British version of Trump becomes PM

blinding

8-10 wrote: »

Given your capitalisation I can only assume this Democracy is somebody's name?

Democracy is Just Great and Must Be Celebrated .

Do not play fast and loose with Democracy . Honour it and Respect Peoples Democratic Decision .

dudara

blinding wrote: »

Their Democracy is way more important than the Eu .

As time goes by other Countries will also see that their Democracy is way more important than the Eu .

Democracy Rocks Baby . Just look at Hong Kong and Russia . Don’t take the chance of playing fast and loose with Democracy .

@blinding - please don't post in this thread again. I gave you warning to stop parroting on about democracy, and instead to actually contribute to the debate. However, you insist on repeating the same old mantras.

dudara

Twenty Grand

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No the democratic thing to do would be to respect the clear decision of the people:

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

* Remain a member of the European Union
* Leave the European Union

Get over it, the Brits are leaving in October.

Brexit is like asking a dentist to remove your tooth, then getting smashed in the face with a hammer until the tooth falls out.

Sure the result is the same, but the process leaves you far worse off than you expected.

blinding

dudara wrote: »

@blinding - please don't post in this thread again. I gave you warning to stop parroting on about democracy, and instead to actually contribute to the debate. However, you insist on repeating the same old mantras.

dudara

When did you give me a warning about Democracy ?

Your Bias is Obvious .

NKante

Boris seems like a genuinely good chap. He's categorically ruled out a hard border.

I actually emailed him many years ago. Like 15+ years ago. He replied with a proper answer. I was chuffed.

Kidchameleon

Twenty Grand wrote: »

And here's a list of the promises that were made to the electorate.
https://infacts.org/cut-keep-list-top-19-brexiteer-promises/

Is there one that hasn't been broken?

They haven't left yet how can we possibly know the answer to that? When they do leave and Britain likely prospers, I could show you a list of all the scaremongering the remain side spouted and it would all look like lies.

8-10

Kidchameleon wrote: »

They haven't left yet how can we possibly know the answer to that? When they do leave and Britain likely prospers, I could show you a list of all the scaremongering the remain side spouted and it would all look like lies.

We know the NHS have missed out on 6 months worth of extra payments to the amount of £350m per week due to the UK not meeting the withdrawal timeframe of Article 50

Is that going to be backdated?

Twenty Grand

Kidchameleon wrote: »

They haven't left yet how can we possibly know the answer to that? When they do leave and Britain likely prospers, I could show you a list of all the scaremongering the remain side spouted and it would all look like lies.

All of the points were relating to after they vote Leave, not when they've left.

For sure 1, 3, 5, 6, 9, 11, 12, 14 17, 18 and 19 are most definitely wrong

8-10 wrote: »

We know the NHS have missed out on 6 months worth of extra payments to the amount of £350m per week due to the UK not meeting the withdrawal timeframe of Article 50

Is that going to be backdated?

Not a hope the NHS is getting that "ringfenced" money.
We know for sure the EU subsidies that British farmers have enjoyed will not be replaced in their entirety.
EU funding for many university and scientific projects has also been frozen.
Have a Treaty before 2020? not a chance, unless BJ is willing to kill his political career like May.

dudara

@blinding - yellow card for breaching thread ban and questioning mod instruction.

dudara

Kidchameleon

8-10 wrote: »

We know the NHS have missed out on 6 months worth of extra payments to the amount of £350m per week due to the UK not meeting the withdrawal timeframe of Article 50

Is that going to be backdated?

Whats that got to do with the question that was put to the people? They should have left with no deal in March and this would not have happened. Thank the weak Teresa May for that. Anyway, 350 million is nothing compared to what they will save on EU membership fee's.

Twenty Grand

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Whats that got to do with the question that was put to the people? They should have left with no deal in March and this would not have happened. Thank the weak Teresa May for that. Anyway, 350 million is nothing compared to what they will save on EU membership fee's.

People voted for Brexit.

They DID NOT vote for a no deal .

They were told they would get a deal and it would be on the UK's terms as "they need us more than we need them" lol.

Also, how much will the UK save now it has to pay CAP, CFP, ERC and all the other EU programs?
F*cking Cornwall has gotten more than €350 million in EU funding!

NKante

Twenty Grand wrote: »

People voted for Brexit.

They DID NOT vote for a no deal .

They were told they would get a deal and it would be on the UK's terms as "they need us more than we need them" lol.

That's actually false mate. David Cameron gave a speech warning all the Brits that voting out would mean out of the single market, out of customs union, out of freedom of movement.

This was actually highlighted by politicians trying to scare Brits into voting to stay.

They knew what they voted on.

Donald Trump

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No need for a second vote (typical EU anti democratic attitude*). They were asked if they wanted to leave the EU or remain. They chose to leave. It couldnt have been any clearer.

*I think this is the reason for many people wanting to leave. The second Lisbon vote turned me against the EU.

Seems fairly democratic to me.


Irish people said "No, we don't like this". Irish officials went back to the EU and said "These are some of the reasons people voted against it". EU said "oh, ok, well here are a few tweaks and reassurances". Irish people then took a look and said "grand - enough of us are happy with it now - we'll give it a yes".

Donald Trump

NKante wrote: »

That's actually false mate. David Cameron gave a speech warning all the Brits that voting out would mean out of the single market, out of customs union, out of freedom of movement.

This was actually highlighted by politicians trying to scare Brits into voting to stay.

They knew what they voted on.

Such warnings were labelled "Project Fear"......You may have forgotten or overlooked that point.

NKante

Donald Trump wrote: »

Such warnings were labelled "Project Fear"......You may have forgotten or overlooked that point.

And we've been proven right, given that by now the apocalypse was predicted.

Yet the Brit economy is doing well, and the EU is stagnant looking for stimulus packages.

The EU is going to fail. It's inevitable. The ideologues will keep pumping money into it and try to breathe life into it, but it's dying.

That's one of the reasons why the EU are terrified that the UK will make a success of it. It will give other countries ideas of leaving too.

Donald Trump

NKante wrote: »

And we've been proven right, given that by now the apocalypse was predicted.

Yet the Brit economy is doing well, and the EU is stagnant looking for stimulus packages.

The EU is going to fail. It's inevitable. The ideologues will keep pumping money into it and try to breathe life into it, but it's dying.

That's one of the reasons why the EU are terrified that the UK will make a success of it. It will give other countries ideas of leaving too.

Ya wha'?


Cameron warned that leaving EU meant leaving customs union, single market etc. His statement was labelled as "Project Fear" and that it was not true. So you now think that UK won't or can't, by default, leave the single market or customs union when Brexit occurs?


Edit:

Go to 5:08 and again at 5:55

steddyeddy

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ya wha'?


Cameron warned that leaving EU meant leaving customs union, single market etc. His statement was labelled as "Project Fear" and that it was not true. So you now think that UK won't or can't, by default, leave the single market or customs union when Brexit occurs?


Edit:

Go to 5:08 and again at 5:55

Exactly. Leaving the single market was always described as project fear.

Professor Moriarty

NKante wrote: »

And we've been proven right, given that by now the apocalypse was predicted.

Yet the Brit economy is doing well, and the EU is stagnant looking for stimulus packages.

The EU is going to fail. It's inevitable. The ideologues will keep pumping money into it and try to breathe life into it, but it's dying.

That's one of the reasons why the EU are terrified that the UK will make a success of it. It will give other countries ideas of leaving too.

The EU aren't terrified. Brexit won't be a success.

NKante

So is the case you're making that some untruths were said? well that was obviously happening on both sides.


If we use that metric to scrap democratic votes, then no general election result would be valid because every political party lies in their manifesto.



Ooh, got you bang to rights with that one :cool:

NKante

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The EU aren't terrified. Brexit won't be a success.

Britain was the 4th largest economy before the EU and before the common market.

During the UK's time in the EU, it has floated around 5th to 7th.

I think the Brits will be just fine.

After all, how do most countries in the world who aren't in the EU, manage to survive without the precious EU?

Absolutely ruining you guys in here :cool:

steddyeddy

NKante wrote: »

So is the case you're making that some untruths were said? well that was obviously happening on both sides.


If we use that metric to scrap democratic votes, then no general election result would be valid because every political party lies in their manifesto.



Ooh, got you bang to rights with that one :cool:

No the case being made is that contrary to your point, the public in the UK didn't know what they were voting for.

Twenty Grand

NKante wrote: »

Britain was the 4th largest economy before the EU and before the common market.

During the UK's time in the EU, it has floated around 5th to 7th.

I think the Brits will be just fine.

After all, how do most countries in the world who aren't in the EU, manage to survive without the precious EU?

Absolutely ruining you guys in here :cool:

All factors point to UK hitting a recession post Brexit.

All other countries survive by doing the vast majority of their trading with their closest neighbours.

The UK is the fifth biggest economy I believe, though that's inflated through it's financial dealings and passporting, similar to how ours is the MNCs.

If they lose this post Brexit they won't make the top 10.

NKante

Twenty Grand wrote: »

All factors point to UK hitting a recession post Brexit.

All other countries survive by doing the vast majority of their trading with their closest neighbours.

Britain was supposed to be in a deep recession straight after the Brexit vote. That's what was promised by remainers. They even said an emergency budget would be needed.

All that's happened is the economy out performed the EU LOL

Donald Trump

NKante wrote: »

So is the case you're making that some untruths were said? well that was obviously happening on both sides.


If we use that metric to scrap democratic votes, then no general election result would be valid because every political party lies in their manifesto.



Ooh, got you bang to rights with that one :cool:

No dude. I'll break it down into steps.


1) Some poster said something to the effect that many people voted for Brexit but did not vote for X/Y/Z
2) You said something to the effect that "It was clear at the time that leaving the EU meant leaving single market and that was pointed out by Cameron"
3) I said something to the effect that Cameron may have said that but others labelled it as not true (thereby sowing confusion).
4) You said those who labelled Cameron's words as not true have been proven right
5) I posted video of Hannon saying leaving EU did not mean leaving single market.


I'm not debating whether politicians tell the truth. I'm simply pointing out that if you think it was clear to everyone that Brexit meant leaving the single union, then at least one person - Mr. Hannon - was not aware.

Twenty Grand

NKante wrote: »

Britain was supposed to be in a deep recession straight after the Brexit vote. That's what was promised by remainers. They even said an emergency budget would be needed.

All that's happened is the economy out performed the EU LOL

Roll on Oct. 31st and we'll see what happens.

Donald Trump

NKante wrote: »

Britain was the 4th largest economy before the EU and before the common market.

During the UK's time in the EU, it has floated around 5th to 7th.

I think the Brits will be just fine.

After all, how do most countries in the world who aren't in the EU, manage to survive without the precious EU?

Absolutely ruining you guys in here :cool:

In your own head dude. Whatever makes you happy. Ignorance is bliss as they say

NKante

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Roll on Oct. 31st and we'll see what happens.

I know the Irish on the whole have a positive view of the EU. That's great. It might be working out for you.

It wasn't good for the UK.

I mean just the idea of a European superstate making laws that you have no control over and which are outside your parliament, is a red line for me.

There are 1000 other reasons, but for me that was #1. Totally incompatible with democracy and sovereignty.

I'm sure there will be some bumps from Brexit, but the Brits are an ancient country with a big tradition. The EU is just a small blip in the British history. It will fade into obscurity.


As I said, it's inevitable that the EU will fail in my opinion. They will try and keep it alive as long as possible, but it's doomed.

Atlantic Dawn

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Roll on Oct. 31st and we'll see what happens.

Bonfires up north on the night will be interesting as to the content on the Nationalist and Unionist sides.

Professor Moriarty

NKante wrote: »

Britain was the 4th largest economy before the EU and before the common market.

During the UK's time in the EU, it has floated around 5th to 7th.

I think the Brits will be just fine.

After all, how do most countries in the world who aren't in the EU, manage to survive without the precious EU?

Absolutely ruining you guys in here :cool:

The FT are predicting a probable recession in Britain in the next few months. And that's before they leave. Here's an interesting fact that illustrates how bad crashing out will be. On November 1st, Britain will be the only country in the world that will be trading on WTO terms. If you have a brain, you will understand how terrifying that scenario is. If you don't have a brain, you'll just continue recycling one-liners you read on Twitter.

Melanchthon

Twenty Grand wrote: »

All factors point to UK hitting a recession post Brexit.

All other countries survive by doing the vast majority of their trading with their closest neighbours.

There is a serious risk of recession after Brexit for the UK but don't pretend that things are looking particularly rosy for some of the main Eurozone economies in the same timeline.

Germany
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-11/germany-gets-a-recession-warning-as-investor-confidence-plunges

Italy
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48884517

Thats the 1st and 3rd largest economies in the Eurozone and France is highly exposed to any Italian recession.

Basically Brexit could definitely trigger a UK recession however its strange how those that are apparently have the most knowledge about EU keep omitting the fact that there is a serious risk of Eurozone recession in 2020 as well thats mostly separate to Brexit.

Twenty Grand

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Bonfires up north on the night will be interesting as to the content on the Nationalist and Unionist sides.

Funny how Brexit day was meant to be April fool's and now it's Halloween.

pjohnson

Why are you named after a black European footballer Mr. Kante? Thats not very Brexity now is it?

#ruinedyou

Atlantic Dawn

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Funny how Brexit day was meant to be April fool's and now it's Halloween.

The fireworks places will have one last go on the money before shutdown :D

NKante

pjohnson wrote: »

Why are you named after a black European footballer Mr. Kante? Thats not very Brexity now is it?

#ruinedyou

Now now mate. You wouldn't be calling most Brits racist, would you? seems out of order.

Corbyn always wanted out of the EU and he's not a ra....

Ah well, nevermind.

Melanchthon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The FT are predicting a probable recession in Britain in the next few months. And that's before they leave.

I'm curious if I will get an answer to this, but to those that think that the UK entering recession will be a sign that the UK population made a catastrophic mistake and were led by idiots.

What does a predicted recession in the largest economy in the Eurozone say, what does the 3rd largest economy having already entered recession for a period in the last year say.

I'm no Brexiteer but this attitude of europhiles not knowing the european economic outlook is just bizare

Kidchameleon

Twenty Grand wrote: »

People voted for Brexit.

They DID NOT vote for a no deal .

They were told they would get a deal and it would be on the UK's terms as "they need us more than we need them" lol.

Also, how much will the UK save now it has to pay CAP, CFP, ERC and all the other EU programs?
F*cking Cornwall has gotten more than €350 million in EU funding!

I posted the ballot question a few pages back. They voted to either stay in the EU or leave. Nothing more, nothing less. The campaigning by both sides in the run up to the referendum is not relevant.

Enter name here

The UK will go on to prosper and encourage other member states to leave the EU also.

And Germany after 2 failed wars and 1 failed attempt at economically controlling Europe will have to go back to the drawing board to start planning the way the can conquer Europe again.

Professor Moriarty

Melanchthon wrote: »

I'm curious if I will get an answer to this, but to those that think that the UK entering recession will be a sign that the UK population made a catastrophic mistake and were led by idiots.

What does a predicted recession in the largest economy in the Eurozone say, what does the 3rd largest economy having already entered recession for a period in the last year say.

I'm no Brexiteer but this attitude of europhiles not knowing the european economic outlook is just bizare

Economies across the EU are slowing. But only one economy is thinking of crashing out of the world's largest trading bloc.

Enter name here

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Economies across the EU are slowing. But only one economy is thinking of crashing out of the world's largest trading bloc.

If you think none of the other 27 member states are not already making plans on leaving or discussing the option you would have to have your head stuck in the ground.

The EU is all but over, the looming economic crash of the EU is only a matter of time. The sooner the better, then countries will have to right to govern and their sovereignty back from the Germans.

The failed German experiment to rule Europe has failed. Time for Ireland to look elsewhere for its next bailout.

Twenty Grand

Sure sure sure...

Everyone is seeing how much of a disaster Brexit is, despite Britain being an economic powerhouse.
Not a hope of another country leaving, especially not the weaker ones.

Enter name here

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Sure sure sure...

Everyone is seeing how much of a disaster Brexit is, despite Britain being an economic powerhouse.
Not a hope of another country leaving, especially not the weaker ones.

Actually not Britain is doing the world politicians a favour and showing the world what happens when you refuse the will of the majority. Lets see how many of the remoaners retain their seats at the next GE.
Politicians will be so scared of having their own countries governed by the equivalent of Boris that they will be asking the public on there choices to stay in the EU or leave. My best guess Italy will be the next to go after the UK.

Professor Moriarty

Enter name here wrote: »

If you think none of the other 27 member states are not already making plans on leaving or discussing the option you would have to have your head stuck in the ground.

The EU is all but over, the looming economic crash of the EU is only a matter of time. The sooner the better, then countries will have to right to govern and their sovereignty back from the Germans.

The failed German experiment to rule Europe has failed. Time for Ireland to look elsewhere for its next bailout.

Which countries are planning to leave?

Professor Moriarty

Enter name here wrote: »

Actually not Britain is doing the world politicians a favour and showing the world what happens when you refuse the will of the majority. Lets see how many of the remoaners retain their seats at the next GE.
Politicians will be so scared of having their own countries governed by the equivalent of Boris that they will be asking the public on there choices to stay in the EU or leave. My best guess Italy will be the next to go after the UK.

No. Support for the EU increased in the 12 months to April 2019. 72% would vote remain in a referendum.

Enter name here

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Which countries are planning to leave?

All Markets
Bet until : 31 Dec -23:59 UK
My Markets (0) All Markets (1)
Order by:
Next Country To Leave EU
Selection Odds
2/1
Italy
4/1
Greece
5/1
Czech Republic
5/1
Poland
10/1
Sweden
12/1
France
12/1
Hungary
16/1
Ireland
18/1
Denmark
20/1
Cyprus
20/1
Romania
28/1
Netherlands
33/1
Finland
40/1
Austria
50/1
Germany
50/1
Latvia
66/1
Bulgaria
66/1
Portugal
66/1
Spain
80/1
Belgium
80/1
Croatia
80/1
Estonia
80/1
Lithuania
80/1
Malta
80/1
Slovakia
80/1
Slovenia
150/1
Luxembourg

Melanchthon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Economies across the EU are slowing. But only one economy is thinking of crashing out of the world's largest trading bloc.

What does it say about the direction and leadership though. If the UK entering recession is a sign of stupid politicians and a misguided electorate, the biggest economy in the Eurozone and the 3rd biggest possibly entering recession means what?

Keep in mind too that the eurozone took longer than other areas to recover with it only kicking in about 6 years ago in 2013, America pulled out much faster so a slowdown is to be expected, 6 years though is too short a time for that to be the case for the eurozone.

Professor Moriarty

Enter name here wrote: »

All Markets
Bet until : 31 Dec -23:59 UK
My Markets (0) All Markets (1)
Order by:
Next Country To Leave EU
Selection Odds
2/1
Italy
4/1
Greece
5/1
Czech Republic
5/1
Poland
10/1
Sweden
12/1
France
12/1
Hungary
16/1
Ireland
18/1
Denmark
20/1
Cyprus
20/1
Romania
28/1
Netherlands
33/1
Finland
40/1
Austria
50/1
Germany
50/1
Latvia
66/1
Bulgaria
66/1
Portugal
66/1
Spain
80/1
Belgium
80/1
Croatia
80/1
Estonia
80/1
Lithuania
80/1
Malta
80/1
Slovakia
80/1
Slovenia
150/1
Luxembourg

Ah. Bookies' odds. The best evidence. Just an idle thought. Did you find any bookmaker odds on a country other than Britain leaving the EU by December 31st?

Enter name here

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Which countries are planning to leave?

1 - Greece

Unsurprisingly, given its well-documented Euro woes, Greece tops the list of countries likely to be next to quit the EU.

Greece has already contemplated leaving the European single currency, back in 2015, when a summer of dissent resulted in bank closures and economic downturn.

The official position is that there’s no leaving the Euro without leaving the EU.

However that may not bother most Greeks, as 71 per cent said they had an unfavourable view of the EU in the Pew Research poll.

2 - Italy

A total of 59 per cent of Italians have a positive view of the EU, while 39 per cent see it in a negative light.

That might seem pretty Europhile, but the growth of the country’s Five Star Movement (MS5) would suggest there are some deeper issues.

Polls suggest MS5 could become the largest party in the next election - dramatically raising the odds of ‘Quitaly’.

I could go on but that will atleast give you something to research.

Professor Moriarty

Melanchthon wrote: »

What does it say about the direction and leadership though. If the UK entering recession is a sign of stupid politicians and a misguided electorate, the biggest economy in the Eurozone and the 3rd biggest possibly entering recession means what?

Keep in mind too that the eurozone took longer than other areas to recover with it only kicking in about 6 years ago in 2013, America pulled out much faster so a slowdown is to be expected, 6 years though is too short a time for that to be the case for the eurozone.

The global economy is also taking a hit. The EU slowdown is part of that hit.

Professor Moriarty

Enter name here wrote: »

1 - Greece

Unsurprisingly, given its well-documented Euro woes, Greece tops the list of countries likely to be next to quit the EU.

Greece has already contemplated leaving the European single currency, back in 2015, when a summer of dissent resulted in bank closures and economic downturn.

The official position is that there’s no leaving the Euro without leaving the EU.

However that may not bother most Greeks, as 71 per cent said they had an unfavourable view of the EU in the Pew Research poll.

2 - Italy

A total of 59 per cent of Italians have a positive view of the EU, while 39 per cent see it in a negative light.

That might seem pretty Europhile, but the growth of the country’s Five Star Movement (MS5) would suggest there are some deeper issues.

Polls suggest MS5 could become the largest party in the next election - dramatically raising the odds of ‘Quitaly’.

I could go on but that will atleast give you something to research.

Could you link to those polls?

Melanchthon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

No. Support for the EU increased in the 12 months to April 2019. 72% would vote remain in a referendum.

Why are you framing it to April 2019, there was a poll published today in the Sunday Independent that showed support was down.

I don't think Irexit will happen or should happen myself btw but why choose that timeline?