IONITY - charging / fees / tips

slave1 · 21-03-2021 7:54pm

liamog wrote: »

Here's hoping the infrastructure for third party memberships is in place soon enough. The Tesla owners are going to be really upset when Ionity Plug&Charge is only available to the Ionity member companies.

I’m a Tesla owner but am 100% behind anything to eliminate this card/cable mess that has been allowed to happen.
It’s really off putting to someone thinking of the move to EV and then the whole charger compatibility is relayed to them.
Hopefully in a few years they’ll all be cr card based so we can all just hook up and that’s it (except for Tesla SC network of course😉)

ELM327 · 22-03-2021 9:47am

Are there any further Ionity sites planned here or is this our lot?

Black_Knight wrote: »

Dunno. Mixing snake case and camel case. I don't think it's going to work out

This is the problem with pseudo code :P

innrain · 22-03-2021 10:39am

ELM327 wrote: »

Are there any further Ionity sites planned here or is this our lot?

Last year there was a zoom call of IEVOA with Ionity reps and the idea was that is unlikely.

fun facts:
From the 400 units planned 375 have started status so only 25 are unknown. (337 are live)
By looking at geographical distribution Germany has 100 live France 75. These two countries have a bit over 50% of the live stations. The third place is taken by Sweden with 22.
Ionity spreads across 24 countries, there are 6 EU countries with no stations opened and 3 countries from Europe (non-EU) have 43 stations live.

wassie · 22-03-2021 11:00am

I think there an Ionity hub planned for Northern Ireland, but nothing has been officially announced? Also I would have thought things have changed since then since the recent reports they were seeking external investors to fund a further expansion of the network.

WattsUp · 12-04-2021 4:57pm

I had successfully used the EV Rodau app a few times to get Ionity for 49c. It is due to go up to 79c at beginning of May any but it's now stopped working for UK and Ireland chargers for me. Think it happened after an app update.

If you have EV Rodau working I'd advise you not to take an app update, you'll not likely to be using it after 1st May anyway

liamog · 13-04-2021 2:42pm

This is interesting, for anyone who's jealous of the plans you can sign up with other operators.

https://www.chargeandfuel.vwfs.com/#tariffs

Supposedly allows signup by VW Group, Daimler, BMW, Ford and Hyundai, for an €8.90/month plan which brings Ionity to 55c/kWh or €17.80/month for 30c/kWh.
I can't sign up at all with the Mini so not entirely sure if it will work

ELM327 · 13-04-2021 2:43pm

liamog wrote: »

This is interesting, for anyone who's jealous of the plans you can sign up with other operators.

https://www.chargeandfuel.vwfs.com/#tariffs

Supposedly allows signup by VW Group, Daimler, BMW, Ford and Hyundai, for an €8.90/month plan which brings Ionity to 55c/kWh or €17.80/month for 30c/kWh.
I can't sign up at all with the Mini so not entirely sure if it will work

"To select the IONITY "M" and IONITY "L" tariffs, you must enter your vehicle identification number."

You need a vw vin.

WayneEnterprise · 13-04-2021 2:44pm

liamog wrote: »

This is interesting, for anyone who's jealous of the plans you can sign up with other operators.

https://www.chargeandfuel.vwfs.com/#tariffs

Supposedly allows signup by VW Group, Daimler, BMW, Ford and Hyundai, for an €8.90/month plan which brings Ionity to 55c/kWh or €17.80/month for 30c/kWh.
I can't sign up at all with the Mini so not entirely sure if it will work

LogPay - what an awful product name!

ELM327 · 13-04-2021 2:51pm

It describes how crap the Ionity prices are.

liamog · 13-04-2021 2:57pm

ELM327 wrote: »

"To select the IONITY "M" and IONITY "L" tariffs, you must enter your vehicle identification number."

You need a vw vin.

You need a VIN from one of the manufacturers listed, or select other. However my Mini VIN won't work with Other or BMW

ELM327 · 13-04-2021 2:58pm

We have a vw touran outside, might try sign up with that!

liamog · 13-04-2021 2:58pm

WayneEnterprise wrote: »

LogPay - what an awful product name!

It's a pre existing company that covers Fuel and Toll Payments, think of it like EasyTrip.

Black_Knight · 13-04-2021 3:22pm

liamog wrote: »

This is interesting, for anyone who's jealous of the plans you can sign up with other operators.

https://www.chargeandfuel.vwfs.com/#tariffs

Supposedly allows signup by VW Group, Daimler, BMW, Ford and Hyundai, for an €8.90/month plan which brings Ionity to 55c/kWh or €17.80/month for 30c/kWh.
I can't sign up at all with the Mini so not entirely sure if it will work

That's a pretty crappy deal. Rather just use chargepoint @ 64c/kWh. If Ireland was littered with Ionity units it might be a decent option, but there's only a few.

liamog · 13-04-2021 3:37pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

That's a pretty crappy deal. Rather just use chargepoint @ 64c/kWh. If Ireland was littered with Ionity units it might be a decent option, but there's only a few.

It all depends on your level of usage, it's better to have the option available than not at all.

the_amazing_raisin · 13-04-2021 4:01pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

That's a pretty crappy deal. Rather just use chargepoint @ 64c/kWh. If Ireland was littered with Ionity units it might be a decent option, but there's only a few.

I did the math and it's basically the same deal as We Charge

We Charge|Free|Go|Plus|Logpay|Standard|Ionity M|Ionity L
|||||||
Ionity price (€/kWh)|0.79|0.55|0.3||0.79|0.52|0.29
Monthly fee|0|7.49|17.49||4.38|9.1|17.85
Saving (vs Free)|0|0.24|0.49||0|0.27|0.5
|||||||
Break even kWh per year|0|374.5|428.33||0|404.4|428.4
Efficiency (kWh/100km)|22.5|22.5|22.5||22.5|22.5|22.5
Break even km per year|0|1664.4|1903.7||0|1797.5|1904
|||||||
Annual DC driving (km)|15000|15000|15000||15000|15000|15000
Annual DC charge (kWh)|3375|3375|3375||3375|3375|3375
Annual charging cost (€)|2666.25|1856.25|1012.5||2666.25|1755|978.75
Annual subscription costs (€)|0|89.88|209.88||52.56|109.2|214.2
|||||||
Total Annual cost (€)|2666.25|1946.13|1222.38||2718.81|1864.2|1192.95

Having to pay a monthly fee for the standard package is fairly ridiculous, you basically get nothing for it

innrain · 13-04-2021 5:46pm

If you calculate the break even against chargepoint you get something like 100kWh per month for the M plan or 1.2MWh per year.

innrain · 13-04-2021 5:58pm

I saw this on plugshare recently. Taycan charging at nearly 250kW @Kill South. https://photos.plugshare.com/photos/706090.jpeg
Presumably a good news for next gen Hyundai/Kia.

the_amazing_raisin · 13-04-2021 10:55pm

innrain wrote: »

If you calculate the break even against chargepoint you get something like 100kWh per month for the M plan or 1.2MWh per year.

Ah yeah, I should really use the chargepoint price as the base rate

100kWh a month is pretty achievable, two roundtrips from Dublin to Cork in an ID.4 would do that I reckon

So if you're someone who does that once a week it's definitely worth looking at the paid plans

innrain · 14-04-2021 9:19am

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Ah yeah, I should really use the chargepoint price as the base rate

100kWh a month is pretty achievable, two roundtrips from Dublin to Cork in an ID.4 would do that I reckon

So if you're someone who does that once a week it's definitely worth looking at the paid plans

Every month for the whole year. I think in that case L plan is better value anyway cause is 214 /.34c ~630kWh in a year or 60kWh per month.

the_amazing_raisin · 14-04-2021 9:34am

Comparison of Ionity paid plans against chargepoint rate (64c/kWh)

|Chargepoint|We Charge|Free|Go|Plus|Logpay|Standard|Ionity M|Ionity L
|||||||||
Ionity price (€/kWh)|0.64||0.79|0.55|0.3||0.79|0.52|0.30
Monthly fee|0||0|7.49|17.49||4.38|9.1|17.80
Saving (vs Free)|0||0|0.09|0.34||0|0.12|0.34
|||||||||
Break even kWh per year|0||0|998.6666667|617.2941176||0|910|630
Efficiency (kWh/100km)|22.5||22.5|22.5|22.5||22.5|22.5|22.5
Break even km per year|0||0|4438.518519|2743.529412||0|4044.444444|2800
|||||||||
Annual DC driving (km)|5000||5000|5000|5000||5000|5000|5000
Annual DC charge (kWh)|1125||1125|1125|1125||1125|1125|1125
Annual charging cost (€)|720||888.75|618.75|337.5||888.75|585|337.5
Annual subscription costs (€)|0||0|89.88|209.88||52.56|109.2|214.2
|||||||||
Total Annual cost (€)|720||888.75|708.63|547.38||941.31|694.2|551.7

I've also dropped the DC driving mileage down to 5000km, as I think this is a more accurate reflection of the average user. Anyone above this it basically makes no sense to use anything but the highest plan

It looks like the Ionity M plan is fairly useless against Chargepoint, the Ionity L plan pays off much earlier in terms of cost

liamog · 14-04-2021 9:43am

Point of order!

The Ionity L plan is €17.80/month and 30c/kWh when you select the country as Ireland.
So basically the same as the We Charge Plus plan, but an extra 31c per month on the subscription.

innrain · 14-04-2021 9:51am

I think you're off with the prices just few cents. Are you sure you're looking at Irish site? for me M is 55c and L is 30c. No major anyway.
I wonder what would be the prices for ecars and easygo with the plan.

the_amazing_raisin · 14-04-2021 10:06am

liamog wrote: »

Point of order!

The Ionity L plan is €17.80/month and 30c/kWh when you select the country as Ireland.
So basically the same as the We Charge Plus plan, but an extra 31c per month on the subscription.

Ah, I was only able to see the UK pricing, thanks for that

I've updated the table with the Irish prices

MJohnston · 14-04-2021 11:05am

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Comparison of Ionity paid plans against chargepoint rate (64c/kWh)

|Chargepoint|We Charge|Free|Go|Plus|Logpay|Standard|Ionity M|Ionity L
|||||||||
Ionity price (€/kWh)|0.64||0.79|0.55|0.3||0.79|0.52|0.30
Monthly fee|0||0|7.49|17.49||4.38|9.1|17.80
Saving (vs Free)|0||0|0.09|0.34||0|0.12|0.34
|||||||||
Break even kWh per year|0||0|998.6666667|617.2941176||0|910|630
Efficiency (kWh/100km)|22.5||22.5|22.5|22.5||22.5|22.5|22.5
Break even km per year|0||0|4438.518519|2743.529412||0|4044.444444|2800
|||||||||
Annual DC driving (km)|5000||5000|5000|5000||5000|5000|5000
Annual DC charge (kWh)|1125||1125|1125|1125||1125|1125|1125
Annual charging cost (€)|720||888.75|618.75|337.5||888.75|585|337.5
Annual subscription costs (€)|0||0|89.88|209.88||52.56|109.2|214.2
|||||||||
Total Annual cost (€)|720||888.75|708.63|547.38||941.31|694.2|551.7

I've also dropped the DC driving mileage down to 5000km, as I think this is a more accurate reflection of the average user. Anyone above this it basically makes no sense to use anything but the highest plan

It looks like the Ionity M plan is fairly useless against Chargepoint, the Ionity L plan pays off much earlier in terms of cost

I've converted this into a dynamic Google sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GrBNp_LJB-Em5Sy30hQvbXH3sVurs4sH9bSDzm87iYg/edit?usp=sharing

Everybody can make a copy and input their own values to see where their break-even point is!

redcup342 · 14-04-2021 12:42pm

liamog wrote: »

Point of order!

The Ionity L plan is €17.80/month and 30c/kWh when you select the country as Ireland.
So basically the same as the We Charge Plus plan, but an extra 31c per month on the subscription.

Jesus Christ what a rip off.

Hopefully some competitors will come into the Irish Market soon.

I would say Ireland is now one of the most expensive in Europe next to Denmark and the other Scandinavian countries.

liamog · 14-04-2021 12:47pm

redcup342 wrote: »

I would say Ireland is now one of the most expensive in Europe next to Denmark and the other Scandinavian countries.

This isn't an Irish plan, it's a European wide scheme that covers Ionity Charging.
We've covered many times the purposes of the Ionity network, if you don't like their business model use an alternative.

the_amazing_raisin · 14-04-2021 3:11pm

liamog wrote: »

This isn't an Irish plan, it's a European wide scheme that covers Ionity Charging.
We've covered many times the purposes of the Ionity network, if you don't like their business model use an alternative.

I think one of the main annoyances is that there are discounts available for customers in other countries which aren't available for Irish ones

I'm currently having an email argument with VW Ireland because ID owners in other countries get the We Charge plans with €10 off the monthly rate for 3 years, but they withdrew that offer in Ireland :mad:

If there were more offers for Ionity then it'd be fine but I guess the market in Ireland is so small they aren't bothered

liamog · 14-04-2021 3:36pm

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I think one of the main annoyances is that there are discounts available for customers in other countries which aren't available for Irish ones

I understand that frustration, the manufacturers themselves aren't covered in roses, at least VW make the service available here. It's impossible to sign up to BMW/Mini's charging service here.

It's an area I think the EU should regulate, freedom of movement requires a user to freely cross borders, roaming agreements should be mandated to avoid the need for 17 different accounts.

the_amazing_raisin · 14-04-2021 3:51pm

liamog wrote: »

I understand that frustration, the manufacturers themselves aren't covered in roses, at least VW make the service available here. It's impossible to sign up to BMW/Mini's charging service here.

It's an area I think the EU should regulate, freedom of movement requires a user to freely cross borders, roaming agreements should be mandated to avoid the need for 17 different accounts.

Actually, you make an interesting point, I wonder if this would be covered under anti blocking legislation that already exists in the EU? Since it's effectively the same service, can the likes of VW legally offer different packages to customers in different EU countries?

redcup342 · 14-04-2021 5:09pm

liamog wrote: »

This isn't an Irish plan, it's a European wide scheme that covers Ionity Charging.
We've covered many times the purposes of the Ionity network, if you don't like their business model use an alternative.

Well thats point really, you don't have any feasible alternatives for DC Fast charging. Ionity chargers are empty on the continent people avoid them like the plague. Only ones you'll see using Ionity now are people that got a lease car before the price jump and their charging was included in the lease as kilometers instead of kWh.

Even in Poland you have Greenway DC Rapid Chargers all over country, along with Orlen and Tesla SCs of Course.

In Germany you have Fastned, Enbw, Various Stadtwerkes and a few other foreign companies.

In the Netherlands you have too many providers to count (fastned is the most famous of course)

I think Ireland is probably the worst country I've researched for doing a trip, it's at the same level Central/Eastern Europe was 4/5 years ago.

IONITY - charging / fees / tips

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