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Cooperation with property viewing

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    #32
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    CiboC wrote: »
    Our landlord wants to sell, we have been in discussion with them for some time and have made what we consider to be 2 reasonable offers to buy the property.

    They have declined our most recent offer and have decided to put the house on the market.

    They have said there are a number of parties who wish to view, and hope that we will cooperate with that.

    Now here is the thing - Our lease does not mention anything about this eventuality, and so does not specify any obligation to cooperate.

    We have lived there for over 8 years and have not yet received any notice to quit.

    I really feel that I should be able to tell them that if they don't want to accept our offer that's their choice, but they can wait until I'm gone before I'll allow anyone to view my home. I have all my personal possessions there (the property was unfurnished when we moved in), my wife and kids have their possessions there, and I don't see why I should allow anyone to rummage around our home if we don't want them to and are not obliged to under the lease.

    Would I be within my rights to refuse?

    I think you'd have every right to refuse. Good luck.


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    #33
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    questionmark? wrote: »
    Considering he would have to give you 224 days notice as you are there eight years I would suggest the landlord is wasting his time even shown people around at the moment even if you did consent.

    Yes you would be entitled to refuse but if you want a good reference and deposit back then work with the landlord.

    He'd have no right to even consider not returning the deposit here.


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    #34
    wildwillow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭wildwillow


    The landlord is not entitled to any leeway on viewings, particularly as he hasn't given you notice. He is hedging his bets, If he sells you get notice, though I can't see a buyer wait out the statutory notice period.


    I completed on a house in 10 weeks last summer but I had all planning and certs etc. organised before putting it on the market. Buyer was anxious to close and could have completed in 6 weeks if his solicitor wasn't a nuisance.

    Sales have slowed a lot this summer as people are anxious about Brexit and prices are stagnant.

    Do n othing until you are served the proper notice.


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    #35
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    wildwillow wrote: »
    The landlord is not entitled to any leeway on viewings, particularly as he hasn't given you notice. He is hedging his bets, If he sells you get notice, though I can't see a buyer wait out the statutory notice period.


    I completed on a house in 10 weeks last summer but I had all planning and certs etc. organised before putting it on the market. Buyer was anxious to close and could have completed in 6 weeks if his solicitor wasn't a nuisance.

    Sales have slowed a lot this summer as people are anxious about Brexit and prices are stagnant.

    Do n othing until you are served the proper notice.

    Its wise for all parties involved to keep all options open as Davo pointed out. By doing what the OP is doing, he is limiting is own options in the future.

    I would have no problem waiting 7 months to get a place i want. In the mean time solicitors can do what they do and i might have to wait an extra month or two at the end. If its the right house, one or two months extra is not big imo.


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    #36
    piplip87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭piplip87


    Well got extremely lucky last year. Our rented house was up for sale and the landlord asked about viewings. We where in the same boat as you regards personal items in the house, so we met with the landlord and estate agent.

    We agreed that:

    The viewing would take place but on certain days. We agreed that every second Saturday from 11am until 4 pm would be viewing time.

    Luckily we got chatting to the eventual buyer as the Estate Agent was late. Turns out it was a guy who wanted to buy somewhere to retire too but rent it until then.

    We are still in the house and will be until we can save to buy ourselves.

    It pays to be nice, you never know it could be buy to rent....


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    #37
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    2 years ago I had no issue with facilitating my landlady with viewings at weekends, as we had a great relationship over the 7 years I rented the place.
    The only issue I had was when the agent who turned up one Saturday asked would we make sure our old dog, who could not really walk at this stage, was out of the house as some viewers might not like him.
    My response was, the dog has far more rights than you or anyone else viewing the house, so if you want him out I suggest you buy it yourself, cos hes staying here during the viewings otherwise, and if you dont like it tough.
    I even told the landlady about it, to which she laughed.


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    #38
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    terrydel wrote: »
    2 years ago I had no issue with facilitating my landlady with viewings at weekends, as we had a great relationship over the 7 years I rented the place.
    The only issue I had was when the agent who turned up one Saturday asked would we make sure our old dog, who could not really walk at this stage, was out of the house as some viewers might not like him.
    My response was, the dog has far more rights than you or anyone else viewing the house, so if you want him out I suggest you buy it yourself, cos hes staying here during the viewings otherwise, and if you dont like it tough.
    I even told the landlady about it, to which she laughed.

    What rights does a dog have?


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    #39
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    Dav010 wrote: »
    What rights does a dog have?

    More than any estate agent entering any house I'm renting.


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    #40
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    limnam wrote: »
    Sounds like he's looking to buy.
    It sounds like he hasn't bought a house yet. So unless they can get a house before they have to move out, they'll need to live somewhere after their lease runs out.
    Browney7 wrote: »
    overhold
    When people get evicted, they have a few bin bags of stuff. As the the property was unfurnished when the OP moved in, the LL could toss EVERYTHING out. The OP would then need to suddenly rent storage, rent a van with no notice to move the stuff, and if it's raining everything gets ruined.


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    #41
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    terrydel wrote: »
    More than any estate agent entering any house I'm renting.

    Lol. You still haven’t explained what rights the dog have. Tenants have rights under the 2004 residential act for example :). I know what you meant but it’s still funny to hear.


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    #42
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    terrydel wrote: »
    More than any estate agent entering any house I'm renting.

    Just checking, you are posting about a canine?


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    #43
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Just checking, you are posting about a canine?

    Yes, is that a problem with you?


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    #44
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    terrydel wrote: »
    Yes, is that a problem with you?

    Honest to God Del, you’ll make my day if you tell me the dog’s name is Trigger.


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    #45
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Honest to God Del, you’ll make my day if you tell me the dog’s name is Trigger.

    Sorry to break your heart, but its not.


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    #46
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,171 ✭✭✭limnam


    the_syco wrote: »
    It sounds like he hasn't bought a house yet. So unless they can get a house before they have to move out, they'll need to live somewhere after their lease runs out.

    So what? He's not doing anything wrong by not having viewings.


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    #47
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    limnam wrote: »
    So what? He's not doing anything wrong by not having viewings.

    He’s not unless he has a contract that specifically details viewings but there are a number of factors/ implications if the op makes it awkward for the ll.


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    #48
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,171 ✭✭✭limnam


    Fol20 wrote: »
    He’s not unless he has a contract that specifically details viewings but there are a number of factors/ implications if the op makes it awkward for the ll.

    As I mentioned, assuming there isn't

    Potential threats from a landlord are not a reason to give up your "enjoyment of your home.


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    #49
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    limnam wrote: »
    As I mentioned, assuming there isn't

    Potential threats from a landlord are not a reason to give up your "enjoyment of your home.

    Helping yourself to retain/get a new roof over your head if you haven’t bought by the end of the notice period is though.


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    #50
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,171 ✭✭✭limnam


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Helping yourself to retain/get a new roof over your head if you haven’t bought by the end of the notice period is though.

    Going around in circles.

    As they're not doing anything wrong.

    There's no reason for the landlord not supply a reference.


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    #51
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    limnam wrote: »
    Going around in circles.

    As they're not doing anything wrong.

    There's no reason for the landlord not supply a reference.

    There is also no reason/obligation for a ll to supply a reference. Its called good will here and if i dont receive good will, and unless i am under law obligated to provide it why should i do the same back to you.


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    #52
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    limnam wrote: »
    As I mentioned, assuming there isn't

    Potential threats from a landlord are not a reason to give up your "enjoyment of your home.

    The ll is not threatening them. These are just facts that if a ll doesnt meet me half way, i will certainly not go out of my way to help them either.


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    #53
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,171 ✭✭✭limnam


    Fol20 wrote: »
    There is also no reason/obligation for a ll to supply a reference. Its called good will here and if i dont receive good will, and unless i am under law obligated to provide it why should i do the same back to you.

    Asking a tenant to keep uplifting for viewings is a lot more than good will.

    If a landlord wants to sell a home

    Give notice.

    Put house up for sale.

    No one has to rely on good will. Everyone gets what they need.


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    #54
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    limnam wrote: »
    Going around in circles.

    As they're not doing anything wrong.

    There's no reason for the landlord not supply a reference.

    Yes we are going around in circles. I don’t agree with viewings while the tenant is in situ, the op should say no to this.

    The LL should also stick to only what is required, valid notice should be served, op leaves at the end of notice, LL has no reason to give a reference, extend the tenancy nor reduce the notice to accommodate the op.

    Everybody knows where they stand, no one does any more than you they are obligated to do, LL then can hold viewings, op moves into the new home they own, or they take their chances with the hundreds/thousands also looking for rental accommodation. Happy days.


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    #55
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,171 ✭✭✭limnam


    Fol20 wrote: »
    The ll is not threatening them. These are just facts that if a ll doesnt meet me half way, i will certainly not go out of my way to help them either.

    God forbid the landlord acts professionally and tenant adhere's to contract.


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    #56
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    limnam wrote: »
    God forbid the landlord acts professionally and tenant adhere's to contract.

    Please explain how this isnt professional. As you pointed out, both parties can adhere to the contract however if the contract doesnt state the ll has to provide a reference or allow a tenant leave earlier than the valid notice period then they wont allow any lea-way. That is all im saying.

    Im agree with you that they are not under obligation to allow viewings, most would but thats a persons prerogative. Just dont expect a ll to be flexible if your not flexible with them.


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    #57
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,171 ✭✭✭limnam


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Please explain how this isnt professional. As you pointed out, both parties can adhere to the contract however if the contract doesnt state the ll has to provide a reference or allow a tenant leave earlier than the valid notice period then they wont allow any lea-way. That is all im saying.

    Im agree with you that they are not under obligation to allow viewings, most would but thats a persons prerogative. Just dont expect a ll to be flexible if your not flexible with them.

    So if ll's are not obliged to give references regardless. Other LL's shouldn't expect them.

    A professional landlord should not be putting their tenant out by having viewings during thier tenancy.

    So if the land lord acts professionally, tenant adheres to contract. There's no reason to withhold a reference for a tenant not doing something they shouldn't be asked to so in the first place.

    Can't believe this is even up for debate.


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    #58
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    limnam wrote: »
    So if ll's are not obliged to give references regardless. Other LL's shouldn't expect them.

    A professional landlord should not be putting their tenant out by having viewings during thier tenancy.
    .

    I agree with the second part, but LL though not obliged to give them, they do for the most part require them. A tenant who cannot provide a good one is at an enormous disadvantage.


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    #59
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    limnam wrote: »
    So if ll's are not obliged to give references regardless. Other LL's shouldn't expect them.

    A professional landlord should not be putting their tenant out by having viewings during thier tenancy.

    So if the land lord acts professionally, tenant adheres to contract. There's no reason to withhold a reference for a tenant not doing something they shouldn't be asked to so in the first place.

    Can't believe this is even up for debate.

    You seem to point towards contracts when it suits you and to disregard when it doesnt. Being professional is abiding by the law and contract you signed, nowhere does it say a ll is obligated to provide a reference so stop mixing them up please.


    Providing a reference is not part of of the process of you renting. It requires admin work from the ll side to provide you with a reference, i know of some ll that charge for this service so if a ll wanted to be awkward similar to a tenant being awkward with viewings, then he is entitled to this.

    I agree that the tenant isnt obliged to allow viewings. Most allow it out of mutual respect for each other coupled with both potentially benefiting out of it in different ways.

    As you said, this is going around in circles. All we are saying is that if one party follows the exact rule of the land without any adjustment for practicality, dont expect the other to offer anything in return either.


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    #60
    Murt10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Murt10


    the_syco wrote: »
    When looking for a new place to rent, the new LL may wonder why you can't provide a LL reference for these 8 years. Because if the LL can't show the house, they have no reason to give you a good reference.


    Quick question, but what's to stop OP from getting a mate to write him an excellent reference with mates phone no, confirming that Clt has been an absolutely model tenant in every way?

    Not saying Clt wasn't a model tenant, but how is the new landlord to know who he is dealing with?


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    #61
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,171 ✭✭✭limnam


    Murt10 wrote: »
    Quick question, but what's to stop OP from getting a mate to write him an excellent reference with mates phone no, confirming that Clt has been an absolutely model tenant in every way?

    Not saying Clt wasn't a model tenant, but how is the new landlord to know who he is dealing with?


    There's loads of ways around it tbh.

    But one shouldn't have to. Especially when they're not getting one as punishment for something they shouldn't have been asked to do in the first place.


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