Those caught with drugs won't face criminal conviction

drunkmonkey

MrFresh wrote: »

Not sure what point you are trying to make there. Can you clarify?

That you can be arrested and brought before a judge for €3 worth of cannabis. It's not necessarily done via summons to court.

drunkmonkey

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

This is essentially just extending the Adult Caution Scheme to personal possession drug offences with an additional layer relating to sending people down a healthcare path.

They haven't said what it is personal and what's not and which drugs there referring to. I'd assume it's everything which is a bit odd.

suicide_circus

such an irish solution.

although threatening people with a mandatory visit to the HSE may scare them straight!

MrFresh

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That you can be arrested and brought before a judge for €3 worth of cannabis. It's not necessarily done via summons to court.

That tweet doesn't mention an arrest though.

Sierra Oscar

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They haven't said what it is personal and what's not and which drugs there referring to. I'd assume it's everything which is a bit odd.

I’m assuming it’s for Section 3 Offences of the Misuse of Drugs Act, 1977. That relates to personal possession of all controlled drugs set out in the principle Act - i.e. all illegal drugs.

The Gardaí already differentiate between what’s personal possession and what’s possession with intent to supply. I’d imagine this will be fairly straightfward and will simply involve extending the Adult Caution Scheme to Section 3 offences.

drunkmonkey

It's a pretty significant change, a lot more liberal than it looks.

MrFresh

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's a pretty significant change, a lot more liberal than it looks.

Only for first and second time offenders though. It's not going to affect the real problem very much.

drunkmonkey

MrFresh wrote: »

Only for first and second time offenders though. It's not going to affect the real problem very much.

It's going to free up a lot of Garda time, that'll effect the main problem.

Ash.J.Williams

OldGoat wrote: »

I don't get this 3 strike thing. In law if something is not criminal on the first occasion nor criminal on the second occasion then how can it be criminal on any subsequent occasions?
Is it still a criminal offence to purchase an ounce of hash? Can I now purchase a bulk lot of weed to keep the prices down as long as I only have it for personal use? Does sharing with my friends a smoke of my personal stash invalidate the 'personal' rule?
I'm looking forward to reading the statutes for this new policy.

All in all it's just seems like clutter leading to obfuscation rather that making an actual attempt at decriminalising some drugs.

Its really not that difficult to understand

Ash.J.Williams

MrFresh wrote: »

Only for first and second time offenders though. It's not going to affect the real problem very much.

First time offender having to have a discussion with a professional is highly significant

drunkmonkey

Where does growing your own cannabis for personal use fall into this as it seems to usually attract 2 charges, one for the possession (which now gets you sent to the HSE) and the other is cultivation of cannabis.

STB.

MrFresh wrote: »

You don't get arrested for 10 euro worth of hash. At worst, you get brought to the station for a search and then released. You don't go to prison for 10 euro worth of hash. Most simple possession cases are dealt with by summons or by court presenters so their draw on Garda manpower is minimal.

What a load of nonsense. People regularly end up before the courts for negligible amounts of cannabis.

Possession of cannabis is still a criminal offence and it is an arrestable offence. Whether the Garda use their discretion or not to arrest, 75% of drugs offences that end up in the courts are for possession. 70% of possessions are for cannabis. An inordinate amount of time by AGS and the judiciary is taken up for a "drug" that we have been slow to legalise and/or decriminalise. Time that could be better spent elsewhere.

This latest stunt whereby the a Department has to suggest an alternative approach for the possession of illegal drugs for personal use in the absence of any action following Varadkar's promises over a year ago that they were looking at the decriminalisation of cannabis along the lines of Canada's model.

MrFresh

STB. wrote: »

What a load of nonsense. People regularly end up before the courts for negligible amounts of cannabis.

Possession of cannabis is still a criminal offence and it is an arrestable offence. Whether the Garda use their discretion or not to arrest, 75% of drugs offences that end up in the courts are for possession. 70% of possessions are for cannabis. An inordinate amount of time by AGS and the judiciary is taken up for a "drug" that we have been slow to legalise and/or decriminalise. Time that could be better spent elsewhere.

This latest stunt whereby the a Department has to suggest an alternative approach for the possession of illegal drugs for personal use in the absence of any action following Varadkar's promises over a year ago that they were looking at the decriminalisation of cannabis along the lines of Canada's model.

People seem to be arguing against something I didn't say. I never said people don't end up before courts for possession of cannabis.

dasdog

Seems like a particularly Irish solution. I'd like to know how many people caught in possession of chemical "whatever-you-were-caught-with" are chemical addicts that need to be referred to HSE for their world renowned treatment.

While it's welcome to see realisation that the current laws are antiquated and spastic they've decided on a half arsed approach that will introduce ambiguity and solve nothing.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Well the prisons are full to capacity. So in the absence of building more prisons. Drug liberalisation is the only logical solution to this social issue.

Treating drug usage as a mental health issue will almost certainly lead to better outcomes for society as a whole, and also for the individual.
Portugal has drastically reduced the amount of heroin users and drug overdoses in the past decade. Holland has a lower level of cannabis usage than many other European countries where it is illegal.

Giving people criminal records for simple possession is wrong on a moral level but also has a negative effect on society.

Making drugs illegal has not made them less available.

The Drugs Squad should focus their resources and attention at the big fish that have been the source for most of the gangland murders in Ireland.

MrFresh

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Well the prisons are full to capacity. So in the absence of building more prisons. Drug liberalisation is the only logical solution to this social issue.

Treating drug usage as a mental health issue will almost certainly lead to better outcomes for society as a whole, and also for the individual.
Portugal has drastically reduced the amount of heroin users and drug overdoses in the past decade. Holland has a lower level of cannabis usage than many other European countries where it is illegal.

Giving people criminal records for simple possession is wrong on a moral level but also has a negative effect on society.

Making drugs illegal has not made them less available.

The Drugs Squad should focus their resources and attention at the big fish that have been the source for most of the gangland murders in Ireland.

That's what they do.

Cushie Butterfield

nthclare wrote: »

Ye can party away without the fear of getting in trouble or losing your job's.

Burn the midnight oil again and again....

Which was the current situation up to this anyway, the only difference will be now they can get caught twice before any serious repercussions but their cards will have been marked.

So it's definitely not a case of partying away without the fear of getting in trouble or losing their jobs.

I see this as a good thing for the young & foolish (most people have been young & foolish in one way or another). Just look at the Irish guy living in the USA recently in the news done for possession years ago: a guy with a wife & young kids running his own business whose lives have all been shattered over a foolish mistake years ago.

The notion that this is a free pass for drug users is not the case as far as I can see.

On a side note the HSE is on its knees, so how they'll be able to cope with all these extra referrals is unrealistic imo - more backlogs I suppose.

skooterblue2

the dark phantom wrote: »

I'm calling crap on your lie, Iv been inside for less than 5 Euro of Hash.

you must have had either one **** lawyer or you started talking.

Danzy

drunkmonkey wrote: »

A radical 'three-strike' plan that will see people caught with small amounts of illegal drugs avoid criminal conviction on the first and second occasion but face the courts on the third will be unveiled by the Government today.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/those-caught-with-drugs-wont-face-criminal-conviction-until-third-offence-under-radical-threestrike-plan-38367865.html

Bit of reality at last.

Too much Garda time etc wasted on small possession charges.

the dark phantom

skooterblue2 wrote: »

you must have had either one **** lawyer or you started talking.

I was wrong in the original post so apologies to the poster, I was actually brought to prison for not paying the fine over the 5 euro worth of hash, Guards valued it at 5 euro it was actually a makings worth no more than 2/3 euro.

I've a handful of cannabis convictions, 5 in under 14 years.. 1 joint 3 makings 1 half ounce / all hash. Sent straight in for the half ounce and twice for not paying the fines. Wasn't kept in long only did 1 night for the half ounce hash.

skooterblue2

the dark phantom wrote: »

I was wrong in the original post so apologies to the poster, I was actually brought to prison for not paying the fine over the 5 euro worth of hash, Guards valued it at 5 euro it was actually a makings worth no more than 2/3 euro.

I've a handful of cannabis convictions, 5 in under 14 years.. 1 joint 3 makings 1 half ounce / all hash. Sent straight in for the half ounce and twice for not paying the fines. Wasn't kept in long only did 1 night for the half ounce hash.

Did you admit that it was yours?
Did agree it was hash/cannabis?