Does the "asking for hand in marriage" tradition still go on?

Pawwed Rig

I agree with you to a degree B&C but the walking down the aisle I would see more of getting people involved in the celebration. I definitely didn't see it as my wife's parents (mother in our case) giving her away.

Jaysus we were making up roles for nephews an nieces by the morning of our wedding trying to include people. One kid ended up being 'the lord of the rings'.

Depends on how you see it for me.

baby and crumble

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I agree with you to a degree B&C but the walking down the aisle I would see more of getting people involved in the celebration. I definitely didn't see it as my wife's parents (mother in our case) giving her away.

Jaysus we were making up roles for nephews an nieces by the morning of our wedding trying to include people. One kid ended up being 'the lord of the rings'.

OUTSTANDING. :pac::pac::pac:

I know, I still find it weird though. Then again, I come from a family that love each other dearly and fiercely, but don't always want 'involvement'. My Dad probably wouldn't have refused walking me down the aisle but wouldn't have been too enthusiastic about it. I actually think it would have felt strange at my age (35 when we married) have be walked somewhere by my parents?

Anyway, I reckon I might be in a minority on that one, so fair enough.

zedhead

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I agree with you to a degree B&C but the walking down the aisle I would see more of getting people involved in the celebration. I definitely didn't see it as my wife's parents (mother in our case) giving her away.

Jaysus we were making up roles for nephews an nieces by the morning of our wedding trying to include people. One kid ended up being 'the lord of the rings'.

Depends on how you see it for me.

I agree with this. I hated the idea of my fiance speaking to my dad before we got engaged but I still want my dad to walk me down the aisle (or well into the registry office room, not sure how much of an aisle there is). For me its not about him giving me about but about having a few moments with just my dad on the morning of the wedding. My mum is involved so much more (dress shopping, since my sister is the only bridesmaid we will include her in picking that dress and the 3 of us will pick my mums outfit together - she will be getting hair and make up done with us on the morning, coming to get nails done before, invited to the hen etc), that this is the way I feel I can really have my dad involved in things.

But to each their own. I have found that weddings are a minefield. Lots of things cause problems and upset that I thought would be fairly straightforward. But like B&C I am learning that I just need to put my foot down and then people move on and get on board.

Electric Sheep

It's also traditional to be married before having kids. Having someone ask permission for marriage to a grown woman who has already made the commitment of parenthood is cringe inducing.

baby and crumble

baby and crumble wrote: »

I think they stop being 'a bit of fun' when someone like the OP has to essentially do something that I don't think she actually wants to do (have her partner ask her Dad for permission to ask her to marry him) in order for the Dad to not take the hump and get upset by it. There's mentions of people on thread who's father-in-laws prefer other husbands who 'married in' - not because they're nicer, but because they asked for 'permission'. That's a bonkers scenario by anyone's standards, surely?

Weddings really are not for the faint-hearted. I don't mean marriage. I mean the actual wedding. More chances for random people to get upset because they think their tradition is more important than the wishes of the couple. I saw it in my own wedding planning, but thankfully we were old enough to put our foot down with families, and also there are a lot less traditions to manage as a same-sex couple. Nobody knew what to expect with ours so they were quite surprised at how traditional it really was on the day! :pac::pac:

If they don't want to do it then they shouldn't. You won't find many people saying it should be mandatory, certainly not me.

But I won't judge anyone who wants to do it. But would say you'd want to be fairly sure as to what the brides preference is.

love_love

As I've said before, I told my now-husband that I liked the idea of him speaking to my dad prior to proposing. Not for permission, just to let him know. They have a special relationship and I knew my dad would feel special at being included. My dad's reaction was pretty much as I expected it to be, "What are you telling me for, sure it up to yous" so there was definitely no misunderstanding there. My dad also walked me down the aisle, which some people (my sister especially) were surprised that I'd go for something so "traditional" but, again, it just felt right. I know what it traditionally represents but to me it's as silly to do something you don't want to do for tradition's sake as it is to not do something that you want to do simply because it's traditional.

To respond to the OP, you know your family best. I wouldn't be too concerned as to what "the done thing" is because your family's expectations are individual to them, regardless of what anyone else is doing. Then it's up to you to decide if you and your partner feel comfortable with meeting your family's expectations if they don't match up with your own.

robinph

love_love wrote: »

As I've said before, I told my now-husband that I liked the idea of him speaking to my dad prior to proposing. Not for permission, just to let him know. They have a special relationship and I knew my dad would feel special at being included. My dad's reaction was pretty much as I expected it to be, "What are you telling me for, sure it up to yous" so there was definitely no misunderstanding there

That sounds like there was a misunderstanding between you and your now-husband though and you were setting him up to make a fool of himself infront of your father. Why on earth did you make him go through with the charade as you knew it wasn't something your father was going to give a damn about?

blue note

I always hate seeing how intolerant so many people are of other people's choice to ask permission or not. We're long past the time where you have to ask the father's permission to marry his daughter. But some people still like the idea for a variety of reasons. Often they just want the father to feel included. The mother will be at the dress shopping and will be far more involved in general in the wedding (generally speaking). It can be a way of including him. Maybe they value their father's opinion and think this is a nice way of getting him to admit he thinks you made a good choice. Maybe it's the starter for a rare meaningful conversation your partner will have with your father. But whatever the reason, however rational or not, if your (hopefully) wife to be would like you to ask her father's permission, then I would regard it as a show of respect to your partner to have that awkward conversation with her father. If you feel strongly against it, then you've a decision to make.

If the opposite is true and she does not like the tradition or even hates it, then don't do it. But whether you decide to do it or not, or whatever your opinions on it, don't judge other people for what they decide to do. It does not affect you!!!

P. S. I decided to ask both my partners parents. It's a close family and we bought a house just down the road from them, and I felt it was a nice way to officially ask to be accepted into the family prior to proposing to my gf. I also thought it was nice for them to be excited about it for a few days before getting the phone call.

blacklilly

It entirely depends on the couple in question, what works for one, won't work for another.

I don't think its fair to say it is outdated. It's a personal choice and it's one that meant so much to me.

In my case, I had previously mentioned that I would like my now fiance to give my dad a heads up. For me personally, I have a very strong connection/relationship to my dad, I'm his only daughter and we have been through some very trying times in recent years with illness etc. So for me personally, I really wanted him to feel included if that makes sense.

His reply to my finance when he told him he was going to pop the question was "that's fine with me but it'll be Blacklilly's decision":pac:

baby and crumble

To be fair, I think it's important to go back the OP's question - some folks seem to think the OP is a guy who is asking whether or not he should ask the Dad re: asking his GF. that's not the case. The OP is asking whether or not it's necessary and likely to cause offence if her BF doesn't ask her Dad for permission to ask her to marry him, even though they have a child together and are planning to get married regardless.

If nothing else it shows that the topic is mixed, and really the only way to know that is to ask the Dad himself, but that sort of negates the purpose really.

A nice way to cover all bases might be for the BF to ask both of the OP's parents for their blessing and support in moving forward with this stage of their lives. That way everyone is probably happy, it's not like it has patriarchal overtones that some folks on thread have pointed out they would hate to be party to, and also appease those on thread who think it's the height of rudeness and ignorance NOT the ask the dad.

love_love

robinph wrote: »

That sounds like there was a misunderstanding between you and your now-husband though and you were setting him up to make a fool of himself infront of your father. Why on earth did you make him go through with the charade as you knew it wasn't something your father was going to give a damn about?

Not in the slightest, my dad felt very special to have been entrusted with the secret and, as I said, my husband and dad both know each other quite well so there's no airs and graces. The words out of his mouth aren't to be taken literally, I meant only to point out that he knew he wasn't being asked for permission. I'm sure we've all said to someone before "You didn't need to do that" when receiving a present or a favour; it doesn't mean it isn't appreciated.

Anyway, as B&C said, hopefully the OP feels enlightened by the lively discussion!

robinph

baby and crumble wrote: »

If nothing else it shows that the topic is mixed

Yep, but the only people who seem to have cared about it within the couples that have asked the question is the potential wife thinking it would be a "nice gesture" or something. Any responses reported from the asked future father in law seems to be "huh? wtf you asking me for".

Although in fairness to the future father in laws, if they gave any response other than "nothing to do with me" that would probably be an indication that you should run away.

Addle

That may be just what they vocalize, but I guarantee you that mist are delighted to be thought of.

MiliMe

People will have their own views on what should or shouldn't be done but at the end of the day, what you send your partner want is what matters. If you feel like asking/ telling/ speaking ti your partners parent before popping the question then go ahead and do it. The only opinion that really matters is your partners.

LirW

Please take their relationship to their parents into account. Families are often not easy and there can be a lot of power play involved between children and parents.
Plenty of families get together for Christmas and are still massively dysfunctional.

My husband didn't ask my dad and I'm glad he didn't. We don't have a strong relationship, he wasn't a great dad and I didn't feel that anything needed to be validated by him. He's joking about it from time to time but in reality he doesn't care.

It depends on the family. Personally I feel it's nonsense in this day and age but I can see why couples with more traditional values would like that or that some see a romantic sentiment in it.
First and foremost it's important what your partner thinks about it. I know I would have been cross if he would have asked.

Faith

There are some things in life that I’m going to do my way, no matter what. There are other things in life where I realize I’m just a piece of a much bigger jigsaw and I do something because I know it means a lot to other people. My husband spoke to my father ahead of time, not because it mattered to us, but because it mattered to my dad. Sure, I could have ridden my feminist high horse, but all it would have done is hurt my dad’s feelings and set us off on a bad note. Same way I could have refused to have a hen party because I didn’t want one, but I had one because I know it meant a lot to my bridesmaids for me to have one.

IMO, there are times to be an individualist and there are times to be a collectivist. Only the people involved know what’s right for them in a particular situation, and nobody else’s opinion or judgement really matters in that decision.

Faith

Faith wrote: »

IMO, there are times to be an individualist and there are times to be a collectivist. Only the people involved know what’s right for them in a particular situation, and nobody else’s opinion or judgement really matters in that decision.

So much this...

SusanC10

My Dad was very old-school and traditional in an old-fashioned pure gentleman way. My Husband and I got engaged while abroad. My Husband phoned Dad the day before he proposed and told him the plan and asked for his blessing I suppose rather than permission. Dad was very happy and tbh so was I as it seemed to mean a lot to Dad.

I think it really does depend on the individuals involved.

yourdeadwright

I phoned her dad and asked for his "blessing" not permission but just a heads up kind a thing ,
I spoke to her mam in person and done the same ,

I think its a nice tradition, I have a good relationship with her parents but we already lived together with multiply kids so I wasn't asking for permission if you get me ,

Dave147

I didn't ask. But I went to my parents in law a few years ago with flowers wine and a ten year old bottle of Powers whiskey for my FIL and informed them I was going to ask their daughter to marry me. I thought this was the best way, I'm not looking for permission, I'm showing respect by letting them know first my intentions with their daughter. At the end of the day it's up to the couple, my wife and her dad are very close and when she found out what I did she was thrilled.

I will be marrying his baby daughter, the last of his three little girls. Of course I want his blessing.

twowheelsonly

jaxxx wrote: »

F*ck tradition. If a woman asks a man to marry her, does she need to ask his parents 'permission'? GTFO with these archaic practices and wake up. It's got nothing to do with 'respect' for the parents. 'Tradition' is nothing but an excuse to justify something that there is no justification for. It used to be 'tradition' for only males to vote. It used to be 'tradition' for left handed people to be forced to use their right hands. As I said already, f*ck tradition".

^ I'm male btw, just FYI.

So what you're really saying is F*ck her parents and what they might want ? F*ck their views and drive on with what you want ?? F*ck them if they're old-fashioned and traditional. Interesting view....

Anyone over the age of 10 knows that it's not really 'asking permission' but more giving the heads up to the parents of the bride and there's nothing wrong with that.

At the end of the day you won't be making a faux pas by 'asking' but you could be making a major one by not doing so. Most dads will laugh it off or make jokes about it but secretly they'll be delighted they were included.

robinph

twowheelsonly wrote: »

So what you're really saying is F*ck her parents and what they might want ? F*ck their views and drive on with what you want ?? F*ck them if they're old-fashioned and traditional. Interesting view....

Think you are slightly overstating the position there. It's not a "f*ck them and whatever they think", it's more "not their decision to make so why pretend to ask them".

Perpetuating the idea that permission has to be asked, however pointless everyone claims to think it is, really doesn't help with changing the impression of women being property. Maybe it is only a really minor blip on that scale, but for what everyone claims to be a pointless exercise, why carry on with the charade of doing it?

GarIT

twowheelsonly wrote: »

At the end of the day you won't be making a faux pas by 'asking' but you could be making a major one by not doing so.

It would be a deal breaker for me. It would absolutely end the relationship if my parents were asked.

optogirl

Slattsy wrote: »

Still very traditional, and most people with any respect for their partners parents do it.

I would not have wanted my husband to ask my Da before he asked me - it's a fairly outdated notion and has nothing to do with respect. I had a great relationship with my Dad & my husband and him got on really well too but I would have found it absolutely squirm inducingly embarrassing for everyone involved if that had happened. I know at least one of my brothers in law did - fair enough, that's what he wanted to do.

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

It would be a deal breaker for me. It would absolutely end the relationship if my parents were asked.

I find that most bizarre. Is it coming from an "I'm nobody's property" POV or what?

facehugger99

If I was asked, when the time came, by my Daughter's boyfriend for 'permission' to ask her to marry him, I would assume he was a beta.

I honestly wouldn't be comfortable with my Daughter marrying a beta and would advise her to refuse him.

eviltwin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I find that most bizarre. Is it coming from an "I'm nobody's property" POV or what?

It would be a deal breaker for me too because it would mean my partner doesn't really know me very well.

If my daughters boyfriend asked me I'd think he was a bit of a twat. That's if he'd ask me seeing as I'm a woman.

All easily solved. Remove the fairly sexist "tradition" of guy having to ask the woman to marry him.

People are very selective on the "traditions" they want to keep Vs those they wish to attack.

liquoriceall

I'm not sure why people insist this is a traditional thing? It was a tradition when people didn't make love matches. You asked the family so they could decide if you were capable of financially supporting her. My parents were married nearly 50 years ago in rural Ireland and my father certainly didn't ask my grandfather. Nobody in my immediate or extended family has done this. I am aware of friends doing it but personally find it odd.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

All easily solved. Remove the fairly sexist "tradition" of guy having to ask the woman to marry him.

People are very selective on the "traditions" they want to keep Vs those they wish to attack.

This is a good point. Some people are dead set on the traditional proposal and/or wedding day itself. Would ladies be okay if their prospective husband said "you know, I don't really buy into the whole 'spending €5k+ on an engagement ring' thing, so we'll just go ahead without one", or would you see it as a cheapskate move?

eviltwin

eviltwin wrote: »

It would be a deal breaker for me too because it would mean my partner doesn't really know me very well.

Yeah, but, dumping him?

All traditions are dumb at face value. Brining a tree into your house at Christmas for example. People still do them because it's a little fun.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

optogirl

Deleted User wrote: »

All easily solved. Remove the fairly sexist "tradition" of guy having to ask the woman to marry him.

People are very selective on the "traditions" they want to keep Vs those they wish to attack.

No problem. It's ridiculous that the man feels they have to be the one to do it or a woman feels embarassed to do it. There was no proposal in our house - a general, do you think we should? I don't want to organise a wedding. We'll do it together. OK so.

D3V!L

I didn't ask my father in law. I only found out afterwards that he would have liked if I did as my wife is his only daughter. Anyway, I was lucky he was happy for me to marry his "little girl" so it worked out all well in the end.

optogirl

Deleted User wrote: »

This is a good point. Some people are dead set on the traditional proposal and/or wedding day itself. Would ladies be okay if their prospective husband said "you know, I don't really buy into the whole 'spending €5k+ on an engagement ring' thing, so we'll just go ahead without one", or would you see it as a cheapskate move?

Yep. No engagement ring here. Complete waste of money when you are planning a wedding, which is going to cost you money even if you do it cheap and cheerfully. Would much rather spend that on a holiday. However some people have different views on that I know ... depends on the couple. There's no one way to do this.

Zaph

facehugger99 wrote: »

If I was asked, when the time came, by my Daughter's boyfriend for 'permission' to ask her to marry him, I would assume he was a beta.

I honestly wouldn't be comfortable with my Daughter marrying a beta and would advise her to refuse him.

I don't know which is the greater nonsense, this post or asking the parents.

Snotty

I spoke to my FIL the day before we when on a holidays when i had planned to propose. I didn't ask permission but if that would have been what he wanted, i would have surely, but instead he didn't expect me to give him the heads up but he really appreciated it, we had a good relationship before, but i actually think this helped it along too. He's definitely old school rural Ireland and my wife didn't think I would speak to him, not because she didn't want me to, she just though its something I would never do.
Its definitely something that is going to be depended on the husband, wife, father, families, for some it wont even be a consideration, for some they will do it out of obligation and others will do it (like me) just because it seemed like a good start to joining their family. Protesting about it is probably making a bigger deal of it than it is, its a nice touch and a bonding experience between 2 males, one who is going to be older and maybe more old school.

Raconteuse

Slattsy wrote: »

Still very traditional, and most people with any respect for their partners parents do it.

No, just asking the father does not respect both parents.

What's disrespectful about not asking the woman's father for her hand in marriage?

And what if it backfires and he says no?

It's a decision between the two people getting married, nobody else. The woman isn't a child who needs parental permission for anything - and I assume people who view this tradition as so essential for respect would object to the woman acting like a child in any other context, so why the exception?

Now if the dad would like it, and the future son-in-law would like to do it, and the woman is ok with it, and it's just a traditional thing that they feel good about doing, totally fair enough. But not doing so is not disrespectful. Seriously. Don't always view things as the thing to do just because they're traditional. Question things.

eviltwin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah, but, dumping him?

Well I certainly would not have married him. I was living with him 13 years, we had kids, I had a house and a job, I wasnt a child. If he had thought it was appropriate to ask my dad in those circumstances he'd have been wrong. But he didn't cause he knows me and my dad would have been insulted. We didn't have a proposal, engagement ring or any of that mallarky either but I don't think traditions are all or nothing. People can like one and hate another.

lazygal

My husband didn't do it, nor did my sister's husband. It would not occur to him that if and when our daughter or sons are about to be proposed to that a prospective partner would ask him for permission.

I had an engagement ring because I wanted one, my dad walked me up the aisle etc but the 'asking for your daughter's hand in marriage' thing creeps me out.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

My husband didn't do it, nor did my sister's husband. It would not occur to him that if and when our daughter or sons are about to be proposed to that a prospective partner would ask him for permission.

I had an engagement ring because I wanted one, my dad walked me up the aisle etc but the 'asking for your daughter's hand in marriage' thing creeps me out.

Then so should being "given away" no?

Salary Negotiator

I didn't ask permission but I did tell my fiance's parents I was going to ask because I knew it was important to my girlfriend.

Her dad seemed bemused and her mother cried. My fiance was happy too.

lazygal

Deleted User wrote: »

Then so should being "given away" no?

He wasn't giving me away. He walked down the aisle with me. As he wanted to.

twowheelsonly

lazygal wrote: »

He wasn't giving me away. He walked down the aisle with me. As he wanted to.

That's splitting straws really though. The father walking the bride down the aisle is traditionally the father 'giving away' the bride. Likewise the 'Asking the fathers permission' which in reality is just giving them a heads up in advance of anyone else.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

He wasn't giving me away. He walked down the aisle with me. As he wanted to.

Ah yeah I agree with you, but it's still a tradition based on being given away, which I don't have a problem with as it's not real but is a nice tradition.

I feel the same way about asking the parents, it's just adding to the excitement.

blue note

lazygal wrote: »

My husband didn't do it, nor did my sister's husband. It would not occur to him that if and when our daughter or sons are about to be proposed to that a prospective partner would ask him for permission.

I had an engagement ring because I wanted one, my dad walked me up the aisle etc but the 'asking for your daughter's hand in marriage' thing creeps me out.

There's a contradiction in not wanting your finance to ask for permission, but still wanting the tradition of your father giving you away. You didn't consider it being given away, but that's the tradition that you observed.

And I think that's completely fine. I don't think people should have to explain themselves on what traditions they like and which they don't. Sometimes people have a specific objection to a tradition and sometimes it just doesn't feel right to them. Or maybe they have an objection but just like it anyway. And that's all completely fine.

lazygal

blue note wrote: »

There's a contradiction in not wanting your finance to ask for permission, but still wanting the tradition of your father giving you away. You didn't consider it being given away, but that's the tradition that you observed.

And I think that's completely fine. I don't think people should have to explain themselves on what traditions they like and which they don't. Sometimes people have a specific objection to a tradition and sometimes it just doesn't feel right to them. Or maybe they have an objection but just like it anyway. And that's all completely fine.

Yeah, it isn't all or nothing. I could happily not have done the aisle thing but it was important to my dad, unlike himself asking him permission for marriage, so I did it. It's great that the lists of 'have tos' around weddings are rapidly getting smaller.

Antares35

My OH spoke to my Dad (he doesn't know this, I overheard them ) but it certainly wasn't asking permission, it was just telling him that this is what he was planning to do. I think some people are a little defensive about it. It's a tradition - do it if you want, don't do it if you don't want but don't be bullying and lambasting those who do. It's mean and it doesn't impact on you anyway. Sometimes traditions are held up just for nostalgia or whatever. Clearly, nobody actually thinks that daughters are their fathers property, and if you do think this, your problems go beyond this old school tradition. Traditions are there to be used or not, depending on the individual's preferences.

I like the idea that my OH spoke to my Dad about it. I know my Dad did too. I certainly am secure enough in my own independence as a grown woman with my own life, career, friends, goals etc. to not implode from sensitivity or offence because my other half decides to indulge my old dad in a bit of old school tradition. Also, people claiming that they would be grossly offended etc. if their partner did this - presumably, if you're planning to spend the rest of your life with someone, you would know them well enough to know where the land lies on this!

yourdeadwright

Just do what makes you happy,
I knew asking for the blessing , (not permission ) would make her parents feel a bit involved and excited for the whole thing, It was happing weather they liked it or not but I thought it was nice for everyone to feel some what a part of it as she is the only daughter,

Someone said they'd think the person asking was a "BETA" , im in no shape or form a beta but I knew asking would make other people feel good and excited so why not give them that moment, ,
I could have easy said nothing and done it myself no one would have really cared but if you can add a bit of excitement and give the family good memories why not ?

Each to there own but to say someone is "BETA" for asking shows you care way to much about keeping up front's and the fear of that actually makes you a " BETA "