Everything you always wanted to know about electric vehicle (but were afraid to ask)

Ivefoundgod

Thanks @unkel and @Gumbo I don't think I'd ever really be bothered using a public charge point or Lidl etc. Just can't see it being worth the effort, maybe if there was one in a hotel I was staying at I'd consider it allright. I'll see if I can track down a second hand one, €400 seems crazy for it direct from Hyundai.

drunkmonkey

I doubt you'll ever use that cable, I've 11k up on a phev in 3mts and haven't used it once. I've used the granny cable a few times when away for the night and could park close to a window to plug it in. Probably won't be doing that in winter.

Your limited to 7.2 kW charging anyway so you wouldn't get much in lidl unless your there for a few hours.

Have you a hold option on the battery in the Hyundai so your not eating into the battery when on the motorway?

Best of luck with the new car.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394792#Comment_119394792

1. https://shop.tesla.com/en_ie/product/type-2-adapter---32a out of stock at the minute, but that cable will be future-proof for you for 100 euro, I bought a cheaper charger and that cable for 2 family members, total was 320 euro, does the same job as a tethered charger.
2. Correct.
3. Charge where ever you like, whenever you want, if it suits you, ideally if you are parked up for some time. I am amazed that people still spout nonsense about charging at home, sure electricity out and about is more expensive but sometimes it's free and in some places, you can park for free while charging, every 50 km you do will save about 3 euros if you have to pay for it, plus your not polluting which is kind of important. Cheaper tolls also.
4. Well wear.

Gumbo

Completely agree with the above. You’d hardly use the Type 2 cable due to the costs involved in public charging.

Imagine a trip where you stop to charge. You have to wait 90 mins to fill the batttery and it will cost about €3 (10 kWh X 30c) I’d much rather continue on the trip using petrol and if that’s nonsense then I don’t know what isint.

drunkmonkey

Just checked mine there it's charging on the home charger, it'll take another 2hrs 34mins to get 30km more range. 90 minutes at a road side charger isn't going to get you very far.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395734#Comment_119395734

I thought it was about a 14 (13.8) kWh battery? What home charger are you using? Tuscan has a 7kw OBC

So if they plug into a roadside charger they will get 7kW charging speed. Therefore about 120 mins to full from 0 but assumed they would arrive at a low SOC.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395796#Comment_119395796

Your right I'm using the VW home charger with mine but my maximum charging speed is 3.7kW limited by the car so they'd have double my charging speed.

Still even at double it's still slow, it would make some difference if phev's could fast charge.

Sabre Man

One important component of electric vehicles is not getting the attention it deserves, so in this video we're talking about the on-board charger.

- What is the role of the on-board charger?

-What is the power output of on-board chargers, and what does this mean in practice?

-Real-life examples

-Recommendations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jV3lO4yiRc

TreatyGirl

I'm looking to order a new EV, delivery 6-12 months, what is the typical deposit expected to be paid? (never bought a new car)

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429521#Comment_119429521

Depends what your ordering.

Tesla is €250 and price is locked in.

BMW can be €500 and subject to whatever price changes they make. Same for Audi, VW, Hyundai etc

TreatyGirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429699#Comment_119429699

Thanks it's VW ID.3. Wasn't aware price wouldn't be locked in!

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429926#Comment_119429926

Unfortunately not.

Check out the other threads in here where they told customers to take the price hike or cancel the order.

ECO_Mental

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429926#Comment_119429926

I got an ID4 about 2 weeks ago and and ordered it in February. In the mean time VW upped the price on my car by €5k which brought it over the 60k SEAI grant threshold, so if I was to buy the same spec it would cost me €11,000 more. They also increased the PCP rate in the mean time also.

Took delivery 2 weeks ago and VW held the price from February and the the PCP rate. Even though in the small print of the contract they say they can increase the cost if there were price increases.

If you are ordering just double check with them that they will hold the price.

Sabre Man

Sometimes you can save time and money by choosing your route and speed carefully, as Guillaume explains in this video. This is especially true in France, where toll roads can be quite expensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_p_6pzriE

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429521#Comment_119429521

If you ordered a new Tesla Model 3 today, you'd be driving it before the end of September.

setanta1984

Not sure where to ask this, but a basic enough question that googling throws up conflicting answers.

Car has about 280-300km range, bought new in March, and commute is 100km. I have been plugging in the car at home every night by default and charging to 100%, so finish most days around the 60% mark. I know its probably "bad" to charge to 100% every night, but does it really make that much of a difference in reality? What kind of degradation would I expect if I continued doing this?

I know I should probably change the charging pattern. Would it be better to continue plugging in every night, but only charging to 80%? Or, charge to 100% but only plug in every second night, when the battery is closer to 20% remaining? Or should I not be worried and continue as I have been?

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480191#Comment_119480191

What kind of car is it?

Unless it has a LFP battery, you shouldn't really be charging it to 100% every night... you only use 40% per day, so you should really only be charging to 80-90% each time you charge it...

For the vast majority of EV's, the sweet spot is between 20% - 80%, and any regular incursions above or below these values will have a detrimental effect on the longevity of the battery.

unkel

This again! When you charge to 100% it isn't actually 100%, the BMS has set safe limits for charging up to and discharging down to. It is perfectly safe to charge your EV every single day to 100%

That said, in theory most lithium chemistries as found in cars are happiest around 50% state of charge. If you only ever cycle the battery between 25% and 75%, the battery will degrade the least

In practice charging to 100% every day will save you a few percentage points in your battery health over 10 years. Are you going to keep the car for 10 years? If so, will it matter to you that after 10 years it will have 240km range or 260km range left? If so, is that really worth all the hassle thinking about this and worrying you are doing the right thing? My guess is that for most people, most of the answers to these questions are "no"

So you are right to ask here and not just blindly follow pub talk "not to ever charge to 100%". It's nonsense. Hope I have clarified why.

Sabre Man

Here are a couple of videos about how to take care of your battery and degradation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DZWHqswRVI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2z1SXN3caU

dingbat

Hi. This is a silly question but I don't know the answer and need to be certain of it before my wife or I try to use a public charger.

We've just bought an ID4. We will have one of those VW wecharge cards arriving. I'll just leave that in the car. What else do we need to do in order to generally be able to rock up to whatever charger is available (ESB / EasyGo / Circle K, etc.) somewhere and get some electric juice?

Also... which of PlugShare or Zap Map (or something else) is generally more reliable?

setanta1984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480238#Comment_119480238

Its a Hyundai Ioniq 2021 model with the 38kWh battery.

Thanks for responses, as I said conflicting opinions as proved already!

From @unkel 's post and the gist of the above video (only listened to the first 10 or so minutes so far) sounds like charging to 100% isn't perfect, but not exactly a disaster either when its driven minimum 100km 5 days a week.

For all the focus on range of EV's, it seems a bit pointless to not utilise 100% of that range, if needed. The mindset I had was always having the most range available at any time, if you ever need to make an unexpected journey. Doesn't seem worth deliberately hamstringing the car.

AndyBoBandy

The thing is will you need 100% of the cars range every single day? I doubt it..

Of course I will charge my car to 100% when I know I'll use a large chink of that power almost immediately, or if I know I'm going into a charging wilderness..... The thing is those occasions only occur once every few months or so...

Sabre Man

The main thing is not to charge to 100% and regularly leave it at 100% for a long time.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481198#Comment_119481198

3rd party apps are usually more expensive. Get ESB and EasyGo for their own chargers.

Plugshare, community driven, is the main source of information ref chargers. Like wikipedia you can get and add info. Chargers are rated based on the activity, you can check pictures of the location to help find the charger. There is a function where you can chat with the users. Zap-map a bit more UK-centric.

There will be some other odd apps/networks usually at hotels and/or shopping centers. I use podpoint in Dundrum SC (those non-ESB from level2 red carpark), Plugsurfing at Blanch red entrance(?), ePower at some hotels. Ubicitry at Malahide and DLR lamppost, to name a few.

Ionity is on many different apps but they have their own. There is a whole thread about them

dingbat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483027#Comment_119483027

Thanks so much.

So in the immediate term, sign up for ESB and EasyGo and work with PlugShare.

We'll start to work it out :-)

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483358#Comment_119483358

Plugshare is great for finding a charger you might need to use somewhere off the beaten track, or close to a particular destination you might visit, and the information contained in Plugshare will tell you what if any app you'd need to use a particular charger, or how you would pay etc....... but as you say, the main ones are ESB eCars & EasyGo (I'd recommend a prepay account for both, and maybe lodge €20-€30 in the ESB one and just leave the card* they send in the car).

Depending on your route, you might need to use Ionity, and depending on the car you're getting, you might have a manufacturer discount card, or you might have to be a non affiliated user, meaning you pay their very expensive rates. There are a number of providers that give access to Ionity... there's Ionity themselves, and some others like ChargePoint (that's who I'm with), though with Ionity, it seems a new provider shows up every few months offering really good rates, only for the rates to then increase to close to standard Ionity (high) rates again.... I was signed up with 4 different providers for Ionity before I actually ever used Ionity for the 1st time!!!

*apps are fine for the most part, but if there were ever network issues, having a physical card is invaluable... eCars card is sent for free, EasyGo fob needs to be paid for. I have an eCars card, but don't have the EasyGo fob.

dingbat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483868#Comment_119483868

This is a VW specific question, apologies. Their WeConnect ID app comes with a WeCharge plan type of thing. Why do I need that if I can just have my own ESB and EasyGo accounts?

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484014#Comment_119484014

I believe the WeCharge card is primarily for use with the Ionity charging network, so you'll get decent rates with them as opposed to if you were a standard Ionity customer.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484014#Comment_119484014

Sometimes people prefer just one card/provider. And it is fine if you use it once in a blue moon. If you are a heavy user you can sign up for Go or Plus plans which have a monthly fee but are cheaper overall especially for Ionity.

I just looked up prices and DC charging for the free plan is 76c/kWh on 3rd party networks and Ionity is 73c/kWh . That is around 30c or 2/3 dearer per kWh. Even on the Plus plan DC is more expensive but the overstay begins after 90 mins.

dingbat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484133#Comment_119484133

yeah we'll be only very occasional users of Ionity. So should we just get an account directly with Ionity and ignore this wecharge thing entirely?

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484402#Comment_119484402

You should signup for the WeCharge one also. Just go for the free plan. WeCharge is international and has agreements with multiple providers, not just Ionity.

You might never use it but if you signup for the PAYG plan it will cost you nothing until the day you actually need it and you might be glad of it then.

And if you own an ID car you will have the app already on your phone anyway so its not even an extra app to download/update etc.

Grumpypants

What's the story with battery heating? It's an option in the settings, I've seen one video about turning it on before you get to a fast charger to help speed it up.

But is that the only use? Is there a need to turn it on on a cold morning for just driving? Would it help with range or would the power taken to heat it offset that?

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119624042#Comment_119624042

To get the max charging speed at a fast DC charging you need a warm battery. That's primarily what the battery heating is for.

However, on a very cold day, you will also have restricted power from the car if the battery is very cold, so some cars will heat the battery to an operating temperature that allows max driving power. It doesn't heat it to the same level as required for max charging speed but just enough to give you max power.

It will affect your range, unless the heating is done while plugged in at home, in which case the heating comes from your house electricity.

In most cases you just let the car manage the whole thing itself. Its not something you worry about but it depends on the car.

unkel

@KCross - "In most cases you just let the car manage the whole thing itself. Its not something you worry about but it depends on the car."

This is the important bit, you don't really need to worry about any of these things yourself, the car will manage it for you. An extreme example is the batteries in most Chinese EVs and in base model Teslas are of the LiFePO4 chemistry, which will be destroyed very quickly if you ever tried to charge them when the pack is below zero celsius. But again, the cars won't let you do this.

innrain

Agree with both comments but, when speaking about Tesla, it is good practice to let the car know you intend to charge. On a long drive it is worth adding the SuC as intermediate destination in the navigation instead of popping up there on a whim. Even when charging at non Tesla chargers it is good idea to navigate to the charger instead of simply showing up. I did some tests in the winter and for few minutes the car redirected good kW from the charger for warming up the battery. Now that I have the SuC in my back garden I could do more tests preconditioned vs not.

Grumpypants

There is a button for it so I presume it has some real world use. But since you can't pre heat the battery from the app for a cold morning, it must be just for a fast charge in cold weather so it gets up to max speed faster.

Red Silurian

Has anybody any experience with extension cables for their tethered home chargers such as this one, do they work well?

https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/extension-cables/products/type-2-extension-cable-5-meter-16-32-amp

frankthetank83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711251#Comment_119711251

This charger has a 7.5m cable as standard if you haven’t installed yet and would stretch the distance

https://www.electricireland.ie/residential/products/ev-home-chargers

mc2022B2TF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119627779#Comment_119627779

Preconditioning of the battery, especially LFP in colder weather is an absolute must and absolutely will make a massive difference to charging speeds.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119722989#Comment_119722989

I have installed yes

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711251#Comment_119711251

I use an extension cable on a 32a CEE evse as one of my two regular home chargers with no issue.

Sabre Man

"Do I have to pay for parking while I am charging my electric car?" The answer is that it depends on the local council. In this video, Inge tries to explain and gives you a handy link to bookmark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ple3XN0RTio

Sabre Man

There is a new EasyGo fast charge point in Mallow, but you won't find it on any maps, at least not in the correct location. Watch this video if you want to know where to find it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpXzWcVQG2Q

Sabre Man

In this video, Guillaume reviews the Renault Megane E-Tech. How does it compare to his own Tesla Model 3?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szxzR9PnoNk

Ivefoundgod

Picked up my new Tiguain PHEV last week and have a couple of questions that are probably fairly dumb but anyway;

1. We've priced up getting a proper EV charger in our house. House is old and requires about 3k worth of work to support an EV charger. We'll be looking at extending the house in a few years which will require a re-wire and possibly move where the charger is. Would we be better off just getting an external socket and granny charging? I have access to proper chargers in work so don't expect to use the granny charger all that much other than the odd weekend or week I don't go into the office
2. Public charging points - whats the best option for access to the most chargers? I don't expect to use them very often if at all but would like to have the option if we are away for a while or going to leave the car parked up somewhere for a few hours. Is it considered bad form to leave PHEV plugged in at these?

Berty

I know about being ICED at a public charge point but is there one for being blocked by a PHEV who can't charge fast connecting to a super fast charge point when they could just plug into another one?

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120085212#Comment_120085212

Does this happen often? Considering that most super fast CCS charge points are "tethered" then I would imagine that the connector will not fit in a PHEV seeing as most of them only have a type 2 socket on them. Pulling into the charger spot and not connecting anything, should have a penalty applied on it for sure though.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084980#Comment_120084980

1. Thats a tough one since you could be doing redundant work now if you are doing an extension in a few years. If you were not doing the extension or if it was, say, 10 years out before you were doing it I'd say spend the €3k and get it done (draw the charge point grant also which will likely be gone "soon") ... but its really only you can answer it based on your finances and future plans.

I do think though that you need a home charge point. Having a charge point at work is great but that potentially means alot of your commute into work is on petrol, particularly if you have done other driving the previous evening. I think you'll be looking at <40km EV range on that car in winter. How long is your commute?

Granny cable charging is ok as a short term solution but you shouldn't really rely on that long term and its also likely that your next car will be a BEV rather than a PHEV which means the granny cable wouldn't likely cut it then, so you'd have to bite the bullet at that point.

Lots of variables here! I guess you can try out the granny cable for a while and see how you go. It will take about 5hrs to charge that car on granny cable.

2: An eCars account would give you access to the majority of the 22kW AC charge points around the country. Its fine to charge your PHEV on those AC units. Its what they are designed for. The honourable thing to do is to move once fully charged. There is no expectation that you move immediately, just as quickly as you can.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084980#Comment_120084980

Did you asked the installer for only the 16A or 3.6kW charger? Maybe you don't need upgrading. You can buy a charging point that works for both 3.6kW/7.2kW the later being the most used/sold ones. Your car maxes out at 3.6kW so the wires required should be smaller.

Here an example. (I do not endorse or represent the company. They were the first result on google)

innrain

Forgot to answer second point.

Public charging for your car is covered 99% by ESB and easygo. Both on prepay, both quite expensive. There will be some other smaller players especially at hotels. but probably you can register on the spot if you need them.

Regarding the form, the car charges on AC only. So you will not charge on the motorway stations at least in theory. However, ESB installs some legacy AC chargers on the same place with DC chargers, in a very stupid layout of 4 plugs/3spaces or similar. If used inconsiderately some AC user drawing 3.6kW might block an 150kW plug. Is not that they do something wrong but it mounts frustration for the others. If you charge at AC only points you use the system as intended although some might comment in this situation as well. My experience with PHEVs it is limited to 2 rentals I had last year for around a week each. One Skoda Octavia and another Audi A6. Skoda I managed to charge twice and while on electric it was a nice ride. With the A6 I didn't have anything handy to charge so I just lugged its battery around Germany with no benefit. Overall my opinion is that it is too much hassle to charge in public for very little return.