IONITY - charging / fees / tips

Bixler3

New pricing from Maingau as of 1/1/21 is 75c per kWh at Ionity chargers.

Black_Knight

Bixler3 wrote: »

New pricing from Maingau as of 1/1/21 is 75c per kWh at Ionity chargers.

That's it! Maingau are going on the naughty list!

kanuseeme

Bixler3 wrote: »

New pricing from Maingau as of 1/1/21 is 75c per kWh at Ionity chargers.

Seems like Ionity are not the only ones who don't want to play in the B2C space.

:D:D

liamog

kanuseeme wrote: »

Seems like Ionity are not the only ones who don't want to play in the B2C space.

:D:D

Ionity seem to be offering terrible prices to mobility network operators, it's almost like they've been set up to sell cars via a member company instead of electricity to customers ... ...

MJohnston

Remarkable that in Ireland they still have only launched a VW subscription out of pretty much all the manufacturers in the group.

liamog

MJohnston wrote: »

Remarkable that in Ireland they still have only launched a VW subscription out of pretty much all the manufacturers in the group.

I think it's only BMW and Ford that don't offer a subscription yet, notably they also don't have cars that can take advantage of the higher charging speed.

Hyundai (and Kia) only recently finished onboarding, it's not clear whether they will offer the service to existing Kona/Niro drivers.

I see the benefits of the Ionity approach, but it does leave a sour tasted for those who drive earlier cars from the brands.

Cyrus

MJohnston wrote: »

Remarkable that in Ireland they still have only launched a VW subscription out of pretty much all the manufacturers in the group.

Audi have one but the monthly fee means you’d need to use it regularly

wassie

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Would love for someone to give this a go and confirm the rate of €0.45/kWh

Signed up last night and followed @innrains directions. Using N26 account which is also a German bank, but that shouldn’t really make any difference.

Tested on the Ionity chargers at Athlone Circle K and all worked ok and pricing is €0.45 kWh

Reported I had used 11.36kWh but then in transactions details showed 9.086kWh. Was charged on the lower figure.

Disappointed I only could get starting charge rate of ~46kW (40%) which soon dropped to ~30kW by 55%, although outside temp is at zero.

Still makes infrequent use of these chargers now viable for me.

Kudos to @innrain for the tip.

liamog

wassie wrote: »

Disappointed I only could get starting charge rate of ~46kW (40%) which soon dropped to ~30kW by 55%, although outside temp is at zero.

Still makes infrequent use of these charges now viable for me.

Thanks for taking the risk and confirming it worked . Which car do you drive?

wassie

liamog wrote: »

Thanks for taking the risk and confirming it worked . Which car do you drive?

Tesla Model 3

Should also mention I plugged in first then selected charge on the (web) app. Although I suspect it would work in reverse also.

Bixler3

Sorry, is that Maingau or another MSP?

liamog

Bixler3 wrote: »

Sorry, is that Maingau or another MSP?

New one, https://mvv.chargecloud.de/

kaahooters

Cyrus wrote: »

Audi have one but the monthly fee means you’d need to use it regularly

why would you want a subscription?

there designed to lock you in, not for convienance

Cyrus

kaahooters wrote: »

why would you want a subscription?

there designed to lock you in, not for convienance

i don't personally.

i get it free for a year but wont be renewing.

Bixler3

liamog wrote: »

New one, https://mvv.chargecloud.de/

Tried registering but cant change the country from Germany to Ireland. Do you need to have a german address/bank to sign up by ne chance?

liamog

kaahooters wrote: »

why would you want a subscription?

there designed to lock you in, not for convienance

Depends on how much you plan on using an Ionity charger.
Take for instance a driver of an ID.3, for €17.49 per month they can pay 30c/kWh at Ionity instead of 79c/kWh. If you expect to be using more than 36kWh per month at Ionity, then it makes sense to buy a subscription. Given the car has 58kWh available that's roughly 1 charge a month.

People shouldn't be afraid of paid subscriptions, they should simply do the math and work out the optimum option for their own use case. Personally, I value quite highly the fact that Ionity have multiple chargers at a site and are more likely to be available when I arrive. I don't mind paying a premium to have the peace of mind that a charger is going to be available, however, in a normal year, we also probably only travel outside the range of our car once every 6 weeks, so we probably wouldn't bother with a paid subscription.

Silent Running

Bixler3 wrote: »

Tried registering but cant change the country from Germany to Ireland. Do you need to have a german address/bank to sign up by ne chance?

I had the same problem on Chrome. Try another browser. I used Brave, but Firefox should work too.

MJohnston

liamog wrote: »

Depends on how much you plan on using an Ionity charger.
Take for instance a driver of an ID.3, for €17.49 per month they can pay 30c/kWh at Ionity instead of 79c/kWh. If you expect to be using more than 36kWh per month at Ionity, then it makes sense to buy a subscription. Given the car has 58kWh available that's roughly 1 charge a month.

People shouldn't be afraid of paid subscriptions, they should simply do the math and work out the optimum option for their own use case. Personally, I value quite highly the fact that Ionity have multiple chargers at a site and are more likely to be available when I arrive. I don't mind paying a premium to have the peace of mind that a charger is going to be available, however, in a normal year, we also probably only travel outside the range of our car once every 6 weeks, so we probably wouldn't bother with a paid subscription.

The real problem for the IONITY math is that 4 of the 5 charging sites they have in Ireland are located in very remote, motorway service stations. So you'd have to be driving long distances every week to get your money's worth from them — which is not something the average person does. They're not at all useful for the person who doesn't or can't have a home charging setup. And the subscription makes little financial sense for anyone who uses them infrequently.

markpb

liamog wrote: »

People shouldn't be afraid of paid subscriptions, they should simply do the math and work out the optimum option for their own use case. Personally, I value quite highly the fact that Ionity have multiple chargers at a site and are more likely to be available when I arrive.

This is also true for high-cost charging in general, not just subscriptions. People are aghast at paying 80c/kw but most people will use them infrequently. It would cost me about e60 to charge my car from empty which is multiples of what I pay at home (< e6) but it's about the same as I used to pay to fill my old diesel on the same trip. It's not for everyone but for those willing to pay, the speed and reliability are well worth it. The last thing I want is my 5h trek to the wilderness of west Mayo being extended by an additional 45 minutes because someone gets to a charger just ahead of me.

MJohnston wrote: »

The real problem for the IONITY math is that 4 of the 5 charging sites they have in Ireland are located in very remote, motorway service stations. So you'd have to be driving long distances every week to get your money's worth from them — which is not something the average person does. They're not at all useful for the person who doesn't or can't have a home charging setup. And the subscription makes little financial sense for anyone who uses them infrequently.

Liamog's calculation showed the tipping point at 36kW/month for VW which is not hard to do. If you have two sets of grand parents to bring children to, the occasional weekend away, maybe a work trip or two, you'd easily rack up 36kW/month on average across the year.

unkel

markpb wrote: »

This is also true for high-cost charging in general, not just subscriptions. People are aghast at paying 80c/kw but most people will use them infrequently.

This is it.

I have free Tesla supercharging, yet the last time I used one was back in May of last year. I have used CCS fast charging once since I got the current car almost a year ago. At the ESB "very" fast charger at Galway Plaza. I think I paid something like €0.33 per kWh, but honestly I wouldn't have minded paying €0.66 or €0.99. Pretty much immaterial for the few times I do that per year.

ELM327

markpb wrote: »

This is also true for high-cost charging in general, not just subscriptions. People are aghast at paying 80c/kw but most people will use them infrequently. It would cost me about e60 to charge my car from empty which is multiples of what I pay at home (< e6) but it's about the same as I used to pay to fill my old diesel on the same trip. It's not for everyone but for those willing to pay, the speed and reliability are well worth it. The last thing I want is my 5h trek to the wilderness of west Mayo being extended by an additional 45 minutes because someone gets to a charger just ahead of me.



Liamog's calculation showed the tipping point at 36kW/month for VW which is not hard to do. If you have two sets of grand parents to bring children to, the occasional weekend away, maybe a work trip or two, you'd easily rack up 36kW/month on average across the year.

If the gtipping point is 36kWh a month then I'd have the sub for sure.
Ionity are very well placed across the country and fill some gaps not covered by Superchargers


Unfortunately due to covid I dont have my usual travel profile since Q2 last year, and also the option of a sub is not open to me as a tesla owner.


When I had (nefarious) free Ionity use for a few months I used it a lot!

unkel wrote: »

This is it.

I have free Tesla supercharging, yet the last time I used one was back in May of last year. I have used CCS fast charging once since I got the current car almost a year ago. At the ESB "very" fast charger at Galway Plaza. I think I paid something like €0.33 per kWh, but honestly I wouldn't have minded paying €0.66 or €0.99. Pretty much immaterial for the few times I do that per year.

Free SUC is wasted on you.
It's a pity you can't sell that privilege as I believe you'd get a lot of money for it - a lot more than you'd save by using it. As a pragmatic person I think you'd go for that if you could.

AndyBoBandy

yeah, as a once or twice a year usage scenario, I wouldn't mind paying the Ionity rates, simply for the convenience of being almost guaranteed a charger available to use.

Having said that, if I arrived into a multiple supplier services (ESB & Ionity), and the ESB one was available, I'd probably plump for that one instead, and perhaps sacrifice an extra 10-15 minutes of my time for the cheaper charge... but if the ESB is occupied, I'd not hesitate to use the more expensive Ionity...

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

Liamog's calculation showed the tipping point at 36kW/month for VW which is not hard to do. If you have two sets of grand parents to bring children to, the occasional weekend away, maybe a work trip or two, you'd easily rack up 36kW/month on average across the year.

Sure, but I think the math is not that simple because of the existence of non-IONITY charging locations — both other charging networks and home charging.

Personally I'm of the same view as you about high charging costs at stations, in that I don't mind paying the premium. Because I know about 80% of my overall charging costs are going to be incurred at home.

ELM327

I do that at cashel too.
Go for the ESB one and if that's taken then head to Ionity.

Bixler3

Silent Running wrote: »

I had the same problem on Chrome. Try another browser. I used Brave, but Firefox should work too.

Sorted thanks very much, worked with Safari

josip

Kramer wrote: »

33kWh approx so which would be €26 for a "paying" customer.
That'd get a Model 3 approx 160km up the motorway so 16c/km :eek:.

Almost 3 times what a modern diesel would cost & exactly double what my turbocharged, 250+ bhp, 5 series petrol PHEV costs, running exclusively on petrol.

It's a pity Ionity are just so damn expensive .

We drive across Europe every summer and when the time is right, we'll retire the oil burner for an EV.
A pan European charging network like Ionity/Tesla is a must for that to happen.
Our Octavia costs roughly €60 per 1,000 km on those trips.
From posts that I've read, it looks like an EV with similar luggage capacity would cost €100- €120 per 1,000km using an Ionity MSP at the moment?
Will these MSPs cards work across the entire Ionity European network or are they only valid in certain countries?

liamog

MJohnston wrote: »

Sure, but I think the math is not that simple because of the existence of non-IONITY charging locations — both other charging networks and home charging.

Another advantage in the VW case is that once you've paid the subscription 30c/kWh is pretty much the same price as the non subscription eCars rate for a 50kW charger and cheaper than their HPC offering. Also at the moment if you have two cars you can get away with one membership as it's tied to a card not a car.

innrain

Bixler3 wrote: »

Tried registering but cant change the country from Germany to Ireland. Do you need to have a german address/bank to sign up by ne chance?

It's a browser issue. Try Firefox

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

Depends on how much you plan on using an Ionity charger.
Take for instance a driver of an ID.3, for €17.49 per month they can pay 30c/kWh at Ionity instead of 79c/kWh. If you expect to be using more than 36kWh per month at Ionity, then it makes sense to buy a subscription. Given the car has 58kWh available that's roughly 1 charge a month.

People shouldn't be afraid of paid subscriptions, they should simply do the math and work out the optimum option for their own use case. Personally, I value quite highly the fact that Ionity have multiple chargers at a site and are more likely to be available when I arrive. I don't mind paying a premium to have the peace of mind that a charger is going to be available, however, in a normal year, we also probably only travel outside the range of our car once every 6 weeks, so we probably wouldn't bother with a paid subscription.

I have an excel sheet for working out the cost of subscription charges, must see if I can put it online


Anyway, here's the We Charge plans at the discount and full rate


We Charge (Discount rate)|Free|Go|Plus
|||
Ionity price (€/kWh)|0.79|0.55|0.3
Monthly fee|0|0|9.99
Saving (vs Free)|0|0.24|0.49
|||
Break even kWh|0|0|244.65306122449
Efficiency (kWh/100km)|22.5|22.5|22.5
Break even km|0|0|1087.34693877551
|||
Annual DC driving (km)|15000|15000|15000
Annual DC charge (kWh)|3375|3375|3375
Annual charging cost (€)|2666.25|1856.25|1012.5
Annual subscription costs (€)|0|0|119.88
|||
Total Annual cost (€)|2666.25|1856.25|1132.38

We Charge (Normal rate)|Free|Go|Plus
|||
Ionity price (€/kWh)|0.79|0.55|0.3
Monthly fee|0|7.49|17.49
Saving (vs Free)|0|0.24|0.49
|||
Break even kWh per year|0|374.5|428.326530612245
Efficiency (kWh/100km)|22.5|22.5|22.5
Break even km per year|0|1664.44444444444|1903.67346938776
|||
Annual DC driving (km)|15000|15000|15000
Annual DC charge (kWh)|3375|3375|3375
Annual charging cost (€)|2666.25|1856.25|1012.5
Annual subscription costs (€)|0|89.88|209.88
|||
Total Annual cost (€)|2666.25|1946.13|1222.38


In general it takes over 1000km of Ionity charging for these plans to make sense, so they're not much use to a lot of people but for folks who regularly travel long distance they do represent a big saving

the_amazing_raisin

I've uploaded the calculator to google drive, hope everyone can see it

If there's other plans people would like added, please let me know

DC Charging cost calculator