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Dutch "Burqa ban" comes into force from today

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    #92
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Tasfasdf wrote: »
    Covering you face in public is not normal nor should it be normalised.

    Except for uggos


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    #93
    Lisa Millions Oats
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Lisa Millions Oats


    I was conflicted for the same reasons as earlier posters but... I think this is a really good point:
    biko wrote: »
    It is as necessary as anywhere else. Bringing bans in "after the fact" is what caused this mess in the first place.

    Bringing the ban in before it's too late means several things:
    We Irish say "women's rights outweigh religious doctrine"
    Liberated Muslims will fell more at ease because the culture they escaped from hasn't followed them here.
    Radical Muslims won't move here. This means less radicalisation of 2nd generation Muslims already here.


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    #94
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,291 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    If we bring it in here does it mean Lisa Smith won’t want to come home?


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    #95
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I was conflicted for the same reasons as earlier posters but... I think this is a really good point:


    You can't simultaneously claim to be liberating women while dictating what they can wear.


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    #96
    Lisa Millions Oats
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Lisa Millions Oats


    MrFresh wrote: »
    You can't simultaneously claim to be liberating women while dictating what they can wear.

    hence the conflict


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    #97
    Tasfasdf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Tasfasdf


    MrFresh wrote: »
    You can't simultaneously claim to be liberating women while dictating what they can wear.

    By your logic you wouldn't want to the government to liberate slaves because just maybe they want to be slaves.


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    #98
    cfuserkildare
    Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭cfuserkildare


    bubblypop wrote: »
    What views?
    It shows your religion for sure. And I hardly think it's comparable to the swastika!

    Not just a religion,
    But also an ideology of intolerance!!!
    Remember that they bring Shariah law with them too, not the laws of the land that they are currently in!!!


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    #99
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    IMHO the Burqa is completely disgusting. I shudder whenever I see a person wearing one. I will have nothing to do with such a person. Same goes for the Hijab or any other head covering designed to control sexuality. That being said, I don't think any government should tell people what to wear. Obviously, I don't care about your religious beliefs when it comes to secure places like banks & airports- In those situations my opinion would be more in the line of "take the bloody thing off of get out".


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    #100
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    cfuserkildare wrote: »
    Not just a religion,
    But also an ideology of intolerance!!!
    Remember that they bring Shariah law with them too, not the laws of the land that they are currently in!!!

    You should really read up on this because it's not what you think it is.


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    #101
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,598 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/light-colored-clothes-in-hot-weather.htm

    In fairness that just looks like another bad science link.


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    #102
    Tasfasdf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Tasfasdf


    jackboy wrote: »
    In fairness that just looks like another bad science link.

    I've just read it and no only is it bad science it contradicts itself a few times. These stupid websites just to make people think your right but I wouldn't expect any less for that poster.


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    #103
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Tasfasdf wrote: »
    I've just read it and no only is it bad science it contradicts itself a few times. These stupid websites just to make people think your right but I wouldn't expect any less for that poster.

    Fo out side in a white t-shirt for a while then go.out in a bkack t-shirt, theres no difference, it's all about how loose the clothing is and the material.

    As for your last line?

    Kettle, pot, black :rolleyes:


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    #104
    carolmon
    Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭carolmon


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    are people actually feeling this threat around towns and cities in Ireland?

    I often encounter women in niqab and have seen the occasional burqa (lidl in lucan)

    I don't feel any threat from the woman in the niqab or burqa but if her husband/ male relative is present it makes me wonder does he view me as less "pure" and therefore less worthy of respect because I am not veiled.

    I think of the Iman who tried to justify sexual assault of unveiled women
    "Hilali was quoted in The Australian newspaper Thursday as saying in the sermon: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside ... without cover, and the cats come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat's?"

    Is that an increased threat to my everyday safety as an "uncovered" woman?

    I think any subdivision of women into pure or impure is fundamentally dangerous for all women.... we're only just emerging from and challenging our own version of madonna/whore ideology and I don't want to surrender hard won freedoms in our personal and sexual lives.

    Re the government telling us what to wear -
    If it was just a simple case of "live and let live" I would say I don't care what anybody wears as long as it doesn't affect me... but it's not that simple, there is an ideology about women behind the garment that I don't like and I think it will ultimately affect western women so I support the ban.


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    #105
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Fo out side in a white t-shirt for a while then go.out in a bkack t-shirt, theres no difference, it's all about how loose the clothing is and the material.

    As for your last line?

    Kettle, pot, black :rolleyes:

    Didnt you start off saying black keeps you cooler than white? Starting to move goalposts a bit....


    Anyway, nothing nothing says I wish to integrate in your society like a burka.

    Anyone objecting to such a ban is literally a closet misogynist, and facilitator of the ongoing religious and ethnic patriarchal supression of female form and sexuality. You're only deluding yourself its "telling women what to wear"


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    #106
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Didnt you start off saying black keeps you cooler than white? Starting to move goalposts a bit....


    Anyway, nothing nothing says I wish to integrate in your society like a burka.

    Anyone objecting to such a ban is literally a closet misogynist, and facilitator of the ongoing religious and ethnic patriarchal supression of female form and sexuality. You're only deluding yourself its "telling women what to wear"


    Do you deny it's controlling what they can wear?


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    #107
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Swedish woman in shorts 'kicked off bus and told to cover up for wearing too few clothes' during heatwave
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/swedish-woman-in-shorts-kicked-off-bus-and-told-to-cover-up-for-wearing-too-few-clothes-during-a4202821.html
    Sara Mohammad, of Never Forget Pela and Fadime, which campaigns against female body shaming, told Swedish news site The Local: “What gives a bus driver the right to decide a woman has unsuitable clothing on?’

    “It was good that Amanda rejected that. I wish all women rejected this, whether it’s from a bus driver, or a father, or a mother or an uncle, whoever it is. ‘It’s my body, I own it.”

    https://www.thelocal.se/20190730/malmo-teenager-ordered-off-bus-because-for-wearing-too-few-clothes
    "I can confirm that the driver was not acting out of any religious or political motive," he told Sydsvenskan.
    Yeah right...

    Bus driver is suspended, but probably back on the streets after some sensitivity training.


    Import Middle East, become Middle East.


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    #108
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    biko wrote: »
    Swedish woman in shorts 'kicked off bus and told to cover up for wearing too few clothes' during heatwave
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/swedish-woman-in-shorts-kicked-off-bus-and-told-to-cover-up-for-wearing-too-few-clothes-during-a4202821.html


    https://www.thelocal.se/20190730/malmo-teenager-ordered-off-bus-because-for-wearing-too-few-clothes

    Yeah right...

    Bus driver is suspended, but probably back on the streets after some sensitivity training.


    Import Middle East, become Middle East.

    I must have missed the part that states the driver was from the middle east, can you link to it please?


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    #109
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    biko wrote: »
    Swedish woman in shorts 'kicked off bus and told to cover up for wearing too few clothes' during heatwave
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/swedish-woman-in-shorts-kicked-off-bus-and-told-to-cover-up-for-wearing-too-few-clothes-during-a4202821.html


    https://www.thelocal.se/20190730/malmo-teenager-ordered-off-bus-because-for-wearing-too-few-clothes

    Yeah right...

    Bus driver is suspended, but probably back on the streets after some sensitivity training.


    Import Middle East, become Middle East.
    Would you be similarly upset if she was kicked off for wearing a head dress?


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    #110
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Do you deny it's controlling what they can wear?

    You see this as a micro controlling what to wear issue. I see it as a macro controlling women what to wear.

    Do you deny women are forced to wear them?

    Anyone persisting in the view this is "a telling women what to wear" issue, is either hopelessly naive or so ideologically anchored to viewing anything not conforming to ones ideals of unfettered rights, as an attack on those ideals and not an attempt to curb the influx and manifestation of an intolerant ideology.

    Someone more comfortable railing against a perceived attack on womens "sartorial rights," than railing against millions of womens subjugation and forced covering.


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    #111
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Would you be similarly upset if she was kicked off for wearing a head dress?

    Good leap!


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    #112
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    You see this as a micro controlling what to wear issue. I see it as a macro controlling women what to wear.

    Do you deny women are forced to wear them?

    Anyone persisting in the view this is "a telling women what to wear" issue, is either hopelessly naive or so ideologically anchored to viewing anything not conforming to ones ideals of unfettered rights, as an attack on those ideals and not an attempt to curb the influx and manifestation of an intolerant ideology.

    Someone more comfortable railing against a perceived attack on womens "sartorial rights," than railing against millions of womens subjugation and forced covering.


    Just another transparent attempt to attack foreigners under the guise of saving women. They still have to go home to the same homes. If you want to save women you invest in domestic violence supports and refuges. The only think a burka ban will do is help you feel good about yourself. It won't help Muslim women, it won't change any culture and it just replaces one rule on what they can wear with another. Blatant hypocrisy.

    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Good leap!


    No leap needed. People are up in arm about a man being uopset with what a woman is wearing yet at the same time being delighted in a rule that tells a woman what she can wear. Like I said, blatant hypocrisy.


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    #113
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Just another transparent attempt to attack foreigners under the guise of saving women. They still have to go home to the same homes. If you want to save women you invest in domestic violence supports and refuges. The only think a burka ban will do is help you feel good about yourself. It won't help Muslim women, it won't change any culture and it just replaces one rule on what they can wear with another. Blatant hypocrisy.

    No leap needed. People are up in arm about a man being uopset with what a woman is wearing yet at the same time being delighted in a rule that tells a woman what she can wear. Like I said, blatant hypocrisy.



    No offence, i didnt bother reading the rest of your post, if your starting position is a baseless assumption as to my motivation. Probably something "you dont really care", something Nazi, something bigot?

    I got as far as "Just another transparent attempt to attack foreigners, the goto arguement when you're left with absolutely nothing in the tank that is a valid arguement in favour of a burka, considering the misery and subjugation of women worldwide where a burka is an obvious manifestation of their lot, their standing and value to their society. You really should review your priorities.

    Carry on. You really got women's back dont you?


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    #114
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    No offence, i didnt bother reading the rest of your post, if your starting position is a baseless assumption as to my motivation. Probably something "you dont really care", something Nazi, something bigot?

    I got as far as "Just another transparent attempt to attack foreigners, the goto arguement when you're left with absolutely nothing in the tank that is a valid arguement in favour of a burka, considering the misery and subjugation of women worldwide where a burka is an obvious manifestation of their lot, their standing and value to their society. You really should review your priorities.

    Carry on. You really got women's back dont you?


    Nobody has argued in favour of the burka. You might realise that if you read other people's posts instead of just admiring your own.


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    #115
    Tasfasdf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Tasfasdf


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Nobody has argued in favour of the burka. You might realise that if you read other people's posts instead of just admiring your own.

    You seem to be in favour of it by constantly attack posters with whataboutry every time a valid point is made.


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    #116
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    How sad it must be never to see a friendly smile from a female, in places where this covering-up occurs.
    Is god-given natural beauty so terrible it must be always covered in public?
    Is art and music totally off-limits also, whay about a nice view of a summer landscape?

    Then there is practical everyday considerations e.g. going to the dentist - how will that work out.


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    #117
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Tasfasdf wrote: »
    You seem to be in favour of it by constantly attack posters with whataboutry every time a valid point is made.


    I'm against a ban on it, not in favour of it being worn.


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    #118
    Tasfasdf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Tasfasdf


    MrFresh wrote: »
    I'm against a ban on it, not in favour of it being worn.

    So you don't really have a stance on the matter so instead attack posters who do


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    #119
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Tasfasdf wrote: »
    So you don't really have a stance on the matter so instead attack posters who do


    I've literally just outlined my stance in the post you quoted.


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    #120
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    MrFresh wrote: »
    I'm against a ban on it, not in favour of it being worn.

    Talk about wanting your cake and eating it.

    Someday, you might have to pull on your big boy pants, and take a stance on something for the greater good of the many, rather than your myopic view of the world where everyone is a bigot because they're not in agreement with you.

    You disgraced yourself with your first response to me, let your proverbial kimono open to let everyone see you for what you are.


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    #121
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Sylvie Slow Underclothes wrote: »
    How sad it must be never to see a friendly smile from a female, in places where this covering-up occurs.
    Is god-given natural beauty so terrible it must be always covered in public?
    Is art and music totally off-limits also, whay about a nice view of a summer landscape?

    Then there is practical everyday considerations e.g. going to the dentist - how will that work out.

    How sad it must be to walk in a street, park, beach and not feel the sun, a warm breeze carring the smell of flowers on the face, wind in your hair, to be recognized as the woman you are, not seen as a black shape, with your personality masked.

    At least we know who has your back.


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