IONITY - charging / fees / tips

redcup342

Black_Knight wrote: »

Any of the units out of service yet? It's almost a right if passage for ionity of late.

I wonder who is maintaining those in Ireland ... I've yet to see an out of service Ionity Station on the Continent

elektrik

redcup342 wrote: »

I wonder who is maintaining those in Ireland ... I've yet to see an out of service Ionity Station on the Continent

Probably someone FROM the mainland
Wouldn't be surprised if every time they have to get a ferry from Cherbourg :pac:

zg3409

Black_Knight wrote: »

Any of the units out of service yet? It's almost a right if passage for ionity of late.

Yes, reports from day 1, one on free vend, 2 ignoring all cards, one showing out of order. Could be worse...

innrain

I see pricing started to appear on easygo.ie for Ionity



That is more expensive than Ionity itself.

ELM327

poop.
I got a few free easygo charges on ionity.

innrain

On the app is still says free but clearly they are working on updating the prices.

liamog

I think we need to see some kind of roaming regulation for charging service providers. Picking the wrong partner could lead to some very expensive mistakes

ELM327

Even plugsurfing is now almost €1 per kWh at Ionity

moggins7

Charged at Kill today with the app and was charged at €0.53/kWh.

Has something changed or does the discount only work with the card?

irishgrover

moggins7 wrote:

Charged at Kill today with the app and was charged at €0.53/kWh.

Which app?

moggins7

Ah, maingau

Kramer

moggins7 wrote: »

Charged at Kill today with the app and was charged at €0.53/kWh...........maingau

Oh dear .
Is this the beginning of the end for the last, half reasonable option for Ionity, for regular motorway users?

KCross

Kramer wrote: »

Oh dear .
Is this the beginning of the end for the last, half reasonable option for Ionity, for regular motorway users?

The German guy reviewing the ID.3 (Car maniac channel) said it was a promotional price that Maingau has and to expect it to rise!

JohnC.

The app still says 39c. Disappointing if what it says and what it charges are different.

Kramer

KCross wrote: »

The German guy reviewing the ID.3 (Car maniac channel) said it was a promotional price that Maingau has and to expect it to rise!

It was apparent weeks ago Maingau's price would rise as they were the last MSP offering a reduced rate. It's hugely disappointing though that there will be no reasonable rate for Ionity charging.

Sure, I know the old justification will be proffered about savings by charging at home on night rate etc., but Ionity are strategically placed on motorway routes.
I do plenty of motorway driving & I sure won't be willing to pay twice as much, or even three times as much, to travel in a BEV rather than my PHEV/ICE.

It's a retrograde step IMO & a disincentive to EV adoption for high mileage drivers/frequent motorway users.

Maybe the market will sort it out but I doubt it, at least in the short term .

KCross

Kramer wrote: »

It was apparent weeks ago Maingau's price would rise as they were the last MSP offering a reduced rate. It's hugely disappointing though that there will be no reasonable rate for Ionity charging.

Sure, I know the old justification will be proffered about savings by charging at home on night rate etc., but Ionity are strategically placed on motorway routes.
I do plenty of motorway driving & I sure won't be willing to pay twice as much, or even three times as much, to travel in a BEV rather than my PHEV/ICE.

It's a retrograde step IMO & a disincentive to EV adoption for high mileage drivers/frequent motorway users.

Maybe the market will sort it out but I doubt it, at least in the short term .

The cost of these high power charging hubs is lost on some people though. Unless its subsidised you are going to be paying a high price for it if it’s expected to pay for itself. Don’t expect it to drop in price.

Not sure why you say it’s 2-3 times more expensive when you will be starting with 100% of 7c/kWh electricity. You only pay the premium for the topup to get you home.

Kramer

KCross wrote: »

The cost of these high power charging hubs is lost on some people though. Unless its subsidised you are going to be paying a high price for it if it’s expected to pay for itself. Don’t expect it to drop in price.

I appreciate the capital investment & ongoing costs for these hubs, but few will use them, unless really stuck. One thing is certain though - they will never pay for themselves, should no one use them.

Look at the way the 50kW ECars fast chargers were abandoned, en masse, once charging was introduced. That charging is set at a lowly 27c/kWh too, less than half the price of Ionity :eek:.

KCross wrote: »

Not sure why you say it’s 2-3 times more expensive when you will be starting with 100% of 7c/kWh electricity.

Kramer wrote: »

Sure, I know the old justification will be proffered about savings by charging at home on night rate etc.,

I knew it .

At 23kWh/100km, Ionity will cost between €0.12 & €0.18 per kilometre.
A modern diesel at 5l/100km costs just 6c/km.

Fine for Etron/EQC/Taycan/Model S P100D owners, but saucy for the plebs in 24kWh Leafs or Ioniqs or Kias etc.

KCross

Kramer wrote: »

At 23kWh/100km, Ionity will cost between €0.12 & €0.18 per kilometre.
A modern diesel at 5l/100km costs just 6c/km.

But you missed the point that you start at 100%, average it out for your day.

liamog

Kramer has to miss the point to keep justifying the 530e, if you leave you your house fully charged and only have to stop in at Ionity on rare occasions, then it put's the economics of the BMW into question.

redcup342

moggins7 wrote: »

Charged at Kill today with the app and was charged at €0.53/kWh.

Has something changed or does the discount only work with the card?

Nothing has changed, did you leave it charging for more than an hour ?
Can you post a pic of the charge for the session ?

Kramer wrote: »

It was apparent weeks ago Maingau's price would rise as they were the last MSP offering a reduced rate. It's hugely disappointing though that there will be no reasonable rate for Ionity charging.

Sure, I know the old justification will be proffered about savings by charging at home on night rate etc., but Ionity are strategically placed on motorway routes.
I do plenty of motorway driving & I sure won't be willing to pay twice as much, or even three times as much, to travel in a BEV rather than my PHEV/ICE.

It's a retrograde step IMO & a disincentive to EV adoption for high mileage drivers/frequent motorway users.

Maybe the market will sort it out but I doubt it, at least in the short term .

From who ?
Maingau's model is they have a single price across all Networks for AC and DC.

Again ... i don't see how this is new .. Maingau have been offering this price on many rapid charging networks for the past 3 years, Ionity is no different and not really anything special (other than some sexy marketing)

Maingau is actually more expensive in some cases

catharsis

Are most of us not kind of missing the point though?

Almost nobody except Tesla drivers will actually be paying the retail prices. Check out what manufacturers are part of Ionity? - Ionity is the Industry response to Tesla, and if you are driving an industry-member car expect to see preferential pricing such as that already published for VAG cars.

(It is BMW, Mercedes, VAG and Ford, so not like it's small-time - I know Hyundai/Kia joined recently so expect their cars to get Ionity charging around the same time they get their app (Oh, wait - nevermind!))

That leaves comparatively few major manufacturers of EVs out of the loop - perhaps Nissan, the french companies and FCA?

Also note Ionity will be implementing the 'car identifies itself to the charger' standard whose name I could not be bothered to google, so that charging will be exactly the same as a supercharger, the car will identify itself to an ionity charging station and your account will be billed with no 'faffing'.

Frankly IMO Ionity have answered all of the open questions about charging, have done it quickly and at scale, and represent by some distance the best thing that has happened to e-car advancement in Ireland in the last 10 years. One can seriously tell an ICE Driver now that a private company have built 5 superfast charging hubs on major arteries in last 12-18 months and plan several more, that they are completely independent of the government and ESB, and that they are sufficient to pretty much guarantee that any reasonably modern EV can do any conceivable trip on this island without issue.

ELM327

catharsis wrote: »

Are most of us not kind of missing the point though?

Almost nobody except Tesla drivers will actually be paying the retail prices. Check out what manufacturers are part of Ionity? - Ionity is the Industry response to Tesla, and if you are driving an industry-member car expect to see preferential pricing such as that already published for VAG cars.

(It is BMW, Mercedes, VAG and Ford, so not like it's small-time - I know Hyundai/Kia joined recently so expect their cars to get Ionity charging around the same time they get their app (Oh, wait - nevermind!))

That leaves comparatively few major manufacturers of EVs out of the loop - perhaps Nissan, the french companies and FCA?

Also note Ionity will be implementing the 'car identifies itself to the charger' standard whose name I could not be bothered to google, so that charging will be exactly the same as a supercharger, the car will identify itself to an ionity charging station and your account will be billed with no 'faffing'.

Frankly IMO Ionity have answered all of the open questions about charging, have done it quickly and at scale, and represent by some distance the best thing that has happened to e-car advancement in Ireland in the last 10 years. One can seriously tell an ICE Driver now that a private company have built 5 superfast charging hubs on major arteries in last 12-18 months and plan several more, that they are completely independent of the government and ESB, and that they are sufficient to pretty much guarantee that any reasonably modern EV can do any conceivable trip on this island without issue.

Except they have introduced a new anxiety.
Range anxiety is gone but wallet anxiety is back! Too expensive. Way too expensive. And I include the OEM packages in that. 20 quid a month for 39c/kWh "cheap" rate

What about Jaguar? Are they part?

KCross

Lets say you do a ~500km in the one day (Cork-Dublin return, Dublin-Galway return etc) with obviously lots of motorway in that trip.

What will it cost?...


We need some assumptions (and I know there is lots of variation in the cars and their range etc so its not perfect)
- ~60kWh+ EV with 300km motorway range (e.g. eNiro, Kona, Model 3, ID.3 etc).
- You have home charging available.

If the assumptions are bad for your use case then you have to look at the subscription models where you pay a monthly fee and a reduced kWh rate.

And also look at alternatives to Ionity because you probably dont have an EV that can take 100kW+ anyway so better to utilise cheaper 50kW chargers instead and of course there is the possibility of getting much cheaper topup during the day via 11kW AC to avoid DC charging entirely.


So the costs....

I'm going to use the ID.3 as the example as Im looking at that myself...

Using Ionity only....
- Leaving with 58kWh usable, charged at home for 7.63c/kWh so €4.43
- ID.3 appears to be doing 20.5kWh/100km @ 120km/h so it needs 103kWh to complete the journey so lets say 110kWh for buffer.
- That means we need to add 52kWh during the journey @ 79c/kWh. Add 5% for losses so 55kWh.... thats €43
- Total cost for 500km @ 120km/h in an EV is €47.
- A new frugal diesel that will do 5l/100km @ €1.20/l would cost €30.

So, while its not good that the diesel is cheaper in that instance its not 2-3 times more expensive and is just for that one use case and paying the full non-discounted Ionity price.


Another use case is destination charging before you complete the return leg....
- €4.43 to charge at home
- Get to destination and plug into AC charge point @27c/kWh gives €14.85
- A total of €19, so cheaper than the diesel.


Summary... you can do 500km's in an EV cheaper or dearer than a diesel. It depends on your car choice and charging method choice. Its not 2-3 times more expensive.


The reality is that the free lunch for EV charging is nearing its end. Expect costs to rise relative to the free days but unless you are doing that 500km journey everyday it will still be significantly cheaper to own an EV than a diesel as you will primarily charge at home.

Utilising Ionity is akin to buying food at an airport.... expect to pay a premium for that convenience but alternatives exist.

innrain

That 5l/100km on motorway driving is the weak link for this model.
These guys list Kona diesel at over 7l/100km. https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/2020/2739920/hyundai_kona_1_6_t-gdi_2wd_dct.html Unfortunately that's the grey area. EVs are updating their consumption rate instant while ICEs less so
You are perfectly right though. Charging at Ionity is like shopping at convenience store vs supermarket. If you do Dublin Cork often you need a long range (560 km probably) and rely on destination chargers.

catharsis

ELM327 wrote: »

Except they have introduced a new anxiety.
Range anxiety is gone but wallet anxiety is back! Too expensive. Way too expensive. And I include the OEM packages in that. 20 quid a month for 39c/kWh "cheap" rate

What about Jaguar? Are they part?

Audi is €0.31 which you consider WAY too expensive but Tesla is €0.29 ?

Jaguar are not in the Ionity club as far as I know, but I did say 'Majors' - how many iPaces sold in Ireland in total? does anyone know? - I'd bet around 50?
Hardly a major player.

Note also that as far as I know anyone can join the Ionity 'club' and pay the €20/month - it is that most cars include this free that is the advantage of the manufacturers, or have I missed this?

Can you join Volkwagens 'weCharge' for example if not driving a volkswagen? I am not sure but would like to know?

catharsis

KCross wrote: »

Lets say you do a ~500km in the one day (Cork-Dublin return, Dublin-Galway return etc) with obviously lots of motorway in that trip.

What will it cost?...


We need some assumptions (and I know there is lots of variation in the cars and their range etc so its not perfect)
- ~60kWh+ EV with 300km motorway range (e.g. eNiro, Kona, Model 3, ID.3 etc).
- You have home charging available.

If the assumptions are bad for your use case then you have to look at the subscription models where you pay a monthly fee and a reduced kWh rate.

And also look at alternatives to Ionity because you probably dont have an EV that can take 100kW+ anyway so better to utilise cheaper 50kW chargers instead and of course there is the possibility of getting much cheaper topup during the day via 11kW AC to avoid DC charging entirely.


So the costs....

I'm going to use the ID.3 as the example as Im looking at that myself...

Using Ionity only....
- Leaving with 58kWh usable, charged at home for 7.63c/kWh so €4.43
- ID.3 appears to be doing 20.5kWh/100km @ 120km/h so it needs 103kWh to complete the journey so lets say 110kWh for buffer.
- That means we need to add 52kWh during the journey @ 79c/kWh. Add 5% for losses so 55kWh.... thats €43
- Total cost for 500km @ 120km/h in an EV is €47.
- A new frugal diesel that will do 5l/100km @ €1.20/l would cost €30.

So, while its not good that the diesel is cheaper in that instance its not 2-3 times more expensive and is just for that one use case and paying the full non-discounted Ionity price.


Another use case is destination charging before you complete the return leg....
- €4.43 to charge at home
- Get to destination and plug into AC charge point @27c/kWh gives €14.85
- A total of €19, so cheaper than the diesel.


Summary... you can do 500km's in an EV cheaper or dearer than a diesel. It depends on your car choice and charging method choice. Its not 2-3 times more expensive.


The reality is that the free lunch for EV charging is nearing its end. Expect costs to rise relative to the free days but unless you are doing that 500km journey everyday it will still be significantly cheaper to own an EV than a diesel as you will primarily charge at home.

Utilising Ionity is akin to buying food at an airport.... expect to pay a premium for that convenience but alternatives exist.

I'm about 99% certain that your assumption is wrong if you are indeed looking at the ID3 - you get free access to the wWCharge better rate on Ionity - which is either 0.55 or 0.30 (I'm having trouble working out WHICH subscription you get free with the ID3) - so no charging at 0.79, just charging at either 0.55 or 0.30 - which would change the figures in your model.


Otherwise well worked out and a very useful post.

Cyrus

catharsis wrote: »

Audi is €0.31 which you consider WAY too expensive but Tesla is €0.29 ?

Jaguar are not in the Ionity club as far as I know, but I did say 'Majors' - how many iPaces sold in Ireland in total? does anyone know? - I'd bet around 50?
Hardly a major player.

Note also that as far as I know anyone can join the Ionity 'club' and pay the €20/month - it is that most cars include this free that is the advantage of the manufacturers, or have I missed this?

Can you join Volkwagens 'weCharge' for example if not driving a volkswagen? I am not sure but would like to know?

im not sure who offers ionity monhtly subs free, VW maybe with the ID3, but i havent heard of any other, Audi gives ONE free year with the e-tron (so you get the .31c rate for one year) if you want to keep it after that you pay the monthly fee (for me who would use fast charging once every 8 week i wont be)

liamog

KCross wrote: »

Using Ionity only....
- Leaving with 58kWh usable, charged at home for 7.63c/kWh so €4.43
- ID.3 appears to be doing 20.5kWh/100km @ 120km/h so it needs 103kWh to complete the journey so lets say 110kWh for buffer.
- That means we need to add 52kWh during the journey @ 79c/kWh. Add 5% for losses so 55kWh.... thats €43
- Total cost for 500km @ 120km/h in an EV is €47.
- A new frugal diesel that will do 5l/100km @ €1.20/l would cost €30.

The other thing to consider, is that with the ID.3 for €17.49 a month, you can reduce the Ionity fee from 79c/kWh to 30c/kWh. So if you think you are going to do that journey more than 8 times a year, then pay the We Charge membership, and each additional journey is now just €16.50, and gain the convenience of single payer charging.

ELM327

catharsis wrote: »

Audi is €0.31 which you consider WAY too expensive but Tesla is €0.29 ?

Jaguar are not in the Ionity club as far as I know, but I did say 'Majors' - how many iPaces sold in Ireland in total? does anyone know? - I'd bet around 50?
Hardly a major player.

Note also that as far as I know anyone can join the Ionity 'club' and pay the €20/month - it is that most cars include this free that is the advantage of the manufacturers, or have I missed this?

Can you join Volkwagens 'weCharge' for example if not driving a volkswagen? I am not sure but would like to know?

Audi is .31 + 18€/month.
Yes, too expensive.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

Audi is .31 + 18€/month.
Yes, too expensive.

Really depends on usage though, you just have to work out the break even price. €18 a month is very expensive if you are going to use them once a year. If your going to use them once a week, then it works out at decent value, a point which has been raised many times on this thread.