Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Gdpr and horrible situation
Options
-
03-08-2019 8:07am#1Hopefully someone can offer some insight.
I started a new job recently, 3 months approx in the service industry. I have two managers, and 2 supervisors as there is 2 depts within the business.
Last week I had an issue whereby a customer attended for her appointment and was extremely abusive before the appointment had even begun. She refused to consent to have services done with me twice and only after my manager spoke to her did she agree to allow the treatment be carried out, begrudgingly, with me. She declined her appointment more than once with me initially so I was nervous taking her.
While alone with her she was very rude and aggressive. The treatment was an hour long, and she made me feel so uncomfortable the whole time, she was uncooperative at all times, refusing to engage in a consultation and telling me I should know as I was a so called professional, though I knew no matter what I did I would not be able to satisfy her.
At the 40 minute mark, after many attempts on her side to start an arguement, I felt unsafe as she was not acting rationally and was spoiling for a fight. I left the service momentarily and approached my manager to say I was upset and was not happy about having to continue with her. My manager told me to go back in and finish it. While I stepped back in the room, she made another outrageous claim and I set voice notes on my phone to record the rest of the treatment. (20 mins 31 seconds) there was nothing at all spoken on record until about 18 minutes and it was just benign, ending the service etc. Had she accused me of anything I felt at least I had this.
I noted on the account that she was aggressive confrontational and abusive and I would not be having any more interaction with her.
The following day another team member approached me and asked me what happened, I told her and mentioned I felt like I had no option but to record her.
The following day, her (just a part time team member on same level as me) and my manager brought me into the office and went through it in detail, blaming me, saying I inflamed the situation recording her and leaving such a defamatory note on her, the team member told me she was alarmed I felt the need to record a customer and that I was in the service industry so should not take this so personally and that it’s oart and parcel of what you are expected to deal with. The manager spoke about the repercussions and how serious recording someone was, and the fact I’m still on probation in front of the team member and I felt completely ambushed. My manager said I wasn’t clear that I did not want to proceed with the service although walking out of her service would have inflamed the situation. She received the service for free, which affects my targets and impacted on my evening as I didn’t get to leave work for 30 minutes after my finishing time which in turn saw me returning home 1hr later than I usually would. I am upset as she received a good service and it was through no fault of my own. I feel giving her the free treatment validated her feeling upset and justified in her outbursts.
My other manager has been out but is aware of the situation (not the escalation yet) and is on my side, said I should never have been in that situation.
I am so unhappy. How can I deal with this without making it worse.0
Comments
-
I left the service momentarily and approached my manager to say I was upset and was not happy about having to continue with her. My manager told me to go back in and finish it.
****ty manager. If it were me I would have come in and taken over.I set voice notes on my phone to record the rest of the treatment. (20 mins 31 seconds) there was nothing at all spoken on record until about 18 minutes and it was just benign, ending the service etc.
I understand why you did this, but it's really unprofessional and I can understand why your manager is like wtf.
I don't think you're going to like me advice:
I think you should tell your manager you're sorry you're recorded the appointment and left the bad comment. Say your manager is right and this won't happen again.
I don't agree with your manager's dismissal of your feelings, however I do think if you want to work in the service industry you need to toughen up. That's a lot of massive ***** out there and you're going to come across them every now and then. Personally I would be a tough prick with these people.0 -
Deal with what? If I was your manager there is no way I'd be having you back into work and if the probation allowed immediate termination I'd invoke it. I am genuinely amazed you actually felt recording the last 20 minutes was acceptable, that decision making alone would be enough to want to get rid of someone.
If it got out that you recorded the session then the reputation of your employer would be destroyed.
Go in and apologise and be delighted if you still have a job once your probation is finished.0 -
While it is not illegal to record a conversation you have with another person, recording a client in a private service session on your own mobile phone is a huge issue, the client is paying for the service and has an expectation of privacy. This could be hugely damaging for your employer and a career killer for you. I assume you were told to delete it immediately, before you left the premises, if you took that recording off premises, that could be a significant GDPR breach, the client may be identifiable and personal data may be on your phone.
Edit: I see you still had the recording the following day, I’m not sure how you still have a job, possibly the business does not want it to get out that one of their Therapists was recording client sessions on private phone.
In relation to the client, your employer has a duty of care to you, not to put you in situations where harm could come to you. However, in service industries where you deal face to face with clients, awkward clients are a fact of life, and regular clients often feel a sense of entitlement. While some will tell you that you should not have to put up with them, the reality is that it is something all service providers have to accept at times. The more experience you get, the more you learn to deal with people like that lady.0 -
Iamveryupset wrote: »My other manager has been out but is aware of the situation (not the escalation yet) and is on my side
This just proves how naive you are.
Op, you're only in the door. Keep your nose clean if you want to keep your job.
Be careful what you write on a customer's file - they can request a copy.
As for the recording. I understand why you did it - I've recorded conversations in the past when dealing with manipulative/dishonest people at work, and I've never had to use the recordings. But why would you tell anyone you made a recording? If that got out the company could be in a lot of trouble.
Next step. Apologise to your manager. And reevaluate your behaviour. If you don't like the job you can always leave.0 -
So much wrong here.
Firstly you have opened the business up to a claim against it for breach of gdpr, this can be substantial. Recording the customer was a massive mistake, grounds for summary dismissal pending investigation if you were my employee.
Your manager seemed to throw you to the wolves rather than either step in and take over or go back in along with you to oversee what was happening.
To me it seems you manager doesn’t have your back, the employee who stitched you up doesn’t seem to have your back, and at least one customer seems to hate you. Are you really sure your the victim you say ??
My advice is leave this job and look elsewhere.
Hopefully you’ve been here short enough time that you can just leave it off cv’s and not require a reference from them.
You need to learn how to interact with people both customers and managers.0 -
Advertisement
-
Only if the customer was unaware of it. Which I gather they weren't.Firstly you have opened the business up to a claim against it for breach of gdpr, this can be substantial.
Even then, there's no GDPR issue really if the recording has been deleted shortly after the employer has realised the mistake. It's a minor infraction from a data protection PoV.
I'd agree with this. It was poor management that drove the OP to make a poor decision in recording the customer. The OP can't fix poor management.Your manager seemed to throw you to the wolves rather than either step in and take over or go back in along with you to oversee what was happening.
To me it seems you manager doesn’t have your back, the employee who stitched you up doesn’t seem to have your back, and at least one customer seems to hate you. Are you really sure your the victim you say ??
My advice is leave this job and look elsewhere.
Yes and no. The OP absolutely did the right thing in walking out of the session, and in making notes about the customer's conduct in the file.You need to learn how to interact with people both customers and managers.
Being professional doesn't require that somone should be a doormat. And an employer should reinforce this.
The OP should maintain their assertive stance, but learn that assertiveness means calmly walking away from abusive customers, and also refusing to carry out an employer's directions when they feel unsafe.
All the employer has done in this instance is demonstrated that no matter how much abuse an employee gets, they will always side with the customer over their employee.
A professional employer would have banned the customer (in addition to any disciplinary action against the employee).0 -
Only if the customer was unaware of it. Which I gather they weren't.
Even then, there's no GDPR issue really if the recording has been deleted shortly after the employer has realised the mistake. It's a minor infraction from a data protection PoV.
.
Sorry, but this is wrong.
Whether the person whose data rights have been breached is aware of the breach is not the measure of the issue.
A member of the public who is having, and paying for a private treatment session has an expectation, and indeed a right to privacy. The treatment is not being done in a public place where it can be seen and heard. Recording that session without the clients knowledge, and then taking that recording off site is a significant data breach. What if the recording was a video instead of audio, would you still think it was ok for the op to have it?0 -
-
IMO you are confusing a possible breach of the privacy rights of the customer (i.e. their expectation of privacy) with a breach of their data protection rights
they are two different things
I am not confused.
https://iapp.org/news/a/how-do-the-rules-on-audio-recording-change-under-the-gdpr/0 -
well, that's not an Ireland specific article. we have constitutional elements around privacy which is what I was referring to
that article is also about Organisation's official policies about recording (for example for training purposes). That is about officially recording on the organisations phone system and possibly using that recording for training other staff
What happened here is quite different. As the OP recorded the conversation on their own device it is likely outside the control of the Controller (and thus of the GDPR responsibilities)
IMO they are not the controller for the recording and therefore are not responsible for it from a GDPR perspective
It is also not automatically the case that a recording of a conversation would include personal data of the person. It would depend on what was in the conversation.
the issue of whether or not the OP is a controller of the recording will depend on if they decided to do anything further with the recording.0 -
Advertisement
-
well, that's not an Ireland specific article. we have constitutional elements around privacy which is what I was referring to
that article is also about Organisation's official policies about recording (for example for training purposes). That is about officially recording on the organisations phone system and possibly using that recording for training other staff
What happened here is quite different. As the OP recorded the conversation on their own device it is likely outside the control of the Controller (and thus of the GDPR responsibilities)
IMO they are not the controller for the recording and therefore are not responsible for it from a GDPR perspective
It is also not automatically the case that a recording of a conversation would include personal data of the person. It would depend on what was in the conversation.
the issue of whether or not the OP is a controller of the recording will depend on if they decided to do anything further with the recording.
GDPR regulations are not specific to each country, it is a Europe-wide framework for data protection. The regulations apply to all countries in the EU.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32016R0679&from=EN
From the previously linked article:
Audio recording under the GDPR
“The bar for valid consent has been raised much higher under the GDPR. Consents must be freely given, specific, informed, and unambiguous; tacit consent would no longer be enough.”
In the ops case, the lady was a client and the op recorded her during the conduct of a business related service, In terms of GDPR and data protection, how this could be construed only in terms of an individual recording another individual rather than a company employee recording a client is beyond me.0 -
GDPR regulations are not specific to each country, it is a Europe-wide framework for data protection. The regulations apply to all countries in the EU.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32016R0679&from=EN
From the previously linked article:
Audio recording under the GDPR
“The bar for valid consent has been raised much higher under the GDPR. Consents must be freely given, specific, informed, and unambiguous; tacit consent would no longer be enough.”
In the ops case, the lady was a client and the op recorded her during the conduct of a business related service, In terms of GDPR and data protection, how this could be construed only in terms of an individual recording another individual rather than a company employee recording a client is beyond me.
Grand so, you know best
Just so you know, Certain aspects of GDPR allow for national legislation hence why we have the DATA Protection Act 2018
We also have a written constitution which includes concepts of privacy to which I was referring
Personal data is defined in GDPR and a conversation is not necessarily covered. You would need the context.
Anyway that's enough for me as I'm off on holidays.0
Advertisement