RTB has contacted me

Marcusm

The_Conductor wrote: »

A 30 day notice contract- is far from unusual in such instances (however, it is normally recommended not to give a licensee a contract, full stop, as in general, by giving them a contract, you are inferring rights on them that they are not necessarily entitled to).

As for the RTB and Revenue sharing information- yep, they do- however, not in the case of licensees- who do not come under the remit of the RTB. A licensee situation would be the obligation of the primary dweller in a property to notify to the Revenue Commissioners via an annual tax return. Regardless of whether or not they hit the 14k limit- they are legally obligated to report the income in full, and liable for tax on it in its entirety at their marginal rate of taxation (if they exceed 14k). Once they keep under the 14k- no tax, not even USC or PRSI, is due.

In this instance- as it is a licensee situation (regardless of whether or not the gross income comes under the 14k, or not)- any notice obligation to the Revenue Commissioners- rests with the OP- and not the RTB.

You seem intent on murkying the waters- by exploring avenues that simply are not pertinent to the OP's query. Please stop doing so. If you have good relevant information- directly answering the OP's query- feel free to impart it- otherwise- please stop trying to derail the OP's thread.

Your tax analysis is very flawed and should not be muddied by bolded Moderator comments in the same post. It might be taken as having some basis in law.

A person is not required to follow the rent a room relief scheme.

In this case, the Sch D Case V computation in respect if the property would consist of income in respect of the rent from the sub tenant less any relevant expenses which would principally consist of the appropriate portion of the rent payable to the ultimate landlord. Provided there is no surplus/excess, there is no Sch D Case V income and thus no assessable income in the hands of the OP. The OP could be in receipt if €14k per month not to mind €14k per annum provided the OP is not making any rental profit there is no assessable income.

This whole tax discussion is a distraction from the OP’s actual questions.

Julianna Thundering Mind

Julianna Thundering Mind wrote: »

Licensees can move out at a moments notice, in the same way that you can evict within the time it takes for her to pack her bags. There's no legal basis to hold part of the rent & I doubt the contract would stand up. Rent a room relief also does not apply as you're renting out more than one room. There's a definite tax liability.

You haven’t a clue what you are talking about, stop talking rubbish giving the op incorrect advice.

The rent a room relief applies regardless of how many rooms are rented so that’s totally incorrect along with most of the rest of what you are saying.

retropessir

Marcusm wrote: »

Your tax analysis is very flawed and should not be muddied by bolded Moderator comments in the same post. It might be taken as having some basis in law.

A person is not required to follow the rent a room relief scheme.

In this case, the Sch D Case V computation in respect if the property would consist of income in respect of the rent from the sub tenant less any relevant expenses which would principally consist of the appropriate portion of the rent payable to the ultimate landlord. Provided there is no surplus/excess, there is no Sch D Case V income and thus no assessable income in the hands of the OP. The OP could be in receipt if €14k per month not to mind €14k per annum provided the OP is not making any rental profit there is no assessable income.

This whole tax discussion is a distraction from the OP’s actual questions.

Thank you both however for addressing this. FYI I am not making any additional income from this, the rent outlined by landlord is simply divided amongst the other rooms, to which I collect and transfer to the landlord.

terrydel

retropessir wrote: »

Thank you both however for addressing this. FYI I am not making any additional income from this, the rent outlined by landlord is simply divided amongst the other rooms, to which I collect and transfer to the landlord.

You said in a previous post that in 2018 you made in excess of 14k, that's at odds with what you are saying here. Please clarify.

Graham

Mod Note

Thread reopened.

Some off topic posts have been deleted.

Thanks for the patience folks.

retropessir

terrydel wrote: »

You said in a previous post that in 2018 you made in excess of 14k, that's at odds with what you are saying here. Please clarify.

Would you calm down.

Two different theories coming at me to which I have interpreted two different scenarios and therefore the same facts but two different answers.

In the case that what I make as a profit is what must be under the 14k threshold, it is therefore zero and I simply stated I collect the rent and give to landlord. I do not make 14k profit off these people, to which my recent post says I do not make a profit and therefore am not exceeding a 14k threshold as it is effectively zero as some have stated. I understood this as not exceeding a threshold, and answered as such.

The other theory I have been given is that regardless what goes to landlord, this must be declared and is what is calculated and taxed on. Therefore in 2018 I would have collected more than 14k in rent, which none of it stayed in my pocket. I understood earlier was exceeding a threshold, and answered as such.

terrydel

retropessir wrote: »

Would you calm down.

Two different theories coming at me to which I have interpreted two different scenarios and therefore the same facts but two different answers.

In the case that what I make as a profit is what must be under the 14k threshold, it is therefore zero and I simply stated I collect the rent and give to landlord. I do not make 14k profit off these people, to which my recent post says I do not make a profit and therefore am not exceeding a 14k threshold as it is effectively zero as some have stated. I understood this as not exceeding a threshold, and answered as such.

The other theory I have been given is that regardless what goes to landlord, this must be declared and is what is calculated and taxed on. Therefore in 2018 I would have collected more than 14k in rent, which none of it stayed in my pocket. I understood earlier was exceeding a threshold, and answered as such.

You clearly stated that you exceeded 14k, nothing to do with theories, are you saying that you seriously believed that money you were merely collecting and passing on was going to be a tax liability for you? I don't believe anyone would think they were eligible for tax on money they were simply collecting.
And I'm perfectly calm thanks.

Caranica

The rent a room threshold is for income not profit! You receive this money, the fact that you pass it on is neither here nor there.

It would be different if you were the landlord's agent and simply collecting the rent but by taking in licensees in this way you are personally liable for tax compliance.

retropessir

terrydel wrote: »

You clearly stated that you exceeded 14k, nothing to do with theories, are you saying that you seriously believed that money you were merely collecting and passing on was going to be a tax liability for you? I don't believe anyone would think they were eligible for tax on money they were simply collecting.
And I'm perfectly calm thanks.

I’m here to enquire about my situation, as I was clearly ignorant on the ins and outs about this regarding the RTB, which then led to me realizing about the tax situation.

I am not going to sit here and say I knew about it when I did not. However someone posted about it, I tried to assess my situation from that standpoint and answered as such. I’m clearly not a tax advisor.

However on this entire thread you seem to be here to just rip everything I and others are posting to absolute shreds. Nitpicking and picking fights with myself and others. You can see your way out unless you have anything helpful to add rather than just trying to play Sherlock Holmes. Clearly you have your own personal turmoil going on, seeing as you are so defensive for absolutely no reason.

Graham

Mod Note

Terrydell, quit the inquisitionstyle posts. Your posts are coming across as unnecessarily aggressive.

retropessir if you have an issue with a post, report it. Do not respond on thread.

retropessir

Caranica wrote: »

The rent a room threshold is for income not profit! You receive this money, the fact that you pass it on is neither here nor there.

It would be different if you were the landlord's agent and simply collecting the rent but by taking in licensees in this way you are personally liable for tax compliance.

Thanks for clarifying. That was the part I was misinterpreting. Declaring and paying tax on what I keep (nothing) versus the total sum transferred to the landlord. I’ll just go to a tax advisor and give all the info and have them sort it for me. Cheers.

noodler

OP, do you pay and rent yourself or are you do all your licencees contribute the full month's rent and you just transfer to LL and pay nothing yourself?

retropessir

noodler wrote: »

OP, do you pay and rent yourself or are you do all your licencees contribute the full month's rent and you just transfer to LL and pay nothing yourself?

I am the only name on the lease for the house, I have my damage deposit on it. I am responsible for the entire months rent if no one is occupying here other than myself or if there are empty rooms (varies month to month). In that scenario I pay the difference on what I receive and the rent.

Normally though thee house has X number rooms and I divide the rent amongst the other rooms, less mine.

I pay have furnished (upgraded much of the existing furnishing) in the house.

terrydel

retropessir wrote: »

I’m here to enquire about my situation, as I was clearly ignorant on the ins and outs about this regarding the RTB, which then led to me realizing about the tax situation.

I am not going to sit here and say I knew about it when I did not. However someone posted about it, I tried to assess my situation from that standpoint and answered as such. I’m clearly not a tax advisor.

However on this entire thread you seem to be here to just rip everything I and others are posting to absolute shreds. Nitpicking and picking fights with myself and others. You can see your way out unless you have anything helpful to add rather than just trying to play Sherlock Holmes. Clearly you have your own personal turmoil going on, seeing as you are so defensive for absolutely no reason.

It's a discussion forum, discussion is two way in my view, if you post something people are entitled to respond and also to question it, as long as they are civil and respectful, which I absolutely have been.
I have not ripped anything posted by anyone to shreds and take great offence to that suggestion, read thru all of my posts here and they'll back me up, they are simply replies, opinions, and discussion of the issues raised. I've offended or been rude to nobody.
And then you seek to pass judgement on my state of mind? Who's the one being offensive now?
Imho your story doesn't add up, you've contradicted yourself a number of times and I've pointed that out, reply or don't, it doesn't bother me. But don't accuse me of ripping people to shreds when I've done nothing of the sort, thanks very much.
Some advice, your landlord is breaking the law, you are fully aware of this so if rtb question your situation at that house, tell the truth, you are a tenant there and he's the landlord.

terrydel

Graham wrote: »

Mod Note

Terrydell, quit the inquisitionstyle posts. Your posts are coming across as unnecessarily aggressive.

retropessir if you have an issue with a post, report it. Do not respond on thread.

They are not aggressive at all, I'm asking questions, it's a discussion forum, discussion is two way.

The_Conductor

terrydel wrote: »

They are not aggressive at all, I'm asking questions, it's a discussion forum, discussion is two way.

The OP asked a question.
If you're not in a position to assist him/her- please do not interrogate him/her.
Regardless of whether you are remaining civil, or not, interrogating someone is not a 'discussion'- its an interrogation. You are skating on thin ice.

terrydel

The_Conductor wrote: »

The OP asked a question.
If you're not in a position to assist him/her- please do not interrogate him/her.
Regardless of whether you are remaining civil, or not, interrogating someone is not a 'discussion'- its an interrogation. You are skating on thin ice.

I completely disagree with that assertion.

mrslancaster

Caranica wrote: »

The rent a room threshold is for income not profit! You receive this money, the fact that you pass it on is neither here nor there.

It would be different if you were the landlord's agent and simply collecting the rent but by taking in licensees in this way you are personally liable for tax compliance.

that's what I understood - the €14k is the max total amount received in a year and there's no allowances for any expenses whether that's payments to the owner or utility suppliers etc. but open to correction on this.

info here
https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/land-and-property/rent-a-room-relief/what-conditions-must-be-met.aspx

Also does OP have to inform the landlord about any other person living in the property? If they don't is that a breach of tenant obligations?

Graham

mrslancaster wrote: »

Also does OP have to inform the landlord about any other person living in the property?

It's stated in the opening post.

mrslancaster

Graham wrote: »

It's stated in the opening post.

missed that - just re-read OP

Marcusm

Caranica wrote: »

The rent a room threshold is for income not profit! You receive this money, the fact that you pass it on is neither here nor there.

It would be different if you were the landlord's agent and simply collecting the rent but by taking in licensees in this way you are personally liable for tax compliance.

This is all so wrong:

1. The rent a room relief applies to total receipts not just those constituting income. Ie all contributions to household bills, meals provided must be included.

2. If the OP was acting as the landlord’s agent they would be into a whole world of additional tax compliance responsibilities and not fewer as implied by your post.

3. The OP has no additional personal tax compliance responsibilities from this arrangement unless net profit is more than 5k (stated to be nil) or gross receipts were more than 30k (which seems unlikely from what has been described). Irrespective, these additional responsibilities could only be imposed by Revenue. They do not apply automatically.

Again, it is highly disappointing to see such poorly advised posts being thanked so effusively when they are baseless, a distraction from the point at issue and tantamount to bullying the OP (as they are so self evidently groundless).

Caranica

I used income to describe monies received ie incoming funds.

Of course the agent situation has further responsibilities but it is a formal role with more straightforward requirements.

Re your point 3, from Citizens Information "
You will not qualify for the relief if:
Your gross income from rent and related services is over €14,000. In this case, Revenue will treat your rental income minus allowable expenses as part of your total income for tax purposes and should be included in your tax return."

If the OP receives a cent over 14k they are not entitled to the rent a room relief but has tax liability on the full sum less allowable deductions.

Marcusm

Caranica wrote: »

I used income to describe monies received ie incoming funds.

Grand.

Caranica wrote: »

Of course the agent situation has further responsibilities but it is a formal role with more straightforward requirements.

Wrong; if you are in receipt of income in a representative capacity (including as an agent, trustee or otherwise), you have much more complex, not more straightforward requirements. Including a mandatory SEPARATE income tax filing.

Caranica wrote: »

Re your point 3, from Citizens Information "
You will not qualify for the relief if:
Your gross income from rent and related services is over €14,000. In this case, Revenue will treat your rental income minus allowable expenses as part of your total income for tax purposes and should be included in your tax return."

If the OP receives a cent over 14k they are not entitled to the rent a room relief but has tax liability on the full sum less allowable deductions.

Where the intermediate landlord does not make a profit, it would be moronic for him/her to seek to claim rent-a-room relief as they simply take on additionally reporting requirements. Reciting information which you obtain from Citizen's Info without understanding the wider context of tax rules is hardly a source for this and misleads the OP.

Again, I say this is an entire distraction from the questions which the OP has put. I continue to reply only to refute the misleading seafóid you continue to post.

Graham

Mod Note

folks, while general discussion around legalities and taxation are fine. No specific advice to be given to individuals.

As we cannot verify the credentials of posters, please link to authoritative sources for your information/interpretations.

As there are posts above that don't do either of these things, posts may be edited/removed.

davindub

Marcusm wrote: »

Wrong; if you are in receipt of income in a representative capacity (including as an agent, trustee or otherwise), you have much more complex, not more straightforward requirements. Including a mandatory SEPARATE income tax filing.

Where the intermediate landlord does not make a profit, it would be moronic for him/her to seek to claim rent-a-room relief as they simply take on additionally reporting requirements. Reciting information which you obtain from Citizen's Info without understanding the wider context of tax rules is hardly a source for this and misleads the OP.

Income outside of the threshold still needs to be declared, typically on form 12 (even if nil). Rent a room relief can also be claimed on form 12.

I cannot see where in the OP's situation, they would be required to declare either, using the term agent is probably appropriate from a legal point of view, but not a revenue point of view, they simply pass the money collected to the landlord.

Best thing to do OP is to ring the Revenue helpline if you need anything clarified.

Graham

Mod Note

on that note I think the OP needs to take professional advice.

Thread closed.