dun Laoghaire and with a fleet of boats to try out.

fenris

For a 25 to 30 foot boat kept in a marina like Greystones or Dun Laoghaire you need to budget approx. 4k per year to cover marina fees (approx 3k) and the rest to cover engine service and lift out for anti-fouling and a very small amount of "other stuff". Boat "other stuff" gets expensive very quickly!

There are lots of opportunities to just get out and sail with the various clubs as most are crying out for crew for weekend or evening racing, the fact that they are crying out for crew also gives a little hint about not buying a boat that need a lot of crew to get out sailing!

A bit of non shouty racing is a great way to get a feeling for sailing on different types of boats, you start off feeling that you will never get the hang of it, then over time you start to get a feeling for what is going on and then you are hooked!

Racing is a great skill builder for cruising, you will find that people are more willing to bring you racing than cruising for anything more than a very short day trip as cruising needs a more in depth knowledge / skill set than you usually find at the lower end of racing, where someone decides on mark positioning and various race parameters for you so that you are really only concerned with the course that should be achievable if the race officer is any good. Tactically you will learn a lot about boat and sail handling in quite a compressed time frame.

Cruising means that you need more skills in getting on and off moorings / unfamiliar berths, passage planning, weather forecasting, go /no go decision making etc. nobody is going to move the Codling bank for you in order to make your course achievable if the wind changes :-)


Personally I get my racing fix by crewing for the boat next door while leaving my own boat setup for solo sailing and cruising with the kids.

I also know that the boats that I have bought have not been the ones that I would have considered buying during my initial research!