Ireland agrees to plan on migrant resettlement

Augme

Augme wrote: »

Haha, Ive seen some odd logic to disprove things but this takes the biscuit.

"Yea, due to the 230 reported rapes I'm not going to bother reporting my house being robbed or my car being stolen. "

https://quillette.com/2017/10/10/swedens-sexual-assault-crisis-presents-feminist-paradox/

As a feminist I find this article calm and non-hyperbolic. I don't want the advances we have made as a society in women's rights in my lifetime eroded through complacency. Frankly, the reports are stark, depressing and base.

It is frustrating to try and find unbiased links for this debate as both left and right wing sites find their opinion first and then find facts to suit it.

In the interests of balance, here's an article showing most migration into Ireland is from within the EU, and then from the US and Canada. We aren't being overwhelmed or anything, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have this debate now. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/no-impact-from-additional-refugees-on-irish-workforce-population-says-report-1.3537865

mvl

Deleted User wrote: »

https://quillette.com/2017/10/10/swedens-sexual-assault-crisis-presents-feminist-paradox/

As a feminist I find this article calm and non-hyperbolic. I don't want the advances we have made as a society in women's rights in my lifetime eroded through complacency. Frankly, the reports are stark, depressing and base.

+1

Deleted User wrote: »

In the interests of balance, here's an article showing most migration into Ireland is from within the EU, and then from the US and Canada. We aren't being overwhelmed or anything, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have this debate now. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/no-impact-from-additional-refugees-on-irish-workforce-population-says-report-1.3537865

Wouldn't steer this thread to migrant workers, as this thread reflects concerns about displaced migrants, and accepting them here has a cost on public services that are already overwhelmed. IMO this is not about the impact on the workforce, but rather where would this be financed from, long term, would there be a ROI, and at what cost for general population.

So do wonder what financial incentive is provided by EU for countries accepting migrant resettlement ? From this article it sounds "The European Commission has allocated more than €1.5bn to Greece since 2015 to manage the refugee crisis and says that additional emergency support is on offer." .

Unfortunately, where all this effort might end up, if not resourced proper (quote from same article on Greece) "even if refugee children eventually manage to get somewhere safe, their prospects are bleak, because most will never have a chance to go to school — a reality that will severely undermine their ability to find gainful employment.".

n97 mini

Deleted User wrote: »

In the interests of balance, here's an article showing most migration into Ireland is from within the EU, and then from the US and Canada. We aren't being overwhelmed or anything, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have this debate now. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/no-impact-from-additional-refugees-on-irish-workforce-population-says-report-1.3537865

The devil is in the detail. From that article:

Taking into account the low participation rates of refugees, the impact on the labour market as a whole will be limited to about “0.24 per cent”.

Kivaro

mvl wrote: »

Wouldn't steer this thread to migrant workers, as this thread reflects concerns about displaced migrants, and accepting them here has a cost on public services that are already overwhelmed. IMO this is not about the impact on the workforce, but rather where would this be financed from, long term, would there be a ROI, and at what cost for general population.

Thanks myl.
Don't know why the previous poster started talking about EU migration.

We are a net financial contributor to the EU, so I do not know if they would give us money to lessen the burden of supporting the African migrants in this new resettlement. There really should be a per-capita breakdown provided by Fine Gael in the total costs involved in supporting these economic migrants. The overwhelming majority of the migrants taken off the boats in the Mediterranean are young males, and irrespective of being told that around 50% of them have a college degree (which is self-reported by the migrants themselves and regarded as fact by some), vast resources would have to expended on the migrants in order to get them to a level where they could be productive, contributing members in Irish society. And this could take many years of education, financial/welfare support, housing, healthcare and mental support services etc. etc.

Patrick2010

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/nearly-6200-asylum-seekers-receiving-allowance-of-less-than-39-a-week-942556.html

6,190 asylum seekers in Ireland are receiving an allowance of less than €39 a week.

Every adult in direct-provision accommodation gets €38.80 a week, while €29.80 is paid for each child.

According to the Department of Social Protection, 4,380 adults and 1,810 children are receiving these allowances.

Lucky Khambule, from the Movement of Asylum-Seekers in Ireland (MASI), says the rates are far too low.

"It is far below the poverty line," said Mr Khambule.

So a family of 4 will get 140 euro a week with all their accommodation and meals provided, around 12 million a year along with the many more millions paying for direct provision.

The MASI twitter account is interesting https://twitter.com/masi_asylum?lang=en

JohnMc1

Patrick2010 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/nearly-6200-asylum-seekers-receiving-allowance-of-less-than-39-a-week-942556.html

6,190 asylum seekers in Ireland are receiving an allowance of less than €39 a week.

Every adult in direct-provision accommodation gets €38.80 a week, while €29.80 is paid for each child.

According to the Department of Social Protection, 4,380 adults and 1,810 children are receiving these allowances.

Lucky Khambule, from the Movement of Asylum-Seekers in Ireland (MASI), says the rates are far too low.

"It is far below the poverty line," said Mr Khambule.

So a family of 4 will get 140 euro a week with all their accommodation and meals provided, around 12 million a year along with the many more millions paying for direct provision.

The MASI twitter account is interesting https://twitter.com/masi_asylum?lang=en

I noticed none of them were in a hurry to post their addresses so that the migrants can stay with them.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

https://quillette.com/2017/10/10/swedens-sexual-assault-crisis-presents-feminist-paradox/

As a feminist I find this article calm and non-hyperbolic. I don't want the advances we have made as a society in women's rights in my lifetime eroded through complacency. Frankly, the reports are stark, depressing and base.

It is frustrating to try and find unbiased links for this debate as both left and right wing sites find their opinion first and then find facts to suit it.

In the interests of balance, here's an article showing most migration into Ireland is from within the EU, and then from the US and Canada. We aren't being overwhelmed or anything, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have this debate now. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/no-impact-from-additional-refugees-on-irish-workforce-population-says-report-1.3537865

You do realise feminists are notorious for completely misrepresenting studies and statistics to suit their narratives right.

The fact that we live in an era where people are buying, wholesale, into identity politics makes it much harder for us as a society to have meaningful public discourse on very real issues that are affecting our society and our communities...because people who buy into identity politics are radicals and you cannot reason with radicals!

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

You do realise feminists are notorious for completely misrepresenting studies and statistics to suit their narratives right.

The fact that we live in an era where people are buying, wholesale, into identity politics makes it much harder for us as a society to have meaningful public discourse on very real issues that are affecting our society and our communities...because people who buy into identity politics are radicals and you cannot reason with radicals!

I think all sides are guilty of that, tbf.

I fully agree the current move to restrict the freedom of speech and to "deplatform" people you disagree with is a massive threat to the freedoms we all enjoy.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

I think all sides are guilty of that, tbf.

I fully agree the current move to restrict the freedom of speech and to "deplatform" people you disagree with is a massive threat to the freedoms we all enjoy.

But you identified as a feminist...it makes you just as bad as the people on the extreme ends of left and right...you are all drinking koolaid, probably as a consequence of online/social media rabbit holes.

Feminism cannot be criticized, immigration cannot be criticized, along with a host of other topics...don't say you weren't warned in years to come when some opportunist spots a political opportunity and pushes back against toxic environment we find ourselves in...you have played a part!

punisher5112

If Europe and our government get their way with getting all the Irish women working then we will very soon be outnumbered by those coming in....

Look at db for example with their women only recruitment day....

If you look back 20 or 30 years ago the women could stay at home and raise a family... And I in no way mean never work but it's getting ridiculous now and many are chasing a career and then it's to late for kids....

From what I see non nationals and travellers are having huge families where Irish aren't ...

Harvey Weinstein

punisher5112 wrote: »

If Europe and our government get their way with getting all the Irish women working then we will very soon be outnumbered by those coming in....

Look at db for example with their women only recruitment day....

If you look back 20 or 30 years ago the women could stay at home and raise a family... And I in no way mean never work but it's getting ridiculous now and many are chasing a career and then it's to late for kids....

From what I see non nationals and travellers are having huge families where Irish aren't ...

Correct but someone will be along shortly to tell you that you're racist.

punisher5112

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Correct but someone will be along shortly to tell you that you're racist.

I am fully aware of that but this pure rubbish that is spouted that this isn't what's happening is laughable to be honest....

Why did our ancestors fight in 1916 for freedom to then have our beautiful country and its resources ruined....


Sad state to be honest.

Silentcorner

So in the next ten years we will see further pressure put on our health system, with an aging (and obese) population, we will continue to struggle to provide affordable accommodation for our young people, we will continue to invest huge sums of money in our Social Welfare system.

We have a rapidly declining birth rate, a pension time bomb (for people who have worked hard all their lives in the private sector), and the impact of automation coming soon, along with a serious economic recession predicted.

We have no ability to reflect the political views of a huge numbers of Irish people in media or our Oireachtas...can anyone really not see what is going to happen?

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

I am fully aware of that but this pure rubbish that is spouted that this isn't what's happening is laughable to be honest....

Why did our ancestors fight in 1916 for freedom to then have our beautiful country and its resources ruined....

Sad state to be honest.

On the money there. Best way to change that is by using your vote to boot the likes of Varuka out. I suggest viting for the National Party in the next election if they're not in your constituency then perhaps Anti Corruption Ireland or Irish Freedom Party but for the love of god not FF, FG, SF, Liebour or People before Puberty

punisher5112

It's actually astonishing to see how those that are so well educated can't actually see what is happening and the inevitable...

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's actually astonishing to see how those that are so well educated can't actually see what is happening and the inevitable...

Because they lack common sense. A degree means shag all when you don't have any

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think all sides are guilty of that, tbf.

I fully agree the current move to restrict the freedom of speech and to "deplatform" people you disagree with is a massive threat to the freedoms we all enjoy.

Hasn't happened, this is just peoples excuse when the likes of G O'D get themselves banned for breaking T&C's that they agreed to when signing up.

CrankyHaus

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Hasn't happened, this is just peoples excuse when the likes of G O'D get themselves banned for breaking T&C's that they agreed to when signing up.

It's a bit weird to see the left enthusiastically endorse corporations T&Cs as the arbiter of public debate.

Timberrrrrrrr

CrankyHaus wrote: »

It's a bit weird to see the left enthusiastically endorse corporations T&Cs as the arbiter of public debate.

And i find it hilarious when posters attempt to label me as "left".

Google is a private company and when you use thier platforms you agree to abide by the T&C's of those platforms. Do you think you should be able to post whatever you like here on boards after agreeing to thier T&C's?

If Gemma really wants to get her "message" out there she can easily start her own website and be free to post whatever she likes. Why do you think she doesn't do this? Could it be that she knows she wouldn't get the numbers? No revenue?

What do you think Google/Youtube should have done after her repeated breaking of thier rules?

CrankyHaus

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And i find it hilarious when posters attempt to label me as "left".

Google is a private company and when you use thier platforms you agree to abide by the T&C's of those platforms. Do you think you should be able to post whatever you like here on boards after agreeing to thier T&C's?

If Gemma really wants to get her "message" out there she can easily start her own website and be free to post whatever she likes. Why do you think she doesn't do this? Could it be that she knows she wouldn't get the numbers? No revenue?

What do you think Google/Youtube should have done after her repeated breaking of thier rules?

I don't really care about Gemma O'D. She's clearly lost it. I genuinely don't understand why you or anyone is still paying her so much attention.

I'm talking about the broader issue of public debate. Public debate has moved online. Basic norms on discussion are reasonable and desirable and need to be enforced for proper debate. However banning the expression of ideas according to the whim of a corporation is an ominous intrusion upon free speech. Corporate T&Cs should not be arbiter of public debate. These companies depend on the participation of their users for their success, the content of discussion is user generated, they owe a duty to respect free speech. That anyone, left, liberal or whatever, champions corporate censorship is a worry. Today it may be your ideological opponents being silenced, eventually it will be you.

EDIT: I think you need to look up the meaning of the word "hilarious". It either doesn't mean what you think it means or you're very easily amused.

Danzy

CrankyHaus wrote: »

It's a bit weird to see the left enthusiastically endorse corporations T&Cs as the arbiter of public debate.

Not really, once upon a time it was but for the last 20 years they are often on the same page as Corporate capital, sometimes for the same reason, other times for different, result is the same though.

That is across the Left spectrum.

Timberrrrrrrr

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I don't really care about Gemma O'D. She's clearly lost it. I genuinely don't understand why you or anyone is still paying her so much attention.

Because she's hilarious (theres that word again )

I'm talking about the broader issue of public debate. Public debate has moved online. Basic norms on discussion are reasonable and desirable and need to be enforced for proper debate. However banning the expression of ideas according to the whim of a corporation is an ominous intrusion upon free speech.Corporate T&Cs should not be arbiter of public debate. These companies depend on the participation of their users for their success, the content of discussion is user generated, they owe a duty to respect free speech. That anyone, left, liberal or whatever, champions corporate censorship is a worry. Today it may be your ideological opponents being silenced, eventually it will be you.

You're mixing up free speech with hate speech.

Should i be able to post here on boards that X black football player is a filthy Ni**er or panti Bliss is a filthy Fa**ot? I don't believe this by the way im just using 2 examples.

Under your definitions it would be my right to "free speech" to state these things yet i know boards would (rightly) slam the banhammer down hard if i did make those claims.

I would be breaking the T&C's that i agree to when i signed up to the site. Do you believe some people should be above the T&C's and have the right to constantly ignore them?

As stated already if Gemma or anyone else has issues with Google/Youtubes conditions then why don'tthey set up thier own website where they can post whatever the hell they like?

EDIT: I think you need to look up the meaning of the word "hilarious". It either doesn't mean what you think it means or you're very easily amused.

Throw in a silly little attack at the end for emphasis? Now that's HILARIOUS!!!!! :rolleyes:

InTheShadows

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's actually astonishing to see how those that are so well educated can't actually see what is happening and the inevitable...

Just because they have a college degree or did well in school it doesn't mean they are educated for the real world or life.

Kivaro

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Hasn't happened, this is just peoples excuse when the likes of G O'D get themselves banned for breaking T&C's that they agreed to when signing up.

Why are you trying to de-rail the thread by bring Gemma O' Doherty into the conversation?

Timberrrrrrrr

Kivaro wrote: »

Why are you trying to de-rail the thread by bring Gemma O' Doherty into the conversation?

I didn't

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think all sides are guilty of that, tbf.

I fully agree the current move to restrict the freedom of speech and to "deplatform" people you disagree with is a massive threat to the freedoms we all enjoy.

Or are you saying he wasn't talking about her?

Mr. teddywinkles

InTheShadows wrote: »

Just because they have a college degree or did well in school it doesn't mean they are educated for the real world or life.

If the country they left was capable of providing a degree in the first place. Well is it not a civilised place with no threat to run from. And from an economic standing should be a place of prosperity as well. Doesn't add up

James Brown

CrankyHaus wrote: »

It's a bit weird to see the left enthusiastically endorse corporations T&Cs as the arbiter of public debate.

It's hilarious to think some people believe 'the left' is a defined box anyone they disagree with on something fits into. Like Ghandi and Hilary Clinton are the same.

mvl

Stephen15 wrote: »

On the money there. Best way to change that is by using your vote to boot the likes of Varuka out. I suggest viting for the National Party in the next election if they're not in your constituency then perhaps Anti Corruption Ireland or Irish Freedom Party but for the love of god not FF, FG, SF, Liebour or People before Puberty

But just election time is late so often.

What else can be done to prevent them deciding on matters like this without public consultation ?

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

But you identified as a feminist...it makes you just as bad as the people on the extreme ends of left and right...you are all drinking koolaid, probably as a consequence of online/social media rabbit holes.

Feminism cannot be criticized, immigration cannot be criticized, along with a host of other topics...don't say you weren't warned in years to come when some opportunist spots a political opportunity and pushes back against toxic environment we find ourselves in...you have played a part!

Course they can be criticised.

Too many people in every debate these days refuse to engage in a dialogue, for fear they might actually learn something.

Kivaro

Curious to hear this morning about the 4 rescues at sea by NGO ships in the last 4 days in the Med, with one NGO ship now having 350 African migrants on board.
Did the announcement by Macron that there would be a "quick and automatic" resettlement of boat migrants to Ireland and other participant countries cause a new wave of Africans to attempt to get here via the NGO ships? Did Macron's resettlement plan just exasperate the situation in the Med?

You would also have to wonder that since Fine Gael did not announce to us the amount of migrants that Ireland will be taking, if the numbers are going to be indefinite and continuous i.e. as long as the NGO ships keeps supplying them to us in a quick and automatic manner?