Creches exposed again

starbaby2003

Crèches exposed AGAIN and reading the article it sounds just as bloody grim.

https://evoke.ie/2019/07/19/news/investigation-into-dublin-creche

starbaby2003

Mods - can you please edit the title.

neris

dont let 1 creche tar your view of all creches. The govt have a lot of responsibility going back years when it comes to early years centres being private businesses

starbaby2003

I am not, however I find it disheartening that it appears, yet again, that it was relatively easy to find a crèche that does do this. On top of this, the government checks clearly don’t work. The woman who runs this chain lost a child in 2005.

shesty

It's the Irish solution....allow the private/voluntary sector to fill the holes that the Government is unwilling/unable to provide in it's services.It happens across the health sector too.Super voluntary bodies out there, but why aren't the Government providing full services across the board??Why aren't the services being added over time?Money is one excuse, but really it's a problem that pre-dates money issues (not the creche one, but same principle).

neris

shesty wrote: »

It's the Irish solution....allow the private/voluntary sector to fill the holes that the Government is unwilling/unable to provide in it's services.It happens across the health sector too.Super voluntary bodies out there, but why aren't the Government providing full services across the board??Why aren't the services being added over time?Money is one excuse, but really it's a problem that pre-dates money issues (not the creche one, but same principle).

The Govt never wanted to know about childcare or early years going back decades so the private sector had to step in and provide the service so what you now have is private business providing what is basically a social service equivalent to the school system in a way. The Govt want providers to provide childcare at the cheapest possible cost to parents while carrying the overheads, financial burdens and excessive regulation of a business.

starbaby2003

You can’t blame the government because minders are screaming obscenities at children! I know that the system is broken low pay for workers, high cost for parents but it’s like a lot of other industries. It is too easy to blame someone else. The manager and owner should have been doing due diligence. There were systematic failures in this crèche. None were addressed. If the ad is anything to go by, she was literally in it for the money. People like that do a disservice to all people in the industry, owners, workers and users.

starbaby2003

You can’t blame the government because minders are screaming obscenities at children! I know that the system is broken low pay for workers, high cost for parents but it’s like a lot of other industries. It is too easy to blame someone else. The manager and owner should have been doing due diligence. There were systematic failures in this crèche. None were addressed. If the ad is anything to go by, she was literally in it for the money. People like that do a disservice to all people in the industry, owners, workers and users.

Hannibal_Smith

What!?! It already aired? I thought it was on tonight?

starbaby2003

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

What!?! It already aired? I thought it was on tonight?

Yes tonight. There is an ad out for it though. I’m not sure, I can watch the whole thing given how grim the ad for it is.

Hannibal_Smith

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Yes tonight. There is an ad out for it though. I’m not sure, I can watch the whole thing given how grim the ad for it is.

Phew! Only ad I saw was where professionals were talking as they watched clips of children crying.

After the last one, I'm very interested in seeing this one.

Electric Nitwit

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-creche-owner-to-step-down-after-rte-investigation-939034.html

A crèche owner in Dublin is expected to step down following a documentary which will air tonight.

One of the owners of the Hyde & Seek Childcare crèche chain is to step down and take no future role in front line childcare provision as a result of findings to be revealed in an RTÉ Investigates documentary...

starbaby2003

Electric Nitwit wrote: »

One of the owners of the Hyde & Seek Childcare crèche chain is to step down and take no future role in front line childcare provision as a result of findings to be revealed in an RTÉ Investigates documentary...

You wonder if she should have been allowed run it in the first place !

awec

shesty wrote: »

It's the Irish solution....allow the private/voluntary sector to fill the holes that the Government is unwilling/unable to provide in it's services.It happens across the health sector too.Super voluntary bodies out there, but why aren't the Government providing full services across the board??Why aren't the services being added over time?Money is one excuse, but really it's a problem that pre-dates money issues (not the creche one, but same principle).

What's this got to do with private vs public?

Government provided childcare would not be immune from poor practices or being unfit for purpose.

My daughter was in this creche from the age of 2 up until a year ago.

She never really had any complaints and seemed to be happy enough there.

Thank god she is still not there now. It's going to be tough viewing.

A friend of mine also had his kids there and he was told by his daughter that they had two children in the front passenger seat when being picked up from school because the car was full. They denied it when he confronted them, but he took his kids out anyway.

Fully justified now.

starbaby2003

Deleted User wrote: »

My daughter was in this creche from the age of 2 up until a year ago.

She never really had any complaints and seemed to be happy enough there.

Thank god she is still not there now. It's going to be tough viewing.

A friend of mine also had his kids there and he was told by his daughter that they had two children in the front passenger seat when being picked up from school because the car was full. They denied it when he confronted them, but he took his kids out anyway.

Fully justified now.

Scary. My kids are in crèche. These shows make me feeling appalling for choosing to go out to work. Like many though, we need two wages.

starbaby2003

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Scary. My kids are in crèche. These shows make me feeling appalling for choosing to go out to work. Like many though, we need two wages.

I know I am going to feel so guilty tonight watching it.

My daughter is 8 now though and I have gently prodded to see if there were any stories about creche when she was there.

The only things I got were:

"Sometimes the food wasn't as nice as yours"
"Sometimes one of the kids was mean"

Hopefully for other parents, this may have been more common than the bad stuff (not in any way excusing the bad stuff)

starbaby2003

****ing Instant Ramen noodles. That family need to be investigated. That is child endangerment.

drunkmonkey

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Scary. My kids are in crèche. These shows make me feeling appalling for choosing to go out to work. Like many though, we need two wages.

Ah it's s bit sensationalist, don't feel too guilty. Don't be afraid to walk around and check the place out yourself. I've 3 kids in and could randomly arrive any time. Way better crèche than some of these though, my kids are very happy and the staff are amazing. None could afford to go work in a Dublin crèche though completely different cost or living.

super_furry

Watching this in a mix of rage and amazement. Honestly if my child was in there I could do something I'd regret after seeing this.

Always Tired

What child doesn't like Ramen noodles? Might as well prepare them for their future in this country where they'll be lucky to have ramen after they pay the extortionate rents.

Hannibal_Smith

super_furry wrote: »

Watching this in a mix of rage and amazement. Honestly if my child was in there I could do something I'd regret after seeing this.

I'm the same here. My blood is boiling watching it. I wonder did the owner have any child care experience before opening the creche or did they see it as a money making racket?

super_furry

https://twitter.com/daithiocleirigh/status/1154137460550639621?s=19

the dark phantom

Complete bullies just plain rotten people.

drunkmonkey

She's got a drink or drug problem you can see it in her face, a proper bag of cats.

drunkmonkey

They obviously never seen the blanket trick for getting a baby to sleep...2 minutes boom there gone.

Limpy

How can any creche put 10 kids asleep when one or 2 are crying. Tough job I'd say.

GreeBo

super_furry wrote: »

https://twitter.com/daithiocleirigh/status/1154137460550639621?s=19

I was going to post to say you can't base anything on crying children as kids cry... but leaving a kid behind in a playground?
**** me.

nthclare

I know of some women who want to do child care and I wouldn't leave them with a cactus for 8 hour's.

Oddly enough a lot of misfits seem to be attracted to the child care career choice.

Not undermining the mother hen types of child carers who are in it for the love and compassion for kid's, I know there's good child carers and luckily my son had one she was a lovely old dear.

Sardonicat

drunkmonkey wrote: »

She's got a drink or drug problem you can see it in her face, a proper bag of cats.

Yeah, thought she looked at bit ropey alright.

whiskeyman

Sardonicat wrote: »

Yeah, thought she looked at bit ropey alright.

Making hundreds of thousands profit yet still does the day to day job and looks stressed for it.
I only presume she loves the power from it.
Must have some kind of issues and wants to exact revenge on poor innocent children.
She could easily hire someone to do the management role. Seems more than just money for me.

That said, it's Tulsa / the government we need to question. There is no law here. A 'warning letter' was sent.
Says it all.

Abba987

whiskeyman wrote: »

Making hundreds of thousands profit yet still does the day to day job and looks stressed for it.
I only presume she loves the power from it.
Must have some kind of issues and wants to exact revenge on poor innocent children.
She could easily hire someone to do the management role. Seems more than just money for me.

That said, it's Tulsa / the government we need to question. There is no law here. A 'warning letter' was sent.
Says it all.

What does that even mean? A bar would lose a licence quicker for opening late than a creche abusing children

afkasurfjunkie

Exactly. Every month I read about restaurant closures on the journal. They get shut down on the spot if they flout certain regulations. People see a name on the list and immediately say, woah, never eating there again. Why dont crèches get shut down on the spot?

pwurple

Am I reading this right... is this the exact same woman running another creche which was exposed for this kind of issue before, and got shut down? And she has another creche being registered at the moment? What a brass neck! There must be no mechanism from stopping people getting a creche license , is there?


The poor kids and parents clearly duped by her.

My god, when I think about the lovely creche my kids went to, loads of room, absolute dotes of women minding them. They still ask to go back for stories or to see their minders, or to get the "best shepards pie in the world", and love it when we stop to say hi on the way past.


And this wagon runs them like a soviet orphanage, charging through the nose no doubt as well. Awful.

starbaby2003

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/creche-chain-exposed-in-rt-investigates-crying-children-mistreated-and-left-at-risk-38344447.html

Complete sociopath

“She accepts she did not handle this period well, but would point out that several comments she made on film were in fact directed at your programme’s researcher, in frustration at what she saw as a failure to carry out basic duties.

Theboinkmaster

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

Exactly. Every month I read about restaurant closures on the journal. They get shut down on the spot if they flout certain regulations. People see a name on the list and immediately say, woah, never eating there again. Why dont cres get shut down on the spot?

Exactly - government and Tulsa have a lot to explain:

Back in 2004 company owner Anne Davy was prosecuted and convicted when staff from their Tolka Road branch left behind a three-year-old boy on his own at a local playground, she was also convicted for a number of other regulatory breaches of regulations.

Three years later in 2007 she was convicted again for breaching regulations including child to adult ratios and failing to keep records. During these years the company changed name three times.

How the absolute fvck was she allowed operate a cre WTF.

Beechwoodspark

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

Exactly. Every month I read about restaurant closures on the journal. They get shut down on the spot if they flout certain regulations. People see a name on the list and immediately say, woah, never eating there again. Why dont crèches get shut down on the spot?

Very very true.

The restaurant lists receive wide publication

The crèches should be treated similar or even harsher.

the abuse is Much more serious than a dodgy meal in a restaurant.

evil_seed

Surely with that ****e going on she'd have to get re-vetted to work with kids? How is this allowed?

v638sg7k1a92bx

Why are people surprised by this. Every few years we have another "expose" revealing what we already know.

As parents and a society, when did we decide that it was better for parents to become wage slaves and outsource the rearing of our children to these places?

Neyite

Lisa Full Robbery wrote: »

Why are people surprised by this. Every few years we have another "expose" revealing what we already know.

As parents and a society, when did we decide that it was better for parents to become wage slaves and outsource the rearing of our children to these places?

Point me to a time where people were NOT wage slaves? :pac:

Parents have always worked. Many worked fields and factories with babies and toddlers strapped to their backs and when those babies were about 4 or 5 they got put to work too, or the babies stayed at home with the live in grandparents to allow you to go out and work.

These days grandparents want to enjoy their retirement, they've done their rearing. And people don't often want their mother or mother-in-law living with them, so don't have the live-in care that they used to.

Many societies had their own child-care organisation. In Native American tribes the babies and toddlers were gathered together with a few of the less able tribeswomen minding them while their mothers worked for the benefit of the whole tribe. Lots of other cultures have a similar setup. Even the animal kingdom do it - meerkats for instance nominate one to babysit the little meerkats so the other meerkats can do the meerkat version of the daily grind.

Then there's our economy. There are some that bang on that it's a choice. In some cases it's just not a choice and that's not down to poor financial choices on the parents, just the fact that they need the two modest wages coming in to cover basic bills.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Neyite wrote: »

Point me to a time where people were NOT wage slaves? :pac:

Parents have always worked. Many worked fields and factories with babies and toddlers strapped to their backs and when those babies were about 4 or 5 they got put to work too, or the babies stayed at home with the live in grandparents to allow you to go out and work.

These days grandparents want to enjoy their retirement, they've done their rearing. And people don't often want their mother or mother-in-law living with them, so don't have the live-in care that they used to.

Many societies had their own child-care organisation. In Native American tribes the babies and toddlers were gathered together with a few of the less able tribeswomen minding them while their mothers worked for the benefit of the whole tribe. Lots of other cultures have a similar setup. Even the animal kingdom do it - meerkats for instance nominate one to babysit the little meerkats so the other meerkats can do the meerkat version of the daily grind.

Then there's our economy. There are some that bang on that it's a choice. In some cases it's just not a choice and that's not down to poor financial choices on the parents, just the fact that they need the two modest wages coming in to cover basic bills.

I can point you to the 1980's when a family of 2 adults and 4 children could buy a house, pay the bills and run a car on one wage.

What I don't understand is why parents on the annual industrial wage are working just to pay the child care bills.

Neyite

Lisa Full Robbery wrote: »

I can point you to the 1980's when a family of 2 adults and 4 children could buy a house, pay the bills and run a car on one wage.

What I don't understand is why parents on the annual industrial wage are working just to pay the child care bills.

The 80's are long gone, and so are the house prices unfortunately.



In answer to your question - it's because the little they do have left over after creche fees is needed. When my son was in creche I would get paid and it covered the cost of the creche, the monthly rent on our apartment, and one bill out of the gas or electricity and maybe two big weekly grocery shops if I was very careful. Without my income, there's no way my partner's salary could cover all that sans creche fees and the other stuff like the rest of the bills, car costs and the other little things that tend to crop up like doctor/prescription fees, dental fees and so on. We were caught because we earned too little to manage on one wage but too much to qualify for any kind of social welfare assistance. And it was also the recession so there were no jobs anywhere so even if we wanted to change jobs, there weren't any to change to.

awec

Lisa Full Robbery wrote: »

I can point you to the 1980's when a family of 2 adults and 4 children could buy a house, pay the bills and run a car on one wage.

What I don't understand is why parents on the annual industrial wage are working just to pay the child care bills.

Well I doubt they are working just to pay the child care bills.

If someone's salary brings home more than the child care costs then of course it makes sense to work.

If someone's salary brings home less than the child care cost it doesn't make sense to work, and in my experience people in this scenario do not work.

jlm29

Lisa Full Robbery wrote: »

What I don't understand is why parents on the annual industrial wage are working just to pay the child care bills.

It’s for a short time. I could give up my job (just barely) and stay at home with my kids, but I wouldn’t get my job back in five years when they’re all in school. I really like my job, so giving it up would be bad for me mentally.

iamwhoiam

Lisa Full Robbery wrote: »

I can point you to the 1980's when a family of 2 adults and 4 children could buy a house, pay the bills and run a car on one wage.

What I don't understand is why parents on the annual industrial wage are working just to pay the child care bills.

You don’t need to point me to the 80’s as I was there rearing children
The house prices were not comparable to now and mortgages and rents a much lower percentage of our wages . We managed because our outgoing matched our income on one wage
It is now almost impossible for a family on an average wage to live on one wage. I help out with child minding for my family because I know how difficult it is for them now

Ms2011

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Lisa Full Robbery wrote: »

I can point you to the 1980's when a family of 2 adults and 4 children could buy a house, pay the bills and run a car on one wage.

What I don't understand is why parents on the annual industrial wage are working just to pay the child care bills.

It is now almost impossible for a family on an average wage to live on one wage. I help out with child minding for my family because I know how difficult it is for them now

I wouldn't say impossible. Up until 2 years ago we were paying a Dublin mortgage & keeping 2 cars on the road on just my husband's forklift driving wage.
Was it easy? No but doable with good budgeting .
I know everyone's circumstances, family goals etc are different but to say it can't be done is not necessarily true.

iamwhoiam

Ms2011 wrote: »

I wouldn't say impossible. Up until 2 years ago we were paying a Dublin mortgage & keeping 2 cars on the road on just my husband's forklift driving wage.
Was it easy? No but doable with good budgeting .
I know everyone's circumstances, family goals etc are different but to say it can't be done is not necessarily true.

Which is why I said almost impossible !

The J Stands for Jay

Lisa Full Robbery wrote: »

I can point you to the 1980's when a family of 2 adults and 4 children could buy a house, pay the bills and run a car on one wage.

What I don't understand is why parents on the annual industrial wage are working just to pay the child care bills.

In the 80s housing costs were much less. The fact that there was only one income in the majority of households likely also had an influence on house prices.

They continue working in the hope of getting ahead and having a better future. Of they did stay at home 7btik the kids went to school, would they be able to get back into the workforce with a gap on their CV?

scarepanda

Ms2011 wrote:

I wouldn't say impossible. Up until 2 years ago we were paying a Dublin mortgage & keeping 2 cars on the road on just my husband's forklift driving wage. Was it easy? No but doable with good budgeting . I know everyone's circumstances, family goals etc are different but to say it can't be done is not necessarily true.

It's hard though. We're a single income family, not living in Dublin, although there is a commute to Dublin a couple days a week. My husband's income is pretty good, were not big spenders by any means and we have every penny accounted for, but we still wouldn't be able to live anywhere near Dublin and be able to afford for me to stay at home.

The J Stands for Jay

Ms2011 wrote: »

I wouldn't say impossible. Up until 2 years ago we were paying a Dublin mortgage & keeping 2 cars on the road on just my husband's forklift driving wage.
Was it easy? No but doable with good budgeting .
I know everyone's circumstances, family goals etc are different but to say it can't be done is not necessarily true.

Doesn't forklift driving pay quite well?

Ms2011

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Ms2011 wrote: »

I wouldn't say impossible. Up until 2 years ago we were paying a Dublin mortgage & keeping 2 cars on the road on just my husband's forklift driving wage.
Was it easy? No but doable with good budgeting .
I know everyone's circumstances, family goals etc are different but to say it can't be done is not necessarily true.

Which is why I said almost impossible !

I get that that's why I was just highlighting that almost impossible isn't impossible.