Trinity college do a deal with United Arab Emirates. UAE have death penalty for LGBT

the culture of deference

Trinity college management should hang their heads in shame. How can they recognise LGBT and then make a deal with these warlords.


As an alumni all I can say is shame on you



Provost of Trinity, Dr Patrick Prendergast, said:

This generous gift from the Al Maktoum Foundation comes at a vital moment in the history of Trinity College’s relationship with the Middle East, its peoples and its cultures. Continuing a long-established tradition of Middle Eastern studies in the history of Trinity College, this generous gift comes at a time when society in Ireland must seize the opportunity to enhance the role which all can play in a pluralistic society. Societal challenges created by multiculturalism also present unique opportunities for engagement and enrichment.

A strategic alliance has been established between Trinity College Dublin and the Al Maktoum College of Higher Education to enhance the development of Middle Eastern Studies in Ireland, and globally, through the establishment of a new Centre for Middle Eastern Studies at Trinity.


Article 354 of the Federal Penal Code of UAE states: "Whoever commits rape on a female or sodomy with a male shall be punished by death."

Article 177 of the Penal Code of Dubai imposes imprisonment of up to 10 years on consensual sodomy.


Mohammed bin Nukhaira Al Dhahiri, Minister of Justice, Islamic Affairs and Auqaf stated, "There will be no room for homosexual and queer acts in the UAE. Our society does not accept queer behaviour, either in word or in action"


https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/trinity-establishes-al-maktoum-centre-for-middle-eastern-studies/

Thelonious Monk

Money trumps everything. See USA's recent 8 billion arms deal with the Saudis, who are wiping out 100s of thousands of poor Yemenis with these lovely toys.

the culture of deference

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Money trumps everything. See USA's recent 8 billion arms deal with the Saudis, who are wiping out 100s of thousands of poor Yemenis with these lovely toys.

Trump overruled congress on the sale.



In march 2019 some survivors of the September 11 attacks and the families of victims have accused the Saudi government of helping the hijackers launch the concurrent attacks in 2001.
They came to the New York court to demand the Saudi government cough up more information - specific documents that survivors of the attacks believe will shed new light on the hijackers.

JupiterKid

Also ashamed as a Trinity alumnus to learn of this.

Very cynical move by TCD...shows that money trumps ethics, especially in these days where the Third Level sector is starved of government funding and increasingly depends on the wealth donations of private benefactors.

If there is to be a protest about this - I'd like to take part.

Buford T Justice

Did we move to the UAE or something?

ToddyDoody

Trinners are winners.

Potential-Monke

Do people still not realise that money controls everything in this world?

gerrybbadd

Titlegore

Hector Savage

JupiterKid wrote: »

Also ashamed as a Trinity alumnus and learn of this.

Very cynical move by TCD...shows that money trumps ethics, especially in these days where the Third Level sector is starved of govt findong and increasingly depends on the wealth donations of private benefactors.

If there is to be a protest about this - I'd like to take part.

Yes, it's the same protest where they call anyone critisizing Islam as a far right nazi racist bigot that is literally Hitler.

Good bit of doublethink for the liberal lunatics.

RobbingBandit

New security for the campus The Police of Vice and Virtue

sabat

As an aside, all of those female Saudi students studying at Trinity, RCSI etc are required to have a male guardian here with them-ie they're not allowed come here to study alone (although some work around it tacitly). It's blatantly illegal for the colleges here to involve themselves in this discriminatory programme but money talks. In the case of Trinity, where the Law and Social studies/access departments seems to specialise in churning out gobby sanctimonious gravy-train riding quangistas the silence is especially hypocritical.

Harvey Weinstein

Might have something to do with this

“As numbers grow, universities are fearful that they will be put in a position where places for Irish students would have to be curtailed or replaced by higher fee-paying international students,”

the culture of deference

sabat wrote: »

As an aside, all of those female Saudi students studying at Trinity, RCSI etc are required to have a male guardian here with them-ie they're not allowed come here to study alone (although some work around it tacitly). It's blatantly illegal for the colleges here to involve themselves in this discriminatory programme but money talks. In the case of Trinity, where the Law and Social studies/access departments seems to specialise in churning out gobby sanctimonious gravy-train riding quangistas the silence is especially hypocritical.

Under Saudi law, all females must have a male guardian. Girls and women are forbidden from traveling, conducting official business, or undergoing certain medical procedures without permission from their male guardians.



In 2012, the Saudi Arabian government implemented a new policy to help with enforcement on the traveling restrictions for women. Under this new policy, Saudi Arabian men receive a text message on their mobile phones whenever a woman under their custody leaves the country, even if she is traveling with her guardian.


The committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice the Mutaween (religious police), will have agents in Ireland observing Saudi women. They have powers similar to the Saudi secret police (mabahith)

the culture of deference

RobbingBandit wrote: »

New security for the campus The Police of Vice and Virtue

nearly


It is the committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice the Mutaween. They will have agents all over the world.



(judean peoples front territory)

granturismo

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Might have something to do with this

“As numbers grow, universities are fearful that they will be put in a position where places for Irish students would have to be curtailed or replaced by higher fee-paying international students,”

Play your race card somewhere else. That just sabre rattling from the IUA, a quango set up and funded by the Irish Universities to drone on about how little funding the universities get from the exchequer. This is a new low from the IUA and the presidents of the universities on €200K+ salaries.

The number of nonnational, nonresident students has increased over the past decade simply because all the third level colleges can charge them increased fees.

granturismo

None of the third level colleges have any qualms in dealing with China and have been doing so for years.

Don't UCD and MU have campuses in China?

JohnnyFlash

Students care more about banning Coca Cola and smoking from the campus than they do stuff like this. It’s slacktavism.

mistersifter

Don't be fooled by the fact that academics tend to spend their time speaking out against social injustice and promoting diversity.

The people that run these places do not give a single f*ck about anything other than money.

suicide_circus

so are we going to see gay students given a hundred lashes on the cobbles of the front square?

sabat

suicide_circus wrote: »

so are we going to see gay students given a hundred lashes on the cobbles of the front square?

The S&M Soc. already did that for Freshers' Week.

Harry Palmr

suicide_circus wrote: »

so are we going to see gay students given a hundred lashes on the cobbles of the front square?

ooh matron!

Harry Palmr

Seriously though this is just the sort of crass money grubbing strategy that academic institutes will employ as long as education is so poorly funded by the state.

Christy42

sabat wrote: »

As an aside, all of those female Saudi students studying at Trinity, RCSI etc are required to have a male guardian here with them-ie they're not allowed come here to study alone (although some work around it tacitly). It's blatantly illegal for the colleges here to involve themselves in this discriminatory programme but money talks. In the case of Trinity, where the Law and Social studies/access departments seems to specialise in churning out gobby sanctimonious gravy-train riding quangistas the silence is especially hypocritical.

Would you rather prevent them from leaving their own country to study? Because they are your two options from the University point of view. As you say this allows them at least a chance to get away from the harsh guardian laws a bit.

It is a Saudi point, Trinity/RCSI can't get rid of it. At best they can stop them coming over which does not seem like an improvement.

sabat

Christy42 wrote: »

Would you rather prevent them from leaving their own country to study? Because they are your two options from the University point of view. As you say this allows them at least a chance to get away from the harsh guardian laws a bit.

It is a Saudi point, Trinity/RCSI can't get rid of it. At best they can stop them coming over which does not seem like an improvement.

As I said, it's probably illegal for universities to participate in the programme at all, as long as it differentiates between male and female students. From the perspective of the rest of the country, they have effectively given the green light for Sharia law to apply on Irish soil, so for the greater good I would refuse to allow any Saudi students here until they change this requirement.

Balanadan

Thankfully, I had the intellectual capacity to decide not to attend Trinity.

Christy42

sabat wrote: »

As I said, it's probably illegal for universities to participate in the programme at all, as long as it differentiates between male and female students. From the perspective of the rest of the country, they have effectively given the green light for Sharia law to apply on Irish soil, so for the greater good I would refuse to allow any Saudi students here until they change this requirement.

"Probably"? I doubt Trinity treats them differently. They will just happen to unenroll if a guardian is not coming over.

I am sure the regime will massively care that these women will not be educated or will be educated in a place their every move is tracked in Saudi (and we're they don't get exposed to Western idealologies). I am sure the women who no longer have access to the same foreign education the men can will also thank you for curtailing their options in life.


I get it, you hate the Saudi regime. They are utter scum but you are trying to engineer an outcome the regime would prefer (no contact with foreign liberal idealologies) and actively punishing the women already hurt by this regime. A high horse is not worth hurting innocents.

Amirani

It's a link with a university in the UAE, not some deal with the Government of the United Arab Emirates.

Are you going to level the same criticism at all the Irish teachers and nurses currently working in Dubai? Or anyone who gets a flight connection with Emirates or Ethiad on their trips to Australia or Thailand?

vriesmays

They also gave an award in 2017 to an historian who faked her relatives getting killed in the holocaust.

the culture of deference

vriesmays wrote: »

They also gave an award in 2017 to an historian who faked her relatives getting killed in the holocaust.

yes, then she killed herself

Harry Palmr

Amirani wrote: »

It's a link with a university in the UAE, not some deal with the Government of the United Arab Emirates.

Are you going to level the same criticism at all the Irish teachers and nurses currently working in Dubai? Or anyone who gets a flight connection with Emirates or Ethiad on their trips to Australia or Thailand?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_bin_Rashid_Al_Maktoum_Foundation

On May 19, 2007, Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, announced his plans to give 10 billion USD to set up the Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum Foundation, an educational foundation in the Middle East. This was one of the largest charitable donations in history.[1] Sheikh Mohammed stated that the money is meant to bridge the knowledge gap between the Arab region and the developed world,[2]

Richard Hillman

I'm sure they will be the first to tell us that Donald Trump is literally Hitler too, whilst taking the Emirati cash

vriesmays

A post on Trinity College's website congratulating Hingst on her blogging prize in 2017 was removed.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7309995/Marie-Sophie-Hingst-dead-lied-related-Holocaust-victims.html

Amirani

Harry Palmr wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_bin_Rashid_Al_Maktoum_Foundation

Yeah, they own and fund the Emirates airline as well.

Don't suppose you or anyone you know has ever availed of their services? Suppose Dublin Airport should be criticised for "doing a deal" with them by having twice daily flights with such an airline?

Harry Palmr

Call me old fashioned but seats of secular learning should not be in bed with something that ought be seen as intrinsically antipathetic to same.

JupiterKid

Unfortunately this is the sad outcome of the implementation of the free third level education for Irish students policy by then Rainbow Coalition Education Minister Niamh Breathnach in 1994.

It was a well-meaning and lofty objective and doubtless helped releive the financial burden on students and their families (although research has shown that it did not really open up third level education to the most deprived sections of Irish society) - but an unintended effect is the sharp reduction in central govt funding for third level resulting in universities and colleges pimpimg themselves out to very wealthy benefactors....


...where there are always strings attached.

Sure RCSI is mainly funded by Middle Eastern governments. It's probably the most innovative and well-resourced medical school in Ireland. Not only does this benefit Ireland, in terms of medical facilities and medical research, the College is hugely pro-equality and emphasizes inclusion of all people. I am pretty sure they were the first college in Dublin to introduce gender-neutral bathrooms a number of years back.

Quite an unusually high amount of its grads have become Presidents, Prime Ministers, Ministers and other leading figures back in their home countries, and it's no harm at all for them to have experienced that kind of environment.

There are lesbians, gay people etc openly living their lives in RCSI who would never have been able to have that kind of life in Malaysia or Saudi. It's very hard for them or their friends to return home and adhere to a primitive worldview after that, so they go home and hopefully ask questions about their society when they are in positions of leadership. But change happens slowly.

I say take the money, and follow the example of RCSI.

Edgware

Waiting for those paragons of left wing liberalism Trinity wage earners Robinson, Bacik and Norris to condemn the deal

the culture of deference

Amirani wrote: »

Yeah, they own and fund the Emirates airline as well.

Don't suppose you or anyone you know has ever availed of their services? Suppose Dublin Airport should be criticised for "doing a deal" with them by having twice daily flights with such an airline?

Dublin airport support LGBT but will not challenge emirates because of the money they have.


All LGBT platitudes sound great, in 2017 Leo Varadkar promised to push for LGBT rights in Ireland and around the world, that under his leadership, Ireland "will be the voice for toleration, respect and equality around the world".



"And speaking of freedom - under my leadership this country won’t shirk our responsibilities on the international stage and we will be the voice for toleration, respect and equality around the world."


yea yea yea leo

wiggle16

sabat wrote: »

As an aside, all of those female Saudi students studying at Trinity, RCSI etc are required to have a male guardian here with them-ie they're not allowed come here to study alone (although some work around it tacitly). It's blatantly illegal for the colleges here to involve themselves in this discriminatory programme but money talks. In the case of Trinity, where the Law and Social studies/access departments seems to specialise in churning out gobby sanctimonious gravy-train riding quangistas the silence is especially hypocritical.

I used to work for Trinity and yup to all the above. Lovely ladies all of them, with brains to burn, with their thick-as-pig**** little brothers having to co-sign every document for them and send it back to the embassy. Often the male chaperone could not even speak English. It was really demeaning, girls 3 years younger than them could sign their own forms, they needed a man with them to do everything.

sabat

sabat wrote: »

As an aside, all of those female Saudi students studying at Trinity, RCSI etc are required to have a male guardian here with them-ie they're not allowed come here to study alone (although some work around it tacitly). It's blatantly illegal for the colleges here to involve themselves in this discriminatory programme but money talks.

In fairness though, I think that's only Saudi.

Plenty of single female Kuwati, Emirati, Bahrainian women etc studying alone in Dublin. I know for sure some have been presidents of student societies, which is a position of leadership they might not always enjoy at home.

kikilarue2

As an aside, and not that it makes it a whole pile better - the thread title is a little misleading. In the OPs own opening post he shows that death is the penalty for rape or anal rape, while a long prison sentence is the punishment for consensual gay sex.

paw patrol

why must every action be seen in the context of LGBT?

There are other bad situations in the world but nothing raises the ire of the righteous like upsetting the LGBT

take everything

As someone who attends Trinity, the place is seriously dysfunctional.

The queuing for twenty minutes before an exam for the cloakroom farce this year told me everything I suspected.

And the students duly lined up. Couldn't believe it. Instead of calling out the bull****.

It's basically a factory (memorise past papers and get a first) with no real interest in students understanding stuff.

I'm always amazed at how poor some of the TAs are in the place. They literally don't have a clue about the most basic stuff.

And there are some seriously poor lecturers with no enthusiasm for educating. What with trying to stay in the top 100.

And then this from a widely disliked and out of touch Provost. Engineer by training IIRC. Likes to burnish his SJW credentials (the Freshman crap last year was beyond parody) on a daily basis but he knows what side his bread is buttered judging by this Saudi stuff.

/End rant

Having said that , the grounds and buildings are beautiful.

wiggle16

paw patrol wrote: »

why must every action be seen in the context of LGBT?

There are other bad situations in the world but nothing raises the ire of the righteous like upsetting the LGBT

Whataboutery.

smurfjed

As an aside, all of those female Saudi students studying at Trinity, RCSI etc are required to have a male guardian here with them-ie they're not allowed come here to study alone (although some work around it tacitly). It's blatantly illegal for the colleges here to involve themselves in this discriminatory programme but money talks. In the case of Trinity, where the Law and Social studies/access departments seems to specialise in churning out gobby sanctimonious gravy-train riding quangistas the silence is especially hypocritical.

Im sure that you realise that the Saudi government pays not only for them to be in Ireland but also for that chaperone?

Christy42

I am sure the regime will massively care that these women will not be educated or will be educated in a place their every move is tracked in Saudi (and we're they don't get exposed to Western idealologies). I am sure the women who no longer have access to the same foreign education the men can will also thank you for curtailing their options in life.

You obviously have no clue about life in Saudi Arabia these days.

Christy42

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Call me old fashioned but seats of secular learning should not be in bed with something that ought be seen as intrinsically antipathetic to same.

Hardly an old timy view?

I mean they have a church on campus which seems pretty in bed with the church of Ireland so I am guessing that is not your complaint?

This seems like the best use possible of UAE money. I mean may as well fund it to help an Irish college as anything else they would do with it.

Not likely students are being forced to have the UAE value system (indeed UAE are in effect funding something very much against their value system which seems like a bonus to me).

paw patrol

paw patrol wrote: »

There are other bad situations in the world but nothing raises the ire of the righteous like upsetting the LGBT

I suppose if you have family and friends living normal lives as gay people here, and you go to their weddings or sit beside them in work every day, it's hard to process the idea that that there are people exactly like them, who live just a few hours away, face arbitrary terms of imprisonment; the exact same goes for anyone with a mother or sisters, you're talking about gross violations of people who were unlucky enough to be considered inferior, yet they live down the road, and are just like our relations.

Yes, there are plenty of bad situations in the world. Penalty points, arriving at Superquinn after they've closed, and rainy weather are just some examples. Yet almost nobody says 'oh shut up' when we gripe about those things. Yet women's rights, etc, raise special ire as though it's "virtue-signalling". Lets have perspective.

paw patrol

wiggle16 wrote: »

Whataboutery.

wha?

take everything

take everything wrote: »

As someone who attends Trinity, the place is seriously dysfunctional.

The queuing for twenty minutes before an exam for the cloakroom farce this year told me everything I suspected.

And the students duly lined up. Couldn't believe it. Instead of calling out the bull****.

I know what each word means but... what?

Are you conflating a cloackroom queue with ethical questions surrounding UAE investment/ human rights abuse?

EmmetSpiceland

paw patrol wrote: »

wha?

Aboutery.

mikhail

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Money trumps everything. See USA's recent 8 billion arms deal with the Saudis, who are wiping out 100s of thousands of poor Yemenis with these lovely toys.

Yeah. The Irish government hasn't restored the cuts to core grants to universities it made during the banking crisis. The universities have responded by targeting foreign money. We are getting exactly what we pay for here.