TV licence collection privatised and replaced with device licence fee in 5 years

Pa ElGrande

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I wonder will this be the death nail for TV or device licence /fee?

Forcing people to pay for a service they don't use is a difficult task. I wonder will it annoy people enough for it to become the water meter protest.

People do use the service and if you open up a subscription model the service can be accessed by the Irish diaspora and beyond. What not give Irish people the option to keep in touch with the motherland?

BarryD2

Still, first RTE have to prove they can run their ship properly and slash the contracts/ staff agreements that grossly over reward their supposed top presenters. If the likes of Tubridy, Finuncane, Duffy or Darcy don't like it, them show them the door.

Loafing Oaf

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I wonder will this be the death nail for TV or device licence /fee?

Forcing people to pay for a service they don't use is a difficult task. I wonder will it annoy people enough for it to become the water meter protest.

As I said earlier, I struggle to see why this should be a game changer. If the current licence fee system hasn't generated those sort of protests, I don't expect the new one will.

y0ssar1an22

Bennett Zealous Mocha wrote: »

I have a PC that I built from scratch. I have a smartphone. I never watch RTE nor do I have any intention of. I've already paid tax on my pc parts when I built it, tax on my smartphone to buy, tax on my phone bill, tax on my Internet, tax on my electricity. I'll go to court before I pay the government a cent to pay for Ryan Tubridy and Ray Darcys salary.

dont forgot prob ~52% tax on the money you used to buy those things.

BarryD2

BarryD2 wrote: »

Still, first RTE have to prove they can run their ship properly and slash the contracts/ staff agreements that grossly over reward their supposed top presenters. If the likes of Tubridy, Finuncane, Duffy or Darcy don't like it, them show them the door.

Well they would be snapped up by other broadcasters if they weren't paid that much

Lol

BarryD2

Deleted User wrote: »

Well they would be snapped up by other broadcasters if they weren't paid that much

Exactly, slash their wages/ fees and let them make a choice: Stay on these terms or off you go to whatever obscure station you want.

quokula

A public service broadcaster is an important facility - look what happens somewhere like the US where the media is entirely profit driven and you end up with the likes of Fox News driving the country off a cliff.

And I'm sure you can argue here and there that there are many ways for RTE to cut costs, but they're not outside international industry standards and some of their highest paid talent get there because they bring in ad revenue and effectively pay for themselves.

So I'm all for finding ways to cut down on licence fee evasion, but I don't get the proposed system. Why have a private company come in to skim profits off the top. And why have some convoluted system for "devices" when pretty much 100% of the population have one, why not just add it to income tax or property tax or whatever. I don't understand why it needs to be funded in a different way to education, healthcare, policing or whatever.

Pa ElGrande

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

How long would you be waiting for the private sector to set up something like Lyric FM?

There is no need for RTE to provide Lyric FM when Classic FM exists that provides the same content.

Boggles

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

There is no need for RTE to provide Lyric FM when Classic FM exists that provides the same content.

A British Radio station?

A bizarre reason not to do something in Ireland.

Kewreeuss

Pick a government, any Irish government, they'll all want this tax. Doesn't make any difference who's in. The genie is out of the bottle.
I've been paying it so long, I don't notice it.
I don't watch RTE telly, honestly.
Up to about 5 years ago I used watch the news in the evening, then I got it down to just the weather forecast, and now even that is gone and I look out the window or Met Eireann.
I am happy enough to pay 160 for Lyric in the evening, and as with all my taxes a portion of our society will benefit and sometimes drive time on the way home form work.
However, I don't agree with the collection being outsourced. it should stay with the post office where it provides a bit of income.
Like most other outsourcings, they seem to go to non Irish companies and the profit goes out of the country. And you can be sure we'll foot the bill for 'administration charges' that will regularly push up the cost.
I like the idea mentioned somewhere of signing up and paying for content. So whoever wants it can pay for it but I can't see RTE surviving on that model.

celtic_oz

1. Ryan Tubridy: €495,000

2. Ray D’Arcy: €450,000

3. Joe Duffy: €389,988

4. Sean O’Rourke: €308,964

5. Marian Finucane: €300,617

6. Miriam O’Callaghan: €299,000

7. Claire Byrne: €216,000

8. Bryan Dobson: €198,146

9. George Hamilton: €186,195

10. Mary Wilson: 185,679

celtic_oz

RTE's Director General got a financial package worth almost €340,000 last year. The State broadcaster's annual report shows the amount paid to Dee Forbes included a basic salary of a quarter of a million, a car allowance worth €25,000 along with pension contributions worth €63,000

Sardonicat

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This is blx.They should simply add the licence fee to the property tax, collection costs zero.

Blx. Not everyone owns property for a start. And more importantly, why should I pay for a service in don't use. I don't watch RTE. I don't listen to RTE. I won't pay anything towards RTE. Will happily take a day trip to the Dochas centre for non payment if I have to.

lola85

celtic_oz wrote: »

1. Ryan Tubridy: €495,000

2. Ray D’Arcy: €450,000

3. Joe Duffy: €389,988

4. Sean O’Rourke: €308,964

5. Marian Finucane: €300,617

6. Miriam O’Callaghan: €299,000

7. Claire Byrne: €216,000

8. Bryan Dobson: €198,146

9. George Hamilton: €186,195

10. Mary Wilson: 185,679

Miriam o Callaghan.

Jesus that would bring tears to a glass eye.

expectationlost

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Government sponsored enterprises such as RTE are an expense not bound by the quality of their output or customer satisfaction targets and they will continue to sap the taxpayer for whatever money that can take and they will always be back with rattling their iron rice bowl, in addition they are distorting the market by undercutting commercial competition and draining money from local economies across the Republic. Their current funding and operational model is broken and giving them more tax is just continuing that model.


By putting them on a subscription model, the consumers that like RTE will pay for their service and if they want to create more income for themselves they can either produce or commission new content and consumers will pay. The only feedback mechanism RTE have at the moment are from the commercial advertisers who can link their own product sales to that of RTE.


For those who say that this ignores the cultural stuff, those organisations who wish to promote their culture can sponsor the content themselves and it can be distributed under the basic subscription package.

the above is not a reply to what I said

Boggles

celtic_oz wrote: »

RTE's Director General got a financial package worth almost €340,000 last year. The State broadcaster's annual report shows the amount paid to Dee Forbes included a basic salary of a quarter of a million, a car allowance worth €25,000 along with pension contributions worth €63,000

Meh.

Who cares what salary she gets.

She came with a certain pedigree, is she justifying the salary is the question?

Pa ElGrande

quokula wrote: »

A public service broadcaster is an important facility - look what happens somewhere like the US where the media is entirely profit driven and you end up with the likes of Fox News driving the country off a cliff.

And I'm sure you can argue here and there that there are many ways for RTE to cut costs, but they're not outside international industry standards and some of their highest paid talent get there because they bring in ad revenue and effectively pay for themselves.

So I'm all for finding ways to cut down on licence fee evasion, but I don't get the proposed system. Why have a private company come in to skim profits off the top. And why have some convoluted system for "devices" when pretty much 100% of the population have one, why not just add it to income tax or property tax or whatever. I don't understand why it needs to be funded in a different way to education, healthcare, policing or whatever.

RTE is a government sponsored enterprise that provides multimedia content. If it stops broadcasting its content today nobody will die and the world will move on. A tax payer subsidised multimedia company is not necessary for the functioning of a democratic state and the it's service can be provided commercially. It needs to reform its business model and be removed from the purview of the government and taxpayer. As it is it is just another instrument of government.

In private, Lemass's views were more robust. Among civil servants and government colleagues he made no secret of his unhappiness with the independent voice with which the new station was speaking. He told colleagues that the RTE Authority's notion of its independence "was being pushed to an intolerable extent".

It was invariably a perceived lack of balance in programmes dealing with the economy which irritated Lemass most. And like many of his contemporaries, he was especially sensitive on the subject of emigration. In January 1963, he complained about one such programme, describing it as "thoroughly bad and depressing". It represented "exactly the approach to serious national problems that Telefis Eireann should not adopt". The station, he wrote, should "take the whine out of (its) voice".

source

_blaaz

celtic_oz wrote: »

1. Ryan Tubridy: €495,000

2. Ray D’Arcy: €450,000

3. Joe Duffy: €389,988

4. Sean O’Rourke: €308,964

5. Marian Finucane: €300,617

6. Miriam O’Callaghan: €299,000

7. Claire Byrne: €216,000

8. Bryan Dobson: €198,146

9. George Hamilton: €186,195

10. Mary Wilson: 185,679

All at lower corporate tax rate...hence the near blind devotion to keeping irelands corp tax low from rte



Remember that this evening when you look at payslip...your paying high tax and tv fees to keep them in wages which most heads of state worldwide dont earn

markodaly

I think its fair to say that we should have publicly funded content.

Things like Nationwide, Ear to the Ground, Would you believe, The Sunday Game, Prime Time, and the News of course, along with a few more programs.
However, that is where the remit of RTE should end imo.

Light-hearted chat shows can go **** off, unless its something like the Late Late of old which actually served the public interest.

The programs I mentioned should be funded out of general taxation. We pay 23% VAT on every device already, which is millions of euro. If the state want to produce homegrown content like dramas, films and the like, then it should fund the content providers not RTE.

We have it arseways in this country. RTE should be funded out of general taxation and we should pay for water. Instead, we do it the other way around.

Although I do find it funny that everyone all of a sudden is a neo-liberal free marketer when they are being charged a tax on something they will not use. Sucks doesn't it!

Uriel.

Have always paid my TV licence. I don't have an issue with paying a public service type fee for various services not covered under general taxation. Rarely watch RTE or listen to it, but I do think an independent public service news and media platform is absolutely essential. I also think certain things of national importance should be free to air insofar as possible,including major sporting events. I also accept that public interest programming doesn't mean I will have a personal interest in everything scheduled for broadcast but I think a lot of people forget that.

I do have an issue with the constant and continued outsourcing of services to the private sector. I have no issues with private sector involvement in public service delivery, as sometimes it can provide a better and/or more efficient and cost effective service. However, I can't see how that could be the case in this instance. We already have an excellent collection agent with structures and infrastructures that could do this job (Revenue Commissioners).

I'm generally a jump between FF and FG when it comes to politics, and I don't see that changing in the near future, but the breadth and vigour of FG's privatisation agenda is far beyond what I think is reasonable and far beyond what I think is in the public interest with a real danger of monopolies building up with regard to essential public services.

I also think as a public sector organisation/semi state etc thst Rte should have salary caps. If they can't keep Ryan Tubridy (as an example) for €300,000 per annum then let him off. I'm sure there will be someone to replace him.

Pa ElGrande

Boggles wrote: »

A British Radio station?

A bizarre reason not to do something in Ireland.

Why not? Classical music is not part of mainstream Irish culture and never has been, nor is it likely to be, so it is bizarre that RTE would expend their limited resources promoting a foreign culture that could alternately be broadcast for a commercial fee from another provider (classic FM) via 2RNs transmission network. The only distinction being the presenter would have a non-Irish accent because the musical content is the same.

markodaly

The salaries the top RTE guys get is a disgrace. Marrian Finucance has been getting the guts of half a million a year, for 4 hours of radio a week. Ray D'arcy..... **** off

I wonder if the likes of Virgin Media can take a case to the EU for state aid and competition rules here?

splinter65

celtic_oz wrote: »

1. Ryan Tubridy: €495,000

2. Ray D’Arcy: €450,000

3. Joe Duffy: €389,988

4. Sean O’Rourke: €308,964

5. Marian Finucane: €300,617

6. Miriam O’Callaghan: €299,000

7. Claire Byrne: €216,000

8. Bryan Dobson: €198,146

9. George Hamilton: €186,195

10. Mary Wilson: 185,679

Thanks for that. Is there a total? I’d tot it up but I’m on my phone parked up waiting for my mother.

_blaaz

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Why not? Classical music is not part of mainstream Irish culture and never has been, nor is it likely to be, so it is bizarre that RTE would expend their limited resources promoting a foreign culture that could alternately be broadcast for a commercial fee from another provider (classic FM) via 2RNs transmission network. The only distinction being the presenter would have a non-Irish accent because the musical content is the same.

If we sacked tubs....it would prob pay to run an extra classical music station for a year?


The only reason rte content is sh1t is they are paying emselves too much....theres more than enough money going into it to make a proper service

Emmersonn

biko wrote: »

In Sweden the TV licence was replace by a "public service fee".

USC sounds familiar.

facehugger99

celtic_oz wrote: »

1. Ryan Tubridy: €495,000

2. Ray D’Arcy: €450,000

3. Joe Duffy: €389,988

4. Sean O’Rourke: €308,964

5. Marian Finucane: €300,617

6. Miriam O’Callaghan: €299,000

7. Claire Byrne: €216,000

8. Bryan Dobson: €198,146

9. George Hamilton: €186,195

10. Mary Wilson: 185,679

They always say that being the 11th highest earner in RTE must be one of the best jobs in the country.

Boggles

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Why not? Classical music is not part of mainstream Irish culture and never has been, nor is it likely to be, so it is bizarre that RTE would expend their limited resources promoting a foreign culture that could alternately be broadcast for a commercial fee from another provider (classic FM) via 2RNs transmission network. The only distinction being the presenter would have a non-Irish accent because the musical content is the same.

What "foreign culture" is classical music?

markodaly

Why are we talking about Classical Music here? There are about 1001 ways to listen to Classical music without even owning a radio. Youtube has tens of thousands of hours worth of free content, as does Spotify just to name two examples. Both of which is legal.

sydthebeat

markodaly wrote: »

Why are we talking about Classical Music here? There are about 1001 ways to listen to Classical music without even owning a radio. Youtube has tens of thousands of hours worth of free content, as does Spotify just to name two examples. Both of which is legal.

becuase part of the licence fee goes towards paying for the RTE concert orchestra......................

markodaly

sydthebeat wrote: »

becuase part of the licence fee goes towards paying for the RTE concert orecstra......................

I agree that that is a waste of money.

_Kaiser_

Reading through comments above and most arguments in favour of this cite some version of "public service broadcasting is important" and "we need a fair and impartial broadcaster".

RTE certainly isn't the latter, and it's questionable as to whether it fits the former, or whether we even need public broadcasting given the multitude of domestic and foreign media networks we can access which fill the same function.

It's always amusing too how many people seem to be more than happy to hand over more of their income to a Government who's only real contribution has been to make Irish society worse and their ongoing attempts to privatise and sell off public services and infrastructure.

You might as well throw your cash in fire for as much good it'll do in terms of improved broadcasting.

Boggles

markodaly wrote: »

Why are we talking about Classical Music here? There are about 1001 ways to listen to Classical music without even owning a radio. Youtube has tens of thousands of hours worth of free content, as does Spotify just to name two examples. Both of which is legal.

Why stop at classical music, can't you get almost everything on youtube or spotify?

2 reasons to shut a radio station, they have one in Britain and Spotify.

Truly bizarre.

Loafing Oaf

markodaly wrote: »

Why are we talking about Classical Music here? There are about 1001 ways to listen to Classical music without even owning a radio. Youtube has tens of thousands of hours worth of free content, as does Spotify just to name two examples. Both of which is legal.

Well I brought up Lyric as an example of the kind of service that the private sector in Ireland would never supply. I agree that it's very far from an essential service but I think the principle is the same as for a whole range of the things RTE does.

CelticSeaShip

So where do we go from here? Should people start emailing their local politicians about this? A poster above offered an alternative for example having the rte player private and only allowed access with a pincode that is associated with your licence if you have payed. Maybe we can start emailing our politicians with our displeasure about such a move and perhaps to give an alternative.

Stephen15

Scrap the tv licence make RTE and the RTE Player a subscription based service for a nominal fee similar to what is the current tv licence.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Its strange how many people say they never watch RTE yet are the first also to comment on the outrage when they saw the Greyhounds or creche exposes.

Are they tge same people though? I highly doubt you could prove that.

Pa ElGrande

_blaaz wrote: »

The only reason rte content is sh1t is they are paying emselves too much....theres more than enough money going into it to make a proper service

I can't comment much on the quality of their current output since I don't consume it and I stopped consuming it a decade ago when I got rid of my TV at the same time so I would not have to pay the tax. Most of the content was poor then and I found I watched much less over time and with my own economic situation then I could not justify the expense of paying for something I no longer used.


The reason most of their content is sh1t (to quote you) is their business model is wrong, their resources have been spread too thin and far as I can see they have gone for filling up as much bandwidth (channels) as possible in order to capture eyeballs in an increasingly fragmented market for multimedia content. There is no way they can be all things to all people and they are going to have to move to a subscription based model where people can view their content at the time of their choosing like we can do with youtube today.


If you keep them propped up on the current business model they won't ever change as there is no incentive to do that when they can always fall back on the taxpayer. Remember that in order to pay taxes you have to work and save money, multimedia content has a much lower ranking over health, education and welfare spend, eventually once most of their current audience dies off there will be no political will to maintain RTE.

CelticSeaShip

Stephen15 wrote: »

Scrap the tv licence make RTE and the RTE Player a subscription based service for a nominal fee similar to what is the current tv licence.

Making it subscription based service for a fee similar to what is the current TV licence.

I don't think that would be very fair for people who pay the tv licence and then maybe they might want to catch up with something online on the player? Will they have to pay the equivalent of the license fee again just to have the service of watching online?

major bill

Not a chance people are going to pay this, Fine Gael really do like to dig their own graves.

markodaly

Boggles wrote: »

Why stop at classical music, can't you get almost everything on youtube or spotify?

2 reasons to shut a radio station, they have one in Britain and Spotify.

Truly bizarre.

Let's not pretend that Classic FM has its own infrastructure and dedicated studio here, it's piggybacking onto the RTE infrastructure, so closing it down won't save too much money, unless you shut down the Orchestra as well.

However, the point remains. Why should the taxpayer fund and pay for yet another outlet for Classical music that gives no discernible value or returns to said tax payer when there are countless other free choices out there.

Just to give a few people a job?

The whole idea of radio and TV broadcasting has to have a rethink because even though we are an Island and have an Island mentality, the world is not an Island and the internet has changed everything in terms of consuming content.

OneEightSeven

quokula wrote: »

A public service broadcaster is an important facility - look what happens somewhere like the US where the media is entirely profit driven and you end up with the likes of Fox News driving the country off a cliff.

I'm no fan of Fox News, but how they drive the country off of a cliff? America has 3 big cable news stations and two of them are left-leaning, but Fox News somehow drove America off of a cliff? What a daft thing to say.

Pa ElGrande

sydthebeat wrote: »

becuase part of the licence fee goes towards paying for the RTE concert orchestra......................

The orchestra can be hived off to the Department of arts heritage and the Gaeltacht. It is only an accident that RTE ended up with the orchestra as they wanted to emulate the BBC model from the 1930s when they used the orchestra for live performances.

Pa ElGrande

major bill wrote: »

Not a chance people are going to pay this, Fine Gael really do like to dig their own graves.

They are well aware of that which is why they proposed the changes for 5 years time when a new government is in charge and has to deal with the fall out.

markodaly

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well I brought up Lyric as an example of the kind of service that the private sector in Ireland would never supply. I agree that it's very far from an essential service but I think the principle is the same as for a whole range of the things RTE does.

Lyric FM on the whole probably costs **** all in reality, but I think the issue is with the duplication of a service that already exists in reality for most people.

We are drowning in content and there are millions of different stations or programs one can watch or listen to at any given time.

riclad

If you have a sky subscription or pay for cable tv, you will be on a list,
you will get a visit from some one asking to see your tv license .
Whether you watch rte is irrelevant, rte makes many drama,s , talk shows ,
news current affairs show .
After the crash, in 2008 many presenters salarys were cut by 20- 30 per cent.
I dont think they make much money from the radio stations or making
arts programs and radio drama.s .
rte has very few programs it can sell abroad to other tv stations .
If we want to have a public service tv and radio service it has to be paid for .
I Find it hard to believe someone who says i never watch rte if they
are a sports fan ,
unless you have sky sports if you watch gaa or rugby
and certain sporting events ,the world cup ,etc
your best choice is rte tv.
There are a lot of american comedys and drama,s on rte tv that can be seen on itv,
or bbc ,c4 .
There are many parts of the country where fast broadband is not avaidable ,
so as far as tv go,s your only choice is over the air tv using saorview or Sky TV from satellite .

is_that_so

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

They are well aware of that which is why they proposed the changes for 5 years time when a new government is in charge and has to deal with the fall out.

It actually came from a Joint Oireachtas Dail Committee and a very long report. Link to it on this page.

https://www.thejournal.ie/tv-licence-fee-3720854-Nov2017/

You'll also notice too from that story that other parties are not against the idea. On the face of it it doesn't matter who's in power.

Boggles

markodaly wrote: »

Let's not pretend that Classic FM has its own infrastructure and dedicated studio here,

It has, in Limerick City.

markodaly wrote: »

However, the point remains. Why should the taxpayer fund and pay for yet another outlet for Classical music that gives no discernible value or returns to said tax payer when there are countless other free choices out there.

I don't like classical music, so personally don't care if it shut down or not.

But I think there has to be a better reason than it can be got from somewhere else, you could scale that up to 80% of what's on radio or Telly for that matter..

thenightman

Drastically cut RTE's public service remit to news, current affairs and sport on TV and radio. Cap salaries at 150k, see how many broadcasters will be knocking down Joe Duffy or Mir-e-yums door to offer them more. If RTE still want to produce light entertainment shows or dirge like Fair City, or pay for foreign imports ,they can do it out of their commercial pocket like TV3 have to.

Zillah

I notice RTE's article on the topic makes no mention of the controversy over the fee and the exorbitant salaries paid to their 'talent'. Not a very encouraging level of objectivity on display.