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Dutch "Burqa ban" comes into force from today

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    #212
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Yes. Extremist Islam is a patriarchal religion, nobody would naturally want to hide their entire body and face with just slits for the eyes, and wear black in the desert.

    And you know this through extensive research?


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    #213
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Not really scared of it as it’s not going to affect me as a male. Do you wear one? If not why not?

    Because I'm also male.


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    #214
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Because I'm also male.

    Why should a burqa only be worn by a woman? Wear one in solidarity. Wear one in solidarity in mid summer in Saudi. Full black one.


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    #215
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    And you know this through extensive research?

    You seem to be reticent.


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    #216
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Why should a burqa only be worn by a woman? Wear one in solidarity. Wear one in solidarity in mid summer in Saudi. Full black one.

    Yep. He can claim to identify as Female and wear one in solidarity.


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    #217
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    JohnMc1 wrote: »
    Yep. He can claim to identify as Female and wear one in solidarity.

    No reason to even change his gender. The law doesn’t stop men dressing in a burqa here or in the U.K.


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    #218
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Why should a burqa only be worn by a woman? Wear one in solidarity. Wear one in solidarity in mid summer in Saudi. Full black one.

    Been saudi in 97 and 2001, not a fan of extremely hot weather.

    Will you wear a pink tutu or assless chaps in support og LGBT people at the next pride parade?

    How about black eyeliner in support of Goths?

    See how ridiculous your argument is?

    How does a woman wearing a burqua afgect you and your everyday life?


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    #219
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    You seem to be reticent.

    So that's a no to the question?.


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    #220
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Odhinn wrote: »
    I was thinking of "white men" (english) suppressing others (now considered white) for their catholicism and how well that worked out for them. You jabber on though, don't mind me.

    How did the Shahs banning of the hijab, niqab and the rest work out?

    O right. Just selective religious discrimation we can discuss? My bad, you werent very clear, and a bit off topic

    Theres a subjective answer to that - we both know it , but seeing as they're at the other extreme now - over hijab, maybe we should defer to Iranian women on this?


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    #221
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    O right. Just selective religious discrimation we can discuss? My bad, you werent very clear, and a bit off topic

    Theres a subjective answer to that - we both know it , but seeing as they're at the other extreme now - over hijab, maybe we should defer to Iranian women on this?




    ...or embrace - the admittedly completely insane notion - that people should have the choice?


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    #222
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Been saudi in 97 and 2001, not a fan of extremely hot weather.

    Will you wear a pink tutu or assless chaps in support og LGBT people at the next pride parade?

    How about black eyeliner in support of Goths?

    See how ridiculous your argument is?

    How does a woman wearing a burqua afgect you and your everyday life?

    My argument isn’t ridiculous. And in fact I wouldn’t wear those clothes because they are uncomfortable. However society doesn’t dictate that people dress like that, in fact such clothing is a defiance often enough.

    How does a woman wearing a burka affect me? It doesn’t. I literally said that two posts ago. I’m not a woman.

    Because I’m not a misogynist though I worry about how it affects women.


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    #223
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Odhinn wrote: »
    ...or embrace - the admittedly completely insane notion - that people should have the choice?

    You think Islamic women have the choice? Do you think all decisions made by women in the 1950’s in Ireland were by choice or was the choice say influenced by other forces? Sat Catholicism and/or Patriarchy.


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    #224
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    My argument isn’t ridiculous. And in fact I wouldn’t wear those clothes because they are uncomfortable. However society doesn’t dictate that people dress like that, in fact such clothing is a defiance often enough.

    How does a woman wearing a bureau affect me. It doesn’t. I literally said that two posts ago. I’m not a woman.

    Because I’m not a misogynist though I worry about how it affects women.

    The (rare) next time you see a woman wearing one why not ask her? Instead of assuming they don't want to wear it why not ask them their views?


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    #225
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Can you tell me another section of society that wears the Burqua? If not then you fixed fùck all kiddo.

    Are there not rules in respect of clothes that apply to all people, not just Muslims?

    And if its such an anti Muslim measure, why are Muslim countries adopting similar bans?
    Or is it only when a white mans country does it, its "racism"

    So your post remains fixed "kiddo"


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    #226
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    You think Islamic women have the choice? Do you think all decisions made by women in the 1950’s in Ireland were by choice or was the choice say influenced by other forces? Sat Catholicism and/or Patriarchy.


    In a western society they do indeed have the choice. You do realise just how few women wear the niaqab or burkha in France, out of a muslim population in excess of at least 4 million? It was - as far as I recall - under 400. Not 400, 000, 400.


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    #227
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    The (rare) next time you see a woman wearing one why not ask her? Instead of assuming they don't want to wear it why not ask them their views?

    You still seem reluctant to wear these yourself.

    Of course I could ask a woman in a burqa whether she liked it or not. If allowed to by her male guardian. And she might say yes. This wouldn’t prove much as patriarchical or other powerful or dominant societies often have victims who agree to victimisation.

    A 1950s house wife would defend her role as being subservient too.


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    #228
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Odhinn wrote: »
    In a western society they do indeed have the choice. You do realise just how few women wear the niaqab or burkha in France, out of a muslim population in excess of at least 4 million? It was - as far as I recall - under 400. Not 400, 000, 400.

    What does it matter how few wear them in France? How is that relevant. I would not ban them in Ireland as I said but I think they are an abomination

    I’m arguing with a guy who thinks they are ok, and merely saying they are not.


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    #229
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Odhinn wrote: »
    ...or... choice?

    Ideally all women have a choice
    But we both know how thats going.


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    #230
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Odhinn wrote: »
    In a western society they do indeed have the choice. You do realise just how few women wear the niaqab or burkha in France, out of a muslim population in excess of at least 4 million? It was - as far as I recall - under 400. Not 400, 000, 400.

    And these 400 want to...?


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    #231
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    What does it matter how few wear them in France? How is that relevant. I would not ban them in Ireland as I said but I think they are an abomination

    I’m arguing with a guy who thinks they are ok, and merely saying they are not.




    Because banning them out of hand for a tiny tiny minority is blatant discrimination.


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    #232
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Ideally all women have a choice
    But we both know how thats going.




    We can't refer to western values and choice while denying choice to these people in the matter of a bit of cloth.


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    #233
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Because banning them out of hand for a tiny tiny minority is blatant discrimination.

    Yeh. Wasn’t supporting banning them. That was the very next sentence after the one you bolded. I’m still not accepting that they are ok.

    (Not even sure why France is being brought up but of course it has a very different history to Ireland or the U.K. as it often bans religious symbols).

    This law is Dutch.


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    #234
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Yeh. Wasn’t supporting banning them. That was the very next sentence after the one you bolded. I’m still not accepting that they are ok.

    (Not even sure why France is being brought up but of course it has a very different history to Ireland or the U.K. as it often bans religious symbols).




    It has the biggest muslim population in Europe. The dutch muslim population I'm not as familiar with the numbers offhand.


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    #235
    Sweetemotion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,502 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    KKK%20hood%20McKnight%20315%20%281%29_0.jpg


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    #236
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Are there not rules in respect of clothes that apply to all people, not just Muslims?

    And if its such an anti Muslim measure, why are Muslim countries adopting similar bans?
    Or is it only when a white mans country does it, its "racism"

    So your post remains fixed "kiddo"

    You deleted "Muslim women" from.the post, who other than Muslim women wear it?

    As i said, fixed fùck all.


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    #237
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    You still seem reluctant to wear these yourself.

    I'm also reluctant to wear a habit, a crash helmet or a yarmulke.becaise i am neither a nun, a motor cyclist or a jew.
    Of course I could ask a woman in a burqa whether she liked it or not. If allowed to by her male guardian. And she might say yes. This wouldn’t prove much as patriarchical or other powerful or dominant societies often have victims who agree to victimisation.

    A 1950s house wife would defend her role as being subservient too.

    Not all muslim women are chaperoned, you won't ask becaise the answer you get may shatter your idiotic beliefs.


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    #238
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    You deleted "Muslim women" from.the post, who other than Muslim women wear it?

    As i said, fixed fùck all.

    Rules re cothes and whats acceptable apply to all.

    So yup, fixed


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    #239
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Rules re cothes and whats acceptable apply to all.

    So yup, fixed

    The burqua.is acceptable in ireland so nope, fixed fùck all.

    Now if they banned skinney scrotes walking around topless in Dublin once it hit 15 degrees, thats a ban i could get.on board with!

    Anyway its time for bed, early meeting in Manchester, another day of not worrying about Muslims in a city full of Muslims, how will i ever survive?


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    #240
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Can anyone point to an example of religous discrimination that worked?
    This isn't religious discrimination.
    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Can you tell me another section of society that wears the Burqua? If not then you fixed fùck all kiddo.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_burqa_sect
    The burqua.is acceptable in ireland so nope, fixed fùck all.
    Based on what?
    Now if they banned skinney scrotes walking around topless in Dublin once it hit 15 degrees, thats a ban i could get.on board with!
    Why do topless men scare you so much?
    Anyway its time for bed, early meeting in Manchester, another day of not worrying about Muslims in a city full of Muslims, how will i ever survive?
    Great cover you face for the meeting, since you feel people find it acceptable there should be no issue with it.
    Report back how it went.


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    #241
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    ... early meeting in Manchester, another day of not worrying about Muslims in a city full of Muslims, how will i ever survive?
    Actually you'll survive fine and dandy with not the slightest of worry, as you've stated previously here on boards, that you live in (affulent) Chesire^ county (not Manc, as is alluded to).

    In some town/location/area, (that from memory) you described: 'as white as the whitest town in Ireland back in the 1980's'.
    ‎97.3% ^White
    1.7% Asian
    0.6% Black
    0.4% White Other

    Why not leave such idyllic peaceful mono-ethnicity behind, and move down to embrace Newham or Tower Hamlets so as to enjoy the true pleasures of actual multi-culturism.


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