A United Ireland thread

Sheeps

I'm not all that interested if you don't think this will happen, or if you don't want it to happen. The discussion is centered around what would happen if whether you like it or not the general public have voted for it and it was going to happen. Let's in this thread discuss the lower level nuances of what a practical 32 country Republic of Ireland might look like. If in the next 5-10 years a border poll in the Northern Ireland were called and it passed, what do you imagine it might be like?

Would Northern Ireland exist as a separate country as it does within the United Kingdom currently?
Would we keep our the Tricolour flag?
Would we keep our current national anthem?
Would we join the Commonwealth?
Would we recognise the rights of citizens of a united Ireland to identify as British citizens as per the Good Friday Agreement?
Would the current political parties be relevant anymore?
Would you accept the capital being moved to Belfast?

What sacrifices do you think would be made to appease loyalists and those who whold dear their British identity in Northern Ireland at the moment?

maxwell smart

Yes
Yes
Yes
No
Yes
Never have been
No

Cee-Jay-Cee

Would Northern Ireland exist as a separate country as it does within the United Kingdom currently? No

Would we keep our the Tricolour flag? Yes

Would we keep our current national anthem? Hopefully not, it’s hirrible.

Would we join the Commonwealth? Why dafuq would we join the CW???

Would we recognise the rights of citizens of a united Ireland to identify as British citizens as per the Good Friday Agreement? Yes.

Would the current political parties be relevant anymore? Possibly.

Would you accept the capital being moved to Belfast? No, they’d be joining us, not us joining them. Dublin is the capital.

What sacrifices do you think would be made to appease loyalists and those who whold dear their British identity in Northern Ireland at the moment?
Obviously the irish language would have to be abolished from everyday life, signposts etc etc and that can only be a good thing.

branie2

Yes to all except the commonwealth and the moving of the capital

Vic_08

I would NEVER vote to integrate our country with one containing 500,000+ people who actively despise the notion of being integrated, trying to placate them would be pointless. The amount of unrest it would cause would be more than we could cope with.

Before that there is the rather more prosaic issue that NI is a massive money pit, the Brits caused it and as far as I am concerned it is their legacy to pay for it or fix it. I seriously doubt they would be willing to agree to give the 6 counties back and still pay the bills for it's dis functionality ad infinitum.

The United Irelanders need to understand that there is a huge amount more than just getting 50.1% nationalist majority in the 6 counties before NI will be anywhere near ready to be a candidate for reunification. The religious war may have a lid on it now but it is nowhere near being close to a being a normal place, it is going to be generations before the sectarianism is at a low enough level for it not to be the primary focus of a huge % of the population.

My trigger point for consideration of looking at a United Ireland would be for the majority of elected representatives in NI to be from parties whose primary focus is their partisanship.

ILoveYourVibes

Other (Please specify)

I voted change of anthem change of flag and NI remains a sep country.


As for Belfast becoming the capital it makes no sense Dublin has TWICE the population of Belfast.

Ireland joining the commonwealth no. This again makes no sense. It costs money to be in it. It has no purpose these days.

However if NI wanted as a region to REMAIN within the commonwealth while being a part of Ireland I see no reason to stop that.

I don't hold with this thing that NI would have to be treated just the same as any other part of Ireland just because we became a UI. We can/could make for allowances.

Why NI cannot be a part of the UK and a part of the ROI i can't understand. Why can't it be apart of the two countries?

Gwynplaine

I hope it never happens. The Irish dont want it, and the Brits dont either.

Raconteuse

There are plenty of Irish and British people who want it. My heart wants it, but my head doesn't - I don't think it's workable, economically or politically. Unfortunately.

ILoveYourVibes

Other (Please specify)

My heart just wants the best for NI. I have no emotional urge whatsoever for a UI.

I just want peace and stability both sides of the border.

Tell me how

Change of anthem and change of flag would be a given.
I'd tolerate both changes even though both currently do mean something to me.

Can expect to see either St Patrick's day incorporate celebrations of Britishness or a separate day on which to do so. Again, I'd rather not but in the spirit of the GFA, would accept it.

NI staying as separate countries and/or moving capital are non runners in my view. First defeats purpose of unity, second is pandering. Same goes for any idea of sharing centre of government. I'd rather not as it's inefficient and unnecessary.

Also, just to clarify, I would want a UI to be called 'Ireland', not The United States of Ireland and Northern Ireland or any nonsense like that.

Finally, I would hope we'd learn from Brexit and put time in to preparing for a referendum with clarity on all issues including NHS and social welfare etc, we'd also have an incorporation period should a referendum be passed so that the countries would merge over a period.

All told, I think if it having happened (done and dusted) in anything under 10 yrs from now would be a recipe for disaster and ideally would be done over a 20 year period covering discussion, preparation of proposals for post unity, referendum, dotting I's crossing T's etc, merge period and final ceremony.

Do I want it to happen? Not sure. If NI people wanted to stay as a totally Independent NI, I wouldn't try to change their minds too much but ideally we'll get to a place where we no longer have London with control over part of our island.

Edit: joining the Commonwealth? Munster says No, from me.

madbeanman

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

My heart just wants the best for NI. I have no emotional urge whatsoever for a UI.

I just want peace and stability both sides of the border.

Preach!

I do think that if it was to happen we could have some sort of all Ireland discussion (citizens assembly or whatever) on a new flag and/or anthem. I understand they are contentious and I’ve no particular attachment to either. As an Irish speaker Id like the new anthem to be in Irish though (which would also be contentious but anyways).

I think keeping Stormont around in a federal system and letting the DUP, UUP and Alliance etc contest seats in the Dail also would be a good idea, if that’s what NI peeps would prefer.

The idea of being in the commonwealth is something i would be morally opposed to as it seems retrograde (has colonial undertones that are no good wherever they exist).

Ehhh, moving the capital to Belfast would be an odd choice but I don’t really care where the government sits tbh.

Also if unionists wanted British citizenship have at it.

ILoveYourVibes

Other (Please specify)

madbeanman wrote: »

Preach!

I do think that if it was to happen we could have some sort of all Ireland discussion (citizens assembly or whatever) on a new flag and/or anthem. I understand they are contentious and I’ve no particular attachment to either. As an Irish speaker Id like the new anthem to be in Irish though (which would also be contentious but anyways).

I think keeping Stormont around in a federal system and letting the DUP, UUP and Alliance etc contest seats in the Dail also would be a good idea, if that’s what NI peeps would prefer.

The idea of being in the commonwealth is something i would be morally opposed to as it seems retrograde (has colonial undertones that are no good wherever they exist).

Just because we are not in the common wealth doesn't mean NI can't be.

They don't have to have the Irish national anthem either. Or they could have both the British one and the Irish one.

I don't think there will ever be an NI that is not part of the UK. It can be part of both the UK and ROI.

No reason why they can't have seats in the Dail and the house of commons etc.

Tell me how

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Just because we are not in the common wealth doesn't mean NI can't be.

They don't have to have the Irish national anthem either. Or they could have both the British one and the Irish one.

I don't think there will ever be an NI that is not part of the UK. It can be part of both the UK and ROI.

No reason why they can't have seats in the Dail and the house of commons etc.

What you're talking about is what exists now...

ILoveYourVibes

Other (Please specify)

Tell me how wrote: »

What you're talking about is what exists now...

NI is not a part of ROI the state though. It's not a part of both the UK and Ireland.

If that had been done in the GFA we would not have the issues we have now.

We relied on the fact that NI was a part of the EU. That's changing.

So quite soon its going to become more apparent that its actually NOT what exists now.

The end solution I feel is NI being both Ireland and the UK. By that I mean being a part of both states equally.

Where both states fund it through tax equally also.

Tell me how

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

NI is not a part of ROI the state though. It's not a part of both the UK and Ireland.

If that had been done in the GFA we would not have the issues we have now.

We relied on the fact that NI was a part of the EU. That's changing.

So quite soon its going to become more apparent that its actually NOT what exists now.

Okay, you think a United Ireland referendum could result in Northern Ireland existing as a separate country, being part of the ROI state and a member of the Commonwealth. I don't.

ILoveYourVibes

Other (Please specify)

Tell me how wrote: »

Okay, you think a United Ireland referendum could result in Northern Ireland existing as a separate country, being part of the ROI state and a member of the Commonwealth. I don't.

No. I said i have no issue with northern Ireland being a separate country as was asked of me to indicate in the poll.

Yes I think it would be perfectly possible for a ref to pass to allow Ni to be an autonomous region of both the UK and the ROI and remain in the commonwealth.

I think it would be possible for both states to equally fund NI through tax.


Its probably not going to be possible for NI to remain just as any other part of the UK after brexit economically it would be crushing to be outside the EU and on an island inside it that you must cross a border to enter.


It will not be possible for NI to be a part of the ROI and not the UK for political reasons.

Thus my point.

Many people in NI already have both passports. Even Ian Paisley junior has an Irish passport. It doesn't mean he is ever going to give up his British one.


Ni doesn't have to stop being a part of the UK to become a part of the Republic of Ireland. We have to get out of that boxed in thinking.

dd973

Belfast becoming the capital

I think a fitting flag would be a Green-White-Navy Blue Tricolour with a Harp in the middle, an extensive PR campaign with a slogan like 'Better together' using imagery of Ulster Prods whom are unconflicted about being Irish would also appeal, the likes of Van Morrison, George Best or Eddie Irvine for example, there is an Irish sensibility among them, especially in the liberal middle classes or rural Ulster that didn't get the worst of The Troubles, they're not all Lambegs, Buckfast, Sashes and Rangers shirts. Once they get off the ferry, more so in England, they're just regarded as Irish.

ILoveYourVibes

Other (Please specify)

Or irish people not bothered about being brits or something.

I literally have no idea i am pulling ideas out of my arse.

What would John Hume do?

Badly Drunk Boy

Sheeps wrote: »

Would Northern Ireland exist as a separate country as it does within the United Kingdom currently?

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I voted change of anthem change of flag and NI remains a sep country.

If this is about a United Ireland, why would Northern Ireland become a separate country? It's already messed up the way the United Kingdom is made up of four countries but are they just four parts of one big country(?) which I'm sure confuses a lot of foreigners. It's not quite like other countries being comprised of states e.g. separate football and rugby teams.

And one of the reasons many (potentially) new people to the idea of unity are considering it is so Northern Ireland stays in the EU. If they get independence from the UK without joining the Republic, they will go to the back of the EU admission list, as would have happened with Scotland, as discussed when they had their independence referendum. (There is a way to get around this but it's not very likely to happen.)

ILoveYourVibes

Other (Please specify)

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

If this is about a United Ireland, why would Northern Ireland become a separate country? It's already messed up the way the United Kingdom is made up of four countries but are they just four parts of one big country(?) which I'm sure confuses a lot of foreigners. It's not quite like other countries being comprised of states e.g. separate football and rugby teams.

And one of the reasons many (potentially) new people to the idea of unity are considering it is so Northern Ireland stays in the EU. If they get independence from the UK without joining the Republic, they will go to the back of the EU admission list, as would have happened with Scotland, as discussed when they had their independence referendum. (There is a way to get around this but it's not very likely to happen.)

Because its a question I was asked in a poll. Read the poll questions.:rolleyes:

If NI remained a sep country from ROI i wouldn't mind.

Also you have to remember the UK is made up of different countries wales and scotland Ni etc.

I think that they like that level of autonomy diff mindset. Prob even nationalists would not like Dublin running the show completely.

madbeanman

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Just because we are not in the common wealth doesn't mean NI can't be.

They don't have to have the Irish national anthem either. Or they could have both the British one and the Irish one.

I don't think there will ever be an NI that is not part of the UK. It can be part of both the UK and ROI.

No reason why they can't have seats in the Dail and the house of commons etc.

I think what is important is fairness though. Like you are advocating a neither unionist or nationalist position, or like a best of both worlds (to give you the best reading of your suggestion) but the voting patterns in the North don't support this at all. Like the Alliance and Greens and SDLP and UUP combined don't come close to the DUP Sinn Fein vote. I think that your suggestion might just end up pissing off the majority of everyone. If you were a Sinner then you'd be pissed as to why you were in the common wealth and still not a fully integrated member of Ireland. If you were a Dupper you'd be pissed at ceding some control to Dublin.

Of course someone would lose out if unification was realised anyway but I feel like its an easier pill to swallow for the loser than something like what you are proposing.

FrancieBrady

Sheeps wrote: »

I'm not all that interested if you don't think this will happen, or if you don't want it to happen. The discussion is centered around what would happen if whether you like it or not the general public have voted for it and it was going to happen. Let's in this thread discuss the lower level nuances of what a practical 32 country Republic of Ireland might look like. If in the next 5-10 years a border poll in the Northern Ireland were called and it passed, what do you imagine it might be like?

Would Northern Ireland exist as a separate country as it does within the United Kingdom currently? No, ridiculous idea as it has never been able to govern itself since the lunacy of partition which ethnically unbalanced it.
Would we keep our the Tricolour flag? Not an issue for me.A neutral flag symbolising the two traditions would be a good idea. Green White and Orange maybe???
Would we keep our current national anthem? Couldn't care less.
Would we join the Commonwealth? No, as the UK seem to be angling to use it as a trading bloc or alliance it would conflict with our role in Europe. We need to accomodate Unionism not just give meaningless sops to them.
Would we recognise the rights of citizens of a united Ireland to identify as British citizens as per the Good Friday Agreement? Yes, everybody will have the right to be Polish, German, British etc.
Would the current political parties be relevant anymore? Political parties will have the right to form and compete at elections as they always have been in a democracy.
Would you accept the capital being moved to Belfast? Not as a sop to Unionism, no. Dublin is the natural capital of the island by dint of history and population.

What sacrifices do you think would be made to appease loyalists and those who whold dear their British identity in Northern Ireland at the moment?

None in particular. If the majority vote in favour of a UI proposal(where issues above are negotiated) then I expect them to be democrats and follow suit.

dudara

Moved AH > CA