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Should a foetus have the right to life?

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    #302
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    dudara wrote: »
    And yet anecdotally, I know a couple from Ireland who adopted (twice) in the US as they couldn’t get a child through the Irish system.

    This adoption spiel is an utter fantasy.
    Experts estimate there are currently somewhere between one and two million couples waiting to adopt in the US. Every year there are about 1.3 million abortions. Regrettably, only 4% of women with unwanted pregnancies place their children through adoption.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #303
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Experts estimate there are currently somewhere between one and two million couples waiting to adopt in the US. Every year there are about 1.3 million abortions. Regrettably, only 4% of women with unwanted pregnancies place their children through adoption.

    Forcing women who do not want to be pregnant, let alone be mothers, to carry a pregnancy and give birth just to satisfy someone else's desire to adopt is abhorrent. Its like something out of the Handmaids tale.
    Absolutely not something that should be condoned, let alone encouraged. And its useless advice to a woman who can't stay pregnant.

    There are enough unloved & neglected children in this world without intentionally adding to that number.

    If a man was dying next to you, you could not be forced to donate blood against your will. Even though another living human being will die, your bodily autonomy trumps his right to live.
    So why is it any different when a woman is pregnant? Why should she suddenly lose those rights?


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    #304
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    TheRepentent wrote:
    I'd recommend giving Liverpool ago..a lot better than London imho once you get over the accent.

    Yet I was the one called callous.

    I hope this kind of baiting is noticed.


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    #305
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Oh great , lets go back to 1965 and sell the babies to the USA . I remember visiting a mother and baby home in Co Meath and rows and rows of babies ready to be shipped off . The nuns happily excepted a donation for their troubles
    Do you think the majority of those babies grew up to live fruitful and productive lives, or should they all have been killed?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #306
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,467 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Experts estimate there are currently somewhere between one and two million couples waiting to adopt in the US. Every year there are about 1.3 million abortions. Regrettably, only 4% of women with unwanted pregnancies place their children through adoption.

    we dont live in the states. and women in ireland should not be forced to be baby factories for people who want to adopt.


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    #307
    Bigbagofcans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Bigbagofcans


    Ironicname wrote: »
    Yet I was the one called callous.

    I hope this kind of baiting is noticed.

    You were being callous by saying you were glad that he and the ex-wife weren't together anymore.


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    #308
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    we dont live in the states. and women in ireland should not be forced to be baby factories for people who want to adopt.
    Handmaiden’s tale… baby factories? What utter nonsense. How about good and caring people who wish to give an unwanted baby a good and loving life?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #309
    Bigbagofcans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Bigbagofcans


    notobtuse wrote: »
    How about good and caring people who wish to give an unwanted baby a good and loving life? women a choice over their own bodies

    The vote has already been decided in Ireland so you can save your breath.


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    #310
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Handmaiden’s tale… baby factories? What utter nonsense. How about good and caring people who wish to give an unwanted baby a good and loving life?

    An absolutely wonderful concept if the pregnant woman consents, approves and is on board with the idea.

    A repulsive, despicable practice if its forced on a woman who has no choices, just to satisfy someone else's desire to adopt.

    Big difference.

    Taking the choice of a termination away from a woman in an effort to coerce her into an adoption is disgusting. It makes women into baby factories and babies into "things" and commodities that can be bargained for.


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    #311
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Bigbagofcans wrote: »
    The vote has already been decided in Ireland so you can save your breath.
    Yes is has... but the fight to save lives continues.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #312
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,467 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Handmaiden’s tale… baby factories? What utter nonsense. How about good and caring people who wish to give an unwanted baby a good and loving life?

    and what about the woman you would force to carry that baby? where does her opinion fit in?


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    #313
    Bigbagofcans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Bigbagofcans


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    and what about the woman you would force to carry that baby? where does her opinion fit in?

    Anyone who thinks highly of Donald Trump doesn't care too much about women's opinions.


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    #314
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Yes is has... but the fight to save lives continues.

    Worry about your own womb. What goes on in other people's uteruses is none of your concern.


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    #315
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    An absolutely wonderful concept if the pregnant woman consents, approves and is on board with the idea.

    A repulsive, despicable practice if its forced on a woman who has no choices, just to satisfy someone else's desire to adopt.

    Big difference.
    Is there enough being done to encourage women to consider adoption or is abortion the current go-to method?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #316
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Worry about your own womb. What goes on in other people's uteruses is none of your concern.
    The value of life should be everyone's concern.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #317
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Is there enough being done to encourage women to consider adoption or is abortion the current go-to method?

    How insulting. Women know what their options are. They do not need to be encouraged one way or the other. The information for ALL options are available from GP clinics and online.
    Its upto them what they do after that, as it should be.


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    #318
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    notobtuse wrote: »
    The value of life should be everyone's concern.

    This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone agrees with your notions and opinions on the value of life. Nor should they be forced to.

    Afford others the respect you would expect yourself.


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    #319
    Turbohymac
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Turbohymac


    Unfortunately these days it's all down to the womans choice..definitely gone too far and makes unborn in general Worthless..very sad indeed.. unless rape yes the unborn should have rights and be protected..not ejected


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    #320
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,467 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Turbohymac wrote: »
    Unfortunately these days it's all down to the womans choice..definitely gone too far and makes unborn in general Worthless..very sad indeed.. unless rape yes the unborn should have rights and be protected..not ejected

    I know, right. Its absolutely crazy. Letting the person that is affected most make the choice. We really have gone too far.


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    #321
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    How insulting. Women know what their options are. They do not need to be encouraged one way or the other. The information for ALL options are available from GP clinics and online.
    Its upto them what they do after that, as it should be.

    It was a simple question. Here in the US, Planned Parenthood the primary provider of abortions, pushes abortions as the favored method of dealing with an unwanted pregnancy and other options are rarely discussed and often discouraged.. even though they position themselves as something else.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #322
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,467 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    It was a simple question. Here in the US, Planned Parenthood the primary provider of abortions, pushes abortions as the favored method of dealing with an unwanted pregnancy and other options are rarely discussed and often discouraged.. even though they position themselves as something else.

    *looks at domain name*
    we're not in the US.


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    #323
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone agrees with your notions and opinions on the value of life. Nor should they be forced to.

    Afford others the respect you would expect yourself.
    I have been respectful. Have you been respectful to me? Or is it your way or the highway?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #324
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Turbohymac wrote: »
    Unfortunately these days it's all down to the womans choice..definitely gone too far and makes unborn in general Worthless..very sad indeed.. unless rape yes the unborn should have rights and be protected..not ejected

    The current legislation was brought in to protect rape victims, so they would not have to disclose or "prove" their case, avoiding adding any unnecessary trauma to the situation.
    12 weeks was seen to be sufficient time for a woman who had been assaulted to seek a termination if she wished.

    You're a bit of a hypocrite if you are ok with it in cases of rape, but not others.
    Its either a valuable life, or its not. Its either killing, or its not. It isn't any less of a valuable life just because of how the conception occurred.


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    #325
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Yes is has... but the fight to save lives continues.

    Where was this fight before repeal for abortions carried out in England?


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    #326
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    *looks at domain name*
    we're not in the US.
    I must have missed it where the title of the thread included "Ireland Only." Have you noticed a lot of people not of the US have loads of opinions on the US in Current Affairs/IMHO? Just to clarify... what does 'IMHO' stand for here?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #327
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,467 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I must have missed it where the title of the thread included "Ireland Only." Have you noticed a lot of people not of the US have loads of opinions on the US in Current Affairs/IMHO? Just to clarify... what does 'IMHO' stand for here?

    what planned parenthood apparently do in the states has no bearing on the situation in ireland.


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    #328
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    uptherebels wrote: »
    Where was this fight before repeal for abortions carried out in England?
    Hard to believe there wasn't a fight in England before the repeal of abortions.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #329
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I have been respectful. Have you been respectful to me? Or is it your way or the highway?

    Hilarious choice of word.

    I genuinely respect your right to believe whatever you want. I respect your right to believe abortion is wrong, and disgusting, and an awful choice.
    I'm not asking you to approve of it or even respect it.

    I am simply saying that you don't and should NEVER get to inflict that belief on any other person.

    I respect and support your decision to live your life according to your own personal morals and opinions on the matter, yet you don't afford me the same luxury.
    Even though you have no idea of what kind of life I live or my circumstances that lead me to these beliefs.

    My opinion allows everyone the freedom to make their own choice. Your opinion forces everyone to live by the same morals as you do.

    And you then have the gall to infer I'm the one who doesn't have respect?


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    #330
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    what planned parenthood apparently do in the states has no bearing on the situation in ireland.
    It has a bearing on the OP's question of "Should a foetus have the right to life?"

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #331
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Hilarious choice of word.

    I genuinely respect your right to believe whatever you want. I respect your right to believe abortion is wrong, and disgusting, and an awful choice.
    I'm not asking you to approve of it or even respect it.

    I am simply saying that you don't and should NEVER get to inflict that belief on any other person.

    I respect and support your decision to live your life according to your own personal morals and opinions on the matter, yet you don't afford me the same luxury.
    Even though you have no idea of what kind of life I live or my circumstances that lead me to these beliefs.

    My opinion allows everyone the freedom to make their own choice. Your opinion forces everyone to live by the same morals as you do.

    And you then have the gall to infer I'm the one who doesn't have respect?
    I believe an unborn baby is a human being and thusly should be afforded the rights provided to human beings. That you find that opinion disgusting says more about you than it does me.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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