If it's worth doing, do it right!!!

OOnegative

The Funk happens. For all of us. We can’t be happy all the time. We don’t need to be.

Scott Stabile.

OOnegative

While I’m here I’ll wrap this **** show up for 2020. A year none of us will ever forget, Covid is a scurge and isn’t going anywhere.

My running year to be truthfully honest was all about laziness and excuses, if I as lazy I had an excuse, if I had an excuse I was lazy. I caught Covid in March or so and quickly got over it, not something I would wish on anyone. I need a target to keep myself focused, as in a concrete race. Virtual or TT’s just don’t cut it for me I’m afraid.

Life wise my wife has secured another job and we’ll be here for another 9 years at least. My new job is still enthralling and it’s something i look forward to even the 5.30am alarms.

I’d like to say a big thank you to all who supported Little Blue Heroes in the 5k TT, it was a job I was once genuinely proud to represent and thank you all who donated.

I honestly don’t know what 2021 holds for us all, I hope to see my Mam, Dad & 2 sisters who I haven’t seen since last July. I hope racing returns, I hope I can meet some of you again for a social able run, I hope..........

Happy Christmas to you all, let Santa be good to you.

shotgunmcos

Happy Christmas to you B. Been a torrid year for sure but runners are a resilient bunch. Hope to meet you at a race next year!

ReeReeG

OOnegative wrote: »

While I’m here I’ll wrap this **** show up for 2020. A year none of us will ever forget, Covid is a scurge and isn’t going anywhere.

My running year to be truthfully honest was all about laziness and excuses, if I as lazy I had an excuse, if I had an excuse I was lazy. I caught Covid in March or so and quickly got over it, not something I would wish on anyone. I need a target to keep myself focused, as in a concrete race. Virtual or TT’s just don’t cut it for me I’m afraid.

Life wise my wife has secured another job and we’ll be here for another 9 years at least. My new job is still enthralling and it’s something i look forward to even the 5.30am alarms.

I’d like to say a big thank you to all who supported Little Blue Heroes in the 5k TT, it was a job I was once genuinely proud to represent and thank you all who donated.

I honestly don’t know what 2021 holds for us all, I hope to see my Mam, Dad & 2 sisters who I haven’t seen since last July. I hope racing returns, I hope I can meet some of you again for a social able run, I hope..........

Happy Christmas to you all, let Santa be good to you.

Happy Christmas to you, thanks for keeping us all entertained and keeping this place on the go! 2021 can only be better

Duanington

Book a marathon, B - need to see this log fired up again

Swashbuckler

Happy Christmas to you and the family B. Perhaps the greatest head to head this year was the 5k TT vs 1M TT battle. One of my Boards highlights of the year.

Thanks for being the heart and soul of this place.

Laineyfrecks

Your work around here does not got unnoticed, thanks for keeping it going! It's been a very strange year for everyone, we have all faced things that we never ever imagined before. It's **** there's no races, but they will come back eventually. Keep tapping away till you find your motivation.

I hope you & your family have a wonderful Christmas & hopefully one day I'll get to meet you with my bottle opener

Hannibal_Smith

Happy Christmas to you and your family Oneg and thanks for all you brought to us in 2020 .

Wubble Wubble

Congrats on Poster Of The Year B. Your efforts certainly don't go unnoticed by the regulars here. Enjoy a few crafty ones to celebrate.

Swashbuckler

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Congrats on Poster Of The Year B. Your efforts certainly don't go unnoticed by the regulars here. Enjoy a few crafty ones to celebrate.

I was robbed.....

Murph_D

Happy Christmas to all the Malones. Great news on the missus's new job, as I know ye all love it over there. Congrats too on the great work in the forum this year and a well deserved award (yet again!)

Annie get your Run

Congrats to L on the new job! That's great news . Congrats on your win too!! Very well deserved.

Happy Christmas to the five of ye (dogs are people too....), have a lovely Christmas - Covid will eventually go and we will have the biggest piss up ever known to man when it does, in the meantime keep the faith and keep the fitness up so that when you can race, you'll be in tip top shape.

OOnegative

https://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Monday 4.1.21

7.50miles Easy@8.09min/miles in 61mins 08secs

A very comfortable gentle trot around the neighbourhood, the most pleasant, enjoyable run that i've had in months. Started thinking of all things racing while out but soon catched myself on as that won't be happening in months.

Tuesday 5.1.21

6.30miles Easy@8.22min/miles in 52mins 44secs

Christ it was baltic, my manhood took the brunt:eek::eek:. Another enjoyable run, i admire lads who run pushing pushchairs, but if your going to do it it make sure you're fit enough to do so!! Helped a lad back to his feet who was totally gased after falling while pushing his daughter, he told me he had only taken running up in the New Year.

Wednesday 6.1.21

4.50 miles Recovery@8.44min/miles in 39mins 19secs

Just a gentle recovery jaunt in the freezing weather today, definitely more runners out and about since the start of the year, will they keep it up though?

I had a very quiet Christmas, working 12 hour shifts at times and nothing was done to excess. As is the norm, Santa brought me a few books to read. The first i put my hands on was "Inside a Marathon" a focus on NAZ Elite athlete Scott Fauble and his Coach Ben Rosario. I read this in less that two days as i couldn't put it down, last time i got through a book that quick it was a picture one!! An intriguing read the whole way through, i took a few things from it:

1. Scott Fauble ran most of his easy days in the 7/7.30min/miles, a man that has ran 2.09.xx for the marathon. Why do lads that can't break 2.45 in the marathon or can't break 19mins for 5k insist on running faster. I think i know which man is doing the correct thing.

2. The body can stand up to a lot as long as its looked after correctly and you take care of it. Fauble is a pro, but there is something all of us can learn from his approach to training.

3. Its ok to can a session, if your not feeling it, flogging yourself to the end doesn't get you anywhere and can possibly have a negative effect.

An essential read in my mind if you're interested in running in anyway.

ReeReeG

OOnegative wrote:

I had a very quiet Christmas, working 12 hour shifts at times and nothing was done to excess. As is the norm, Santa brought me a few books to read. The first i put my hands on was "Inside a Marathon" a focus on NAZ Elite athlete Scott Fauble and his Coach Ben Rosario. I read this in less that two days as i couldn't put it down, last time i got through a book that quick it was a picture one!! An intriguing read the whole way through, i took a few things from it:

Sounds like a good read alright, will add it to the never ending list

Swashbuckler

The NAZ elite YouTube channel is well worth following. Some great videos on there.

I've debated that whole easy running mantra with myself back and forth as I've seen some runners getting great success despite not following what I'd consider basic principles of running. I'm not sure there's a one size fits all. Seems to me some runners benefit from slightly faster easy runs. Fauble can afford to go that slow on his recovery days as he's probably running 120 mile weeks and three or four sessions. Different story for us amateurs especially those running less volume and sessions who may have less fatigue. But I don't know. I'll probably feel differently tomorrow. Lol

OOnegative

Swashbuckler wrote: »

The NAZ elite YouTube channel is well worth following. Some great videos on there.

I've debated that whole easy running mantra with myself back and forth as I've seen some runners getting great success despite not following what I'd consider basic principles of running. I'm not sure there's a one size fits all. Seems to me some runners benefit from slightly faster easy runs. Fauble can afford to go that slow on his recovery days as he's probably running 120 mile weeks and three or four sessions. Different story for us amateurs especially those running less volume and sessions who may have less fatigue. But I don't know. I'll probably feel differently tomorrow. Lol

Not saying one size fits all, granted a man like Fauble would have a lot more fatigue than me and you so anything in the 7.00min range is jogging to him. But us common folk are nowhere near in the same condition or fitness as him. By running in the 7.00min range as our easy pace is putting undue stress on our body that it cannot sustain for very long period till it eventually breaks down.

That’s my take on it.

ariana`

I used to stress out quite a bit about that easy run pace debacle but in the past few months I don't look at the watch until I get home. Some days I run 9:00min/m, other days I run 10:30min/m and most days it's somewhere in the middle. The thing is i couldn't really tell you what pace I'm running mid run because 9:00min/m can feel the same as 10:00min/m. Quite often the faster easy pace will be after a rest day or on the back of a couple of easy days and the slower easy pace will be the day after a session. A prime example is Christmas week I did all easy runs, no sessions and by the end of the week I was running 9:00min/m at the same HR & RPE as 9:45-10:00min/m earlier in the week. I think this fits in with P's comment that the overall mileage and number of sessions that Fauble and elites in general are doing are a factor in their easy run pace.

OOnegative

ariana` wrote: »

I think this fits in with P's comment that the overall mileage and number of sessions that Fauble and elites in general are doing are a factor in their easy run pace.

Say a lay runner like any of us here does a standard week of two sessions, long run and rest easy pace. They’re a 19min 5k person. Say this runner nails his sessions in the appropriate range for his race times but then goes out and runs his easy stuff sub 7.30min pace. Are they gaining anything by running their easy pace this fast? I think running there easy pace this fast has a negative effect on the training they have done as they are not giving the body enough time to recover and let the sessions take effect.

I think lads/ladies could gain a lot more fitness wise if they slowed down a tad on easy days(include myself in this at times). Of course ego comes into play with some people but that’s a different discussion.

That’s the way I view it anyway and not for one minute am I claiming I am correct, many many ways to skin a cat

adrian522

Ego is a huge part of it, see it on Strava every day. "Ultra slow recovery run" at 7:xx per mile and the HR tells the real story.

Swashbuckler

Yeah in the example you use above B I think you're right. Certainly for a 19min 5k person. I'd disagree if it was a 16min 5k person.

Personally I never have an easy day where my pace is sub 7.30min/mile. Even on here I dont see it that much but you follow a lot more logs than me.

OOnegative

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Yeah in the example you use above B I think you're right. Certainly for a 19min 5k person. I'd disagree if it was a 16min 5k person.

Personally I never have an easy day where my pace is sub 7.30min/mile. Even on here I dont see it that much but you follow a lot more logs than me.

Absolutely P, wouldn’t have issues with a 16min 5k person doing it at all.

OOnegative

adrian522 wrote: »

Ego is a huge part of it, see it on Strava every day. "Ultra slow recovery run" at 7:xx per mile and the HR tells the real story.

Whatever concession I’d give to easy pace, nobody’s recovery pace should be in the 7.xx range!!

Dubh Geannain

OOnegative wrote: »

Whatever concession I’d give to easy pace, nobody’s recovery pace should be in the 7.xx range!!

My recovery jogs in the middle of and at the end of a session would easily fall above 8 min pace but if I go for a recovery run the following day I find it hard to run a pace of 8 min or slower. It usually seems to be in the 7:30-8 range. Perhaps I should just consider them easy as opposed to recovery runs.

OOnegative

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

My recovery jogs in the middle of and at the end of a session would easily fall above 8 min pace but if I go for a recovery run the following day I find it hard to run a pace of 8 min or slower. It usually seems to be in the 7:30-8 range. Perhaps I should just consider them easy as opposed to recovery runs.

We all can run slower N. Someone like yourself who doesn’t do huge mileage could probably get away with it though. As I said what I think isn’t necessarily correct, just my view on things. Your not broken anyway so no need to fix.

Duanington

Swashbuckler wrote: »

The NAZ elite YouTube channel is well worth following. Some great videos on there.

I've debated that whole easy running mantra with myself back and forth as I've seen some runners getting great success despite not following what I'd consider basic principles of running. I'm not sure there's a one size fits all. Seems to me some runners benefit from slightly faster easy runs. Fauble can afford to go that slow on his recovery days as he's probably running 120 mile weeks and three or four sessions. Different story for us amateurs especially those running less volume and sessions who may have less fatigue. But I don't know. I'll probably feel differently tomorrow. Lol

For those runners who you've get great success despite not following those basic principles, what kind of success would they have if the DID follow the basic principles?

I think people dismiss the whole easy jogging aspect way too easily and some can justify it by running some good times, the question still remains though, if they incorporated more easy running over a sustained period of time, what would those times look like.

7.30 min pace to guys like Fauble is easily 9.30 min\mile or slower to a 3 hour marathoner

adrian522

Yep, if Olympic Silver medalists can run 8:30 per mile for recovery then we call all do it.

https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20835578/the-easy-day-pace/

skyblue46

OOnegative wrote: »

We all can run slower N. Someone like yourself who doesn’t do huge mileage could probably get away with it though. As I said what I think isn’t necessarily correct, just my view on things. Your not broken anyway so no need to fix.

I get you on the 'if its not broken' line of thought but you were right in an earlier post where you pointed out that the benefits derived from a session are largely dependent on giving the body the chance to adapt. But to be fair its probably like the S&C question on P's log...none of us (well perhaps one) do everything right to maximise our performance mainly because this is a hobby. Whether its pints/wine/cider, chocolate/trifle/crisps, lack of S&C or running easy/post session days too hard there are so many things we could do better.....if we wanted to suck the enjoyment from it.

Lambay island

skyblue46 wrote: »

I get you on the 'if its not broken' line of thought but you were right in an earlier post where you pointed out that the benefits derived from a session is largely dependent on giving the body the chance to adapt. But to be fair its probably like the S&C question on P's log...none of us (well perhaps one) do everything right to maximise our performance mainly because this is a hobby. Whether its pints/wine/cider, chocolate/trifle/crisps, lack of S&C or running easy/post session days too hard there are so many things we could do better.....if we wanted to suck the enjoyment from it.

agh, I have a thirst on me now!

Duanington

OOnegative wrote: »

Say a lay runner like any of us here does a standard week of two sessions, long run and rest easy pace. They’re a 19min 5k person. Say this runner nails his sessions in the appropriate range for his race times but then goes out and runs his easy stuff sub 7.30min pace. Are they gaining anything by running their easy pace this fast? I think running there easy pace this fast has a negative effect on the training they have done as they are not giving the body enough time to recover and let the sessions take effect.

I think lads/ladies could gain a lot more fitness wise if they slowed down a tad on easy days(include myself in this at times). Of course ego comes into play with some people but that’s a different discussion.

That’s the way I view it anyway and not for one minute am I claiming I am correct, many many ways to skin a cat

I actually think there is a time and a place for this "easy" runs that are sub 7.30 in between sessions, not all year around and not for everyone but that's probably the problem you're referring to, a lot of people run at that pace because they can, not because they should.

OOnegative

Duanington wrote: »

I actually think there is a time and a place for this "easy" runs that are sub 7.30 in between sessions, not all year around and not for everyone but that's probably the problem you're referring to, a lot of people run at that pace because they can, not because they should.

L was fond of throwing a Steady run at 7.xx pace after a long run or session alright and while I see it’s purpose & effects in that instance, it was then back to your proper easy pace for the easy days. It’s a subject that could be debated all day and it’s interesting to see others take on it.