Why Nobody Can Exit Manulla Junction

Jonathan1990

Just thought I'd mention this to you all here. Over on a British railway forum I'm currently discussing railway stations that can not be reached in the car and only by train. The first reply I got was about Manulla Junction in county Mayo. I've never seen any railway station only for changing trains with no entrance/exit before. It's got me wondering why this is.

L1011

It's in the middle of nowhere. The junction between the Isle of Wight normal railway and the preserved one is the same, it's not unique

Del.Monte

L1011 wrote: »

It's in the middle of nowhere. The junction between the Isle of Wight normal railway and the preserved one is the same, it's not unique

It may be in a remote spot but there was road access in the past but CIE wisely flogged off the land leaving the station landlocked.

end of the road

why did they bother reopening it instead of just having the connection for the westport services continue to be at claremoris, given that trains i believe had to go there to run around anyway?
presumably it was to get in more round trips and connections with the westport services?

Utter Consternation

With the sheer numbers of people disembarking the Westport train for the Ballina train, they can't safely open the station to the public. It would be far too hazardous to add even more people to the millions who use the Ballina branch.

Losty Dublin

end of the road wrote: »

why did they bother reopening it instead of just having the connection for the westport services continue to be at claremoris, given that trains i believe had to go there to run around anyway?
presumably it was to get in more round trips and connections with the westport services?

Using Manulla as the change point allowed for rationalising of signalboxes in the region, namely the closure of Balla (Which controlled the junction) and Castlebar cabins, with Manulla becoming the new block post. Castlebar, which by then was superseded by Claremorris as the regional freight hub, was demoted to a halt under control of Westport and had it's sidings and loop removed.

Also, the requirements of the day dictated that wooden bodied stock couldn't work passenger trains on a mainline. Using Manulla as the transfer point for passengers got CIE around this requirement at a time when they hadn't the immediate resources to buy suitable new stock.

Lastly, changing at Manulla saved about 15 minutes for Ballina passengers. The line also gained with the reopening of Foxford

Del Monte wrote:

It may be in a remote spot but there was road access in the past but CIE wisely flogged off the land leaving the station landlocked.

Nonsense. There's still road access to the site; PW can get onto the track here and there is a Comms mast there as well.

Vic_08

end of the road wrote: »

why did they bother reopening it instead of just having the connection for the westport services continue to be at claremoris, given that trains i believe had to go there to run around anyway?
presumably it was to get in more round trips and connections with the westport services?

It is considerably quicker, the connections at Manulla are 2-3 minutes in the primary direction, when Claremorris was used the Ballina train had to be further ahead southbound and wait longer northbound for the signal sections to be cleared.

It also allows reasonable journey times for Westport-Ballina journeys as well as providing step-free connections.

Utter Consternation

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Also, the requirements of the day dictated that wooden bodied stock couldn't work passenger trains on a mainline. Using Manulla as the transfer point for passengers got CIE around this requirement at a time when they hadn't the immediate resources to buy suitable new stock.

.

That after Cherryville?

Jamie2k9

Utter Consternation wrote: »

With the sheer numbers of people disembarking the Westport train for the Ballina train, they can't safely open the station to the public. It would be far too hazardous to add even more people to the millions who use the Ballina branch.

This is a joke right?

Losty Dublin

Utter Consternation wrote: »

That after Cherryville?

Pretty much, yeah. The crashes at Buttevant and Inch also played their parts in their withdrawal.

Utter Consternation

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

This is a joke right?

What do you think?

Jamie2k9

Utter Consternation wrote: »

What do you think?

Considering what some pro railway people think/say I have learned not to assume!

Utter Consternation

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Considering what some pro railway people think/say I have learned not to assume!

Ha ha. Fair enough. I was being extremely tongue in cheek.

I've heard rumours that even though Manulla is only a transfer point members of the public do use it as a starting/finishing point for their journeys.

purplepanda

A strange carry on! :rolleyes: Wouldn't it be better to reopen Balla & maybe pickup some extra potential customers?

Some might even like to travel Balla to Ballina or back? :pac:

tabbey

Some years ago I intended to go from Dublin first to Ballina, then to Westport on the following train.
Standing on the Manulla platform just behind the branch train, I took a photo of the ICR departing towards Westport. It would not have delayed the Ballina passengers to have waited ten seconds, but the crew departed, even though with no public exit, it was obvious that I intended to use the train.

I had no choice but to exit the junction, walking illegally on the track beneath the bridge, then up some steps to the road.

For once the great metropolis of Manulla had a visitor for a couple of hours, but it had no Grand Hotel, not even a shebeen or sweet shop.

When I was in the location a few weeks ago, the unofficial exit onto the road was impassable due to vegetation and I think the gate locked. There is a permanent way base beside the railway, but it has high gates and fences. Today anyone in this predicament would have to walk along the Ballina branch to the level crossing across the N60 road.

Considering the compo culture which prevails, I should have stayed on the platform and sued Irish Rail for emotional trauma as well as my foregone time in Ballina. The conduct of the branch train crew was not merely negligent but reckless.

tabbey

purplepanda wrote: »

A strange carry on! :rolleyes: Wouldn't it be better to reopen Balla & maybe pickup some extra potential customers?

Some might even like to travel Balla to Ballina or back? :pac:

Balla station is a considerable distance from the village, it is probably better served by road, but yes Ballina would be a potential route. Apart from the joke halts at Ardrahan and Craughwell, places the size of Balla would not be considered for re-opening.

When the Ballina trains ran through to Claremorris, it was so the loco could run around the train. Balla was midway between Claremorris and Castlebar, so was a useful location for a block post.
This was a time costly exercise for Ballina passengers, as the branch train had to wait in Claremorris until the Westport train had cleared Balla. The present arrangement allows Ballina passengers to have a shorter journey time overall.

Looking at Balla a few weeks ago, it was a sorry sight, slowly disintegrating, sad, but who would want a house in such an isolated place, apart from rail enthusiasts who could see and hear freight trains.

Vic_08

tabbey wrote: »

Some years ago I intended to go from Dublin first to Ballina, then to Westport on the following train.
Standing on the Manulla platform just behind the branch train, I took a photo of the ICR departing towards Westport. It would not have delayed the Ballina passengers to have waited ten seconds, but the crew departed, even though with no public exit, it was obvious that I intended to use the train.

I had no choice but to exit the junction, walking illegally on the track beneath the bridge, then up some steps to the road.

For once the great metropolis of Manulla had a visitor for a couple of hours, but it had no Grand Hotel, not even a shebeen or sweet shop.

When I was in the location a few weeks ago, the unofficial exit onto the road was impassable due to vegetation and I think the gate locked. There is a permanent way base beside the railway, but it has high gates and fences. Today anyone in this predicament would have to walk along the Ballina branch to the level crossing across the N60 road.

Considering the compo culture which prevails, I should have stayed on the platform and sued Irish Rail for emotional trauma as well as my foregone time in Ballina. The conduct of the branch train crew was not merely negligent but reckless.

I have heard some rubbish from trainspotters over the years but that is just next level entitlement.

You seriously expected the traincrew to just wait while you farted about on the platform taking pictures and scribbling numbers?

Had you asked them if you had the time to take a photo of the Westport departing you would either have been given a bit of leeway to take your shot and board the Ballina or been told it wasn't possible and you needed to get on the train without delay but you just expected them to know what you were at and stand by delaying their service while you indulged in your hobby? FFS.

As for the compo, negligence, reckless drivel, it it any wonder some staff have a negative attitude to enthusiasts.

purplepanda

tabbey wrote: »

Balla station is a considerable distance from the village.

Looking at Balla a few weeks ago, it was a sorry sight, slowly disintegrating, sad, but who would want a house in such an isolated place, apart from rail enthusiasts who could see and hear freight trains.

My apologies it appears that the old station is about 1KM from the village, locals can jump on bus services in the centre. I thought the railway was much closer to the village!

whisky_galore

tabbey wrote: »

Some years ago I intended to go from Dublin first to Ballina, then to Westport on the following train.
Standing on the Manulla platform just behind the branch train, I took a photo of the ICR departing towards Westport. It would not have delayed the Ballina passengers to have waited ten seconds, but the crew departed, even though with no public exit, it was obvious that I intended to use the train.

I had no choice but to exit the junction, walking illegally on the track beneath the bridge, then up some steps to the road.

For once the great metropolis of Manulla had a visitor for a couple of hours, but it had no Grand Hotel, not even a shebeen or sweet shop.

When I was in the location a few weeks ago, the unofficial exit onto the road was impassable due to vegetation and I think the gate locked. There is a permanent way base beside the railway, but it has high gates and fences. Today anyone in this predicament would have to walk along the Ballina branch to the level crossing across the N60 road.

Considering the compo culture which prevails, I should have stayed on the platform and sued Irish Rail for emotional trauma as well as my foregone time in Ballina. The conduct of the branch train crew was not merely negligent but reckless.

I'm sorry but the service is not operated to cater for photographers. Let that be a lesson for you.
It isn't the 1950s where the train crew might make a pot of tea or decamp to the nearest pub while you take photos or pick flowers.

Jamie2k9

Vic_08 wrote: »

I have heard some rubbish from trainspotters over the years but that is just next level entitlement.

You seriously expected the traincrew to just wait while you farted about on the platform taking pictures and scribbling numbers?

Had you asked them if you had the time to take a photo of the Westport departing you would either have been given a bit of leeway to take your shot and board the Ballina or been told it wasn't possible and you needed to get on the train without delay but you just expected them to know what you were at and stand by delaying their service while you indulged in your hobby? FFS.

As for the compo, negligence, reckless drivel, it it any wonder some staff have a negative attitude to enthusiasts.

To be honest if drivers or any railway staff have a negative attitude towards spotters then chances are they do towards everybody. They do no harm to anybody provided they do there spotting the right side of the line.

Lord Glentoran

Utter Consternation wrote: »

Ha ha. Fair enough. I was being extremely tongue in cheek.

I've heard rumours that even though Manulla is only a transfer point members of the public do use it as a starting/finishing point for their journeys.

More lower cheek than upper cheek I’d say.

railer201

whisky_galore wrote: »

I'm sorry but the service is not operated to cater for photographers. Let that be a lesson for you.
It isn't the 1950s where the train crew might make a pot of tea or decamp to the nearest pub while you take photos or pick flowers.

In the 1950's with the slam doors, and 'slow to accelerate' steamers you'd simply run after the train and jump on after taking the photos.

vicwatson

Are many people using this line Ballina-Foxford-Manulla and back on a daily basis?

dowlingm

With the new US president having ancestry in Ballina they might end up having to make Ballina the main and Westport the branch to handle post Covid tourist demand :D:D

Zebra3

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but would it be possible for me to exit and enter MJ station to gain access to the local area?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293004#Comment_120293004

No. There is no public access to the station except by rail.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299431#Comment_120299431

So much for sustainability…..

Poxyshamrock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299864#Comment_120299864

It's very sustainable as the only way to access the station is by public transport! 😁

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299864#Comment_120299864

The station is in the middle of nowhere.

In the greater scheme of things on the railway, there are far more important things that need to happen than providing public access to Manulla Junction, which would have to be in compliance with the latest accessiblilty requirements with the added costs that involves.

Bus Éireann and GoBus each provide six and five return services on their commercial routes 52 and 430 respectively between Claremorris, Balla and Castlebar each day in each direction en route between Ballina and Galway, and there are two Bus Éireann PSO route 440 services in each direction each day that also stop at Manulla Crossroads en route between Westport, Castlebar, Claremorris and Knock Airport.

That's probably more than enough sustainability!

ArmaniJeanss

What's the exit plan in the case of an emergency situation at Manulla? Admittedly I'm not quite sure what major incident could happen on a concrete platform, but it doesn't seem right that you've no official way of 'leaving the station'. It's presumably just 'pick a random direction and hope for the best'.

bikeman1

The same as if an accident happened anywhere else on the 168 mile line between Heuston and Westport evacuate to wherever possible. Manulla is a quick hop across between the two trains and usually takes no more than two minutes in the down direction and as soon as the up arrives it is away.

In any emergency, plenty of open space to evacuate away from the station. Having a stairwell or lift to a road wouldn’t make it anymore safe in the case of a fire on a train (probably the worst incident possible there).

cml387

It's long closed of course, but Inny Junction on the MGWR line between Mullingar and Longford had no road access.

L1011

There is access to the trackbed from the road; looking at satellite imagery; that would be used in an emergency.

StudentDad

God help the person trying to get to Ballina from Westport/Castlebar or to Westport/Castlebar from Ballina. Looking at the timetable, the poor unfortunate has to hang around on an empty platform at Manulla Junction for an hour. God help you if the weather is bad. There isn't even a bench to sit on.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211090#Comment_121211090

That's a bit of a misrepresentation.

In both directions, out of five possible connections, three are five minutes or less, one is over 30 minutes, and only one is an hour, but for both of the last two, the Ballina train remains at Manulla Junction so passengers can remain on the train.

StudentDad

So a disabled person who has an appointment for 9:30 tomorrow morning in Ballina, can what? Get a bus? A taxi? Or hang around on an empty platform with no shelter of any kind for an hour?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211335#Comment_121211335

They would be waiting on the inbound train, cause it stays there, as explained in the post above yours.#

Having an exit from the station to the absolute nothingness there is around would not make a wait there any better. That's the purpose of the thread.

StudentDad

Looking at the timetable for tomorrow morning, as far as I can see it's the same for the rest of the week. The first train leaves Westport and anyone going to Ballina hops off at Manulla for their connecting train. 5:15 Westport - 5:34 Manulla - 5:38 Manulla to Ballina, getting to Ballina at 6:05.

Fair enough.

The next train leaves Westport at 7:15 and as the previous train picks up the passengers from Castlebar and then drops them off at Manulla at 7:35. So, either these passengers hang around on an empty platform without any shelter or public conveniences of any kind until the next train at 8:40 and then get to Ballina for 9:07 or a the train then comes back from the earlier run and sits there, for an hour on the platform, for an hour? Doing what? Reading a book?

If that is the case, frankly that's perverse.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211589#Comment_121211589

OK, first point to make is that the connections at Manulla Junction are primarily to/from Dublin and that always takes precedence.

Second point is that both the lines from Westport and Ballina to Manulla Junction are single track so no trains can pass another one in the opposite direction at any point between Westport or Ballina and Manulla Junction, so that limits what can be done from a timetabling perspective.

In the example you quote above, the train leaves Ballina at 07:05 and arrives at Manulla Junction at 07:32 to connect into the train to Dublin, which is the 07:15 from Westport. It then stays at Manulla Junction until 08:40 when it returns to Ballina, taking a connection out of the train from Athlone to Westport.

It cannot go back to and from Ballina during that period as there is a freight train leaving Ballina at 08:05 for North Wall. Otherwise there would be no connection for Ballina out of the 07:08 train from Athlone.

At 08:31 the train from Athlone arrives at Manulla Junction, and departs at 08:32. At 08:37 the freight train from Ballina will pass through the station towards Dublin. Then at 08:40 the train to Ballina can finally leave.

So, in the second example that you quote any passengers going from Westport or Castlebar can sit on the Ballina train for the time that they are waiting at Manulla Junction. They are not left on the platform. No it's not ideal, but unfortunately, it's just not possible to suit everyone given the infrastructure constraints.

Drifter100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211927#Comment_121211927

A precise and well explained reply

Ubbquittious

Looks like road access has only been blocked artificially via a gate

p_haugh

This was from last week, but I thought it was kind of funny. No mention of where the bus transfers would happen, so one could infer passengers were to somehow exit from Manulla 😂

Obviously it was probably Claremorris for the bus transfer.