Mass shooting in el paso

Harry Palmr

I think this variety of mass killer (they are not all the same) is ego centric nihilism combined with a wider environment of hate and rancour about "other" and the supposed threat it poses to the status quo of the suburban nobody

lawlolawl

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Well yes, he should. Thays what being in power givew you the , eh, power, to do.

The same could be said about every previous president. It's not that easy.

As I said, they opened Pandora's Box with the "right now bear arms" thing.

Boggles

25-year-old mother died shielding her baby from El Paso gunman

Her sister, Leta Jamrowski, 19, told US media that Ms Anchondo appeared to have thrown herself on top of her two-month-old baby, which survived the massacre but broke several bones.

“From the baby’s injuries, they said that more than likely my sister was trying to shield him,” she said.

“So when she got shot she was holding him and she fell on him, so that’s why he broke some of his bones. So he pretty much lived because she gave her life.”

That is fair grim.

Igotadose

lawlolawl wrote: »

The same could be said about every previous president. It's not that easy.

As I said, they opened Pandora's Box with the "right now bear arms" thing.

It's the second amendment. Interpreting it has been the challenge for the US since it was founded. Money has led it to be interpreted as allowing an extremely free gun culture. The "Pandora's box' opened some time ago.

Itssoeasy

Boggles wrote: »

25-year-old mother died shielding her baby from El Paso gunman



That is fair grim.

It is fairly grim as you say, but if I've learned anything about gun violence in the US, it's that horrible descriptions don't work on changing the narrative. Nothing will change in America unless and until the people as a whole decide to change how guns are viewed there. As i've said in this thread earlier and at other times, if the murder of six and seven year old kids in Sandy hook isn't enough to bring about change then nothing will.

MrFresh

From Trump's State of the Union address

"The border city of El Paso, Texas, used to have extremely high rates of violent crime — one of the highest in the country, and considered one of our nation's most dangerous cities. Now, with a powerful barrier in place, El Paso is one of our safest cities."

Didn't age very well. It was also a lie of course but that's to be expected.

Timberrrrrrrr

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It is fairly grim as you say, but if I've learned anything about gun violence in the US, it's that horrible descriptions don't work on changing the narrative. Nothing will change in America unless and until the people as a whole decide to change how guns are viewed there. As i've said in this thread earlier and at other times, if the murder of six and seven year old kids in Sandy hook isn't enough to bring about change then nothing will.

It was said shortly after sandy hook that if the pics of the scene were released then the majority of people would never handle a gun again.

I think they should release those pics, and pics of every mass shooting since, show them on mainstream tv (after 9pm) and use collective guilt to try and stop this madness.

tuxy

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It was said shortly after sandy hook that if the pics of the scene were released then the majority of people would never handle a gun again.

I think they should release those pics, and pics of every mass shooting since, show them on mainstream tv (after 9pm) and use collective guilt to try and stop this madness.

That's exactly the same approach many believe will encourage more people to carry out mass shootings.

Muahahaha

Already posted but this link has a good analysis on 8Chans links with the Christchurch shooter, the Garlic Festival shooter and last nights Walmart shooter. Says that there is now a gameification of mass shootings with right wing nuts trying to outdo each other to get "a high score"

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/08/04/the-el-paso-shooting-and-the-gamification-of-terror/

Spanish Eyes

When the murder of children in Sandy Hook didn't change anything, nothing will now imo.

Itssoeasy

Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan just swore live on MSNBC and it wasn't bleeped.

Manic Moran

Could they not just hugely increase taxes on fire-arms and ammunition? I presume more to it like.

Not legal, for the same reason that they can't really put much of a tax on media, etc beyond 'standard' such as sales tax.

If you have a Constitutional right to something, you can't restrict it by back-door regulation or excessive taxation.

MrFresh

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not legal, for the same reason that they can't really put much of a tax on media, etc beyond 'standard' such as sales tax.

If you have a Constitutional right to something, you can't restrict it by back-door regulation or excessive taxation.

What would be needed would be a constitutional amendment to clarify the first few words of that particular right.

RasTa

Being caught up in mass shootings is part and parcel of being an American. If you don't like it, you can get out!

tuxy

Would this have happened if the state of Texas made it easy to get a concealed carry licence?
It's clear there was not enough people in the Walmart who were armed sufficiently to defend themselves.
Or is it just a case of a handgun having no chance against a rifle?
Open carry could be the way to go.

sdanseo

MrFresh wrote: »

What would be needed would be a constitutional amendment to clarify the first few words of that particular right.

Constitutional amendments in the US are exceedingly difficult to get to the table, let alone pass.

66% of congress has to vote in favour. There is rarely that sort of majority in either house. The amendment then has to be ratified by the state legislatures of at least 38 states.

Any meaningful restriction, rewording or removal of the 2nd Amendment would have absolutely no hope whatsoever of passing without many years of bipartisan campaigning in its favour. Blue and Red would have to agree.

If you could get a majority of the Supreme court to back an interpretation of the amendment (e.g. the Assault Weapons Ban) then you could have meaningful, legal restrictions without touching the constitution. But given that Trump has backpedalled a decade or more of progress through his warmongering, dangerous and completely untrue rhetoric that seems nearly as unlikely at the moment.

tuxy

More people like this are needed, they can't be everywhere at once unless everyone gets on board.

Guy:Incognito

lawlolawl wrote: »

The same could be said about every previous president. It's not that easy.

As I said, they opened Pandora's Box with the "right now bear arms" thing.

So the excuse is "I'm **** on this and that's ok because so were previous presidents" ?
Not make any effort whatsoever to better things? Dont try bring any legislation?

Hes **** and no about of whataboutery is going to change that.

8-10

tuxy wrote: »

It's clear there was not enough people in the Walmart who were armed sufficiently to defend themselves.

Texas had concealed carry and so did this mall.

If anything is clear it's that radicalisation of young white men is happening in America. A new breed of suicide bombers and domestic terrorists

Spanish Eyes

So sorry for those who were murdered.

But the gun laws did not mean that gun carrying folk could take the perp down did they?

Terrible stuff and what is the effing point of it all, apart from allowing monsters and murderers to proliferate.

Sadly it will be all over tomorrow. Next.

tuxy

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

S

But the gun laws did not mean that gun carrying folk could take the perp down did they?

Gun ownership is high in Texas but most people leave them at home making the useless.

Muahahaha

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

When the murder of children in Sandy Hook didn't change anything, nothing will now imo.

Yeah Sandy Hook was a watershed moment. If legislators weren't going to act after the massacre of 20 6 and 7 year old children then they never will. When you accept the killing of children then you'll accept pretty much anything.

Gun culture is just ingrained in the American psyche and its hard to ever seeing it reversing, it is also generational, check this from Walmarts website

Shooting Gear
Whether you're a seasoned hunter, a gun hobbyist, a paintball enthusiast or a parent looking to introduce your kids to the responsibilities of gun ownership, you'll find air rifles, storage cabinets, targets and other shooting gear at Walmart.com.https://www.walmart.com/browse/outdoor-sports/shooting/4125_546956_1107532?cat_id=4125_546956_1107532_1111602#searchProductResult

Its just so mind boggling for us to understand. Could you imagine seeing the same statement on Supervalues or Tescos website?

pjohnson

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah Sandy Hook was a watershed moment. If legislators weren't going to act after the massacre of 20 6 and 7 year old children then they never will. When you accept the killing of children then you'll accept pretty much anything.

Gun culture is just ingrained in the American psyche and its hard to ever seeing it reversing, it is also generational, check this from Walmarts website

Some gun lovers claimed Sandy Hook was staged so that the government could take their guns.

VinLieger

Apparently the terrorist in Ohio was killed after 1 minute and still 9 people died so far and 24 were hospitalised.

More guns wont stop this.

El_Duderino 09

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It was said shortly after sandy hook that if the pics of the scene were released then the majority of people would never handle a gun again.

I think they should release those pics, and pics of every mass shooting since, show them on mainstream tv (after 9pm) and use collective guilt to try and stop this madness.

I'm watching a documentary about the Vietnam war. The press had such open . access to the realities of war. Compared to kpw where it's so sanitised. The documentary has dead bodies, wounded civilians and soldiers on both sides. The showed the famous scene of the VC man being shot in hehe head, execution style.

Those images had a real impact on support for the war so they were very careful to ban those images for subsequent wars and control the kind of images that were shown to the public.

I'm absolutely certain the realities of Sandy Hook would force them to think about their dedication to free access to guns.

But ultimately there comes a point when we as non Americans, need to accept that Americans have chooses free access to guns and all,that comes with it.

steddyeddy

tuxy wrote: »

Would this have happened if the state of Texas made it easy to get a concealed carry licence?
It's clear there was not enough people in the Walmart who were armed sufficiently to defend themselves.
Or is it just a case of a handgun having no chance against a rifle?
Open carry could be the way to go.

States that implement conceal and carry see gun violence rise by ~10%. It would be like adding fuel to the fire.

Guy:Incognito

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah Sandy Hook was a watershed moment. If legislators weren't going to act after the massacre of 20 6 and 7 year old children then they never will. When you accept the killing of children then you'll accept pretty much anything.

Gun culture is just ingrained in the American psyche and its hard to ever seeing it reversing, it is also generational, check this from Walmarts website



Its just so mind boggling for us to understand. Could you imagine seeing the same statement on Supervalues or Tescos website?

I'd have no issue with responsible gun use and ownership tbh.

I took my eldest son to a rang when we went to Florida a few years back. Neither of us had shot a gun before. It was a very good experience and we'll go again if we're over. Absolutely nothing wrong with that type of stuff and no reason it couldn't be like that anywhere else. The issue is letting some people have complete access to the guns. Teenagers and young adults are prone to bouts of stupidity and rash actions (as are adults) and as much as I'd trust my son (and my teachings of being responsible) theres no accounting for the one in a million when he could snap at being provoked by bullies or something.

Closely monitored and controlled gun ownership is ok imo and a gun pastime. Letting all and sundry by what they like with minimal or no checks is a different story.

Brian?

tuxy wrote: »

Gun ownership is high in Texas but most people leave them at home making the useless.

How do you know?

ampleforth

_blaaz wrote: »

Reports of 22 dead,18 in a walmart

.....surely its time for countries to issue travel warnings to america at this stage?


Reports of.multiple shooters

Not really. Its a sport over there and so normal that soon it won't be reported any more Sad, but true... they love their guns because somehow they make them free, I suppose.

El_Bee

lets look at why these idiots want to keep their guns

1)to stop criminals
errr.... that's what the police are for??? and the stats overwhelmingly say that criminals will take the gun from the gun owner and shoot them

2)to resist the government in case they become "tyrannical"
yeah, a few fat beer swilling rednecks are going to take on the US military, jesus...

this should have been done after the first mass shooting in colombine, guns have no business being in civilians hands