What's with junkies drinking Yops all the time?

kikilarue2

GarIT wrote: »

It's unrelated to the topic but I passed a guy curled up on his side sleeping in an alleyway at 7 in the morning, wearing the brand new Yeezys, I think they were going for around €750 at the time. They could have been knock offs or he might not have been homeless just drunk or high. But I was wondering what was going on there.

Please don't judge homeless people if they have nice clothes. I used to do soup runs that would also distribute donated clothes, and homeless people were very reluctant to take anything "too nice" for that reason.

policarp

Has there been a survey into what "Junkies" use? Apart from drugs, who knows what these unfortunate people have to survive on?
"Yop" might be their breakfast, lunch and tea.

JustAThought

I remember chitchattimg to a security gaurd in a major supermarket chain in the xity centre - he said yops and yoghurts were the biggest volume of items stolen by junkies - their cost was low so they knew the store wouldn't prosecute, and it was the only/best thing they could ingeat because herion was so hard on the stomach it soothed it. Apparently magnums were next in theft popularity. Didnt ask if that was a junkie desire or randomers.

skooterblue2

JustAThought wrote: »

I remember chitchattimg to a security gaurd in a major supermarket chain in the xity centre - he said yops and yoghurts were the biggest volume of items stolen by junkies - their cost was low so they knew the store wouldn't prosecute, and it was the only/best thing they could ingeat because herion was so hard on the stomach it soothed it. Apparently magnums were next in theft popularity. Didnt ask if that was a junkie desire or randomers.

Well if it was the one at the end of Talbot Street then we know which one it is. Why do they stock it if Junkies are stealing it? I used to buy 2 big ones a day because I was too busy to take a lunch break at work when I started.

Boom_Bap

Kit Kats used to be the second highest stolen item from shops behind Gillette razor blades.


They junkies used to rob the kit kats for the tin foil. That's why kit kats no longer have tin foil. Junkies.

skooterblue2

Boom_Bap wrote: »

They junkies used to rob the kit kats for the tin foil. That's why kit kats no longer have tin foil. Junkies.

Thank you junkies, you just robbed another part of my childhood I cannot share with my children. I used to love scoring the tinfoil with my nail before snapping off a finger of Kitkat. Now I cannot snap the chocolate because they have changed the recipe, Less milk and cocoa solid and more vegetable fat and sucrose!
How will our children ever read Roald Dahl with any understanding of the wonder of good chocolate and tasty sweets?

Autecher

I was in The Square Tallaght yesterday and I saw this junkie fella having a fight with his girlfriend. Nothing unusual there of course except the girlfriend was a stunning, and I mean drop dead gorgeous, French woman. She had what I assume was their baby in a pram and was chasing after him saying "sorry, I'm sorry, wait for me!" while he was saying "fúck off, I don't want to talk you, go home you fúcking bítch". He eventually decided to let her stay with him but she had to carry the bag he had which she reefed of him such was her desire to please him. When they walked off he was still giving her abuse and she was just taking it.
It was such a strange thing to witness. A big muscly guy went over at one point to try to intervene but the junkie was so aggressive towards him that the muscly guy walked away.
Most of the junkie girlfriends that I see are junkies themselves and dressed accordingly but I will never understand what this stunning looking woman was doing with that loser.
'Tis a funny old world we live in.

Deebles McBeebles

He obviously has that certain je ne sais quoi, A.

Autecher

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

He obviously has that certain je ne sais quoi, A.

I think he has that certain je ne sais stttooooorrryyybuuudddd you have you got any spaarare chaaaange so I can get a hostellll for the night dyaknoowwhhattimeeeeeaaaan mmmmaaaaannnnn

skooterblue2

Autecher wrote: »

I was in The Square Tallaght yesterday and I saw this junkie fella having a fight with his girlfriend. Nothing unusual there of course except the girlfriend was a stunning, and I mean drop dead gorgeous, French woman........................
Most of the junkie girlfriends that I see are junkies themselves and dressed accordingly but I will never understand what this stunning looking woman was doing with that loser.
'Tis a funny old world we live in.

The Junkie is a strange kind that attracts another strange kind, the "enabler". They are usually trying to save this individual because they "failed" (erroneous logic) to save someone else or because of unconditional love.

pappyodaniel

I used to have a great deal of sympathy for heroin addicts, that was until one, an old friend of mine who I was helping out, ripped me off. Now they are all junkies to me and I wouldn't waste my time on them.

corner of hells

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Kit Kats used to be the second highest stolen item from shops behind Gillette razor blades.


They junkies used to rob the kit kats for the tin foil. That's why kit kats no longer have tin foil. Junkies.

Correctamundo Mr Bap , though addicts who smoke heroin can access foil specially manufactured for smoking heroin for the discerning addict.

Regular tin foil that you cook your roast chicken is full of chemicals that are released when "chasing the ol dragon".

Some chemicals good , some chemicals bad .

Sonny noggs

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Kit Kats used to be the second highest stolen item from shops behind Gillette razor blades.


They junkies used to rob the kit kats for the tin foil. That's why kit kats no longer have tin foil. Junkies.

Tell them to start nicking the 2 finger multipacks, they still use tin foil.

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Thank you junkies, you just robbed another part of my childhood I cannot share with my children. I used to love scoring the tinfoil with my nail before snapping off a finger of Kitkat. Now I cannot snap the chocolate because they have changed the recipe, Less milk and cocoa solid and more vegetable fat and sucrose!
How will our children ever read Roald Dahl with any understanding of the wonder of good chocolate and tasty sweets?

Is this a joke?

You can not seriously be comparing a life of crisis-level addiction to your inability to share kit kat nostalgia.

skooterblue2

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Is this a joke?

You can not seriously be comparing a life of crisis-level addiction to your inability to share kit kat nostalgia.

You cannot seriously be comparing my lifelong Kit-Kat addiction to a junkies inability to manage an A-class drug

Tamara tamara

It's kefir they are drinking down my way lately.

skooterblue2

corner of hells wrote: »

Regular tin foil that you cook your roast chicken is full of chemicals that are released when "chasing the ol dragon".

Some chemicals good , some chemicals bad .

Never underestimate the wisdom of the Junkie

skooterblue2

Tamara tamara wrote: »

It's kefir they are drinking down my way lately.

Once they get on that stuff, they are on it for life. Plus they are happier and healthier as well

Boom_Bap

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Kit Kats used to be the second highest stolen item from shops behind Gillette razor blades.

Is it the drug addicts stealing the razor blades also, or what's that about?

I would have thought alcohol would would be the most coveted item for the garden variety shoplifter/addict.

Boom_Bap

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Is it the drug addicts stealing the razor blades also, or what's that about?

I would have thought alcohol would would be the most coveted item for the garden variety shoplifter/addict.

They were part of it, you could either buy them for €13 in the shop or buy them off the lad that pinched them for €5. Easy money for some people, I think that they are still in security cases in shops these days.

Boom_Bap

Boom_Bap wrote: »

They were part of it, you could either buy them for €13 in the shop or buy them off the lad that pinched them for €5. Easy money for some people, I think that they are still in security cases in shops these days.

When you go somewhere like Barcelona you'll see local enterprising types selling cans of alcohol or even bottles or wine near the clubs, after hours, with a very keen mark-up.

I don't know why our local lads don't go in for this trade. If they nick a bottle of wine, or even buy the cheap stuff for six quid, they'd easily make ten, fifteen euro from some lushes on Camden Street or even a gang of kids.

Easy money for them if they want it.

Edit. I just remembered there's a chap who does home deliveries of alcohol after-hours, for unanticipated house parties. But he'd be at the larger end of the scale, perhaps that's for group orders only.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But he'd be at the larger end of the scale, perhaps that's for group orders only.

The Yop drinking brethren may act just a tad impatient when the order came.

Thelonious Monk

Heroin addicts seem to love Yop, Sundaes from McDonalds, and tea. I'm not sure they're capable of consuming much else. Although that doesn't explain how a lot of the female ones are so fat.
As for how some people talk about them in this thread, there but for the Grace of God go you. Check your privilege!

Autecher

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Heroin addicts seem to love Yop, Sundaes from McDonalds, and tea. I'm not sure they're capable of consuming much else. Although that doesn't explain how a lot of the female ones are so fat.
As for how some people talk about them in this thread, there but for the Grace of God go you. Check your privilege!

Privilege shmivilege! Look at this post I posted in a different thread a few months ago in which I use the exact phrase There but for the grace of God go I. I could have easily become a junkie myself having had the same life as loads of people around me. It is actually quite easy to not be a heroin addict, just don’t take heroin and the potential problem works itself out.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110698448&postcount=18

grimeire

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

They always have lovely runners as well.

i kid you not. I seen a guy wearing a lovely pair of AIRMAX a few weeks back. After I got a closer I realised they were not AIRMAX but AIRNAX.



AIRNAX!!! I wonder did he know.

B.A._Baracus

I was once told Methadone is sweet and that's why you see junkies not only with Yop but coca cola and other sweet things.

BorneTobyWilde

They can't read very well and think it's a drink for them only, ''Yob''

Thelonious Monk

Autecher wrote: »

Privilege shmivilege! Look at this post I posted in a different thread a few months ago in which I use the exact phrase There but for the grace of God go I. I could have easily become a junkie myself having had the same life as loads of people around me. It is actually quite easy to not be a heroin addict, just don’t take heroin and the potential problem works itself out.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110698448&postcount=18

Do you really think these people are happy though? Most are from poor backgrounds with horrible families if they have a family at all. Probably most people in hard circumstances get on with it but some don't and they need help. Hugs not drugs.

greenttc

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Sundaes from McDonalds,

mcdonalds havent made these in while, devastating!

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Heroin addicts seem to love Yop, Sundaes from McDonalds, and tea. I'm not sure they're capable of consuming much else. Although that doesn't explain how a lot of the female ones are so fat.
As for how some people talk about them in this thread, there but for the Grace of God go you. Check your privilege!

Rough sleepers / addicts who beg for money actually eat quite well, which is one small mercy.

Between people buying them sandwiches, and soup runs, and places like Avoca giving them sandwiches, the fare is decent. There are also a number if charities who run food stalls for them (with good home made, hot food). If if wasn't for the heroin they'd be like ploughmen.

Autecher

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Do you really think these people are happy though? Most are from poor backgrounds with horrible families if they have a family at all. Probably most people in hard circumstances get on with it but some don't and they need help. Hugs not drugs.

No I don't think they are happy. Why would I think that? Being a heroin addict is a miserable existence. Also there are a lot of assumptions in your post that are equal parts true and stereotype. There are people from horrible backgrounds/families that don't become addicts and people from that come from great backgrounds/families that do.
You say they need help and I agree to an extent, but you can only help people that are willing to help themselves and most junkies I've ever known are not willing to help themselves.
Hugs not drugs must be you on the wind-up surely?
If you wanna hug junkies you go right ahead, I wouldn't recommend it as it would be a terrible decision to make but each to their own Thelonious! :P

Autecher

Autecher wrote: »

You say they need help and I agree to an extent, but you can only help people that are willing to help themselves and most junkies I've ever known are not willing to help themselves.

Unwilling?

That's a very bold statement. I know an addict very well who is in recovery. Our initial attempts at trying to coax her into recovery consisted of us telling her only only she could help herself and to try harder to give it up.

That was stupid advice, really. Unless you give someone the skills and strength, they can't fix themselves. It's a bit like standing on the bank of a lake where a person, who is unable to swim, is drowning. Shouts of "try harder" or "you shouldn't have gone in" are unbelievably unhelpful.

There aren't the resources out there to help heroin addicts. There aren't enough detox beds for all the heroin addicts around, Grafton Street at this moment, let alone the southside, let alone the entire country. A lot of the ones that do exist are run by charity. We ain't bothered.

Autecher

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Unwilling?

That's a very bold statement. I know an addict very well who is in recovery. Our initial attempts at trying to coax her into recovery consisted of us telling her only only she could help herself and to try harder to give it up.

That was stupid advice, really. Unless you give someone the skills and strength, they can't fix themselves. It's a bit like standing on the bank of a lake where a person, who is unable to swim, is drowning. Shouts of "try harder" or "you shouldn't have gone in" are unbelievably unhelpful.

There aren't the resources out there to help heroin addicts. There aren't enough detox beds for all the heroin addicts around, Grafton Street at this moment, let alone the southside, let alone the entire country. A lot of the ones that do exist are run by charity. We ain't bothered.

I don't think it's a bold statement at all. You have known 1 junkie (though obviously you may have known more than 1) where as I have know probably dozens now including my own brother. My brother and several others I know were given help so many times it would make your head spin. Focusing just on my brother though, he has been to rehab at least 3 times I can remember which was of course paid for twice by my parents & once by me. As I said earlier in the thread he has been on methadone for I don't even know how long anymore and he is still a junkie (and a cúnt). He has been to therapists that were paid for the the government somehow as part of some scheme, they stopped seeing him because he kept not turning up for his appointments. He used to go to another therapist that was paid for by my poor parents but they caught him trying to steal the receptionists purse once and rang the guards on him. He has been arrested and been in court I don't know how many times at this stage including an upcoming court date for harassment of a Gardaí. He has had the shít kicked out of him probably half a dozen times from peple he has owed money to. It's obviously possible to kick the habit as it has been done by thousands of people your friend included, but there are lots more people like my brother who get all the chances, get arrested, get beat up etc... but still won't put the work in to try to clean up.
I consider myself an empathetic and helpful person, I really do think I am a nice person but when it comes to junkies I am done. I do sometimes feel bad for them when I see them especially in the street when it's really cold outside but they do not help themselves at all as far as I'm concerned except for people like your friend who would be in the minority of them in my opinion.

Autecher

Autecher wrote: »

I don't think it's a bold statement at all. You have known 1 junkie (though obviously you may have known more than 1) where as I have know probably dozens now including my own brother.

In my case the addiction of the person I know wasn't heroin. I'm talking about addiction in general and how it isn't as simple as just convincing them, or them not being bothered to get better. That isn't it at all.

My brother and several others I know were given help so many times it would make your head spin. Focusing just on my brother though, he has been to rehab at least 3 times I can remember which was of course paid for twice by my parents & once by me. As I said earlier in the thread he has been on methadone for I don't even know how long anymore and he is still a junkie (and a cúnt). He has been to therapists that were paid for the the government somehow as part of some scheme, they stopped seeing him because he kept not turning up for his appointments. He used to go to another therapist that was paid for by my poor parents but they caught him trying to steal the receptionists purse once and rang the guards on him. He has been arrested and been in court I don't know how many times at this stage including an upcoming court date for harassment of a Gardaí. He has had the shít kicked out of him probably half a dozen times from peple he has owed money to. It's obviously possible to kick the habit as it has been done by thousands of people your friend included, but there are lots more people like my brother who get all the chances, get arrested, get beat up etc... but still won't put the work in to try to clean up.
I consider myself an empathetic and helpful person, I really do think I am a nice person but when it comes to junkies I am done. I do sometimes feel bad for them when I see them especially in the street when it's really cold outside but they do not help themselves at all as far as I'm concerned except for people like your friend who would be in the minority of them in my opinion.

The fact that people behave badly when they are in the grip of an addiction doesn't make them cnuts.

What was he like as a boy? Did he always want to be an addict when he grew up? From what you're saying, he's a goner and his personality has probably changed iredeemably. Maybe no amount of trying can bring him back, no matter how much he wants it.

I tell you one thing for sure, though, if he could swap places he'd surely do it in a heartbeat. I bet you wouldn't, because you probably know it's impossible to come back

Spon Farmer

GarIT wrote: »

It's unrelated to the topic but I passed a guy curled up on his side sleeping in an alleyway at 7 in the morning, wearing the brand new Yeezys, I think they were going for around €750 at the time. They could have been knock offs or he might not have been homeless just drunk or high. But I was wondering what was going on there.

I don't know what Yeezys are and never been one for trendy clothes but I can guess when someone has shelled out an out on clothes.

Such a person tried begging from me a few weeks and I actually looked like I could be homeless at the time.:rolleyes:

Spon Farmer

I didn't know Yop was a junkie thing.

I haven't had it in years and keep forgetting when I'm in Dunnes.

Autecher

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

In my case the addiction of the person I know wasn't heroin. I'm talking about addiction in general and how it isn't as simple as just convincing them, or them not being bothered to get better. That isn't it at all.

Let me just say first on reading my post back the line "You have known 1 junkie" reads a bit condescending when it was not intended that way at all so apologies if it seemed that way.

It's as simple as them convincing themselves in my opinion. If after all the arrests and kickings etc... you can't convince yourself that you are living the wrong kind of life then no words or actions from anybody else will have an effect on you, ie you can't help someone who won't help themselves.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The fact that people behave badly when they are in the grip of an addiction doesn't make them cnuts.

What was he like as a boy? Did he always want to be an addict when he grew up? From what you're saying, he's a goner and his personality has probably changed iredeemably. Maybe no amount of trying can bring him back, no matter how much he wants it.

I tell you one thing for sure, though, if he could swap places he'd surely do it in a heartbeat. I bet you wouldn't, because you probably know it's impossible to come back

Have you read the whole thread? I did say earlier in it that he was a cúnt before he started taking drugs and he's still a cúnt now. I've no doubt he would swap places with me, I'm no big deal of course but I manage in life. I have a steady job, a car and I have just bought my own apartment and I'm sure he would love to be in that position. The thing is though he had many chances to be in a similar position, he is good with his hands like my da is so my da got him a job on the building sites with him (pre recession) after my brother was kicked out of school. He did the job for about 3 months but stopped because he hated getting up at 5 in the morning. My da got him a different job with another company which was a 9-5 and he lasted less than 2 months in that. He is without doubt the laziest person I have ever known. He refuses to put the work in required to kick the habit so he never will.
And I would not want to trade places with him, I have never taken heroin so I know this will sound stupid but I truly do believe I could kick the habit if I were to have woken up as him today. Who knows what would happen from there but I would be absolutely obsessed with quitting and wouldn't stop trying until I did.


Also if I woke up as him today that would make for a terrible & depressing remake of Freaky Friday!

Spon Farmer

Autecher wrote: »

Let me just say first on reading my post back the line "You have known 1 junkie" reads a bit condescending when it was not intended that way at all so apologies if it seemed that way.

It's as simple as them convincing themselves in my opinion. If after all the arrests and kickings etc... you can't convince yourself that you are living the wrong kind of life then no words or actions from anybody else will have an effect on you, ie you can't help someone who won't help themselves.



Have you read the whole thread? I did say earlier in it that he was a cúnt before he started taking drugs and he's still a cúnt now. I've no doubt he would swap places with me, I'm no big deal of course but I manage in life. I have a steady job, a car and I have just bought my own apartment and I'm sure he would love to be in that position. The thing is though he had many chances to be in a similar position, he is good with his hands like my da is so my da got him a job on the building sites with him (pre recession) after my brother was kicked out of school. He did the job for about 3 months but stopped because he hated getting up at 5 in the morning. My da got him a different job with another company which was a 9-5 and he lasted less than 2 months in that. He is without doubt the laziest person I have ever known. He refuses to put the work in required to kick the habit so he never will.
And I would not want to trade places with him, I have never taken heroin so I know this will sound stupid but I truly do believe I could kick the habit if I were to have woken up as him today. Who knows what would happen from there but I would be absolutely obsessed with quitting and wouldn't stop trying until I did.


Also if I woke up as him today that would make for a terrible & depressing remake of Freaky Friday!

Doesn't sound stupid. Lots of people recover from addiction because they want to.

skooterblue2

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Is it the drug addicts stealing the razor blades also, or what's that about?

I would have thought alcohol would would be the most coveted item for the garden variety shoplifter/addict.

Disposable blades are the diamonds of the convenience store world. High value, low volume and easy to resell. My former land lord used to rob them wholesale from a Large grocery store in the 90's until someone in accounting saw the numbers being pilfered and decided they should be sold from behind the counted.

Alcohol is bulky and difficult to conceal in comparison and there is much more security around the Off licence area. Just go with the low hanging fruit idea.

Autecher

Autecher wrote: »

It's as simple as them convincing themselves in my opinion.

I have never taken heroin so I know this will sound stupid but I truly do believe I could kick the habit if I were to have woken up as him today.

Most neuroscientists see addiction as a brain disease -- I have only heard of one who doesn't, and he could be fairly called a renegade in that field of study.

I am not an expert on this by any means, but like yourself I have a passing interest in it because of a personal relationship, in fact a few personal relationships with addicted people.

If addiction were solely a question of willpower, giving up would be a fairly straightforward thing. Any addicts I know are incredibly strong-willed people, I would say stronger-willed than the average person. This is seems, is substantiated by research.

The brain-disease model of addiction is quite a strong argument in favour of the belief that addiction is not a moral failure, no more than depression, anorexia or OCD (which were, like many illnesses, once thought to result from moral weakness). Scientists now know that addiction alters the brain's plasticity and changes neural networks which would cause any rational-thinking person to cease consuming the substance. Academic studies like those cited below, which are almost universally accepted by neurobiologists, demonstrate in various different ways that diminished self-control is a result of changes in the brain that are biochemical and biological in nature.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17070107
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15808502

Every human being only has a limited capacity for willpower. The best way of getting an addicted person to stop drinking, gambling, or taking drugs, is to initially remove the need for willpower to be exerted (surround them with a secure environment away from such activities), to allow the brain to recover (i.e. a stint in rehab, ideally), and thereafter to engage them in whatever form of therapy is best suited to that person.

The idea that a 'junkie', so-called, can just wake up in a cardboard box and get himself sober by dint of will and common sense is pure fantasy.

skooterblue2

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The idea that a 'junkie', so-called, can just wake up in a cardboard box and get himself sober by dint of will and common sense is pure fantasy.

Hence my phrase "when the needle goes in the soul goes out". Cut away what is dead and nourish what you can save. Focus on youth projects and after hours and you will get some much more productive results.

Atoms for Peace

I've seen the needle
and the damage done
A little part of it
in everyone

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Hence my phrase "when the needle goes in the soul goes out". Cut away what is dead and nourish what you can save. Focus on youth projects and after hours and you will get some much more productive results.

It needn't be a question of either/or.

We can chew gum and walk straight. Most of the rsources should be spent on prevention, and that is the case already. But we should be doing something to get people into detox and rehab.

Every day, addicts are turned away from detox and rehab beds because there is an incredibly tiny number of public beds in the state. About 30 for men, I think, fewer for women.

There are far greater resources poured into some state visits than there are into annual detox and rehab for addicts in public/subsidised beds. If you don't have private insurance, your chances of recovery are almost negligible.

Most recovering addicts are middle class, partly because they have resources. And by the way, this course of treatment is a lot cheaper than a similar hospital visit. A lot cheaper. As a society, we just do not care about treating addicts.

corner of hells

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Hence my phrase "when the needle goes in the soul goes out". Cut away what is dead and nourish what you can save. Focus on youth projects and after hours and you will get some much more productive results.

It needn't be a question of either/or.

We can chew gum and walk straight. Most of the rsources should be spent on prevention, and that is the case already. But we should be doing something to get people into detox and rehab.

Every day, addicts are turned away from detox and rehab beds because there is an incredibly tiny number of public beds in the state. About 30 for men, I think, fewer for women.

There are far greater resources poured into some state visits than there are into annual detox and rehab for addicts in public/subsidised beds. If you don't have private insurance, your chances of recovery are almost negligible.

Most recovering addicts are middle class, partly because they have resources. And by the way, this course of treatment is a lot cheaper than a similar hospital visit. A lot cheaper. As a society, we just do not care about treating addicts.

It's not that addicts are turned away or refused beds , getting to the point where he is ready for admission is a prolonged process. If hes ready for admission with all his preparatory work done and aftercare in place , you will eventually get a bed.

corner of hells

corner of hells wrote: »

It's not that addicts are turned away or refused beds , getting to the point where he is ready for admission is a prolonged process. If hes ready for admission with all his preparatory work done and aftercare in place , you will eventually get a bed.

That can include a requirement to begin their detox in the same community that is absolutely riddled with drugs. That isn't very unusual.

Either way, when someone is genuinely ready to commence recovery, and they knock on the door (metaphorically speaking) and are told 'start it yourself and come back later', that's a major flaw in the design of the process.

We should be delighted when people finally admit their powerlessness over their addiction and ask for help. But when they ask for help, we must to stop telling them that the Inn is full. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for addiction facilities to turn people away, Coolmine does this every day, apparently.

Nobody can recover from addiction by themselves. Especially if they're on the streets, especially if they don't have scientifically proven supports.

corner of hells

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

corner of hells wrote: »

It's not that addicts are turned away or refused beds , getting to the point where he is ready for admission is a prolonged process. If hes ready for admission with all his preparatory work done and aftercare in place , you will eventually get a bed.

That can include a requirement to begin their detox in the same community that is absolutely riddled with drugs. That isn't very unusual.

Either way, when someone is genuinely ready to commence recovery, and they knock on the door (metaphorically speaking) and are told 'start it yourself and come back later', that's a major flaw in the design of the process.

We should be delighted when people finally admit their powerlessness over their addiction and ask for help. But when they ask for help, we must to stop telling them that the Inn is full. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for addiction facilities to turn people away, Coolmine does this every day, apparently.

Nobody can recover from addiction by themselves. Especially if they're on the streets, especially if they don't have scientifically proven supports.

Coalmine doesn't, it's not just a matter of calling to the door and asking to be admitted.
No addict is told start it yourself, there is support there but it's a long process to access the residential part of treatment.

corner of hells

corner of hells wrote: »

Coalmine doesn't, it's not just a matter of calling to the door and asking to be admitted.
No addict is told start it yourself, there is support there but it's a long process to access the residential part of treatment.

It's not a long process to ask to be admitted to residential treatment if you have private health insurance. You phone them up, you give your insurance details, you could be there that very day.

Coolmine has a waiting list.

wes16586

YFlyer wrote: »

I'm on my phone so can't put up the Savage Eye clip. Somebody else please?

https://youtu.be/pLsD2_I_Z-U

corner of hells

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

corner of hells wrote: »

Coalmine doesn't, it's not just a matter of calling to the door and asking to be admitted.
No addict is told start it yourself, there is support there but it's a long process to access the residential part of treatment.

It's not a long process to ask to be admitted to residential treatment if you have private health insurance. You phone them up, you give your insurance details, you could be there that very day.

Coolmine has a waiting list.

I work with addicts, for me to get a heroin into and through treatment starts like this.
Get from heroin onto methadone, stabilise, get down to 50mls or less .
If you're abusing or prescribed tablets address that too.Thats a hell of a process.
Now give your four clean urines .
All the while engaging with your doctor , support workers ,taking part in stabilisation and making sure you are medically capable of a detox.You may have to attend up to ten counselling sessions too.
That is a long process.

You're admission to residential, depending on where you will be up to 6 or 8 weeks detox and 14 to 16 rehab.

Afterwards and this is where a huge amount of private patients fail is aftercare , you need at least 2 years .
You're correct , if you have health insurance or money you can buy your treatment but without preparation before and then aftercare you're kidding yourself.
You mention Coolmine , its reputation precedes it , it's not just its residential, it has its outreach , stabilisation, family support , women and children and so on.
But it's not the only residential treatment.

corner of hells

corner of hells wrote: »

I work with addicts, for me to get a heroin into and through treatment starts like this.
Get from heroin onto methadone, stabilise, get down to 50mls or less .
If you're abusing or prescribed tablets address that too.Thats a hell of a process.
Now give your four clean urines .
All the while engaging with your doctor , support workers ,taking part in stabilisation and making sure you are medically capable of a detox.You may have to attend up to ten counselling sessions too.
That is a long process.

You're admission to residential, depending on where you will be up to 6 or 8 weeks detox and 14 to 16 rehab.

I happen to know that through someone who, if you also work there, must be a colleague of yours

That's not best practice. Best practice is that once a patient wants rehab, he or she goes in and detoxes over a week or so, then rehabilitates. Coolmine is famous for its long rehabilitation process over months if not years.

But let's not kid ourselves. Coolmine isn't limiting its own numbers on rehab beds. That's limited by a woefully under-funded investment.

I don't know anyone who's been to Coolmine but I do have an acquaintance there, and my understanding is that they're great once you're in, but the struggle is to stabilise in a community in which drug activity is taking place, and where housing is seriously problematic. It's not a fair playing pitch.

I have people in my life whom, if they didn't have private insurance, would absolutely be dead today. A logical extension of that is that there are families who have lost loved ones in this country for no good reason, except that they couldn't afford healthcare.