Mass shooting in el paso

Igotadose

Might've been a third, but thwarted by the cops in Florida:

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/08/copycat-mass-shooter-intrigued-by-el-paso-and-ohio-attack-thwarted-by-police-in-florida/

dodderangler

Tony EH wrote: »

It's not about that, nor has it EVER been about that.

It's tighter regulations that people want.



Absolutely nobody needs an AR15 to do that.

And what difference does it make whether it’s an AR or a bolt action or hand gun❓
Anyone decent enough with a gun can load off decent shots in short amount of time. Blaming the gun is typical of someone that has no clue about guns.

dodderangler

Igotadose wrote: »

Might've been a third, but thwarted by the cops in Florida:

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/08/copycat-mass-shooter-intrigued-by-el-paso-and-ohio-attack-thwarted-by-police-in-florida/

But but Florida is a gun free zone

fryup

Trump will probably say in his statement today....."we should arm shop assistants"

steddyeddy

A video resurfaced of Trump laughing at a joke about shooting migrants. A complete idiot if ever I seen one.

https://www.businessinsider.my/trump-shoot-them-video-resurfacing-after-texas-ohio-mass-shooting-2019-8/

Tony EH

dodderangler wrote: »

And what difference does it make whether it’s an AR or a bolt action or hand gun❓
Anyone decent enough with a gun can load off decent shots in short amount of time. Blaming the gun is typical of someone that has no clue about guns.

A proper hunting rifle will yield much better results than a toy like an AR15. Ask anyone that actually does hunting, genius.

steddyeddy

Tony EH wrote: »

A proper hunting rifle will yield much better results than a toy like an AR15. Ask anyone that actually does hunting, genius.

Well it's simple. There are fewer mass shootings in state with stricter gun laws.

https://www.newsweek.com/us-states-stricter-gun-controls-fewer-mass-shootings-1353508

El_Duderino 09

steddyeddy wrote: »

A video resurfaced of Trump laughing at a joke about shooting migrants. A complete idiot if ever I seen one.

https://www.businessinsider.my/trump-shoot-them-video-resurfacing-after-texas-ohio-mass-shooting-2019-8/

Ah, that's his whole schtick. He turned it into a joke which, if asked, he will probably say he rebuked the person who shouted "shoot them". He never corrects his crowd or asks his supporters to be better. The premise is that if they're supporting him then they're already right. He's a moral coward but that's not a big impediment to winning reelection. He must be at least evens, if not odds on to win reelection.

gandalf

dodderangler wrote: »

And what difference does it make whether it’s an AR or a bolt action or hand gun❓
Anyone decent enough with a gun can load off decent shots in short amount of time. Blaming the gun is typical of someone that has no clue about guns.

The murderer in Ohio had a assault rifle fitted with a 100 round drum magazine. Are you seriously suggesting that he could have killed and injured the same number of people with a 10 round mag or using a bolt action rifle in a minute (that's how long it took the police to gun him down).

The only person who doesn't have a clue is you if you truly believe the weapon or magazine capacity does not have a real impact on the outcome of one of these crimes.

Tony EH

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well it's simple. There are fewer mass shootings in state with stricter gun laws.

https://www.newsweek.com/us-states-stricter-gun-controls-fewer-mass-shootings-1353508

That doesn't surprise me.

Hector Savage

steddyeddy wrote: »

A video resurfaced of Trump laughing at a joke about shooting migrants. A complete idiot if ever I seen one.

https://www.businessinsider.my/trump-shoot-them-video-resurfacing-after-texas-ohio-mass-shooting-2019-8/

disingenous at best to suggest he is laughing at it , like he agrees with it, he's laughing at it cos it's a stupid idea.... but yeah .. ORANGE MAN BAD!!!

walshb

Don’t know about anyone else, but this ‘mental health’ angle the past few years to try and explain, and at times justify some of these evil acts, or just any reckless type behavior gets my goat..

Can’t people just be cu€t€ anymore? Can’t we just have bad people, like we used to?

ILoveYourVibes

Tony EH wrote: »

It's tighter regulations that people want.

If that is true then they need to vote for people who will do that.

Guy:Incognito

Hector Savage wrote: »

disingenous at best to suggest he is laughing at it , like he agrees with it, he's laughing at it cos it's a stupid idea.... but yeah .. ORANGE MAN BAD!!!

Great opportunity at the minute to show up all his detractors and do something positive ............................


But he tweeted "thoughts and prayers" so that's good.

lawlolawl

steddyeddy wrote: »

A video resurfaced of Trump laughing at a joke about shooting migrants. A complete idiot if ever I seen one.

https://www.businessinsider.my/trump-shoot-them-video-resurfacing-after-texas-ohio-mass-shooting-2019-8/

I love that they are claiming that this video "resurfaced" when they are the ones who are drawing attention to it.


But Trump is the one causing division in the USA.

walshb

Hector Savage wrote: »

disingenous at best to suggest he is laughing at it , like he agrees with it, he's laughing at it cos it's a stupid idea.... but yeah .. ORANGE MAN BAD!!!

But you know what, with his track record and rhetoric the past few years, I don’t think he cares all that much here.

Just hope to god he doesn’t come out with some nasty Sh1t on these latest killings..

batgoat

lawlolawl wrote: »

I love that they are claiming that this video "resurfaced" when they are the ones who are drawing attention to it.


But Trump is the one causing division in the USA.

Because his rhetoric actively contributes to this problem, seems fair to reflect on it..

El_Duderino 09

walshb wrote: »

Don’t know about anyone else, but this ‘mental health’ angle the past few years to try and explain, and at times justify some of these evil acts, or just any reckless type behavior gets my goat..

Can’t people just be cu€t€ anymore? Can’t we just have bad people, like we used to?

I challenge you to show a single, solitary example of mental health being used to excuse these evil acts.

My contention is that it's never (or almost never) used to justify, but some people can't tell the difference between wanting to understand what happened , finding an explanation and excusing it.

Saying it's evil is the most boring and least useful end to the discussion. It doesn't help us to figure out what happened so we can try to prevent it happening again.

So, can you show any instances of mental health being used to excuse a mass shooting or similar?

walshb

Did Trump make some utterance today along the mental health angle?

Anyway, it’s the most overused loada’ nonsense in society today, that bad behavior and evil behavior has people trotting out the “oh, sure he/she must have been depressed. It was his/her poor mental health.”

Tony EH

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If that is true then they need to vote for people who will do that.

Unfortunately voting in the US is pretty pointless. It's a one party system, with two slightly different flavours.

walshb

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Saying it's evil is the most boring and least useful end to the discussion. It doesn't help us to figure out what happened so we can try to prevent it happening again.

Are you for real? Some out and out scumbag decided to butcher human beings..

And why is the evil line boring? You don’t think that the world has bad/evil people? Has to be some other reason?

Btw, evil acts and mass killings and killings have been happening since man first roamed the earth. Do you think that maybe, we will never be able to stop it?

banie01

walshb wrote: »

Did Trump make some utterance today along the mental health angle?

Anyway, it’s the most overused loada’ nonsense in society today, that bad behavior and evil behavior has people trotting out the “oh, sure he/she must have been depressed. It was his/her poor mental health.”

Yep he did.
Claimed that both shooters had severe mental health issues.

batgoat

walshb wrote: »

Are you for real? Some out and out scumbag decided to butcher human beings..

And why is the evil line boring? You don’t think that the world has bad/evil people? Has to be some other reason?

Btw, evil acts and mass killings and killings have been happening since man first roamed the earth. Do you think that maybe, we will never be able to stop it?

By going for just "evil", it's failing to work towards combatting it. Eg in this instance the man was a white supremacist. Trump did reduce efforts to combat it and unfortunately, this is a pretty good reason for the US to stop ignoring the rise of it. Something which the current admin will continue to do imho.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/trump-shut-countering-violent-extremism-program/574237/

steddyeddy

lawlolawl wrote: »

I love that they are claiming that this video "resurfaced" when they are the ones who are drawing attention to it.


But Trump is the one causing division in the USA.

I love the way people who defend Trump blame the people pointing out his actions and their consequences rather than hold him responsible for his actions.

Let's step into the real world for a minute. Any president, Republican or Deomcrat will have attention focused on them them after joking about shooting migrants and baiting a crowd following a mass shootings where many migrants died.

Tony EH

walshb wrote: »

Don’t know about anyone else, but this ‘mental health’ angle the past few years to try and explain, and at times justify some of these evil acts, or just any reckless type behavior gets my goat..

Can’t people just be cu€t€ anymore? Can’t we just have bad people, like we used to?

There are "bad people" with mental health problems.

It's arguable that ANYONE who takes a gun into a school, shopping centre, place of work or whatever to deliberately kill as many people as he can has some very serious mental health issues, to say the least, as evidenced by the very fact that they're doing such an action.

And those actions are usually a "suicide by cop" situation, as the sap never really expects to survive his gig.

So yes, the majority of these shootings has something to do with the mental state of the perp. But, I don't think anyone is using that as an excuse to "justify" anything.

Trying to explain something to understand it better, is not trying to justify it.

alchemist33

As someone who works in mental health services, I don't really like the term being used as a political football either. Different people have different takes on the term, from mental illness to personality disorder to indoctrination (radical islam, white extremism, or other), with a catch- all call for better services, which I agree with. I think it's pretty rare for a mass killing like this to be done by someone with a mental illness, whereas many of them may heve been done by someone with certain personality characteristics, shaped by external factors like life events or radicalisation. It's as much a societal issue as a mental health one, and I fear focussing on mental health too much will only add to the stigma people with mental illness already feel.

batgoat

Beto O'Rourke has bluntly stated everything wrong with the current administration..
https://twitter.com/ericbradner/status/1158196171451576321?s=19

El_Duderino 09

walshb wrote: »

Are you for real? Some out and out scumbag decided to butcher human beings..

And why is the evil line boring? You don’t think that the world has bad/evil people? Has to be some other reason?

Btw, evil acts and mass killings and killings have been happening since man first roamed the earth. Do you think that maybe, we will never be able to stop it?

"Evil" is the premise and the conclusion. We learn absolutely nothing from it because it's a nebulous term and it's the end of the discussion.

Now, I asked if you had any sources for mental health being used to explicitly excuse a mass shooting or similar. Do you have any or will you take that part back? Simple "yes"with an example, or "no" question.

Tony EH

alchemist33 wrote: »

As someone who works in mental health services, I don't really like the term being used as a political football either. Different people have different takes on the term, from mental illness to personality disorder to indoctrination (radical islam, white extremism, or other), with a catch- all call for better services, which I agree with. I think it's pretty rare for a mass killing like this to be done by someone with a mental illness, whereas many of them may heve been done by someone with certain personality characteristics, shaped by external factors like life events or radicalisation. It's as much a societal issue as a mental health one

I don't think this is true. Nobody of a sound state of mind would even consider such an action.

alchemist33 wrote: »

and I fear focussing on mental health too much will only add to the stigma people with mental illness already feel.

That fear shouldn't eliminate the obvious.

Nobody is saying these people are just mildly depressed. They have serious sociopathic and psychopathic issues. Nobody of a normal state of mind goes to a school to shoot up kids.

steddyeddy

batgoat wrote: »

Beto O'Rourke has bluntly stated everything wrong with the current administration..
https://twitter.com/ericbradner/status/1158196171451576321?s=19

Brilliant. All the while Trump's been golfing!

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-pictured-at-new-jersey-golf-club-amid-shootings-2019-8?r=US&IR=T