Should Israel really be condemned and boycotted?

holyhead

Given that Hitler tried to eradicate Jews off the map its understandable the Israelis would have a persecution complex. The irony of the holocaust is that it probably and ultimately gave birth to the modern nation we know as Israel. The problem with the creation of the state is the annexation of Palestinian land to facilitate this. Palestinians understandably feel resentment towards Israel for this. Through settlements Israel is continuing a gradual annexation of the Palestinian Territories land. This is wrong.
Given that Israel is surrounded by countries hostile to its very existence it is understandable that it has a first class military set up to protect itself. But the hostility does not excuse annexation of land or excessive responses to Palestinian violence. Given the deep seated hatred by the Arab world towards Israel I don't foresee a sustainable peace ever being achieved. Too many hardliners on the Israeli side as well.
As long as the US backs Israel a boycott would be pointless. Indeed the US is the one country that Israel listens too. There are grounds for Israel to be condemned and for such condemnation not to be simply dismissed as being anti-semitic. Israel as with any other country is accountable for her actions and should be made to answer for same.

tayto lover

The Enbalmer wrote: »

The ONLY country in the middle east with a democracy

So being a Democracy gives them the right to murder innocents and grab their lands.
Don’t think I like that kind of Democracy.

ILoveYourVibes

holyhead wrote: »

Given that Hitler tried to eradicate Jews off the map its understandable the Israelis would have a persecution complex.

They don't have a persecution complex. They have an problem with Hamas bombs doing this.




I don't think Irish people realize the violence on BOTH sides is way way worse than in Northern Ireland.

In environments like this. Emotions run high. People become extreme.

I can understand why on both sides.


When both groups of people are living IN it and remember israelis serve in the IDF..its different. YOU would feel different if it was us.

If hamas was doing this to Ireland we would feel different. If Israel was doing this to Ireland we would feel different.

Paletinians feel resentment for what happened to them yesterday let alone decades ago.

They also have trouble coming to terms with the way the rest of the Arab world currently sees them and how things are changing.

There is a loss of self esteem.

walshb

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They don't have a persecution complex. They have an problem with Hamas bombs doing this.




I don't think Irish people realize the violence on BOTH sides is way way worse than in Northern Ireland.

In environments like this. Emotions run high. People become extreme.

I can understand why on both sides.

I always found that so many Irish feel it’s just their Irish duty to be anti Israel..or Pro Palestinian.

Personally: vast majority couldn’t really give a toss about Palestinians. Nor do the vast majority know a damn thing about the place or the conflict. Many wouldn’t even be able to point the area out on a map.

But it’s kinda’ fashionable to be waving the pro Palestinian flag here..

holyhead

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They don't have a persecution complex. They have an problem with Hamas bombs doing this.




I don't think Irish people realize the violence on BOTH sides is way way worse than in Northern Ireland.

In environments like this. Emotions run high. People become extreme.

I can understand why on both sides.


When both groups of people are living IN it and remember israelis serve in the IDF..its different. YOU would feel different if it was us.

If hamas was doing this to Ireland we would feel different. If Israel was doing this to Ireland we would feel different.

Paletinians feel resentment for what happened to them yesterday let alone decades ago.

They also have trouble coming to terms with the way the rest of the Arab world currently sees them and how things are changing.

There is a loss of self esteem.

The problem is when Palestinians slap an Israeli in the face the Israeli knees the Palestinian in the balls.

ILoveYourVibes

walshb wrote: »

I always found that so many Irish feel it’s just their Irish duty to be anti Israel..or Pro Palestinian.

Personally: vast majority couldn’t really give a toss about Palestinians. Nor do the vast majority know a damn thing about the place or the conflict. Many wouldn’t even be able to point the area out on a map.

But it’s kinda’ fashionable to be waving the pro Palestinian flag here..

I know.

In reality if they cared about either nation they would realize in reality the only position is to be neutrally encouraging reconciliation.

And that its way more complex than NI and way way more volatile.

There won't be a solution for a long long time.

James Brown

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Boycotted no. Particularly since the campaign to do so has been banned in the USA and France for having links to terrorism.


Condemned. Here is my take on that. If you condemn EVERYTHING Israel does you aren't seeing reality.

In some ways its a good country in some ways its not.


If you blame either side for more than 50% of the problem you are not seeing the truth.

Sometimes I see Israel do amazing things sometimes not so.

But it has a right to exist and defend itself. Should its politicians respect palestinians more yes.

Is the nation state law a good thing NO. But many surrounding muslim countries actually have similar laws.

There is not two sides in this ethnic war. We have an aggressor and a victim. We cannot excuse one on grounds of whataboutery.
Israel is stealing land and killing unarmed civilians. That's it.
A terrorist organisation born out of Israel's reign of terror called Hamas operates as a symptom of Israel's activities.

On boycotting, these regimes are more concerned about their pockets than human rights or morality. If Trump frowns upon it that just shows its decent.

ILoveYourVibes

holyhead wrote: »

The problem is when Palestinians slap an Israeli in the face the Israeli knees the Palestinian in the balls.

The israelis protect their balls....the Palestinians do not.

Hamas govt doesn't build bomb shelters. They build tunnel networks and bunkers.

tayto lover

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The israelis protect their balls....the Palestinians do not.

Hamas govt doesn't build bomb shelters. They build tunnel networks and bunkers.

Sledgehammer to crack a nut is the IDF way. Just sent missiles into a few hospitals or schools and kill as many Palestinians as possible or shoot children playing football on the beach.

mvt

tayto lover wrote: »

Sledgehammer to crack a nut is the IDF way. Just sent missiles into a few hospitals or schools and kill as many Palestinians as possible or shoot children playing football on the beach.

Hmmm....I'd say the israelis disproportionately react
because they feel they are disproportionately represented in the region..

Absolutely not absoulving them (or the Palestinians) of their behaviour , the whole mess is not a black & white issue.

hamsin

Today Jews live in their country and they and only they decide how they can defend themselves. And they don't care about condemnations, boycotts, lies and hatred - all these things Jews already experienced during their long history in exile.

end of the road

hamsin wrote: »

Today Jews live in their country and they and only they decide how they can defend themselves. And they don't care about condemnations, boycotts, lies and hatred - all these things Jews already experienced during their long history in exile.

israel and some of it's supporters do care however. hence they have tried to silence criticism of israel's terrorism (which they have thankfully failed to do so) and are not one bit happy about the boycot movement.
the boycot movement is likely going to work, it will take a long time but it will succeed. anyone who expected instant results with it were always going to be let down. these things take quite a lot of time.

tayto lover

hamsin wrote: »

Today Jews live in their country and they and only they decide how they can defend themselves. And they don't care about condemnations, boycotts, lies and hatred - all these things Jews already experienced during their long history in exile.

So they learned absolutely nothing from what the Nazis did to the Jews?
No empathy at all. Horrible way to live.

hamsin

end of the road wrote: »

israel and some of it's supporters do care however. hence they have tried to silence criticism of israel's terrorism

You mean exposing lie about "Israel's terrorism"? It's OK.

the boycot movement is likely going to work

Sweet dreams.

hamsin

tayto lover wrote: »

So they learned absolutely nothing from what the Nazis did to the Jews?
No empathy at all. Horrible way to live.

The last thing Israelis need is empathy of people like you.

tayto lover

hamsin wrote: »

The last thing Israelis need is empathy of people like you.

You didn’t read it right, did you?

ILoveYourVibes

tayto lover wrote: »

So they learned absolutely nothing from what the Nazis did to the Jews?
No empathy at all. Horrible way to live.

What?

You seriously think Jews lack empathy and you didn't say Israelis you said JEWS. And you said Jews didn't learn their lesson?

What lesson was that?

ILoveYourVibes

Matt Barrett wrote: »

There is not two sides in this ethnic war. We have an aggressor and a victim. We cannot excuse one on grounds of whataboutery.
Israel is stealing land and killing unarmed civilians. That's it.
A terrorist organisation born out of Israel's reign of terror called Hamas operates as a symptom of Israel's activities.

On boycotting, these regimes are more concerned about their pockets than human rights or morality. If Trump frowns upon it that just shows its decent.

Hamas is the democratically elected govt of gaza.

Fatah is the democratically elected govt of the West bank.

Yes they do have terrorist wings. They have army like strength though. They also kill Israeli civilians. Hamas snipers kill babies.

It wasn't simply born because of Israel though. It was born out of civil war in Lebannon etc situations with Jordan.

tayto lover

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What?

You seriously think Jews lack empathy and you didn't say Israelis you said JEWS. And you said Jews didn't learn their lesson?

What lesson was that?

Another one who has trouble reading.

ILoveYourVibes

tayto lover wrote: »

Another one who has trouble reading.

Clarify it then.

the dark phantom

The government does deserve condemnation but the people themselves don't, People of Jewish faith have suffered too much to be denied their own state but that's not to say I agree with whats happening there with regard to the Palestinians or the destabilisation of an entire region. Humans spending their short lives fighting and arguing over history, ethnicity and land is actually just crazy.

ILoveYourVibes

the dark phantom wrote: »

The government does deserve condemnation but the people themselves don't, People of Jewish faith have suffered too much to be denied their own state but that's not to say I agree with whats happening there with regard to the Palestinians or the destabilisation of an entire region. Humans spending their short lives fighting and arguing over history, ethnicity and land is actually just crazy.

That is the whole of the middle east though. A lot of it driven from Russia US rivalry at one point.

And yes i don't understand why its so hard to distinguish between a govt and a people.

I mean do people even KNOW the different political parties in Israel and their stances on the conflict?

Their names their politics likud etc?

tayto lover

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Clarify it then.

The Nazis murdered millions of Jews and seized their lands and possessions.
Israel has the middle east’s largest pop of Jews, 6.5 million and is the Jewish capital.
Israel murders Palestinians (on a smaller scale), seizes their land and property and herds them into selected areas.
Where is the Jewish empathy?

the dark phantom

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That is the whole of the middle east though. A lot of it driven from Russia US rivalry at one point.

And yes i don't understand why its so hard to distinguish between a govt and a people.

I mean do people even KNOW the different political parties in Israel and their stances on the conflict?

Their names their politics likud etc?

I think it sadly doesn't matter what govt parties people elect as I'd reckon the strings are pulled by unelected figures in the background. Yithzak Rabin's assassination and Ariel Sharon's illness put peace back years. Its a cluster**** of a situation now with too many players involved.

ILoveYourVibes

tayto lover wrote: »

The Nazis murdered millions of Jews and seized their lands and possessions.
Israel has the middle east’s largest pop of Jews, 6.5 million and is the Jewish capital.
Israel murders Palestinians (on a smaller scale), seizes their land and property and herds them into selected areas.
Where is the Jewish empathy?

So you admit it. You are saying Jews have no empathy. Yes this Jew can read.

That is pure antisemitism.

There were many Jews in Palestine when it was Palestine. Hebron was entirely a Jewish city until the Palestinians slaughtered them. That was 1929.

Then the grand mufti (arab leader of palestine ) helped hitler.

Then Palestine fell to the British. Arabs start attacking Jews in the streets. The British try to organize the jews to retort but the jews refuse.

Finally the Jews demand a Jewish state.

Palestine had never actually been a state. But the British gives them one. They don't want it. Its not the way they think. And they cannot accept Israel the new state.


Egypt, Jordan, and Syria ally with each other and attack Israel they lose in six days.

So who is lacking empathy?

Israel has shown endless patience and empathy with Palestine. Its never worked.

The Palestinian attitude towards Israel is at the very least to some part founded on antisemitism that goes back a long time.

A hamas sniper shooting an Israeli baby is not showing empathy no less than Israelis who don't care about Palestinian kids.

But people who have seen the other side murder their people for decades often lack empathy for each other. Your attitude is not ever going to help it. Your attitude is based on hatred and your own prejudice.

ILoveYourVibes

the dark phantom wrote: »

I think it sadly doesn't matter what govt parties people elect as I'd reckon the strings are pulled by unelected figures in the background. Yithzak Rabin's assassination and Ariel Sharon's illness put peace back years. Its a cluster**** of a situation now with too many players involved.

Its the middle east its not Europe it will always be a cluster **** you have to learn to work with that.

hamsin

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And yes i don't understand why its so hard to distinguish between a govt and a people.

I think that every society is responsible for its elected leaders.

hamsin

the dark phantom wrote: »

I think it sadly doesn't matter what govt parties people elect as I'd reckon the strings are pulled by unelected figures in the background.

Conspiracy?

ILoveYourVibes

hamsin wrote: »

I think that every society is responsible for its elected leaders.

The Palestinians elected Hamas and Fatah.

Israelis elected the leader of likud netenyahu. No one in likud has committed an act of terror. Netenyahu supports gay marriage health care for all builds bomb shelters for all israelis. Whatever you think of him he ain't no Trump.


He even has a new housing plan for Palestinians. It was part of his campaign in the elections to build new housing for palestinians out of good will in the west bank.
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Right-in-uproar-over-Netanyahus-Palestinian-building-plan-597114

ILoveYourVibes

hamsin wrote: »

Conspiracy?

No there is none.