Dublin Bus at it again (women only need apply)

twowheelsonly

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

I think this is great. Young girls need to see that they can drive busses too, be farmers, work on building sites and do similarly traditionally male jobs. Quotas really help with this.

.

No-one ever said that they can't. Ireland had it's first bus drivers 40 years ago. There's been no discrimination against them from anywhere and nothing to stop them applying for the job. They haven't done so in any sort of large numbers though. Likewise for the other jobs you mention.

I don't believe that quotas will solve the problem either. What if enough suitable females don't apply ? Do they take the ones that are not suitable as well or would it be better to take males that are ?
IMO the most suitable person should be employed and that should have nothing to do with gender.

jackofalltrades

What to expect on the day
On the day you will meet some of our current female drivers and inspectors who will share with you their experiences of working with Dublin Bus.
You will get the opportunity to drive a bus with one of our professional driving instructors.
We will give you a tour of our Central Control centre, and we will take you through the recruitment process for bus drivers, and the various benefits of working for Dublin Bus.

So if you don't want the job and you're a woman, you can basically go and get a free Bus driving experience:)

The J Stands for Jay

punisher5112 wrote: »

.....

EV 18 is going around with the full AOA on it.

Eh?

Stephen15

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Because hardly any women are applying. If they can attract more women to apply, that brings the overall number of applicants up.

Well from what I've heard they have a shortage of drivers so they should be targetting more demographics than just women. I honestly don't see why women are not applying anyway even without a female recruitment as there's nothing stopping them applying or doing the job if they are interested.

The J Stands for Jay

Stephen15 wrote: »

Honestly I don't see why it matters

Men aren't going for the jobs there now. They're probably trying the women only days in the hope that the reason for no women applying is that they've never thought of being a bus driver.

Stephen15

McGaggs wrote: »

Eh?

AOA stands for all over ad meaning that the bus the bus is covered is covered in an ad instead of the normal colour scheme in this case for female driver recruitment. Looks like this

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60501971@N08/48474934701/

The J Stands for Jay

jackofalltrades wrote: »

So if you don't want the job and you're a woman, you can basically go and get a free Bus driving experience:)

I wonder if I could get away with selling 'bus driving experiences' that are just €50 a head for me to bring a few hens to Dublin Bus?

The J Stands for Jay

Stephen15 wrote: »

AOA stands for all over ad meaning that the bus the bus is covered is covered in an ad instead of the normal colour scheme in this case for female driver recruitment. Looks like this

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60501971@N08/48474934701/

Thanks.

Yer Da sells Avon

Stephen15 wrote: »

Well from what I've heard they have a shortage of drivers so they should be targetting more demographics than just women. I honestly don't see why women are not applying anyway even without a female recruitment as there's nothing stopping them applying or doing the job if they are interested.

They should be targeting younger people (i.e. people in their early 20s) too. And they should be lobbying the government to drop the age requirement for city bus driving down to 18. With good training, they're an incredibly easy vehicle to drive.

There's nothing physically stopping women from applying, but for whatever reason, they haven't been doing so in large numbers. So they've launched an advertising campaign in the hope of changing that. They're not bumping women up to the top of the queue or anything - they're just trying to encourage more of them to apply. It really isn't a big deal.

Cordell

And who's going to park their buses when they get off at the end of the day?

Stephen15

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

They should be targeting younger people (i.e. people in their early 20s) too. And they should be lobbying the government to drop the age requirement for city bus driving down to 18. With good training, they're an incredibly easy vehicle to drive.

There's nothing physically stopping women from applying, but for whatever reason, they haven't been doing so in large numbers. So they've launched an advertising campaign in the hope of changing that. They're not bumping women up to the top of the queue or anything - they're just trying to encourage more of them to apply. It really isn't a big deal.

I do get that but in my opinion if they want to increase the amount of people applying they should really have a gender neutral recruitment.

As for the age requirement it's already a requirement that you must hold a full licence for two years and the minimum age to get a driving licence is 17 so that would mean the minimum should be 19 not 18 or 21.

thecornflake

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

I think this is great. Young girls need to see that they can drive busses too, be farmers, work on building sites and do similarly traditionally male jobs. Quotas really help with this.

However, I do believe push tactics may also help change minds too. A quota on the number of women allowed mind children, become doctors/nurses (currently overrepresented) and become teachers would be useful to push women towards male dominated roles. We need to push people out of their comfort zone to achieve equality.

If a person (man or woman) needs it implicitly stated in a job advert that they are encouraged to apply based on their sex then they obviously have **** all common sense, imagination or drive and i would be hesitant in employing them.

Do people really need it stated for them? Are they that thick and have no thought of their own to apply without all this ****e?

d8491prj5boyvg

Varta wrote: »

Again, the superiority. I know hairdressers who would be very insulted to be told that their's is a demeaning job. And how on earth is using a cement mixer somehow less demeaning than cutting hair? BTW quite a decent percentage of hairdressers are men.

Jobs like childminding and hair cutting have been looked down upon by a patriarchal society. Women take them because men won't and have first dibs on jobs like plastering and cement mixing. We need to overthrow this patriarchal regime with regimented quotas. Women should be allowed to mix cement and drive diggers

Stephen15

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

Jobs like childminding and hair cutting have been looked down upon by a patriarchal society. Women take them because men won't and have first dibs on jobs like plastering and cement mixing. We need to overthrow this patriarchal regime with regimented quotas. Women should be allowed to mix cement and drive diggers

Well in this context implement quotas then you'll be the one complaining when your bus doesn't show as they couldn't find enough women interested in applying for a job as a bus driver. That's fine if that's what you want but you have to appreciate most rational people couldn't care less if they're bus is driven by a man or woman as long as they get to where they're going in a safe and timely manner.

Sunny Disposition

kowloon wrote: »

The downside is it breeds resentment from those excluded. I think people need to be punished for sexism, racism and so on, but employment needs to progress naturally through meritocracy, or as close to it as we can get.



I know a guy who was given preferential placement as he was a male primary school teacher in a profession with a female majority. It goes both ways. In a perfect world, sex wouldn't come into it.

True, but in a common sense world it also wouldn’t. In this day and age gender quotas are very wrong. Probably be more needed for members of the Traveller community for example, but that would require some action beyond mere virtue signaling.

d8491prj5boyvg

Stephen15 wrote: »

Well in this context implement quotas then you'll be the one complaining when your bus doesn't show as they couldn't find enough women interested in applying for a job as a bus driver. That's fine if that's what you want but you have to appreciate most rational people couldn't care less if they're bus is driven by a man or woman as long as they get to where they're going in a safe and timely manner.

You're missing the point. If women don't want the job they need to look into why. IF its sociological reasons, these need to be addressed. Then women will be more likely to apply. In the meantime let men take up the slack.

Stephen15

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

You're missing the point. If women don't want the job they need to look into why. IF its sociological reasons, these need to be addressed. Then women will be more likely to apply. In the meantime let men take up the slack.

Sure I would think all these career women nowadays would probably think they're too good to drive buses. In all honesty I'd say it's a mix of reasons llng hours for example women with young children might not suit them.

Also perceived to have a lot of anti social behaviour which women may feel more intimated by less so than men but that can be put down to a lack of Garda patrols of of our feral youth. It's generally women who tend to be afraid to use public transport so a job that literally involves spending an entire working day on public transport mightn't appeal to that many women.

Also it's generally men that enjoy driving and are into large vehicles. I would guess that a fair proportion of the people applying have some interest in vehicles whether that be cars, trucks or indeed buses.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

They want more women because they can pay them 70c for every euro a man would earn.

Pauliedragon

Maybe security is the reason women don't reply. A friend drives buses in Cork and some stories are scary. Driving alone with just 1 or 2 drunken rowdy passengers can get scary. I don't know too many women who would feel comfortable with that.

greencap

women cant piss into a fruitjuice bottle while driving down oconnell street.

skooterblue2

greencap wrote: »

women cant piss into a fruitjuice bottle while driving down oconnell street.

depends what you define as a "woman", I am currently identifying as a box of oranges today. I have no idea why my girlfriend is boiling sugar and water in equal proportions

skooterblue2

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Maybe security is the reason women don't reply. A friend drives buses in Cork and some stories are scary. Driving alone with just 1 or 2 drunken rowdy passengers can get scary. I don't know too many women who would feel comfortable with that.

Nobody should have to put up with that crap but it seems to be part of the job.

Varta

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

Jobs like childminding and hair cutting have been looked down upon by a patriarchal society. Women take them because men won't and have first dibs on jobs like plastering and cement mixing. We need to overthrow this patriarchal regime with regimented quotas. Women should be allowed to mix cement and drive diggers

Damn, I fell for it. Must be getting old.

Lux23

dvdman1 wrote: »

Why would you want to have 50/50 m/f bus drivers?
.....window dressing i dont see any push for female general laborours on building sites

Well, you haven't look very far, all the big builders are crying out for women employees.

Elemonator

skooterblue2 wrote: »

How is it going to solve the problem of the lack of men in teaching, childcare and Social care?
Why arent more women applying for construction/Sanitation/physics?

I'm of an age where college is not a distant memory. However, there were men entering those professions while I was there. I know women who are into electrical apprenticeships and some who are mechanics.

It's not perfect, but I didn't come here to debate the philosophy of it, only state the fact that it exists. Meritocracy is still in existence, its a long time since I looked at those particular provisions of the TFEU but from what I remember if one is still much more qualified the job will go to them. It was only to distinguish between similarly qualified candidates. In the case of teaching, childcare and social care, I would imagine it would go in favour of male candidates seeing as they are the "underrepresented" sex in those industries.

dvdman1

Lux23 wrote: »

dvdman1 wrote: »

Why would you want to have 50/50 m/f bus drivers?
.....window dressing i dont see any push for female general laborours on building sites

Well, you haven't look very far, all the big builders are crying out for women employees.

"General laborours" is what i said NOT women employees in builing industry like engineers
I see zero just like rubbish truck employees zero again.

optogirl

Hector Savage wrote: »

What about the lack of female brick layers ?
or bin collectors ?
Or is it only for good jobs ?

Also, do you think maybe in general - men and women have different interests so in certain areas you will always have more men/women.

Equality of opportunity - yes, equality of outcome is a terrible idea - as it means the best people won't get the job in order for them to tweak the stats.

There are drives to get more women into construction - traditionally these jobs weren't even considered for girls and certainly not one girl I was in school with was ever given any help or direction from school/guidance councillor to go for construction jobs or apprenticeships - which would have really suited so many of us. Nurse or teacher was suggested for most of us. Now they have women with jobs in construction going into some schools (forward thinking ones) for career days etc to show the many varied & different things one can do on a construction site, from brick laying, plastering to QS jobs.

The whole 'I don't see too many women collecting bins' is a hackneyed and useless point. Female refuse workers do exist, I see a woman on a bin van every week in D7. Yes, still predominantly male but that's what these kinds of drives are trying to address. Gender imbalance in these roles, same as primary teaching & nursing for men, wont change until girls see women doing it and know that they wont be laughed at or jeered by their male colleagues for thinking they belong in such jobs.

quokula

It's funny seeing all the "what about brick layers" etc replies, when the go to simplistic reply for any attempt to address the balance in any other industry before used to be "well I don't see them looking for female bus drivers"

dvdman1

There are plenty of roles women find it difficult to do, not that they cant try. Wheel barrowing heavy loads all day on a building site may take more journeys, consistently lifting cavity blocks into place. These can all be done by women but its harder.

physical standards had to be lowered in the defence forces to help women join.

https://www.military.ie/en/careers/defence-forces-fitness-testing/

Stephen15

dvdman1 wrote: »

There are plenty of roles women find it difficult to do, not that they cant try. Wheel barrowing heavy loads all day on a building site may take more journeys, consistently lifting cavity blocks into place. These can all be done by women but its harder.

physical standards had to be lowered in the defence forces to help women join.

https://www.military.ie/en/careers/defence-forces-fitness-testing/

I don't see why women would find driving a bus difficult. It is not a physically difficult job no more so than working in an office there is no physical strength required.

Eric Cartman

Stephen15 wrote: »

dvdman1 wrote: »

There are plenty of roles women find it difficult to do, not that they cant try. Wheel barrowing heavy loads all day on a building site may take more journeys, consistently lifting cavity blocks into place. These can all be done by women but its harder.

physical standards had to be lowered in the defence forces to help women join.

https://www.military.ie/en/careers/defence-forces-fitness-testing/

I don't see why women would find driving a bus difficult. It is not a physically difficult job no more so than working in an office there is no physical strength required.

Spacial awareness is a big requirement. How many women do you know that can and will willingly parallel park a car successfully ?

And before anyone starts im not saying all wen are worse drivers and its impossoble for them to do it but in general the standard of driving from women is far poorer than men.

Stephen15

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Spacial awareness is a big requirement. How many women do you know that can and will willingly parallel park a car successfully ?

And before anyone starts im not saying all wen are worse drivers and its impossoble for them to do it but in general the standard of driving from women is far poorer than men.

If the standard from a woman candiate is high then she should be given the job likewise a male candiate.

up for anything

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Spacial awareness is a big requirement. How many women do you know that can and will willingly parallel park a car successfully ?

And before anyone starts im not saying all wen are worse drivers and its impossoble for them to do it but in general the standard of driving from women is far poorer than men.

Hahahaha! That's why we used to get cheaper insurance because women are shittier drivers on the whole and cause so many more accidents but the insurance industry wanted to make allowances for us because... poor women. :pac::pac:

May I see your peer reviewed research that bears out your assertion that 'in general the standard of driving from women is far poorer than men."? Or has the Incel Irritation Weekly not published it yet?

dvdman1

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't see why women would find driving a bus difficult. It is not a physically difficult job no more so than working in an office there is no physical strength required.

Try saying that when your on the last bus pulling a junkie out the door, ive seen many abus man doing the right thing because the cops wont come.

Stephen15

dvdman1 wrote: »

Try saying that when your on the last bus pulling a junkie out the door, ive seen many abus man doing the right thing because the cops wont come.

They are supposed to remain in their cab with the assault screen securely up

dvdman1

Stephen15 wrote: »

They are supposed to remain in their cab with the assault screen securely up

Thats the perfect world..ive seen bus men preventing a lot of trouble and there totally on there own..no they dont hide behind the screen... they do the right thing

punisher5112

Stephen15 wrote: »

They are supposed to remain in their cab with the assault screen securely up

Not much use when they get in through side window or in the SG put their hand in at ticket machine which I've had including a woman grabbing the steering wheel.

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

Not much use when they get in through side window or in the SG put their hand in at ticket machine which I've had including a woman grabbing the steering wheel.

So maybe then the best way of attracting more female candiates would be to improve security measures including making sure the cab is completely sealed instead of this silly campaign and tougher sentences for scum.

Stephen15

dvdman1 wrote: »

Thats the perfect world..ive seen bus men preventing a lot of trouble and there totally on there own..no they dont hide behind the screen... they do the right thing

Unfortunately the right thing is often what ends up with the worse result for the victim.

Eric Cartman

Stephen15 wrote: »

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Spacial awareness is a big requirement. How many women do you know that can and will willingly parallel park a car successfully ?

And before anyone starts im not saying all wen are worse drivers and its impossoble for them to do it but in general the standard of driving from women is far poorer than men.

If the standard from a woman candiate is high then she should be given the job likewise a male candiate.

Agreed , my point was more in general that there are likely less women bus drivers as its not as suitable to general abilities, like how theres less male soecial needs assistants or carers etc..

Eric Cartman

up for anything wrote: »

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Spacial awareness is a big requirement. How many women do you know that can and will willingly parallel park a car successfully ?

And before anyone starts im not saying all wen are worse drivers and its impossoble for them to do it but in general the standard of driving from women is far poorer than men.

Hahahaha! That's why we used to get cheaper insurance because women are shittier drivers on the whole and cause so many more accidents but the insurance industry wanted to make allowances for us because... poor women. :pac::pac:

May I see your peer reviewed research that bears out your assertion that 'in general the standard of driving from women is far poorer than men."? Or has the Incel Irritation Weekly not published it yet?

Womens insurance was cheaper because they drive statistically way less miles than men do, are more risk averse than men are and drive lower value cars than men in general. Insurance is all about stereotypes.

Men drive 75% of every driven mile in the country on any given day, in hazardous weather conditions or at night the vast majority of women just do not drive at all.

Per mile covered men are much safer drivers.

dvdman1

Stephen15 wrote: »

Unfortunately the right thing is often what ends up with the worse result for the victim.

"Call the cops" isn't a solution and its like that screen a hiding place.
My mate drove nitelinks in Dublin and he didnt care what his job policy and procedure said.. he refused to look at scum interfering with an old person. He used force to remove them and was very glad he did...prevented cops, assault, courts and a lot of hassle

Mr. teddywinkles

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

Women can inherit farms too you know.

For building site work, we have trollies, winches and other aids. I even get patella booster spring knee brace ads in my YouTube feed nowadays. I'm sure similar aids are being developed for arm muscles. Physical strength is no excuse for persisting workplace inequalities.

Obviously never worked on one then

Stephen15

dvdman1 wrote: »

"Call the cops" isn't a solution and its like that screen a hiding place.
My mate drove nitelinks in Dublin and he didnt care what his job policy and procedure said.. he refused to look at scum interfering with an old person. He used force to remove them and was very glad he did...prevented cops, assault, courts and a lot of hassle

That's well and good but if he had of ended up getting assaulted by the said scumbag he wouldn't have got any compensation from Dublin Bus as they'd argue he wasn't following the procedure and would be left to fend for himself.
It should a given that a bus driver is not a victim of physical or verbal abuse their job is to drive a bus, take fares and help passengers. Women should not feel too intimated to become a bus driver.

dublinman1990

I don't see any problem with this recruitment campaign tbf. I think it's great. At any time that I see a female bus driver on my route; they are there to do a professional job to their passengers & they do it very well or equivalent to their male bus driver colleagues.

punisher5112

As I'm sure some of you are aware I've been that driver and have stepped in to help people when it's been serious enough.

I've been attacked in the job screen up or down to be honest for me makes no difference.

I do use it now as I found I'd be sick less from people sneezing and coughing on me.

I was told to get out and check a car that the driver said I'd hit him, I did so and the driver tried to headbutt me while I was looking and all I asked was could he show me the damage, his wife then swung for me and they then jumped in the car in which he reversed at me before screeching up the road...

He actually went into the garage to put in a complaint and wanted money for his car there and then....

The Guards had adequate footage to show him putting his hands on me and trying to hit me with the car and their answer was there isn't enough evidence....

nkl12xtw5goz70

optogirl wrote: »

Now they have women with jobs in construction going into some schools (forward thinking ones) for career days etc to show the many varied & different things one can do on a construction site, from brick laying, plastering to QS jobs.

I wouldn't consider that very "forward-looking," for the simple reason that several companies (such as the New York-based Construction Robotics) have developed robot bricklayers that can outperform humans in terms of speed and accuracy. It seems silly to encourage any schoolchild (boy or girl) to become a bricklayer at a time when many such jobs will soon be replaced by automation.

Same logic goes for bus drivers. With tech companies pouring billions into developing self-driving vehicles, it doesn't seem like the smartest career choice for any young person.

Stephen15

Marcos Cold Oxygen wrote: »

Same logic goes for bus drivers. With tech companies pouring billions into developing self-driving vehicles, it doesn't seem like the smartest career choice for any young person.

City buses will likely be the last vehicles to be automated. Honestly can't see them coming in anytime soon in this country and if they do come which my guesstimate would be 50-60 years there will likely be generous redundancy packages for bus drivers like the redundancies that council binmen got when the bin service was privatised.

I'd say there'd be many careers that will fall victim to automation before bus drivers. We don't even have electric double decker buses and hybrids are only starting to come in here in Dublin so I can't see automated buses coming in anytime soon.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Stephen15 wrote: »

City buses will likely be the last vehicles to be automated. Honestly can't see them coming in anytime soon in this country and if they do come which my guesstimate would be 50-60 years there will likely be generous redundancy packages for bus drivers like the redundancies that council binmen got when the bin service was privatised.

Given that driverless technology is already being rolled out in cities around the world, I don't buy into your guesstimate that it won't affect Dublin Bus for another half-century.

People really need to process the huge changes that will come about over the next couple of decades due to rapid advances in automation and artificial intelligence. Someone who is in secondary school today really shouldn't be considering bus driving as a viable career. They're likely to be unemployable before they turn 40.

Stephen15

Marcos Cold Oxygen wrote: »

Given that driverless technology is already being rolled out in cities around the world, I don't buy into your guesstimate that it won't affect Dublin Bus for another half-century.

People really need to process the huge changes that will come about over the next couple of decades due to rapid advances in automation and artificial intelligence. Someone who is in secondary school today really shouldn't be considering bus driving as a viable career. They're likely to be unemployable before they turn 40.

But it won't only be bus drivers that will be affected thought there was a whole line of jobs that are supposed to be automated. Thought I heard in years to come that whole swarthes of people will become unemployed due to automation.

All the trials so far have been fairly small scale and the vehicles generally still have a steering wheel and a driver that's ready to take over. Also can't see vehicles that run on petrol/diesel have the ability to become autonomous and there are lots of issues with electric vehciles can't see autonomous vehciles become the norm before EVs become the norm.

Also the bus industry in the UK and Ireland has traditionally been a conservative with a preference to stay with what has been tried and tested and has been generally slow to adapt to new technologies. This can be seen today with DB and GAIs outdated wayfarer ticket machines.