F1 2019 - Round 11 Germany

vectra

chicorytip wrote: »

I wonder will they appeal this? That's a few handy points lost.

I think they have put in a notification of intention to appeal ( or whatever its called )
I doubt they will go through with it though.
I mean, that would take points off Lewis if they were successful :P .

I think it is shocking.
They got the biggest penalty for the least offence during the race.

Inquitus

vectra wrote: »

I think it is shocking.
They got the biggest penalty for the least offence during the race.

From the measurements the Alfa took 4 times as long to feed in the power at the start as the permissible limit, that sounds like cheating of a much higher magnitude to the rest, obviously more to still come out, but it seems a fair penalty from what we know at this point!

A better summary here.

skipper_G

Kimi had a whopper start up to P3 lest we forget, who's to say this didn't contribute to that. The other teams were compliant, sounds like Alfa dropped the ball and paid the price

vectra

Inquitus wrote: »

From the measurements the Alfa took 4 times as long to feed in the power at the start as the permissible limit, that sounds like cheating of a much higher magnitude to the rest, obviously more to still come out, but it seems a fair penalty from what we know at this point!

A better summary here.

Kimis was 4 times. Gio's was more.
BUT
My gripes is the way Lewis was past the pit entrance and cut across the grass to get into the pits.
That is a dangerous manoeuvre,
As far as I am aware, he should have continued around the lap and then come into the pits.
But no, he is lewis and can save 2 minutes by cheating as you call it.

Inquitus

vectra wrote: »

Kimis was 4 times. Gio's was more.
BUT
My gripes is the way Lewis was past the pit entrance and cut across the grass to get into the pits.
That is a dangerous manoeuvre,
As far as I am aware, he should have continued around the lap and then come into the pits.
But no, he is lewis and can save 2 minutes by cheating as you call it.

Aye but he would have spread carbon fibre shards all over the track completing a lap. Lets be honest if he gets 2 points from today's race the chances it makes any difference in the World Championships are highly negligible, him pulling into the pits was probably the "safest" option, like him or hate him.

d8491prj5boyvg

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Stroll led the race as we all know, the only Canadian since Villeneuve, was Luxembourg GP 1997 the last time he led a race?

Jerez? He led before the McLarens passed him

Cork Trucker

Sonny Lazy Flame wrote: »

Jerez? He led before the McLarens passed him

Aye he led until the last lap before pulling over in a widely believed agreement between Williams and McLaren. David Coulthard later admitted there was an agreement in place to give Hakkinen the first win as long as Villeneuve was guaranteed the title. Imagine how DC felt at the end of 1998.

I don't recall Villeneuve ever leading a race for B.A.R, definitely not in his 3 race stint for Renault in 2004 and BMW/Sauber in 05/06.

d8491prj5boyvg

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Max recovered, Vettel will also. Too early to say if LeClerc is going through a bad patch or this will be regular occurrences throughout his F1 career. I suspect the latter.

You say it's too early then make a call on it. I agree with the former, it's far too early, especially on a day when he shone and was unlucky. His mistake was lesser than that of Hamilton, Bottas, even verstappen when he spun.

Inquitus

Sonny Lazy Flame wrote: »

You say it's too early then make a call on it. I agree with the former, it's far too early, especially on a day when he shone and was unlucky. His mistake was lesser than that of Hamilton, Bottas, even verstappen when he spun.

I think LeClerc is performing well, and he will come together, I think Gasly in the Red Bull is the one at serious risk as far as the good seats in F1 go. LeClerc has the pace, he just needs a bit more maturity an some better luck both personally and from his team.

d8491prj5boyvg

antodeco wrote: »

Rewatching the race and it proves how detrimental the large run off areas are to F1. In this race, they get it wrong, 50:50 chance of ending the race. That's the wall all the tracks should be.

Great point! There needs to be the penalty for getting it wrong like what the ice rink provided today. Although hard to copy. A wall in the wet when going slow is very effective. Going fast in the dry, could be dangerous!

ctrl-alt-delete

antodeco wrote: »

Rewatching the race and it proves how detrimental the large run off areas are to F1. In this race, they get it wrong, 50:50 chance of ending the race. That's the wall all the tracks should be.

Great to see the gravel traps too!

flazio

Artificially dampening the run off areas, imagine what Circuit of The Americas would be like.

I'm in favour of skid pan run-offs.

Sonny noggs

Sonny Lazy Flame wrote: »

You say it's too early then make a call on it. I agree with the former, it's far too early, especially on a day when he shone and was unlucky. His mistake was lesser than that of Hamilton, Bottas, even verstappen when he spun.

He didn’t really shine, he pitted a few times to get on the right tyres and took advantage of them, he went off track at least 3 times that I recall.

I didn’t make a call - see where I said ‘suspect’- meaning ‘have an idea or impression of the existence, presence, or truth of (something) without certain proof.’ So we will see.

He has had 2 retirements both from his own errors, a few poor qualifying sessions, one led to him taking silly risks in the race. He is behind Vettel on points (was even before today), despite Vettel having what is regarded as a poor season so far and the car not suiting Vettel.

dublinman1990

Seeing the highlights tonight should have only made me wish to watch this live instead via C4. That race was so damn good. It had everything. The wet produced some wonderful outcomes for some of the drivers in the minor teams. Daniil Kvyat & Sebastian Vettel did so so well to gain a podium for their superb driving. Also congrats to Daniil for being a father last night. That is great news. There was a really good line coming from BBC News tonight in saying 'The race didn't exactly look like clockwork but it definitely looked orange'.

vectra

Inquitus wrote: »

Aye but he would have spread carbon fibre shards all over the track completing a lap.

Then his car should have been deemed in a dangerous condition and should have been parked up.

What he did is against the rules. " Like him or hate him" as you say.

Inquitus wrote: »

Lets be honest if he gets 2 points from today's race the chances it makes any difference in the World Championships are highly negligible, .

You would have been so wrong in 2007 had you made the same statement.
Each point is worth gold.


He was wrong in what he did and should have got a much bigger penalty.

errlloyd

vectra wrote: »

You would have been so wrong in 2007 had you made the same statement.
Each point is worth gold.


He was wrong in what he did and should have got a much bigger penalty.

So obviously three things here.

1: In 2007 points only went to 8th, not 10th. So actually in 2007 this would have made no difference.
2: In 2007 the gap between 1st and 2nd in a race was 2 points, today it is 7. So 2019 points are worth like 2/7ths of a point in 2007. If ham had got 2/7ths more he'd still have finished where he did.
3: In 2007 first got 2 points more than second and second got 2 points more than third. In 2019 its 7 and 3 respectively give a huge bias to winning races, which Kimi did much of. So if you want to arbitrarily apply today's standards to 2009 than Kimi would have won much more comfortably under today's rules.

I was called away unexpectedly an hour before race started.

I am so glad I hit the record button and didn’t settle for watching the highlights!

That was some race. More rain please, more slicks, intermediates and safety cars. Oh, and more pit lane comedy sketches but with Benny Hill theme tune playing at the same time.

Most memorable race of the season so far for me.

Harika

https://mobile.twitter.com/f1visualized/status/1155720817331900416

Sabre0001

First time in a long time that I sat down and watched the race - and that was because of Ferrari starting out of position, but mainly the rain. And it was justified. Was worried initially during the formation laps that we'd see a rolling start, but thankfully not. Great race; maybe the suggestion from a few years ago of sprinklers trackside wasn't such a bad idea!

vectra

errlloyd wrote: »

So obviously three things here.

1: In 2007 points only went to 8th, not 10th. So actually in 2007 this would have made no difference.
2: In 2007 the gap between 1st and 2nd in a race was 2 points, today it is 7. So 2019 points are worth like 2/7ths of a point in 2007. If ham had got 2/7ths more he'd still have finished where he did.
3: In 2007 first got 2 points more than second and second got 2 points more than third. In 2019 its 7 and 3 respectively give a huge bias to winning races, which Kimi did much of. So if you want to arbitrarily apply today's standards to 2009 than Kimi would have won much more comfortably under today's rules.

You missed my point. ( no pun intended )

Kimi was the least favorite to win that year.
It was
Lewis
Alonso
Kimi

Kimi won the WDC by one point.

When it was posted above that 2 points wont make much difference, that is absolute nonsense,
As I said. A season can be won or lost by one point.

H3llR4iser

Few considerations as things cooled down.

- Wet races, especially like yesterday with intermittent rain, never fail to generate interesting action; Yet, hopefully nobody brings back the idiotic idea of the sprinklers.

- Leclerc is only in his second season in F1; On a day which saw experienced, steady hands like Hulkenberg, Hamilton (+1 near miss), Bottas and Perez putting it in the wall, it's just not logical to be too hard on him. He will learn, just like Verstappen did.

- Max...great job, drove a race worthy of a driver 10 years older than he is. Very well deserved win.

- I just wish we saw less of the ultra-obnoxious-thought-f1-was-stupid-until-2016 Dutch "fans". I'm probably at the point were it's not Verstappen I really despise (his sim racing antics can be quite funny), it's his "fanbase" that I really can't stand; They're even more insufferable than the "only-watch-when-Ferrari-wins-Tifosi". I guess they bring in the money 'though.

- Stroll must be one of the most mysterious UFOs to ever appear in F1; He underperforms, fails to make it into Q2 for a million races in a row, get stomped on by Perez. Then the most difficult conditions appear, his team mate promptly generates an eye-watering repair bill and he nearly makes it to the podium. Sure, the team's strategy was excellent, but Lance kept it clean and smart; That's reminescent of his P2 in qualifying in Monza, on a wet track. If only he could deliver on a dry track.

- Kvyat...everyone talking about Albon, but good old Daniil is doing a mighty solid job in the Toro Rosso. I still think Red Bull let him go too early. In his first Red Bull season, he actually beat Ricciardo on points at the end of the season, the the team promptly sacked him at the first difficult patch to bring Verstappen in. If RB decided to oust Gasly, he should be taking the seat before Albon, but there are "rumors" claiming Marko simply doesn't like Kvyat.

- Say what you will, the rule about not moving more than once on the straights to impede an overtake needs to make a return in one form or the other; The Gasly/Albon incident is only the last in a series that will, sooner or later, cause a big one. All you need is a wheel on wheel contact for takeoff.

- Vettel's race...let's be honest here: if Max or Lewis did the same 20th to 2nd comeback, regardless of safety cars, retirements and pit stops, everyone would be screaming about "the drive of the season".

Inviere

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Vettel's race...let's be honest here: if Max or Lewis did the same 20th to 2nd comeback, regardless of safety cars, retirements and pit stops, everyone would be screaming about "the drive of the season".

It was a quality drive. Are there people saying otherwise?

Adamocovic

Inviere wrote: »

It was a quality drive. Are there people saying otherwise?

Think some just don't seem too impressed by it. Fair enough. I got the feeling Paul Di Resta wasn't overly bothered on Sky but may be due to the excitement elsewhere. The talk was again about last year too.

I think Seb summed it up perfectly saying it felt like he channeled DC in wet weather. Said he was one of the best but didn't do anything flashy or superb, just quietly worked away and then to people's surprise was on them.

Thought it summed it up well. Just a solid cool and calm drive while others lost their heads around him. No doubt wonderful for his confidence. After all the accusations of him making mistakes and he keeps his calm and drives excellent in bad conditions. I know many saying he had no pressure but definitely was some pressure on him to get points.

Either way. A very good drive, one that you would hope will kick him on mentality wise.

errlloyd

Inviere wrote: »

It was a quality drive. Are there people saying otherwise?

I think I posted earlier in this thread that halfway through the race I was like "wtf Seb do something". When he was sort of between 8th and 10th and didn't seem all that aggressive. In the end though Sebs drive is all the more impressive because he didn't actually take any ballsy risks or anything to win. He kept his nose very clean and waited for his chance then turned it on.

chicorytip

Adamocovic wrote:

Think some just don't seem too impressed by it. Fair enough. I got the feeling Paul Di Resta wasn't overly bothered on Sky but may be due to the excitement elsewhere. The talk was again about last year too.

Adamocovic wrote:

Thought it summed it up well. Just a solid cool and calm drive while others lost their heads around him. No doubt wonderful for his confidence. After all the accusations of him making mistakes and he keeps his calm and drives excellent in bad conditions. I know many saying he had no pressure but definitely was some pressure on him to get points.

He had the fastest car in Hockenheim after all. The ease with which he progressed up the field is as much a demonstration of the lack of competitiveness of the "midfield" runners as of his own ability. I would say it was a slightly better result than you would expect. Can he still do it against Max and Lewis consistently enough to win a title? I really don't know.

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

Kimis was 4 times. Gio's was more.
BUT
My gripes is the way Lewis was past the pit entrance and cut across the grass to get into the pits.
That is a dangerous manoeuvre,
As far as I am aware, he should have continued around the lap and then come into the pits.
But no, he is lewis and can save 2 minutes by cheating as you call it.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/racefansdotnet/status/1155875193757282304

skipper_G

Watched the onboard of the Gasly Albon incident again, Gasly was just far too close before he made the move. No matter what he was going to hit the back of Albon's car

vectra

chicorytip wrote: »

He had the fastest car in Hockenheim after all. The ease with which he progressed up the field is as much a demonstration of the lack of competitiveness of the "midfield" runners as of his own ability. I would say it was a slightly better result than you would expect. Can he still do it against Max and Lewis consistently enough to win a title? I really don't know.

And then any time Lewis did the same it was a sensational drive.
Only for bad luck since Germany last year, Vettel would be well up there with Hamilton.
I still believe Vettel is the better of the two. Lewis was just lucky to land a seat in the Merc at the right time.