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Mass shooting in el paso

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    #692
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    So you dont know what I am talking about? DSM-V, DISCO, ICD-10? these are not familiar to you. HFA/Aspergers/PDD/ADHD/ASD/ADD/ Willi Prader? you cant distinguish between them? No kid with any of the above would be talking about hearing voices. That is suspicious to me.

    Ok what if I believe you and as you say, it was impossible for him to buy a gun.
    Did he actually carry out the shootings and if so who did buy the gun?


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    #693
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,514 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    tuxy wrote: »
    Dayton, Ohio shooter 9 dead in about 1 minute
    Las Vegas shooter 59 deaths in about 15 minutes

    Both used 100 round drum magazines but the Las Vegas shooter used a bump stock and had the optimal vantage point.

    Do you think there were more than one shooter in Dayton?

    The Vegas shooter was also on the 32nd floor of a hotel several hundred yards away from the festival grounds, and he also additionally wounded (directly that is) 422 people.

    So what’s your thesis here again?


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    #694
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Overheal wrote: »
    The Vegas shooter was also on the 32nd floor of a hotel several hundred yards away from the festival grounds, and he also additionally wounded (directly that is) 422 people.

    So what’s your thesis here again?

    I don't have one I believe the official report.


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    #695
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    Dayton, Ohio shooter 9 dead in about 1 minute
    Las Vegas shooter 59 deaths in about 15 minutes

    Both used 100 round drum magazines but the Las Vegas shooter used a bump stock and had the optimal vantage point.

    Do you think there were more than one shooter in Dayton?

    Not impossible, But give a try on the range sometime. I would struggle to probably to acquire 4 targets in a minute in my prime(no garuntee of a kill everytime), I would be an average shot (imho) but would still make the company team. It aint call of duty on easy setting, y'know? You would also have fatigue from firing at those speeds. This was a guy in his 60's.

    Do you shoot? Have you ever fired an automatic weapon or a semi automatic weapon?


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    #696
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    Ok what if I believe you and as you say, it was impossible for him to buy a gun.
    Did he actually carry out the shootings and if so who did buy the gun?

    I never said it was impossible, but for me or an experienced clerk it should have raised red flags, considering the consequences.


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    #697
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Do you shoot? Have you ever fired an automatic weapon or a semi automatic weapon?

    No, I've only owned a bolt action .22LR in the past

    Have you ever fired a semi-auto with several 100 drum magazines at 22,000 targets?


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    #698
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    Ok what if I believe you and as you say, it was impossible for him to buy a gun.
    Did he actually carry out the shootings and if so who did buy the gun?

    Well, I wasnt there but it just does ring right for me. I have a lot of problems that he had a gun for a year and it didnt bring him any social problems like practicing in his backyard? Annoyed neighbours, Because If I had a toy like that I would be shooting the heck out of it. Even an air rifle in your back yard can easily get you into trouble. imagine what a AR-15 could do? Remember he isnt fully compos mentos. This also conflicts with his ROTC training.


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    #699
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    No, I've only owned a bolt action .22LR in the past

    Have you ever fired a semi-auto with several 100 drum magazines at 22,000 targets?

    You are much more likely to be accurate with a bolt action 22 than a bump action 5.56 at the same distance. Plus you would need much more control for firing a bump stock
    Nope but I have fired a 7.62 GPMG with a 50 round belt at one standing target and missed more than I hit at 300 meters!!! That doesnt make me a bad shot because that is not what the weapon is designated for.


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    #700
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    I believe the official report.

    I dont as an experienced shooter.


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    #701
    Woodsie1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Woodsie1


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    There's a reason why people like David Duke and the MAGA bomber support Trump and it's not because of tax cuts.

    Most likely they disagree with Trump on a lot of other stuff.


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    #702
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Nope but I have fired a 7.62 GPMG with a 50 round belt at one target and missed more than I hit at 300 meters!!!
    That does give you more experiance than I have but wouldn't a GPMG be more of a suppression weapon?
    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    I dont as an experienced shooter.

    What do you believe happened?


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    #703
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    That does give you more experiance than I have but wouldn't a GPMG be more of a suppression weapon?


    What do you believe happened?

    Well if you consider i was in a trench at 300 meters with a Bipod and I was having difficulty in the day in his prime. Imagine how someone was having difficulty at night with a free standing AR-15 with a bump stock. As you get older despite practicing you eye sight diminishes.

    It doesnt matter what I believe, its not going to bring back nearly 60 souls. Its not the big things, its all the little things that make me suspicious. its the numbers in the time given and the profile of the shooter.


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    #704
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    It doesnt matter what I believe, its not going to bring back nearly 60 souls. Its not the big things, its all the little things that make me suspicious. its the numbers in the time given and the profile of the shooter.

    Well it does matter if you are correct.
    Do you think these shootings are connected? I know many are copycats to a degree which is normal human behaviour but is there a wider connection?
    Is it just sloppy reporting or something more sinister?


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    #705
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    Well it does matter if you are correct.
    Do you think these shootings are connected? I know many are copycats to a degree which is normal human behaviour but is there a wider connection?
    Is it just sloppy reporting or something more sinister?

    Stop looking at what is happening and start looking where the final destination is.
    They cannot "collect" the weapons so they are moving toward a central firearms registry. This will increase the cost to the point where people cannot own weapons or very few can own one. Look at all the paper work redtape, infrastructure and security to manage a database like that. Who would control that information? Who could access that information and for what purpose?

    If they were serious about gun control they would be going house to house for illegally held guns by known criminals and non-nationals. You will find the states with the highest gun ownership per capita (mid west and rust bucket or red states) have the lowest crime rates and the highest crime rates are the high densities urban areas under democrat control. If you know the final destination then its easy to work out the route, one way or the other.


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    #706
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,419 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    They cannot "collect" the weapons so they are moving toward a central firearms registry. This will increase the cost to the point where people cannot own weapons or very few can own one. Look at all the paper work redtape, infrastructure and security to manage a database like that. Who would control that information? Who could access that information and for what purpose?

    Who is moving towards a registry? The Canadians tried one, it was a total waste of money and cancelled. The people who paid the cost was the taxpayer, not the gun owner.
    If they were serious about gun control they would be going house to house for illegally held guns by known criminals and non-nationals.

    As far as I know, the 4th Amendment is not suspended for known criminals or non-nationals with the exception of those on parole. That idea is a non-starter.


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    #707
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Who is moving towards a registry? The Canadians tried one, it was a total waste of money and cancelled. The people who paid the cost was the taxpayer, not the gun owner.



    As far as I know, the 4th Amendment is not suspended for known criminals or non-nationals with the exception of those on parole. That idea is a non-starter.

    Yup but I believe "if you want to play you should pay", which is fair. The federal government want it. But They want to tax the hell out of people, through cost living, health care, housing, energy, transport, where you can live and through education.
    Dont believe me? My parents are complaining of many of their younger friends (65-70) with onset of dementia that havent been seen before. We are taxed harder than ever. So many new cancers and childhood cancers, children are leaving home later than ever because they cannot access affordable housing. This madness about renewable energy and how it is cheaper and more envoirmentally friendly. Transport again taxing car ownership into the ground. It is getting impossible to live in the countryside and people are crowded into cities. The next thing that is going to happen is the ETBs are going to taking over creches. Education is mentioned 30 times in the UN Agenda 2030


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    #708
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    As far as I know, the 4th Amendment is not suspended for known criminals or non-nationals with the exception of those on parole. That idea is a non-starter.

    "without probable cause"?
    If you are illegal immigrant then you have broken the law. If you are a criminal with a serious record and time served then you have probable cause.

    "Fourth Amendment. The Fourth Amendment was part of the Bill of Rights that was added to the Constitution on December 15, 1791. It protects people from unlawful searches and seizures. This means that the police can't search you or your house without a warrant or probable cause."


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    #709
    Woodsie1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Woodsie1


    USA was founded on violence....leave them with their guns...money is better spent on providing support and healthcare for the population...sane people dont commit mass murder


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    #710
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Woodsie1 wrote: »
    USA was founded on violence....leave them with their guns...money is better spent on providing support and healthcare for the population...sane people dont commit mass murder

    Every country arrises from conflict.... Ireland 1922, England 1066,
    French republic, American Civil war.... the list continues.


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    #711
    Woodsie1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Woodsie1


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Every country arrises from conflict.... Ireland 1922, England 1066,
    French republic, American Civil war.... the list continues.

    Hey man Im happy for us here in Ireland to have better access to guns,sure people are getting jail for killing goldfish for fcuk sake.

    Im all for USA having guns,but instead of spending fortunes on gun reforms,spend it on healthcare and mental health in particular.

    People kill people...USA need to sort its people out,its easier and cheaper.


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    #712
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,482 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    tuxy wrote: »
    He also used bump stocks which I believe have been banned federally since.

    You can bump fire without a bump stock. It's not a great way of putting rounds on target but in cases like the Vegas shooter accuracy isn't what they're going for.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI86T8RghWY


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    #713
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    What if the majority of people in the U.S want the freedom to buy whatever guns they want even at the expense of some lives but don't want to say it because it sounds cruel?

    Europe has a worse history when it comes to violence but WW2 was our breaking point and it has reduced greatly since then.


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    #714
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    What if the majority of people in the U.S want the freedom to buy whatever guns they want even at the expense of some lives but don't want to say it because it sounds cruel?

    Europe has a worse history when it comes to violence but WW2 was our breaking point and it has reduced greatly since then.

    Its not the legally held gun owners you need to be worried about, Its the illegally held ones by drug dealers, criminals and gang members that you need to be worried about. If you were living over in the states and you heard gun shots near your home, would you call the police and hope for the best or would you reach for your gun? I was waiting 5 hours the last time I had my flat burgled. I think I would rather take my chances with my own weapon.


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    #715
    Woodsie1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Woodsie1


    tuxy wrote: »
    What if the majority of people in the U.S want the freedom to buy whatever guns they want even at the expense of some lives but don't want to say it because it sounds cruel?

    Europe has a worse history when it comes to violence but WW2 was our breaking point and it has reduced greatly since then.

    Europe isnt a country though


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    #716
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Woodsie1 wrote: »
    Hey man Im happy for us here in Ireland to have better access to guns,sure people are getting jail for killing goldfish for fcuk sake.

    Im all for USA having guns,but instead of spending fortunes on gun reforms,spend it on healthcare and mental health in particular.

    People kill people...USA need to sort its people out,its easier and cheaper.

    If I said the same post only with "Africa" I would be getting banned. That right Mod?


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    #717
    Woodsie1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Woodsie1


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    If I said the same post only with "Africa" I would be getting banned. That right Mod?

    Replace USA with Africa?
    Africa is a massive continent,thats way more fcuked up than USA.
    They got guns there too,with feck all rules.
    Plenty of mass shootings there that dont even get reported


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    #718
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,803 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Is this satire or has the penny just not dropped yet?

    That's just Toby...
    One of the great characters of boards dontchya know ;)


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    #719
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,803 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Its not the legally held gun owners you need to be worried about,

    Even disregarding Spree shootings do you have any numbers to back up that assertion?

    The number of people killed by illegally held firearms versus those killed by legally held?


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    #720
    8-10
    Registered Users Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Its not the legally held gun owners you need to be worried about, Its the illegally held ones by drug dealers, criminals and gang members that you need to be worried about. If you were living over in the states and you heard gun shots near your home, would you call the police and hope for the best or would you reach for your gun? I was waiting 5 hours the last time I had my flat burgled. I think I would rather take my chances with my own weapon.

    You should absolutely call the police before anything else


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    #721
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    skooterblue2 wrote: »

    It doesnt matter what I believe, its not going to bring back nearly 60 souls. Its not the big things, its all the little things that make me suspicious. its the numbers in the time given and the profile of the shooter.

    Right he fired over 1100 rounds of 5.56 rounds killed 58 including himself and injured 422 I don't see anything suspicious about it at all ,he definitely wasn't the best shot barely half his shots actually hit people ,
    A proficient shooter could have done a lot more damage being honest ,the AR is a light enough platform with manageable recoil ,100 round mags on full auto more or less makes it even easier ,
    He also had bipods , optics and several guns with foregrips.


    Just to compare Charles Whitman the Texas university shooter in 1966 only managed to kill 14 and injure 30 in over and hour and a half of his rampage
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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