Trump considering a blockade of Venezuela with naval ships

Cheerful Spring2

Of course the narrative from some people US is not involved in helping Guido overthrow Maduro, well the truth finally out now. They were behind this unrest all the time.

Trump now seriously considering a blockade, and naval ships will be involved.

If anyone else, i would not make another thread, but trump is the president of the united states and he has power to make it happen.

Wait and see if changes his mind, but he said it and a blockade is act of war.

White house editor for Bloomberg.
https://twitter.com/aawayne/status/1157027139838984192

Overheal

/destabilizes Venezuela

See folks socialism doesn't work.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Of course the narrative from some people US is not involved in helping Guido overthrow Maduro, well the truth finally out now. They were behind this unrest all the time.


If anyone else, i would not make another thread,

So the starving population are what faking

ILoveYourVibes

Why?

And also yeah right. He is always all talk.

InTheShadows

Trump 2020. Keep America Great

Gatling

So trump was asked a question which he replied

(Another there's not going to be a war thread for the op )


U.S. President Donald Trump said on Thursday he is considering a quarantine or blockade of Venezuela, as the United States steps up pressure on President Nicolas Maduro to relinquish power.

Asked by a reporter whether he was considering such a measure given the amount of involvement by China and Iran in Venezuela, Trump said: "Yes, I am."

SeanW

Overheal wrote: »

/destabilizes Venezuela

See folks socialism doesn't work.

I would have thought that 100 million dead bodies in the 20th century showed that socialism doesn't work. Because between the Kims of North Korea, Chairman Mao, Uncle Joe Stalin, Pol Pot etc, that's how many people died. But hey, maybe the socialists will get it right if we let them murder another 100,000,000 people.

As to Venezuela, there are plenty of reasons why it's a mess, and it has nothing to do with U.S. intervention - but the Russians, Chinese and Iranians are interfering to their hearts content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUltZmKqfmM

In case you can't see the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUltZmKqfmM

• Getting people addicted to free stuff
• Betting everything on oil prices.
• Removing most all incentives for private business.
• etc.
• Then interference by evil dictatorships like Iran and PRC.

Or you can just stick your fingers in your ears and blame capitalists/capitalism.

Overheal

All valid points, I was just making a snide remark about US interventionism, seasoned with rightwing animus toward anything remotely 'socialist.'

biko

Nice backtrack Overheal

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

So the starving population are what faking

There is homeless and starving people in the United states. We must invade according to your doctrine?

Intervention is hardly going to solve it. You going to kills millions just to take over a country and install some puppet regime. US wars in the middle east have not helped the situation and brought democracy.

SeanW

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

There is homeless and starving people in the United states. We must invade according to your doctrine?

Intervention is hardly going to solve it. You going to kills millions just to take over a country and install some puppet regime. US wars in the middle east have not helped the situation and brought democracy.

The main reason people are homeless or hungry in the US is because they don't have their sh*t together. The US has an extensive welfare system and private charity, most of the "homeless" are drug addicted or have mental issues.

A lot of the places that the US has been involved with have done very well afterwards. For example:

All of Western Europe
Japan
South Korea
Chile

In the latter case, yes Pinochet was a bit of an SOB, but Chile today is one of the few Latin American countries that is not an impoverished hellscape.

Besides, the legitimate successor that would most certainly be installed is already known: Juan Guaidó. Oh and the current regime is in the pockets of (among other nasties) drug-dealing terrorists. There's no reason to believe that allowing the Maduro regime to continue will lead to anything good for anyone except for Hezbollah and the murderers and dictators in charge of Iran, Russia and China.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You going to kills millions just to take over a country and install some puppet regime.

Who's going to kill millions ?

Who's said we're are invading.

notobtuse

I guess Trump should just continue to allow Venezuela’s women and children to starve to death?

Cheerful Spring2

SeanW wrote: »

The main reason people are homeless or hungry in the US is because they don't have their sh*t together. The US has an extensive welfare system and private charity, most of the "homeless" are drug addicted or have mental issues.

A lot of the places that the US has been involved with have done very well afterwards. For example:

All of Western Europe
Japan
South Korea
Chile

In the latter case, yes Pinochet was a bit of an SOB, but Chile today is one of the few Latin American countries that is not an impoverished hellscape.

Besides, the legitimate successor that would most certainly be installed is already known: Juan Guaidó. Oh and the current regime is in the pockets of (among other nasties) drug-dealing terrorists. There's no reason to believe that allowing the Maduro regime to continue will lead to anything good for anyone except for Hezbollah and the murderers and dictators in charge of Iran, Russia and China.

Official poverty stats say 40 million US residents, lack food, clothes and shelter. That lot of people to be suffering poverty when United States is the richest country on earth. Official stats often paint a rosier picture of the situation also. They can't get their **** together is a very simplistic way of thinking about this, there many factors why people struggle lack of jobs in their community and lack of community help, someone to talk to can help them. Calling them all drunks and addicts is a right-wing way of thinking. You find often find they end up homeless because they have know money to pay rent.

No offensive Japan and most of Western Europe states were economically well off before WW2. They weren't **** holes that America saved and brought freedom to. South Korea got some help, but the South Korean people are smart and capable people they done it all on their own mostly. Chile, i have not looked into to comment.

Guido was never elected by the people, he was only given legitimacy by way of the elite in Venezelua and the Trump administration. Maduro is the legitimate president elected by vote and elections.

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

Who's going to kill millions ?

Who's said we're are invading.

I would think blockading a country coast with ships is an act of war. Venezuela would have to react to this and what do you think happens next?

notobtuse

Too bad Trump hasn’t tried alternative methods FIRST to ward off people starving to death and dying for lack of medical treatment, like sending Food and Medical Supplies for their people. Oh, wait…

Cheerful Spring2

Donald Trump is serious about a possible U.S. blockade of Venezuela, a senior administration official said Friday, saying that the country’s president Nicolas Maduro has a short window to voluntarily leave power.

Trump told reporters on Thursday that he was considering a blockade or quarantine of the Latin American country, where the U.S. has been trying for months to unseat Maduro. He didn’t elaborate.

But the official said Trump’s statement should be taken seriously and is the direction U.S. policy is headed with regard to Venezuela. The official asked not to be identified as a condition of participation in a briefing for reporters.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-02/u-s-headed-toward-blockade-of-venezuela-trump-official-says

Elmer Blooker

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Donald Trump is serious about a possible U.S. blockade of Venezuela, a senior administration official said Friday, saying that the country’s president Nicolas Maduro has a short window to voluntarily leave power.

Plan B.
Good to see that the campaign by 'popular' opposition 'leader' Juan Guaido has been a great success.

ArchXStanton

notobtuse wrote: »

I guess Trump should just continue to allow Venezuela’s women and children to starve to death?

If he was that worried about them he'd lift the sanctions... But sure when has the US given a fiddlers about human life... Only when it suits their regime change agenda it would seem

SeanW

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I would think blockading a country coast with ships is an act of war. Venezuela would have to react to this and what do you think happens next?

Hah! That's a joke. Venezuela react? The Venezuelan socialist military is only battle tested against unarmed civilian protesters and aid trucks "armed" only with food and medicine for sick children. Against literally any kind of actual military force, I suspect it they would have a bit more difficulty. (Warning, the first video I linked to is disturbing).

Maduros thugs are good for murdering civilians and keeping food and medicine from sick and starving children. I doubt they're good for much else. If there were any response, it would come from Hezbollah, who have turned the country into a base for drug running and terrorism, or their allies in Iran, Russia and the PRC.

ArchXStanton wrote: »

If he was that worried about them he'd lift the sanctions... But sure when has the US given a fiddlers about human life... Only when it suits their regime change agenda it would seem

Except that they literally tried to send food and medicine - no questions asked - for the sick and hungry in Venezuela, but the trucks were burned out by Maduros thugs. But please, keep defending murderers, terrorists and dictators. That's is disturbing, but not surprising.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Official poverty stats say 40 million US residents, lack food, clothes and shelter. That lot of people to be suffering poverty when United States is the richest country on earth. Official stats often paint a rosier picture of the situation also. They can't get their **** together is a very simplistic way of thinking about this, there many factors why people struggle lack of jobs in their community and lack of community help, someone to talk to can help them. Calling them all drunks and addicts is a right-wing way of thinking. You find often find they end up homeless because they have know money to pay rent.

If "whataboutism" were an Olympic sport, you would win the gold medal. Easily.

In the United States:

• People can choose their leaders.
• The US doesn't murder unarmed protesters.
• Most people are doing OK.
• According to the Brookings Institute, you only need to do three things in the US to avoid permanent poverty. 1) Finish High (Secondary) school. 2) Don't have children until you are married, at least at the age of 21. 3) Get a job.
• Extensive welfare systems, homeless shelters, food banks and soup kitchens are available to people who fall on hard times.
• Millions of people are trying to get in at the Southern border.

In Venezuela:

• A dictatorship.
• The government regularly murders unarmed protesters.
• Most people are in absolute deprivation.
• A great many people have fled or would like to flee.

No offensive Japan and most of Western Europe states were economically well off before WW2. They weren't **** holes that America saved and brought freedom to.

Germany was a hellhole. Its people were living in dire poverty and were broken as a people between WWI and 1933, which is why they followed the mustachioed madman to the threshold of hell. The Nazis in turn, turned most of Europe into a ****hole. Japan was also not really a nice place, as their adventures in Nanking showed. It's a lot different better now.

Racially, the Japanese people of today who make Toyota cars, write anime, and have Pikachu invasions in their elevators in places like Yokohama, are the same as the people who in raped and murdered up to half a million people in Nanjing, the only difference is that today, the Japanese are guided by much better ideas than in the past. That happened after World War II and was at least in part due to American intervention.

South Korea got some help, but the South Korean people are smart and capable people they done it all on their own mostly.

Pretty sure if you were on the right you would already have been damned as a racist for saying this, because it implies that the South Korean people are different intellectually for racial reasons than people elsewhere and of other races.

The only non-racist explanation for why South Korea went from poverty to first world country in a short time is because they had significant help, guidance and employed sensible economic strategies. It's also the only logical explanation for why North Korea descended from just being poor to being an absolute hellscape of starvation, abject poverty, repression and terror in such a short time.

Any other explanation is not only racist (as that term is understood today), but totally at variance with reality.

ArchXStanton

SeanW wrote: »

Hah! That's a joke. Venezuela react? The Venezuelan socialist military is only battle tested against unarmed civilian protesters and aid trucks "armed" only with food and medicine for sick children. Against literally any kind of actual military force, I suspect it they would have a bit more difficulty. (Warning, the first video I linked to is disturbing).

Maduros thugs are good for murdering civilians and keeping food and medicine from sick and starving children. I doubt they're good for much else. If there were any response, it would come from Hezbollah, who have turned the country into a base for drug running and terrorism, or their allies in Iran, Russia and the PRC.

Except that they literally tried to send food and medicine - no questions asked - for the sick and hungry in Venezuela, but the trucks were burned out by Maduros thugs. But please, keep defending murderers, terrorists and dictators. That's is disturbing, but not surprising.


If "whataboutism" were an Olympic sport, you would win the gold medal. Easily.

In the United States:

• People can choose their leaders.
• The US doesn't murder unarmed protesters.
• Most people are doing OK.
• According to the Brookings Institute, you only need to do three things in the US to avoid permanent poverty. 1) Finish High (Secondary) school. 2) Don't have children until you are married, at least at the age of 21. 3) Get a job.
• Extensive welfare systems, homeless shelters, food banks and soup kitchens are available to people who fall on hard times.
• Millions of people are trying to get in at the Southern border.

In Venezuela:

• A dictatorship.
• The government regularly murders unarmed protesters.
• Most people are in absolute deprivation.
• A great many people have fled or would like to flee.

Germany was a hellhole. Its people were living in dire poverty and were broken as a people between WWI and 1933, which is why they followed the mustachioed madman to the threshold of hell. The Nazis in turn, turned most of Europe into a ****hole. Japan was also not really a nice place, as their adventures in Nanking showed. It's a lot different better now.

Racially, the Japanese people of today who make Toyota cars, write anime, and have Pikachu invasions in their elevators in places like Yokohama, are the same as the people who in raped and murdered up to half a million people in Nanjing, the only difference is that today, the Japanese are guided by much better ideas than in the past. That happened after World War II and was at least in part due to American intervention.

Pretty sure if you were on the right you would already have been damned as a racist for saying this, because it implies that the South Korean people are different intellectually for racial reasons than people elsewhere and of other races.

The only non-racist explanation for why South Korea went from poverty to first world country in a short time is because they had significant help, guidance and employed sensible economic strategies. It's also the only logical explanation for why North Korea descended from just being poor to being an absolute hellscape of starvation, abject poverty, repression and terror in such a short time.

Any other explanation is not only racist (as that term is understood today), but totally at variance with reality.

I'd say that "food and aid" was loaded with weaponry for the opposition... The US seemed to have a problem with the Chinese sending medicine and aid, in fact just last week Pompeo was telling China, Russia, Cuba to stay out of Venezuela.... But its a-OK for the US to be meddling there..

SeanW

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I'd say that "food and aid" was loaded with weaponry for the opposition... The US seemed to have a problem with the Chinese sending medicine and aid, in fact just last week Pompeo was telling China, Russia, Cuba to stay out of Venezuela.... But its a-OK for the US to be meddling there..

That's a very big claim and I am sure you have evidence for it? (Hint: the Venezuelan people were able to get some of the aid through, and it was literally just food and medicine, but I am sure you have evidence to the contrary that you are in a position to share?)

BTW China is only there for the oil. Hezbollah is there to sell drugs and advance terrorism. Iran and Russia are there for global geopolitical reasons.

the dark phantom

Hezbollah selling drugs, thats hilarious..Lucky (unlucky) we have the CIA to try and stop them.

ArchXStanton

SeanW wrote: »

That's a very big claim and I am sure you have evidence for it? (Hint: the Venezuelan people were able to get some of the aid through, and it was literally just food and medicine, but I am sure you have evidence to the contrary that you are in a position to share?)

BTW China is only there for the oil. Hezbollah is there to sell drugs and advance terrorism. Iran and Russia are there for global geopolitical reasons.

Well they do have a history of it, indochina were it was labelled "hard rice" as well as being a nice PR stunt to formment regime change, Abrams is involved in this too a man accused of shipping weapons to the contras on a "humanitarian flight" even international aid organisations distanced themselves from this stunt...

My my some pretty big claims there yerself I assume you have the evidence on hand?

ArchXStanton

SeanW wrote: »

That's a very big claim and I am sure you have evidence for it? (Hint: the Venezuelan people were able to get some of the aid through, and it was literally just food and medicine, but I am sure you have evidence to the contrary that you are in a position to share?)

BTW China is only there for the oil. Hezbollah is there to sell drugs and advance terrorism. Iran and Russia are there for global geopolitical reasons.

Oh and just in case you think this is the US first rodeo in regime change/meddling... Anyhoooo For your perusal...

China 1949 to early 1960s
Albania 1949-53
East Germany 1950s
Iran 1953 *
Guatemala 1954 *
Costa Rica mid-1950s
Syria 1956-7
Egypt 1957
Indonesia 1957-8
British Guiana 1953-64 *
Iraq 1963 *
North Vietnam 1945-73
Cambodia 1955-70 *
Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
Ecuador 1960-63 *
Congo 1960 *
France 1965
Brazil 1962-64 *
Dominican Republic 1963 *
Cuba 1959 to present
Bolivia 1964 *
Indonesia 1965 *
Ghana 1966 *
Chile 1964-73 *
Greece 1967 *
Costa Rica 1970-71
Bolivia 1971 *
Australia 1973-75 *
Angola 1975, 1980s
Zaire 1975
Portugal 1974-76 *
Jamaica 1976-80 *
Seychelles 1979-81
Chad 1981-82 *
Grenada 1983 *
South Yemen 1982-84
Suriname 1982-84
Fiji 1987 *
Libya 1980s
Nicaragua 1981-90 *
Panama 1989 *
Bulgaria 1990 *
Albania 1991 *
Iraq 1991
Afghanistan 1980s *
Somalia 1993
Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
Ecuador 2000 *
Afghanistan 2001 *
Venezuela 2002 *
Iraq 2003 *
Haiti 2004 *
Somalia 2007 to present
Honduras 2009 *
Libya 2011 *
Syria 2012
Ukraine 2014 *

Looks like we can add Venezuela to that extensive list again...

Timberrrrrrrr

notobtuse wrote: »

I guess Trump should just continue to allow Venezuela’s women and children to starve to death?

There's many an African nation he could invade if he was worried about starving women and children.

SeanW

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

There's many an African nation he could invade if he was worried about starving women and children.

Are they being intentionally starved by their leaders?

Timberrrrrrrr

SeanW wrote: »

Are they being intentionally starved by their leaders?

Well the regimes steal the aid and money that comes in so yes....yes they are.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-africa-45560404


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/germany-withholds-aid-money-from-uganda/a-48862574

https://www.cgdev.org/blog/how-much-aid-really-lost-corruption

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8304640/WikiLeaks-cables-millions-in-overseas-aid-to-Africa-was-embezzled.html

rossie1977

The only reason the US and others are interested in Venezuela is because of oil.

SeanW wrote: »

The main reason people are homeless or hungry in the US is because they don't have their sh*t together. The US has an extensive welfare system and private charity, most of the "homeless" are drug addicted or have mental issues.

If they had a proper welfare system you wouldn't have the level of homelessness or people with mental issues walking the streets of major cities. Soup kitchens don't qualify as extensive welfare.

A lot of the places that the US has been involved with have done very well afterwards. For example:

All of Western Europe
Japan
South Korea
Chile

US didn't get involved in all western Europe. Japan and South Korea were after wars so needed extensive rebuilds. US government and private companies benefitted massively from those projects.

Chile is a bad example. The US installed a fascist dictator. Pinochet murdered thousands and jailed tens of thousands of others without trail. To this day there are families who don't know what happened to their loved ones during his regime.

You left out the mess that is central America, places in sub Saharian Africa like Liberia and Somalia and the Middle East..

In the latter case, yes Pinochet was a bit of an SOB, but Chile today is one of the few Latin American countries that is not an impoverished hellscape.

That's equivalent of saying Cromwell or the black and tans were a bit of a sob but look at Ireland now..I have been to South America and wouldn't call it improverished hellscape. Buenos Aires is one of the most impressive cities I have visited on my travels.

Cheerful Spring2

President Donald Trump has imposed sweeping sanctions on the Venezuelan government, freezing its assets in the US and barring transactions with it.

This measure is expected to be far more damaging for Venezuela's socialist government than previous sanctions.

The move is the latest aimed at increasing pressure on President Nicolás Maduro to step down.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49248564

Venezuela's vice president has called the latest US sanctions freezing the assets of President Nicolas Maduro's government a "global threat" and an attack on private property.

Delcy Rodriguez said on Tuesday that "the US has to understand once and for all that they aren't the owners of the world".

"Every country that has investments in the US should be very worried because this sets a dangerous precedent against private property," she said.

Chris_Heilong

I know people from Venezuela here in Ireland, they hate what has happened to their country over the past few years, yes socialism like that does not work.

Elmer Blooker

Middle class Venezuelans of European extraction rather than the indigenous South Americans I presume Chris?
This is a very interesting article that looks at Venezuela from a race angle which is never discussed.

In Venezuela, as in the USA, poverty and race are locked together. Why did so many Mestizo, poor Venezuelans love Chavez? As even the CIA’s surprisingly honest Fact Book states:
“Social investment in Venezuela during the Chavez administration reduced poverty from nearly 50% in 1999 to about 27% in 2011, increased school enrollment, substantially decreased infant and child mortality, and improved access to potable water and sanitation through social investment.”

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14318

PS. Being middle class is not a crime.