Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2019/2020

~Rebel~

Chesty08 wrote: »

Steven Gerrard.

Better defensive midfielder, central midfielder ,attacking midfielder, winger and full back than him. Gerrard a better goal scorer, passer, tackler and overall better player.

Any other position?

Gerrard is definitely better, but are they considered in the same generation? Feels to me like Milner is the generation after, at 6 years younger. It's a weird one, and more based on feeling than anything concrete, but Gerrard to me sort of feels like he belongs with the generation that are all retired a few years now, with the likes of Lampard, Carra, Terry, Barry, Hargreaves etc.

Keeping in mind for instance that Milner was part of that England U-21 squad that lost to Ryan Babel's Netherlands in that epic penalty shootout in the semi final in 2007, while at the same time Gerrard was already well e stablished as our most senior player and captain, and was just starting a partnership with Fernando Torres. That just feels to me like a significant generational gap.

j8wk2feszrnpao

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I can understand people doing this when its used to debunk a troll. But otherwise... i mean, yeah, we're all hypocrites.

I know what you mean, but if you think a player is a good signing, then knock the way he was treated/positioned/tactically-setup/surrounding-players as the reason it didn’t work; not just “it was proof he was wrong manager”.

Rodgers lost Sterling/Suarez/Sturridge (injuries) in the space of 12-16 months. If we lost Bobby/Mane/Salah in such a short window, it’d seriously hurt us.

Rodgers gets way too much stick, and I say that as someone who didn’t have an issue with him leaving (was sick of the post match stuff) and was delighted when we got Klopp.

~Rebel~

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I know what you mean, but if you think a player is a good signing, then knock the way he was treated/positioned/tactically-setup/surrounding-players as the reason it didn’t work; not just “it was proof he was wrong manager”.

Rodgers lost Sterling/Suarez/Sturridge (injuries) in the space of 12-16 months. If we lost Bobby/Mane/Salah in such a short window, it’d seriously hurt us.

Rodgers gets way too much stick, and I say that as someone who didn’t have an issue with him leaving (was sick of the post match stuff) and was delighted when we got Klopp.

But equally, I think we should debate the point, rather than going trawling back through peoples post histories to catch them out. It doesn't really matter what they thought years ago, as it's the point that is up for debate. And even if that persons position gets invalidated based on some past exchange, someone else probably held that position too anyway, so is still worth the discussion.

I totally agree that Rodgers gets more abuse than he deserves. I've a lot of time for him myself. He created one amazing team at liverpool (and no it wasn't all just Suarez - one just needs to go back and look at how the team worked around Suarez to see Rodgers influence - it was a very cohesive plan), and he just gets abuse for not being able to do it a second time under tough circumstances. He was let go at the right time, but deserves respect for what he did achieve, which was one of my best Liverpool-supporting years. Doing a fantastic job at Leicester now too.

j8wk2feszrnpao

~Rebel~ wrote: »

But equally, I think we should debate the point, rather than going trawling back through peoples post histories to catch them out. It doesn't really matter what they thought years ago, as it's the point that is up for debate. And even if that persons position gets invalidated based on some past exchange, someone else probably held that position too anyway, so is still worth the discussion.

The discussion is absolutely valid.
But when someone is heavy handed about how bad a signing was to bash someone, it’s kinda valid to bring up their own opinion at the time. It’s fine to be wrong (fans aren’t being paid to get it right), but you can have consistently in your argument as well.

~Rebel~

munstermagic11 wrote: »

The discussion is absolutely valid.
But when someone is heavy handed about how bad a signing was to bash someone, it’s kinda valid to bring up their own opinion at the time. It’s fine to be wrong (fans aren’t being paid to get it right), but you can have consistently in your argument as well.

Would this not be a negative in and of itself though? That just sounds like stubbornness and a refusal to change one's position in the face of new information. I dunno, it just feels like pedantics to me, especially when we're delving into comments from years ago.

Anyway, probably enough derailing from us!

Starfleet Student

I remember saying I liked El Hadji Diouf and though he would be a great signing. I think i might have changed my mind on that later and think Houllier should be blamed for everything he has done since. Not sure if that is allowed in here now. How about go back 5 years ago and take 20 or 30 of Coulsons posts around that time to put just one into perspective of that time. I sure I can pull one post two from posters who are still active from that time whos opinion cchanged at least Coulson didn't close his account and re reg to hid his thoughts which seems to be a thing with posters here on Boards.

j8wk2feszrnpao

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Would this not be a negative in and of itself though? That just sounds like stubbornness and a refusal to change one's position in the face of new information. I dunno, it just feels like pedantics to me, especially when we're delving into comments from years ago.

Anyway, probably enough derailing from us!

Sorry, I meant you can be consistent by stating that you got it wrong as well, rather than convenient amnesia when knocking someone else.
New evidence/information certainly alters your view on something.
And yes, enough derailing by me as well, we’ll move on.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Starfleet Student wrote: »

I remember saying I liked El Hadji Diouf and though he would be a great signing. I think i might have changed my mind on that later and think Houllier should be blamed for everything he has done since. Not sure if that is allowed in here now.

But you’re saying you thought it was a great signing. Not comparable really.
And of course you can say what you want. So can others.
Not sure what you mean by “Houllier should be blamed for everything he has done since”. Houllier got it wrong (as well as Diao) with that signing, but Diouf played a huge part in his own failings.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Gerrard is definitely better, but are they considered in the same generation? Feels to me like Milner is the generation after, at 6 years younger. It's a weird one, and more based on feeling than anything concrete, but Gerrard to me sort of feels like he belongs with the generation that are all retired a few years now, with the likes of Lampard, Carra, Terry, Barry, Hargreaves etc.

Keeping in mind for instance that Milner was part of that England U-21 squad that lost to Ryan Babel's Netherlands in that epic penalty shootout in the semi final in 2007, while at the same time Gerrard was already well e stablished as our most senior player and captain, and was just starting a partnership with Fernando Torres. That just feels to me like a significant generational gap.

6 year gap..... Milner at 26 when Gerrard was 32....i don't see the significant gap TBH.
There's significant overlap in their playing careers to be fair.

~Rebel~

Augeo wrote: »

6 year gap..... Milner at 26 when Gerrard was 32....i don't see the significant gap TBH.
There's significant overlap in their playing careers to be fair.

I know 6 years isn’t so long in the real world, but it’s pretty much half a senior career for most players... I kind of think of football generations as 4 year cycles, the groups who come into World Cups together over the course of the 4 year build up. Totally subjective grouping though, but personally I wouldn’t count them as coming from the same generation.

It's become more clear over the past few years how limited Rodgers was tbh.

Just not on the same level as Klopp.

Turtyturd

Firmino as a right back/wingback says it all.

Klopp moved Milner out of position knowing he was capable of doing it. I reckon ‘The Rodgers’ moved Firmino in a ‘look how bad the players you signed are’ kinda way.

Dickerty

So.....looking forward to Newcastle? Should be a standard win, the way we are playing. I think Milner and Ox starts since Gini and Hendo played two games each.

steve_r

Turtyturd wrote: »

Firmino as a right back/wingback says it all.

Klopp moved Milner out of position knowing he was capable of doing it. I reckon ‘The Rodgers’ moved Firmino in a ‘look how bad the players you signed are’ kinda way.

I think there was a bit of ego with Rogers, that maybe he was trying to show that he had a better idea of where someone could play, or that he could see something others couldn't see (playing Aspas against Chelsea, signing Mario).

Plus with Bobby it was a bit unclear where would he would work best in the PL

Dickerty wrote: »

So.....looking forward to Newcastle? Should be a standard win, the way we are playing. I think Milner and Ox starts since Gini and Hendo played two games each.

Hopefully, we learn the lesson from their game against Spurs and try and score early. That defensive system under Rafa is still there so hopefully they are killed off early. There's no way we should be losing to a Steve Bruce team if we are serious about a title challenge. I think he was a terrible appointment and probably the worst PL manager going.

TitianGerm

steve_r wrote: »

. I think he was a terrible appointment and probably the worst PL manager going.

I'd say there's a few to give him a run for his money. Ole has been woeful for a start.

Dickerty

TitianGerm wrote: »

I'd say there's a few to give him a run for his money. Ole has been woeful for a start.

Ole has bigger problems than just results though, like we did when Klopp arrived. It takes time to resolve those, and then the results should come with. The windows are all closed now, so he has to prove himself as a coach with a static group...

facehugger99

Everything about the Newcastle match screams comfortable 4-0 home win, which conversely means I'm convinced this will be a huge banana skin waiting to happen.

MD1990

6 wrote: »

It's become more clear over the past few years how limited Rodgers was tbh.

Just not on the same level as Klopp.

I think Rodgers is a good coachbut his man management seems poor & transfers are awful.

Not many are on Klopp's level only Pep & Simeone.

Alonso77

After 3 yrs at the helm Rodgers looked half witted - Klopp had us competing at the top table in Europe.

Klopp wins.

klose

Rodgers biggest issue was obviously his transfers and the whole sh!t show between him and the transfer committee. There wasn't a whole lot of rhyme or reason to the majority of Rodgers signings and it was ultimately the hill he died on as they players he brought in let him down. Be interesting in a season or two will he have the same issues at Leicester.

GiftofGab

Any update on Keita and Alison injures yet??

rob316

To be fair to Rodgers that job was too much too soon for him and he came into with zero top level experience unlike Klopp. I still really rate Rodgers he'll do a great job at Leicester.

Fitz*

klose wrote: »

Rodgers biggest issue was obviously his transfers and the whole sh!t show between him and the transfer committee. There wasn't a whole lot of rhyme or reason to the majority of Rodgers signings and it was ultimately the hill he died on as they players he brought in let him down. Be interesting in a season or two will he have the same issues at Leicester.

Edward Macia (who was once on the recruitment team at Liverpool during the time we signed Torres, Kuyt, Mascherano, Sterling etc) was the Leicester head of recruitment for a number of years. Ndidi, Maguire, Maddison, Perreira, Soyuncu, Tielemens, were just some players signed during his tenure.

Rodgers joined Leicester at the end of February 2019. Just over 2 weeks later, Macia left Leicester City.

Tells you all you need to know there .

Starfleet Student

When Brendan took the Celtic job did he take the backroom staff he had to fire at Liverpool to save his job ? that also said a lot about Brendan for me that he happily let his assistant and coaching staff take the blame for his failures.

KevRossi

Was anybody at the Napoli match last year? It wasn't sold out. Thinking of heading there on spec to see if I can get a ticket for any of the main stands, so was wondering if anybody has any experience of that?

Will be in the north of Italy on holidays and its about 4-5 hours by train so might be worth it.

B_ecke_r

Leicester is Rodgers' level.

Jurgen and Pep are the 2 best around currently.

then in no particular order Poch, Conte, Simeone and so on

rob316

Starfleet Student wrote: »

When Brendan took the Celtic job did he take the backroom staff he had to fire at Liverpool to save his job ? that also said a lot about Brendan for me that he happily let his assistant and coaching staff take the blame for his failures.

He said the Liverpool job was a steep learning curve and he took alot from it. You would hope this was one of the things he learned from.
Wasn't his assistants son going out with his daughter or something?

LiamoSail

klose wrote: »

Rodgers biggest issue was obviously his transfers and the whole sh!t show between him and the transfer committee. There wasn't a whole lot of rhyme or reason to the majority of Rodgers signings and it was ultimately the hill he died on as they players he brought in let him down. Be interesting in a season or two will he have the same issues at Leicester.

It’s incredible how a seemingly observant manager such as Rodgers can be so blind when it comes to recruitment, and specifically his failings in the area.

He didn’t rate the Liverpool transfer committee who have since proved themselves to be up there with the best in the world at what they do, Rodgers instead pulling in an altogether different direction.

At Celtic, John Park, Celtic’s Chief Scout, left/was moved on as Rodgers was appointed. He’d been responsible for signing players like Wanyama, Hooper, Ki, VVD, Forster etc. Since Rodgers took over, Celtic’s recruitment has been near abysmal.

I find it bizarre that he himself can’t see that at both his previous clubs, the recruitment was significantly better before/after he was there.

Diego Simeone made a great point recently about how managers shouldn’t be the ones signing players because managing a club is a 12 hour a day job; they don’t have the time to fully assess potential signings on top of that. A manager should be part of that process as Klopp is with the transfer committee, it’s a system that works. If Rodgers could see that, he’d be a far more effective manager

Fitz*

KevRossi wrote: »

Was anybody at the Napoli match last year? It wasn't sold out. Thinking of heading there on spec to see if I can get a ticket for any of the main stands, so was wondering if anybody has any experience of that?

Will be in the north of Italy on holidays and its about 4-5 hours by train so might be worth it.

There are a lot of spares for the away game knocking about, with the Liverpool fans. I would imagine because a lot of people would have made the trip last season, so don't want to do it again this year. Also, it's Italy so very stabby, and Naples has a bad reputation for being rough.

I've been to Naples before (not in a footballing sense) and it is full of young lads with chips on their shoulder, trying to be intimidating. Now, I loved Naples as a base as their is so much around it such as Pompeii, Vesuvius, Amalfi Coast etc but actually inside Naples itself, there is a lot of hidden beautiful architecture. It is quite dirty though and a lot of people hate the place. I can see why it has a bad reputation.

For the football itself, the ground is a bit outside the city as far as I know, and the ground is falling to pieces. Holes at the back of the stand etc, and even Ancelotti came out with a statement last night saying how angry he is at the state of the dressing rooms as they have not been renovated yet and are falling apart still. They played their first 2 games away from home to get the work done but it is still not done. If that is the home dressing room, you can imagine what the away one is like. Not sure how the home fans would take to any English speaking person being in their section to be honest.

garra

KevRossi wrote: »

Was anybody at the Napoli match last year? It wasn't sold out. Thinking of heading there on spec to see if I can get a ticket for any of the main stands, so was wondering if anybody has any experience of that?

Will be in the north of Italy on holidays and its about 4-5 hours by train so might be worth it.

If you don't get an answer here, try the Irishkop website where there are large number of fans who travel to the away European games.. they might even be in a position to sell you tickets for the away end so you would be able to celebrate goals and watch the match more comfortably.

ricero

Anybody reckons that Klopp could release the Shaq or Big Divock on the toon army this Saturday ?

Or else full strength from the start and kill them that way ?

Can see at least one or two changes.

Owl.

ricero wrote: »

Anybody reckons that Klopp could release the Shaq or Big Divock on the toon army this Saturday ?

Or else full strength from the start and kill them that way ?

Can see at least one or two changes.

Yep. Have a feeling we might see both starting in a 4-2-3-1.

Fitz*

ricero wrote: »

Anybody reckons that Klopp could release the Shaq or Big Divock on the toon army this Saturday ?

Or else full strength from the start and kill them that way ?

Can see at least one or two changes.

Yeah I think both have a good chance of starting, especially Shaqiri. Also think that Robertson might be rested also.

We know how Newcastle will set up, so I think we'll go with an extra attacker, but also giving us a lot of the ball. Milner might be more suited here as he is very comfortable on the ball. Not saying that Robertson is not, but he prefers having a lot of space to run into.

Think Gini will get a rest after two Holland games and a tough two away games coming up too. Maybe Fabinho & Henderson in the middle for this game.

We have Napoli away on Tuesday, and Chelsea away at the weekend then after so will need the 'A' players fresh & firing for those.

charolais0153

Start ox and origi, rest mane or firmino and gini

Osmosis Jones

charolais0153 wrote: »

Start ox and origi, rest mane or firmino and gini

Mane's been off since our last game, no international duty, he'll be fine to play.

BorneTobyWilde

Harry Palmr

Salah wins Liverpool player of the month which I can't agree with until he makes that pass.

dmigsy

Ceballos on playing at Anfield:

Liverpool, Ceballos says, was quite a lesson. It takes him a moment to order his thoughts. “I’ve never seen anything like what I saw at Anfield; I haven’t seen a team that plays better, that presses like them, the way the fans carry them along.

“They take the air from you. You spend so much time defending and when you want to do something with the ball, when you want to breathe, they’re back on top of you. They’re very well-drilled.”

Is that something Unai Emery seeks to emulate? “We can’t compare it at the moment. We’re working on some similar things but Jürgen Klopp arrived at Liverpool in 2015. Unai came last season. Arsenal finished a point short of the Champions League and a small step from winning the Europa League; his arrival will be positive. In a few years Arsenal will be in the top 10 teams globally, competing for everything.

From: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/sep/12/dani-ceballos-arsenal-real-madrid-hardly-any-difference-anfield

ricero

Very honest by Ceballos. A friend of mine the other week who is a Man Utd supporter reckons we are the hardest working team in Europe and for once i agree with him.

The White Wolf

ricero wrote: »

Very honest by Ceballos. A friend of mine the other week who is a Man Utd supporter reckons we are the hardest working team in Europe and for once i agree with him.

Hardest working and also the fact we've elite level players all over the pitch. This team goes way beyond hard graft and is genuinely the most gifted Pool team man for man I've had the pleasure of witnessing with my own eyes.

Agent Coulson

Connor Randall has signed for a team in Bulgaria no team in England picked him up after he was released.

charolais0153

ricero wrote: »

Very honest by Ceballos. A friend of mine the other week who is a Man Utd supporter reckons we are the hardest working team in Europe and for once i agree with him.

Ya, its fairly impressive, a terror to play against

Potential Underachiever

dmigsy wrote: »

Ceballos on playing at Anfield:



From: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/sep/12/dani-ceballos-arsenal-real-madrid-hardly-any-difference-anfield

Love it.

Starfleet Student

James Pearce saying in a Q&A on The Athletic that the club have had positive talks with Nike and there is a decent offer on the table but no agreement is in place yet but it will become clearer next month it will be either Nike or staying with NB no other sponsor is in the frame to work with.

Osmosis Jones

Ceballos trying to get in the good books, eh? He's only on loan at Arsenal and requested that Madrid do not include an option to buy in Arsenal's current loan deal

Agent Coulson

Take the Nike money so I doubt New Balance could match it.

MD1990

id rather NB ahead of Nike.

Nike will just release a generic version for about 30 clubs around Europe.
Obviously will go to highest bidder.

Starfleet Student

I could give a ****e about the jersey if a billion pound contract form Nike can keep us competitive with the top teams in Europe over the next 10 years.

Fitz*

I was very against the Nike deal but to be fair it will be for a lot of money. Probably the biggest in England and one of the highest in Europe.

They are releasing some very nice 3rd kits this season, Inter & Barca especially, that give me some bit of hope for nice Liverpool kits. I hate them copy&paste kits that Spurs, Chelsea etc have right now. Very boring.

Sofa Spud

Apparently NB have a clause in their current contract that gives them the right to match any competing bids, so that'll put a nice bit of pressure on Nike to bid high - either way, we win...