I thought I would never say this…

is_that_so

_blaaz wrote: »

Tbf im from constituency where varadkar led the attack on consultants accusing them of lying (and also vibe they want to close hospital locally)


So might be on more extreme end....but some members refused to canvass/help em.last time over this....they are shedding votes and doing nothing to address it....is a damnation upon its leadership??

Leo will be fine. He might drop a bit but constituents do like to have the Taoiseach in their constituency. Even dropping by 25% from 20% to 15% gets him a seat.

is_that_so

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Lads please, just don't vote for FF and FG. We've had too long of mismanagement of funds. I really think the independents and Social Democrats and whatever other clowns are running for office can do any worse. It's top civil servants that run the country anyway these eejit ministers and TDs just poke around and mess things up trying to please their constituents and themselves. Let's get them out finally. FFFG out!!!

Independents had to be brow beaten into signing up for government. Their natural inclination is to run for the Opposition benches and wheel and deal for votes. The SDs are not a party, just a vehicle for the two ladies to be reelected over and over.

Edgware

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Lads please, just don't vote for FF and FG. We've had too long of mismanagement of funds. I really think the independents and Social Democrats and whatever other clowns are running for office can do any worse. It's top civil servants that run the country anyway these eejit ministers and TDs just poke around and mess things up trying to please their constituents and themselves. Let's get them out finally. FFFG out!!!

Ya. The Healys Rae and the the Shinner hypocrites have a lot of hidden talents

Boom_Bap

Ush1

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I think Ireland really needs to reconsider going in a more socialistic or Communist direction. The neoliberal experiment is clearly not working.

Too much money and jobs?

I see sheep

Anybody who would still vote for either FF / FG is a imbecile.
And people joke about the yanks being stupid for voting for Trump, even worse in Ireland.

EmmetSpiceland

Ush1 wrote: »

Too much money and jobs?

I’d say he loves a good queue, U.

is_that_so

I see sheep wrote: »

Anybody who would still vote for either FF / FG is a imbecile.
And people joke about the yanks being stupid for voting for Trump, even worse in Ireland.

Ah spoken like a true democrat. Well done!

is_that_so

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I think Ireland really needs to reconsider going in a more socialistic or Communist direction. The neoliberal experiment is clearly not working.

So who on our political spectrum are we looking at? And how are you going to persuade all those "stupid" FF & FG voters to go for it?

Thelonious Monk

Edgware wrote: »

Ya. The Healys Rae and the the Shinner hypocrites have a lot of hidden talents

I honestly forgot sinn fein existed. Obvs don't vote for them!

I see sheep

is_that_so wrote: »

Ah spoken like a true democrat. Well done!

Thanks

Woke Hogan

is_that_so wrote: »

So who on our political spectrum are we looking at? And how are you going to persuade all those "stupid" FF & FG voters to go for it?

Have you responded to everyone who’s posted in this thread? Calm down, would you. Have a glass of milk.

kikilarue2

FG need a good spell on opposition benches to learn some humility. And to gain some more actual experience of government. Initially I liked the idea of a young cabinet, but it's become abundantly clear that Harris, Murphy and Varadkar are not experienced enough to manage their portfolios. They should all have spent more time in junior ministries and less senior positions to learn the workings of government. Simon Coveney and Richard Bruton are the best of that cabinet, and the ones you hear from least.

FF have quite a shallow front bench. Who would be Minister for Finance, Health, Education, Defence? They are pushing Lisa Chambers and Stephen Donnelly a lot recently, both also relatively inexperienced. Willie O'Dea is retiring age.

Actually I just looked it up:

Leader and Spokesperson on Northern Ireland Micheál Martin TD
Fianna Fáil Whip Michael Moynihan TD
Spokesperson on Finance Michael McGrath TD
Spokesperson on Public Expenditure and Reform Dara Calleary TD
Spokesperson on Foreign Affairs and Trade Darragh O’Brien TD
Spokesperson on Regional Development, Rural Affairs and the Gaeltacht Éamon Ó Cuív TD
Spokesperson on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation Niall Collins TD
Spokesperson on Education and Skills Thomas Byrne TD
Spokesperson on Social Protection Willie O’Dea TD
Spokesperson on Housing, Planning and Local Government Barry Cowen TD
Spokesperson on Agriculture, Food and the Marine Charlie McConalogue TD
Spokesperson on Transport, Tourism and Sport Robert Troy TD
Spokesperson on Communications, Environment and Natural Resources Timmy Dooley TD
Spokesperson on Health Billy Kelleher TD
Spokesperson on Children and Youth Affairs Anne Rabbitte TD
Spokesperson on Justice and Equality Jim O’Callaghan TD
Spokesperson on Defence Lisa Chambers TD
Spokesperson on Arts and Heritage Niamh Smyth TD
Spokesperson on Disability Margaret Murphy O’Mahony TD
Spokesperson on Mental Health James Browne TD
Spokesperson on Dublin John Lahart TD
Fianna Fáil Leader in the Seanad Senator Catherine Ardagh

I've barely heard of most of these.

_blaaz

is_that_so wrote: »

Leo will be fine. He might drop a bit but constituents do like to have the Taoiseach in their constituency. Even dropping by 25% from 20% to 15% gets him a seat.

He'll not be next taoiseach....theres no sceanrio where numbers play out that theyve enough numbers

He isnt the deal making type,with ability to put together a coalition(not a fault as such imo)....but unless SF/PBP split the FF vote in alot of constituencies....FG are looking at a 20 seat collaspe next election

is_that_so

Woke Hogan wrote: »

Have you responded to everyone who’s posted in this thread? Calm down, would you. Have a glass of milk.

Nah, just ones that need further probing. You clearly don't have an awful lot more beyond the "vision".

is_that_so

_blaaz wrote: »

He'll not be next taoiseach....theres no sceanrio where numbers play out that theyve enough numbers

He isnt the deal making type,with ability to put together a coalition(not a fault as such imo)....but unless SF/PBP split the FF vote in alot of constituencies....FG are looking at a 20 seat collaspe next election

In all likelihood he won't but events dear boy as they say. Can't see where this 20 seat collapse is going to come from. That would put it below Noonan in 2002 and FF are never going to be popular enough to scoop up such a massive seat bonus. What we may see is politicians coming under pressure in certain constituencies and by virtue of having higher poll support FF picking up a number of seats, but they could come from SF as much as from FG.

MadYaker

She'd be gone and we'd have had a general election if it wasn't for brexit. That's the only reason FF are allowing this continue and I think they're right to do so. We can't have a general election with brexit looming and the gov have done well so far with their steady common sense approach and that needs to continue so for now she has to stay and FG haven't much of a choice. Credit to FF for not playing party politics with this though. They have realised (apart from Timmy Dooley apparantly) that there's more important things at stake and they've put the country ahead of the party which is something their counterparts across the channel seem to have trouble with.

_blaaz

is_that_so wrote: »

In all likelihood he won't but events dear boy as they say. Can't see where this 20 seat collapse is going to come from.

Their shedding in private polls upto 25% from what been their tradional constitunencies??,they are sleepwalking to a bloody nose election,pure head in sand stuff you cant see this.....they have too many marginal seats to be accepting shedding votes the way they are

That would put it below Noonan in 2002 and FF are never going to be popular enough to scoop up such a massive seat bonus. What we may see is politicians coming under pressure in certain constituencies and by virtue of having higher poll support FF picking up a number of seats, but they could come from SF as much as from FG.

The best they can hope.for.is SF splits the FF vote (and vice versa) and neither wins a 2nd seat in a 4/5 seater........FG are aliemating.alot of softer voters by getting into bruising contests with SF,(costing both parties votes btw),while FF pick up.the easier votes by electorate who are put off by 2 groups fighting



Id be suprised if FF dont get 54/55 elected taking roughly same amount off each fg/sf.....seems the obvious endpoint and what fg members i know think will pan out anyway

Ush1

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I’d say he loves a good queue, U.

Nobody does queues like communism once the rationing and hyper inflation kick in.

Edgware

kikilarue2 wrote: »

FG need a good spell on opposition benches to learn some humility. And to gain some more actual experience of government. Initially I liked the idea of a young cabinet, but it's become abundantly clear that Harris, Murphy and Varadkar are not experienced enough to manage their portfolios. They should all have spent more time in junior ministries and less senior positions to learn the workings of government. Simon Coveney and Richard Bruton are the best of that cabinet, and the ones you hear from least.

FF have quite a shallow front bench. Who would be Minister for Finance, Health, Education, Defence? They are pushing Lisa Chambers and Stephen Donnelly a lot recently, both also relatively inexperienced. Willie O'Dea is retiring age.

Actually I just looked it up:

Leader and Spokesperson on Northern Ireland Micheál Martin TD
Fianna Fáil Whip Michael Moynihan TD
Spokesperson on Finance Michael McGrath TD
Spokesperson on Public Expenditure and Reform Dara Calleary TD
Spokesperson on Foreign Affairs and Trade Darragh O’Brien TD
Spokesperson on Regional Development, Rural Affairs and the Gaeltacht Éamon Ó Cuív TD
Spokesperson on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation Niall Collins TD
Spokesperson on Education and Skills Thomas Byrne TD
Spokesperson on Social Protection Willie O’Dea TD
Spokesperson on Housing, Planning and Local Government Barry Cowen TD
Spokesperson on Agriculture, Food and the Marine Charlie McConalogue TD
Spokesperson on Transport, Tourism and Sport Robert Troy TD
Spokesperson on Communications, Environment and Natural Resources Timmy Dooley TD
Spokesperson on Health Billy Kelleher TD
Spokesperson on Children and Youth Affairs Anne Rabbitte TD
Spokesperson on Justice and Equality Jim O’Callaghan TD
Spokesperson on Defence Lisa Chambers TD
Spokesperson on Arts and Heritage Niamh Smyth TD
Spokesperson on Disability Margaret Murphy O’Mahony TD
Spokesperson on Mental Health James Browne TD
Spokesperson on Dublin John Lahart TD
Fianna Fáil Leader in the Seanad Senator Catherine Ardagh

I've barely heard of most of these.

FG dont do humility. Arrogance is bred into them. Thats why they never did and never will be popular across the boards. The Irish people will accept gombeenism, corruption, inefficiency from their politicians but never arrogance

Edgware

MadYaker wrote: »

She'd be gone and we'd have had a general election if it wasn't for brexit. That's the only reason FF are allowing this continue and I think they're right to do so. We can't have a general election with brexit looming and the gov have done well so far with their steady common sense approach and that needs to continue so for now she has to stay and FG haven't much of a choice. Credit to FF for not playing party politics with this though. They have realised (apart from Timmy Dooley apparantly) that there's more important things at stake and they've put the country ahead of the party which is something their counterparts across the channel seem to have trouble with.

The British have voted to leave the E.U. Get over it. Just because Ireland wants to be the good little European lap dog doesn't mean everyone else has to be. Britain never surrendered in the face of threats and they wont now. The E.U. leaders forget history very quickly

Auguste Comte

Edgware wrote: »

The E.U. leaders forget history very quickly

Oh god the irony.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Thread moved to Current Affairs/IMHO

charlietheminxx

Fine Gael have a lot of problems but I cannot believe anyone would advocate voting for Fianna Fail after what they did to this country not so long ago. At the start of the recession they lied repeatedly to the public about how bad things were, about the bailout etc. Aside from the financial mess they made worse, they also sat on what they saw as socially controversial issues like abortion legislation for far too long. They strike me as a party who want to be liked rather than wanting to do what's best for the country.

I hate that we seem to be stuck in a predominantly 2 horse race. Vote for literally anyone else, maybe we could have an interesting coalition without either of them.

McMurphy

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Pretty sure 99% of the users claiming to have “voted for FG but never again” are lying through their teeth.

They've found the perfect party so.

comedown

Some of you need a bit of persepective. Yes, FG aren't perfect,
but FF left this country in an ABSOLUTE STATE.

We've progressed light years economically, culturally and socially in the last decade.
We're no longer seen as a backward nation stuck in the dark ages - quite the opposite.
Just remember, in 2009 Fianna Fail passed a blasphemy law for f*cks sake!
We have naturally intelligent leaders in Varadkar and Coveney, and a great relationship with Europe in the face of bully-boy Boris next door, who is already doing his best to cause problems.
We've come a long way. Why would you want to destroy that?

kikilarue2

comedown wrote: »

Some of you need a bit of persepective. Yes, FG aren't perfect,
but FF left this country in an ABSOLUTE STATE.

We've progressed light years economically, culturally and socially in the last decade.
We're no longer seen as a backward nation stuck in the dark ages - quite the opposite.
Just remember, in 2009 Fianna Fail passed a blasphemy law for f*cks sake!
We have naturally intelligent leaders in Varadkar and Coveney, and a great relationship with Europe in the face of bully-boy Boris next door, who is already doing his best to cause problems.
We've come a long way. Why would you want to destroy that?

Because while FG have represented us reasonably well in Europe, domestically they have been a disaster, particularly in housing and health where they have put two inexperienced and ill-equipped politicians who are very clearly out of their depth.

Vote SD and Green I’d say.

_blaaz

comedown wrote: »

Some of you need a bit of persepective. Yes, FG aren't perfect,
but FF left this country in an ABSOLUTE STATE.

We've progressed light years economically, culturally and socially in the last decade.
We're no longer seen as a backward nation stuck in the dark ages - quite the opposite.
Just remember, in 2009 Fianna Fail passed a blasphemy law for f*cks sake!
We have naturally intelligent leaders in Varadkar and Coveney, and a great relationship with Europe in the face of bully-boy Boris next door, who is already doing his best to cause problems.
We've come a long way. Why would you want to destroy that?

Tbh they just dont seem to be able to sort basic enough domestic problems......we have record breaking levels of homelessness every month (in the 50s and ireland on its knees,we could build social housing,but not now...wtf??)

and they are only ever telling half truths about virtually everything they and i dislike being taken for a mug or the feeling i am being tbh


Whether FF are answer or not.....idk but i dont put up with being made a fool of and lied to in work or off wans i be dating,il not put up with it off people looking for votes off me

El_Duderino 09

odyssey06 wrote: »

FG are starting to stink... something seems to rot parties from the head the longer they are in office. We will probably have to hope the wilderness years has put some manners on FF and they will at least be fresh for a while. Until the cycle starts again.

I actually can't stand this idea that being in opposition will "put manners" on a party like FF. The reason for the swing between parties is because familiarity breeds contempt. FG has ko choice but to take responsibility for the time it's in office. With the obvious gray area when they take over and blame things on the previous government. The tories are in government for a a decade in the UK and they occasionally trot out that line still.

The opposition has the luxury of opposing the government decision and pointing out all the flaws in it, even when they know they would do the exact same of they were in power. There has never been a party in Ireland as comfortable with corruption as FF. Time in exile wont dampen their tolerance of corruption. If people vote them into government again (which they will) then they deserve what they get: another term of exactly the same as we've had in the past.

RustyNut

comedown wrote: »

Some of you need a bit of persepective. Yes, FG aren't perfect,
but FF left this country in an ABSOLUTE STATE.

We've progressed light years economically, culturally and socially in the last decade.
We're no longer seen as a backward nation stuck in the dark ages - quite the opposite.
Just remember, in 2009 Fianna Fail passed a blasphemy law for f*cks sake!
We have naturally intelligent leaders in Varadkar and Coveney, and a great relationship with Europe in the face of bully-boy Boris next door, who is already doing his best to cause problems.
We've come a long way. Why would you want to destroy that?

You're having a laugh.

Hospitals

It was the worst ever July for hospital overcrowding, with 9,439 admitted patients waiting for a bed, according to the latest monthly analysis from the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation.

The number of admitted patients waiting for a hospital bed increased by a third during this month compared to July 2018, and among them were 45 children.

Homeless children

Number of homeless children reaches new high of 3,800
Children accounted for all but four of the 41 additional people who became homeless since February.


There are now over 3,800 homeless children across the State, the latest figures show.

Data from the Department of Housing published on Tuesday show there were 10,305 people homeless, including 3,821 children, in the week between the 25th and 31st March. This compares with 9,681 homeless, including 3,646 children in March 2018.

Since February 2019 the figures show an increase of 41 in the total number of homeless, of whom 37 were children, setting a new record level.

The highest increase in child homelessness was in the west, where there were 201 in February and 218 last month. In Dublin there were 2,806 homeless children - the same as in February - though the number of homeless families in the capital increased in the same month from 1,288 to 1,297

.

Working people are struggling to pay exorbitant rents thanks to Fine Gael policy of privatising social housing and will be lucky to afford to buy a place in Leinster if they are working in Dublin.

Businesses are closing daily because of the insurance crisis and Fine Gale and Vradkar are happy to have insurance strokers in their parliamentary party.

Not to mention the catastrophe that is the national children's hospital that will lead to generations of children and parents having to put up with a sub standard, overpriced facility in the wrong place.

The rural broadband scandal. Etc, etc, etc.

Blasphemy laws are the least of our problems.