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Mass shooting in el paso

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    #542
    Redneck Reject
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭Redneck Reject


    FatherTed wrote: »
    I had a little incident yesterday at a classic car show here in Connecticut, this one guy passed by wearing a t-shirt with "I Plead the 2nd" and what looked like an AR-15 on it. Less than 24 hours after El Paso. Rolling my eyes I said "WTF man" and he said "F-off dipshyt". I left it at that.

    The whole mental health is just another red herring in this debate much like video games, Marilyn Manson, etc in the past. In fact the video games one is making a come back with House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick blaming them now. The latest is young people don't pray enough.

    It's just another distraction from the obvious problems that the US has with guns. It's quite a shock to be at a Home Depot in an open carry state to see these guys shopping with a pistol attached to their hip. The fact that the pro-run crowd have no interest on proposing ANYTHING leaves to believe this will only get worse. If Newtown could not encourage anything to be done on a federal level I don't know what will.

    If it was up to me I'd just repeal the 2nd amendment these guys hide behind. They have not shown any capacity to engage in any meaningful dialog. I don't even get the whole hunting as a sport thing. You, some big burly man hiding up in some tree with your rifle or whatever versus some deer. That's not an even fight.

    Actually maybe it is a mental illness thing after all. I think those having to need to possess these weapons do have some sort of mental illness going on.

    We never hunted for sport but to supplement our meat intake as we were in a very rural location. Nearest grocery store was 30 miles away.


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    #543
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    8-10 wrote: »
    There's no republicans in Ireland!

    They're the brighter kind ;)


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    #544
    StinkyMunkey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭StinkyMunkey


    FatherTed wrote: »
    I had a little incident yesterday at a classic car show here in Connecticut, this one guy passed by wearing a t-shirt with "I Plead the 2nd" and what looked like an AR-15 on it. Less than 24 hours after El Paso. Rolling my eyes I said "WTF man" and he said "F-off dipshyt". I left it at that.

    The whole mental health is just another red herring in this debate much like video games, Marilyn Manson, etc in the past. In fact the video games one is making a come back with House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick blaming them now. The latest is young people don't pray enough.

    It's just another distraction from the obvious problems that the US has with guns. It's quite a shock to be at a Home Depot in an open carry state to see these guys shopping with a pistol attached to their hip. The fact that the pro-run crowd have no interest on proposing ANYTHING leaves to believe this will only get worse. If Newtown could not encourage anything to be done on a federal level I don't know what will.

    If it was up to me I'd just repeal the 2nd amendment these guys hide behind. They have not shown any capacity to engage in any meaningful dialog. I don't even get the whole hunting as a sport thing. You, some big burly man hiding up in some tree with your rifle or whatever versus some deer. That's not an even fight.

    Actually maybe it is a mental illness thing after all. I think those having to need to possess these weapons do have some sort of mental illness going on.

    Couldn't agree more.

    The Trump administration will deflect with the usual BS, smoke and mirrors. The gun nuts will split hairs and argue what constitutes an assault rifle etc etc etc........ and everyone one else stands around scratching their heads thinking am I missing something - the one common denominator is guns regardless of the reasons behind it.

    Ireland has just held a vote to repeal the eighth. I've wondered countless times what would have if the Americans repealed the second amendment?! Americans seem to view the constitution like some sacred text that cannot be changed.

    If it went to a vote, would the 2nd be changed? I honestly couldn't say if it would be.


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    #545
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    FatherTed wrote: »
    If it was up to me I'd just repeal the 2nd amendment these guys hide behind. They have not shown any capacity to engage in any meaningful dialog. I don't even get the whole hunting as a sport thing. You, some big burly man hiding up in some tree with your rifle or whatever versus some deer. That's not an even fight.

    Actually maybe it is a mental illness thing after all. I think those having to need to possess these weapons do have some sort of mental illness going on.

    Go try repeal the 2nd Amendment and then try take back the 400,000,000 guns in the US and see where that gets you. I'd bet my left nut and my right nut that you'd be into a civil war situation in the blink of an eye.

    Also, your broad brush stroke of describing those who like guns as having a mental illness is a bit insulting to law abiding gun owners, who make up well over 99.99% of the gun owners who don't engage in mass shootings.


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    #546
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    FatherTed wrote: »
    Because the racists here couldn't stand the sight of a black man as President e.g. the first thing McConnell said his sole purpose was to get Obama out of office and the likes of Trump drumming up the whole birther thing.

    Rubbish, it was primarily the left-wing media that racialised everything. This took real hold under Obama's presidency. Now he's not responsible for that as he doesn't control what the media does. Trumps rhetoric is just a right-wing continuation of this.


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    #547
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Also, your broad brush stroke of describing those who like guns as having a mental illness is a bit insulting to law abiding gun owners, who make up well over 99.99% of the gun owners who don't engage in mass shootings.

    Assault rifles like the Ar15 belong in military hands, not in the public's hands to commit mass murder.(they ain't hunting rifles)


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    #548
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Utter nonsense.

    The Republican party platform is against even popular forms of gun control, they're against improving sexual health and education, they're against spending on education, they're against improving state healthcare provision, they're against evidence-based policy on policing or drugs.

    And you can't even argue that they do so on the basis of fiscal conservatism because they give massive tax breaks for the wealthy and balloon the deficit while the Democrats can be expected to work on sane economic policy and work to a budget.
    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Explain to us all then why race relations got so bad from 2008 to 2016.

    Did they? In what sense?
    Were they better or worse than before?
    Are they better or worse than that now?
    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Identity politics flourished under Obama and it's in the liberal democrat voting community were they thrive.

    Who do you think you're kidding with this stuff exactly.

    The entirety of the Republican platform is identity politics. They don't have any actual legitimate policies. They are entirely based on inciting hatred against people who aren't the same identity of the base. That is the essence of Trumpism and Trumpism is now the essence of the Republican platform. No substance. Only anger and racism.

    The contrast between the two is only made clearer when you actually look at how people of either party come to their opinions. Democrats do so largely based on the issues, Republicans do so largely based on who the person speaking is.
    Popularity for bombing Syria, for example, was largely static for Dems, whereas it flip-flopped massively for Republicans depending on whether it was Obama or Trump that was going to do it.

    Similarly, Republicans are more likely to believe climate change is a threat if the source telling them it is is a Republican, while they're less likely to believe it's a threat if it's a Democrat: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1075547019863154?journalCode=scxb

    All political parties suffer from some elements of tribalism, but you expect that there will still be some element of substance to them. The Democratic party is like this.

    The Republican party is not a political party. It's an identitarian cult.


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    #549
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    Rubbish, it was primarily the left-wing media that racialised everything. This took real hold under Obama's presidency. Now he's not responsible for that as he doesn't control what the media does. Trumps rhetoric is just a right-wing continuation of this.

    How come every Trump defender/support starts or ends posts with "rubbish" or nonsense. It's possible to give examples backing up your viewpoints you know.


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    #550
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Assault rifles like the Ar15 belong in military hands, not in the public's hands to commit mass murder.(they ain't hunting rifles)

    an AR-15 is not an Assault rifle as it is only a semi- automatic function. you would need a .223/5.56 calibre to at least kill a fox. love to hear your opinion on a mini 14 ruger.


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    #551
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    How come every Trump defender/support starts or ends posts with "rubbish" or nonsense. It's possible to give examples backing up your viewpoints you know.

    Why is it when you don't give in to the right bad, left good narrative you are labelled a Trump supporter/defender.

    I am neither.


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    #552
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    Why is it when you don't give in to the right bad, left good narrative you are labelled a Trump supporter/defender.

    I am neither.

    My apologies Dan.


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    #553
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Finally. Republican lawmaker criticises his party for enabling white supremacy.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/05/politics/nebraska-lawmaker-white-supremacy-tweets-trnd/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_source=fbCNN&utm_content=2019-08-05T17%3A34%3A26&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR0DqoiefWceX0gBazMcfZkkC5YTe-uNuSjC-ZFPjy_XHegkPaAV5o2Mf6s


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    #554
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    My apologies Dan.

    Tis fine. Your point is noted however I'll try to stop saying either term so willy-nilly.


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    #555
    FatherTed
    Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭FatherTed


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Go try repeal the 2nd Amendment and then try take back the 400,000,000 guns in the US and see where that gets you. I'd bet my left nut and my right nut that you'd be into a civil war situation in the blink of an eye.

    Also, your broad brush stroke of describing those who like guns as having a mental illness is a bit insulting to law abiding gun owners, who make up well over 99.99% of the gun owners who don't engage in mass shootings.

    You're exactly proving my point.


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    #556
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Assault rifles like the Ar15 belong in military hands, not in the public's hands to commit mass murder.(they ain't hunting rifles)

    It's not an assault rifle. Assault rifles are banned here in Ireland and I know several who have them licenced here in Ireland. You can get them on a restricted licence.


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    #557
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    FatherTed wrote: »
    You're exactly proving my point.

    Just because the majority of law abiding gun owners don't want to give up their guns doesn't mean that they are suffering from a mental illness.


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    #558
    FatherTed
    Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭FatherTed


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    Rubbish, it was primarily the left-wing media that racialised everything. This took real hold under Obama's presidency. Now he's not responsible for that as he doesn't control what the media does. Trumps rhetoric is just a right-wing continuation of this.

    So you're saying McConnell never said stuff like that about Obama? And Trump going on and on about Obama and the whole birther thing is not true either?
    Also reread @steddyeddy 's post.


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    #559
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    FatherTed wrote: »
    So you're saying McConnell never said stuff like that about Obama? And Trump going on and on about Obama and the whole birther thing is not true either?
    Also reread @steddyeddy 's post.

    No he did, and Trump from what I remember was very much behind the "is he American" nonsense.

    I said primarily the left wing media however. Terms like "white male privilege" "white male" being used as a derogative, the narrative of the racist police ("Hands up, don't shoot") and organisations like Black lives matter (cheered on by the left) all sprung up under his presidency.


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    #560
    hill16bhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    Rubbish, it was primarily the left-wing media that racialised everything. This took real hold under Obama's presidency. Now he's not responsible for that as he doesn't control what the media does. Trumps rhetoric is just a right-wing continuation of this.

    Did you consider the "birther movement" to be racist?

    Can we assume you didn't?

    Can we also assume you think challenging any racism is, in your words "racialising everything"?

    Did Martin Luther King "racialise everything" when he challenged racism?

    Can we assume your answer to that question would be "yes"?

    I only ask because I can't see how given what you've said, the answer could be anything else.


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    #561
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,803 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    8-10 wrote: »
    There's no republicans in Ireland!

    There are, but that means a very different thing here ;)

    Like guns too tho!


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    #562
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,803 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    It's not an assault rifle. Assault rifles are banned here in Ireland and I know several who have them licenced here in Ireland. You can get them on a restricted licence.

    It's a semi automatic variant of a rifle designed specifically for military use.
    The primary and only real noticeable difference between the AR15 and the M4/M16 platform is the lack of a full auto selector.
    This is not much of an issue in the US where there is no restrictions on the capacity of the actual magazine and up to 100 end drums are available.

    Very different story in Ireland where an AR15 requires a restricted license and a magazine capacity of no greater than 10rounds.
    Further to that, the issuance of a firearms license in Ireland is quite dependant upon background and mental health checks as well as being of temperate character.

    The argument that an AR15 is not an assault rifle is quite misleading.
    Up until 1987 the primary issued UK battle rifle was a semi auto weapon, albeit of a higher calibre.
    The UK believed in aimed fire rather than volume of fire and the inaccuracies inherent in allowing full autom

    A semi automatic weapon with a 50rnd drum can still fire all 50rnds in less than 30 seconds, it is quite capable of sustained fire as rapidly as you can move your trigger finger.
    With a bump stock or with modification it is also easily capable of approximating full auto fire rates.


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    #563
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    banie01 wrote: »
    It's a semi automatic variant of a rifle designed specifically for military use.
    The primary and only real noticeable difference between the AR15 and the M4/M16 platform is the lack of a full auto selector.
    This is not much of an issue in the US where there is no restrictions on the capacity of the actual magazine and up to 100 end drums are available.

    The argument that an AR15 is not an assault rifle is quite misleading.
    Up until 1987 the primary issued UK battle rifle was a semi auto weapon, albeit of a higher calibre.
    The UK believed in aimed fire rather than volume of fire and the inaccuracies inherent in allowing full autom

    A semi automatic weapon with a 50rnd drum can still fire all 50rnds in less than 30 seconds, it is quite capable of sustained fire as rapidly as you can move your trigger finger.
    With a bump stock or with modification it is also easily capable of approximating full auto fire rates.

    There is a massive difference between a semi and a full auto weapon.
    There are difference in the variants of the AR14, the M16 (which is more accurate) and the M-4 which is a carbine with a collapsible stock.

    The British L1A1 is a 7.62 rifle and is much older (mid 1950's). The reason it was phased out was because of the move to NATO 5.56 round (and boy did they regret that change late). The 7.62 round gave greater distance to engage but conflits had moved from open ground to built up urban areas. What you are saying is at odds with what they did and what they purchased afterwards, (L85,L86, FN Minimi). It had a semi automatic option and three round burst because it was difficult to control under automatic fire, plus ammo is heavy to tab.

    There is no responsible shooter shooting at that pace in real life, except in army (where they arent paying for their own ammo or replacing barrels) and dopes on youtube showing off to their friends. Not sure where you reading about guns?


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    #564
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Just because the majority of law abiding gun owners don't want to give up their guns doesn't mean that they are suffering from a mental illness.

    If they engage a civil war over gun restrictions then yes they do have mental issues.


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    #565
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    If they engage a civil war over gun restrictions then yes they do have mental issues.

    Y'know who restricted gun ownership? Hitler, Mao, Stalin ..... guess what happened next?


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    #566
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Y'know who restricted gun ownership? Hitler, Mao, Stalin ..... guess what happened next?

    Didn't most countries restrict gun ownership post world war 2?


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    #567
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Y'know who restricted gun ownership? Hitler, Mao, Stalin ..... guess what happened next?

    Or you could use relevant examples like Australia.


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    #568
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    Didn't most countries restrict gun ownership post world war 2?

    No not most America, Canada, Ireland, Britain..... most countries allow you to own guns of most sorts. There are guns in every Swiss home for defence volunteers and they are given an allowance of ammo to shoot. I understand something similar in Austria. Its only in the last 20 years they have started seriously tightening up on licensing. Its not the licensed holders you need to be worried about.


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    #569
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Or you could use relevant examples like Australia.

    You are saying Hitler, Stalin or Mao weren't "Relevant"?


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    #570
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    No not most America, Canada, Ireland, Britain..... most countries allow you to own guns of most sorts. There are guns in every Swiss home for defence volunteers and they are given an allowance of ammo to shoot. I understand something similar in Austria. Its only in the last 20 years they have started seriously tightening up on licensing. Its not the licensed holders you need to be worried about.

    What makes America different to Switzerland then in your view, where these mass shooting don't happen on the regular?


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    #571
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Its not the licensed holders you need to be worried about.
    If people with licenced firearms in America carrying out mass shootings are not the problem then who should they be worried about?
    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    You are saying Hitler, Stalin or Mao weren't "Relevant"?

    The gun polices of Dictators are not the issue, the issue is that they were dictators.


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