Ownership and sale - uncooperative family

Psychiatric Patrick

Hello.

New to discussion boards and I hope this is being posted in the correct place.

I’m waiting on a solicitor to call me back but who knows how long that will take so I’m just looking for some folks more knowledgeable than me.

Years ago my uncle went into a nursing home but had very, very little money and I was happy to help out but he wouldn’t take it except if I bought some land he owned that he, my father and his brothers had inherited. I don’t remember why he didn’t just sell it (maybe keep it in the family or such).

I had always hated living in the area and never thought it was worth anything unless the rest was sold (and my father was never going to do that) so I just forgot about it.

A few months ago my father told me he was selling and I said straightaway to include my section. I know nothing about the business of selling so expect to have sign something at some stage. When nothing more was said I assumed another case of my father dragging his feet.

My wife passed the area yesterday and saw a for sale sign. It is typical my father wouldn’t tell me so I assumed he was again dragging his feet getting me to include my section. My wife looked it up on the auctioneers site and only one section is mentioned. Something didn’t feel right so I made a phone call this morning to the auctioneer. The man who answered told me both areas are for sale but one is not being listed on the website at the owners request.

I called to my parents and asked my father what the story was. We’ve never got along and lately it has got actually bad after a few arguments and he he has taken to ignoring me. The fact he was back to his usual self if just no straight answers has alarms bells ringing that something weird is going on. I couldn’t say more without involving my mother in a fight.

After that I was starting to doubt I owned the land - it was 20 years ago and maybe it was not as I remember it but my father approached me about the sale so I must have some claim. Yet how can it go up for sale if I do own it and why is it not being listed.

I know it sounds weird that I cannot get a straight answer but my father and sisters (most of) have some undiagnosed issues as well being asshats (I’ve had my self treated for the same issues) but everyone thinks they are great and right and in fact they are the opposite. It could very well be the case that my father is doing exactly what we agreed to and for all I know I don’t need to be involved until offers start showing up but he would never just come out and say it.

Anyway I contacted the solicitor firm who was involved in the transfer back then and I think they were involved in something related to the preparation for this sale. I’m waiting for their lands and deeds guy to call me back. As I said who knows when that will be. So can anyone advise me? Can anyone give me an educated guess as to what might be happening?

Psychiatric Patrick

My father and some of my sisters are so difficult to deal with that honestly I’d just as soon let him carry on with whatever is happening whether it is shifty or not.

It isn’t that we loaded ourselves, but my wife and I would be just fine if the land was never sold. However the only sister I do get along with is (I suspect) struggling more with money than she is letting in and I could use the money to help her out. The rest I’d give to my mother to do all the work her house needs that my father won’t finish.

partyguinness

Next step is very simple. Check the land registry for the ownership details.

Psychiatric Patrick

partyguinness wrote: »

Next step is very simple. Check the land registry for the ownership details.

I never even thought of that.

I got a call back from the solicitors' firm. They have documents and asked for time to gather them but if I understand what she said correctly is that I did give a verbal agreement which is why it could b put up for sale. I simply don't need to concern myself unless offers start coming in and contracts need to be signed. The money will go to me without question.

I was embarrassed had to contact them at all but she said if families where not so difficult half their business would be gone.

Edgware

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

I never even thought of that.

I got a call back from the solicitors' firm. They have documents and asked for time to gather them but if I understand what she said correctly is that I did give a verbal agreement which is why it could b put up for sale. I simply don't need to concern myself unless offers start coming in and contracts need to be signed. The money will go to me without question.

I was embarrassed had to contact them at all but she said if families where not so difficult half their business would be gone.

When you do get the money have a good think about what you will do with it.
Investing it in your parents home when you clearly have issues with yourfatherdoes not make sense. If your mother dies first he has the house with the benefit of your investment.
He is then likely to leave it to your awkward sisters in his will.

Psychiatric Patrick

Edgware wrote: »

When you do get the money have a good think about what you will do with it.
Investing it in your parents home when you clearly have issues with yourfatherdoes not make sense. If your mother dies first he has the house with the benefit of your investment.
He is then likely to leave it to your awkward sisters in his will.

I was rambling a bit there. My parents have money just my father is an ass.

I'll help my sister, the rest will be for own kids.

It seems to have been up for sale for a while and don't think there is any interest out there in it. Might do better if they listed my section too.

drunkmonkey

You'll miss him when he's gone, try and sort it out with him, sit down and watch a bit of TV or go out and walk the land. Your probably just like him in a lot of ways it's probably why you don't get on.

partyguinness

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

I never even thought of that.

I got a call back from the solicitors' firm. They have documents and asked for time to gather them but if I understand what she said correctly is that I did give a verbal agreement which is why it could b put up for sale. I simply don't need to concern myself unless offers start coming in and contracts need to be signed. The money will go to me without question.

I was embarrassed had to contact them at all but she said if families where not so difficult half their business would be gone.

Hold on (and correct me if I am wrong).

The Estate Agent has put a property up for sale without the express written consent of all the owners?

It is somewhat traditional to send T&Cs etc, verify ID, money laundering checks and have a signed Agency agreement in place with a seller.

What type of half arsed operation is it? I thought Ireland was more professional these days or are the rural back waters still the same.

OP stop pussy footing around and start throwing your weight around and start demanding answers.

Psychiatric Patrick

partyguinness wrote: »

Hold on (and correct me if I am wrong).

The Estate Agent has put a property up for sale without the express written consent of all the owners?

It is somewhat traditional to send T&Cs etc, verify ID, money laundering checks and have a signed Agency agreement in place with a seller.

What type of half arsed operation is it? I thought Ireland was more professional these days or are the rural back waters still the same.

OP stop pussy footing around and start throwing your weight around and start demanding answers.

It isn't in the "rural back water" and there is no pussy footing.

It is difficult to understand unless you can be there to watch but the fact he was only evasive and then walked away is astounding. He has the ability to not respond at all.

The solicitor didn't seem to find it unusual that it was up for sale without me being directly involved.

Once I find exactly what I own then I'll get it listed myself.

JeffKenna

Go onto landdirect.ie and check who owns the land. You have to pay €5 for each search but you'll know instantly.

Psychiatric Patrick

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You'll miss him when he's gone, try and sort it out with him, sit down and watch a bit of TV or go out and walk the land. Your probably just like him in a lot of ways it's probably why you don't get on.

Believe me everything has been tried.

And yes we are very a like but the difference is I'm aware of the flaws and of when I'm wrong.

Everything bad in the family is very, very easily rectified but it it will never happen when they are oblivious to it all. Those sisters don't seem to even be aware they do not trust or look down on each other.

I didn't mean to turn this into a relationship issues thread - I was trying to give context and got carried away. Posting here did give some relief though.

Psychiatric Patrick

JeffKenna wrote: »

Go onto landdirect.ie and check who owns the land. You have to pay €5 for each search but you'll know instantly.

Found out about that last night but the solicitor has everything but I missed the call earlier.

Just waiting for her to have free time to call me back.

Psychiatric Patrick

I have confirmed what is mine.

I had assumed that my eldest sister did all the work in getting the auctioneers, showing my father what to do, etc. She gets seriously carried away when involved in anything and I honestly do not know if she simple forgot to include me in any discussion in her eagerness to get my father to sell his or if she didn't include me because she somehow thinks I'm not entitled to it.

Anyway I will collect the documents on Tuesday morning and go the auctioneers straight after. I'll find out there how it was put up for sale without my direct involvement. Based on that answer I decide whether to get them to list it or if I'll go with another firm.

I did find out the price they have on it. Not as much as I thought but my eldest sister is at least reliable in regards to something like getting the best price on it.

Mrs OBumble

I'd suggest getting your own independent legal advice sooner rather than later.








And you may or may not miss him when he's gone. Don't take any notice of platitudes.

Edgware

The fact that you own a section may be worth a premium to you. If you withdrew consent to sale the rest of the land may not be as attractive to a purchaser thus reducing its value.

padd b1975

Do you have a folio number?

Dolbhad

If relations are bad, it might be worth getting your own solicitor separate to your father to deal with the contracts etc for your piece of land or least look over anything his solicitor has drafted. Just so if there are any arguments the two solicitors can deal with it, rather than you and your dad.

I also echo other solicitors. I would have thought auctioneer would have needed your consent or details to even go about selling the land. I would also be instructing auctioneer to keep you updated directly on the sale.

JJJackal

If there is obvious disagreement over the land, it may be more difficult to sell/drive down price.

People dont want the hassle - unless its a prime location for building a load of houses or apartments

Psychiatric Patrick

Edgware wrote: »

The fact that you own a section may be worth a premium to you. If you withdrew consent to sale the rest of the land may not be as attractive to a purchaser thus reducing its value.

Yes I was thinking that if I went with a different auctioneer (just to make a point) that it would complicate any sale.

Seems to be complicated enough that it is not listed.

Psychiatric Patrick

padd b1975 wrote: »

Do you have a folio number?

Ownership has been confirmed and I will collect the documents tomorrow.

Psychiatric Patrick

JJJackal wrote: »

If there is obvious disagreement over the land, it may be more difficult to sell/drive down price.

People dont want the hassle - unless its a prime location for building a load of houses or apartments

It has been said that a house can fit on my section but I’ve always doubted that.

Not really an area for apartments.

Any seller will be blissfully unaware of the hassle.

Psychiatric Patrick

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'd suggest getting your own independent legal advice sooner rather than later.

Dolbhad wrote: »

If relations are bad, it might be worth getting your own solicitor separate to your father to deal with the contracts etc for your piece of land or least look over anything his solicitor has drafted. Just so if there are any arguments the two solicitors can deal with it, rather than you and your dad.

I also echo other solicitors. I would have thought auctioneer would have needed your consent or details to even go about selling the land. I would also be instructing auctioneer to keep you updated directly on the sale.

Do you mean go to different firm?

I thought it might be easiest to use the same firm but I don’t mind going elsewhere.

Seth Brundle

Does your parcel of land have road or right of way access or is it effectively landlocked?
Does it need to be included in with your father's sale or could it easily be sold separately?

Psychiatric Patrick

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And you may or may not miss him when he's gone. Don't take any notice of platitudes.

What do you mean? Whose platitudes?

Psychiatric Patrick

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Does your parcel of land have road or right of way access or is it effectively landlocked?
Does it need to be included in with your father's sale or could it easily be sold separately?

It is being sold separately and there is access but I can’t believe anyone would want it on its own.

utmbuilder

i hope it all works out for you. some familys simply dont get on. you sound like a good guy.

remember "the field" and bull mccabe, people have been fighting about land since the start of time.

Psychiatric Patrick

padd b1975 wrote: »

Do you have a folio number?

I meant ownership had already been confirmed on Friday.

Psychiatric Patrick

utmbuilder wrote: »

i hope it all works out for you. some familys simply dont get on. you sound like a good guy.

remember "the field" and bull mccabe, people have been fighting about land since the start of time.

If it was fighting over the land I would welcome it - at least it would be normal and make sense with some hope of a solution.

shenanagans

When selling a house the seller must provide the auctioneer with ID and proof of address this is required by legislation. This has been my recent experience. I was told its required by property authority.

Surely its the same with selling land.

Your dad must have signed an agreement with the auctioneer. With fee, terms etc outlined. The auctioneer must believe you dad to be the sole owner of you weren't contacted for you ID, proof of address and agreement.

I'd be suspicious of what the auctioneer has been told by you dad/sister.

My experience has been that the auctioneer won't put the property up for sale without owners documents (ID, POA). They are allowed to!

Dolbhad

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Do you mean go to different firm?

I thought it might be easiest to use the same firm but I don’t mind going elsewhere.

Yes go with a different firm. Your dad’s firm can draft everything to keep costs down and your solicitor can review everything and you sign with them. Will incur legal costs but least then if any issues arise, it can be for the solicitors to sort out between themselves rather than you.