Nora Quoirin. [Read mod note in post #1 - updated 14/08]

retro:electro

Knine wrote: »

I saw it mentioned several times about why she was brought to the jungle etc plus respite mentioned! Here in Ireland anyway there is little to no respite, there is also not a big queue of people wanting to mind a child with special needs.

Imagine also that their child has feelings just like anyone else & might not be too happy about being left behind.

Here in my house the children are treated equally rather then by ability!

According to another poster they should have left her with a neighbour :rolleyes: Then if something happened while they were away, this same poster would be shaming them for excluding her while they enjoyed themselves on a family holiday.

FrancieBrady

retro:electro wrote: »

According to another poster they should have left her with a neighbour :rolleyes: Then if something happened while they were away, this same poster would be shaming them for excluding her while they enjoyed themselves on a family holiday.

I can only assume that that moral high ground stuff is coming from people who are not parents or who are guilt ridden parents. They lack empathy for some curious reason.
When you are a parent you know that you cannot ever be a perfect one. The majority of us do our best to be though.
A little bit of empathy and you can feel the adrenaline surge when your child cannot be found, or something you did or didn't do puts them in peril.

We know, as parents (with a horror that doesn't bear thinking about) that we could have been dealing with what parents like the Quoirin's are dealing with now - that seconds, minutes or just plain old luck saved the day for us.

Rather than criticise them when I come to this or other missing child stories, I thank my lucky stars first and engage my empathy.

CelticSeaShip

Aceso wrote: »

I've read that she is non verbal so I suppose that may have played a part in the hypothetical kidnappers being able to take her so easily.

If an employee/employees of the hotel is involved, is it plausible that they would have been able to access information on Nóra before the family even arrived?
I would imagine that the family may have provided certain information when booking. I'm not sure what Nóra's needs are but, maybe Nóra is on medication that needs to be kept in a fridge, or uses a medical device that requires a particular power source, or, maybe the family asked for a specific type of accommodation (ground floor) due to Nóra's condition? If an employee/employees of the hotel is involved, maybe they knew to target this particular family because of some information provided by the family ahead of time.
Obviously this is all very hypothetical and I am not trying to be insensitive to the family or friends, just discussing some possibilities.

I thought about this as well. If an abductor is responsible for Noras disappearance, maybe they weren't specifically targeting the girl with special needs. Maybe any child would have done. The resort would have 2 adults, 3 children for information as a minimum.

If an abductor is responsible the only thing I can think of is that it's someone who works in the resort or someone with connections to a worker in the resort. The only thing that makes sense to me is that a window was left slightly ajar. Or maybe a window might have looked closed but it wasn't locked so that it would be easy to open from the outside.

Was the window investigated for damage?

CelticSeaShip

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0812/1068308-nora-gardai-scotland-yard-search/



ah jaysus, this doesn't look good at all.

That doesn't look good at all, at all. Coupled with sniffer dogs losing her scent about 100m away.

BarryD2

What I find mildly disquieting about this case, is the degree of coverage on RTE here. Practically been the 1st story up most days for the past week, on radio anyway. This morning again, we had the reporter from the jungle with birdsong and hooting in the background. You'd feel very sorry for the family, but at this stage the repetitive media coverage seems as much to do with the slow summer news cycle and prurient entertainment as much as actual news.

Kidchameleon

chicorytip wrote: »

I hate this term "special needs". It's PC bull****. If a child has Downs Syndrome or Spina Bifida then refer to that condition by it's name. It is not insulting to do so. Nora Quoirin, I believe, suffers from a developmental disorder of the brain which has inhibited her physical, intellectual and emotional development.

Nora LITERALLY has special needs. Its only a term, no need to be offended by it. Her dad used that very term in one of the appeals. You need to lighten up, it is only words that describe a situation accurately.

Stevieluvsye

This is a serious question i have but if she was taken by a Paedophile, would such a person have empathy if the said "victim" had special needs?

Do they care? Can they show empathy? I'd like to think for how evil they are they would have the decency to release the child home. Are paedos, like for like? Who knows.

khalessi

Sadly after 8 days missing i doubt it because if someone has her, they would realise by now and yet she hasnt been found

N365

Going through the scenario in my head.

A. Nora is abducted from her room. - highly unlikely, abductors would disturb family members. No evidence of abduction. No forced entry. window was opened from inside.

B. Nora leaves her bed and exits through the downstairs window. - How far can she travel with little clothing through dense jungle? Her family have stated that she would not go anywhere on her own.

C Another scenario.

The family have travelled with Nora to Asia in the past. I wonder if this is their first time in this resort complex?

Knine

Aceso wrote: »

I've read that she is non verbal so I suppose that may have played a part in the hypothetical kidnappers being able to take her so easily.

If an employee/employees of the hotel is involved, is it plausible that they would have been able to access information on Nóra before the family even arrived?
I would imagine that the family may have provided certain information when booking. I'm not sure what Nóra's needs are but, maybe Nóra is on medication that needs to be kept in a fridge, or uses a medical device that requires a particular power source, or, maybe the family asked for a specific type of accommodation (ground floor) due to Nóra's condition? If an employee/employees of the hotel is involved, maybe they knew to target this particular family because of some information provided by the family ahead of time.
Obviously this is all very hypothetical and I am not trying to be insensitive to the family or friends, just discussing some possibilities.

Sadly this is a good point. I recently booked something for ourselves & you do indeed be mentioning extra requirements when booking.

ThunderCat

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

This is a serious question i have but if she was taken by a Paedophile, would such a person have empathy if the said "victim" had special needs?

Do they care? Can they show empathy? I'd like to think for how evil they are they would have the decency to release the child home. Are paedos, like for like? Who knows.

My own opinion is they wouldn't care. They are kidnapping a child for their own sexual gratification after all so morals couldn't possibly exist there. I hate even typing such words. Hoping she is found alive, as unlikely as that now is. The poor family.

Stevieluvsye

ThunderCat wrote: »

My own opinion is they wouldn't care. They are kidnapping a child for their own sexual gratification after all so morals couldn't possibly exist there. I hate even typing such words. Hoping she is found alive, as unlikely as that now is. The poor family.

I don't think parents had anything to do with it and i don't think she left to go rambling through the jungle at night so i am assuming she has been adbucted unfortunately.

I think i read somewhere recently that south east asia was a real hotspot for child abduction and active paedophile rings

N365

Absolutely no evidence of an abduction

khalessi

Just read in Daily Fail cadaver dogs are now being brought in

very sad

stop animal cruelty

N365 wrote: »

Going through the scenario in my head.

A. Nora is abducted from her room. - highly unlikely, abductors would disturb family members. No evidence of abduction. No forced entry. window was opened from inside.

B. Nora leaves her bed and exits through the downstairs window. - How far can she travel with little clothing through dense jungle? Her family have stated that she would not go anywhere on her own.

C Another scenario.

The family have travelled with Nora to Asia in the past. I wonder if this is their first time in this resort complex?

How do we know for certain there's no evidence? Has the room being thoroughly examined by forensic scientists and specialist police? In countries like this, corruption in the police would be high I'd imagine, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some connection to it.

The poor family, what scary and horrible place the world can be.

N365

stop animal cruelty wrote: »

How do we know for certain there's no evidence? Has the room being thoroughly examined by forensic scientists and specialist police? In countries like this, corruption in the police would be high I'd imagine, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some connection to it.

The poor family, what scary and horrible place the world can be.

I'm saying there is no evidence because there is no evidence at this time

Snow Garden

N365 wrote: »

Absolutely no evidence of an abduction

No evidence made public. In my experience, Malaysians are paranoid about their country getting bad press. Especially since MH370.
I think the odds are that Nora was abducted.

stop animal cruelty

N365 wrote: »

stop animal cruelty wrote: »

How do we know for certain there's no evidence? Has the room being thoroughly examined by forensic scientists and specialist police? In countries like this, corruption in the police would be high I'd imagine, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some connection to it.

The poor family, what scary and horrible place the world can be.

I'm saying there is no evidence because there is no evidence at this time

Apologies, didn't read that correctly.

chicorytip

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

This is a serious question i have but if she was taken by a Paedophile, would such a person have empathy if the said "victim" had special needs?

Do they care? Can they show empathy? I'd like to think for how evil they are they would have thiie decency to release the child home. Are paedos, like for like? Who knows.

No, paedophiles tend to lack empathy and don't believe their behaviour is wrong. If Nora was abducted by child predators she would be abused and then discarded/killed.

Beasty

dudara wrote: »

@kidchameleon - that’s enough. There are a lot of unknowns here. Please be mindful of the family & friends involved.

dudara

Kidchameleon, do not post in this thread again

Any questions, PM me - do not respond to this warning in-thread

N365

Snow Garden wrote: »

No evidence made public. In my experience, Malaysians are paranoid about their country getting bad press. Especially since MH370.
I think the odds are that Nora was abducted.

I respect your opinion but disagree with it. In terms of an abduction I can’t see how it could have possibly been done without leaving some form of evidence. There is no evidence.

Stevieluvsye

N365 wrote: »

I respect your opinion but disagree with it. In terms of an abduction I can’t see how it could have possibly been done without leaving some form of evidence. There is no evidence.

That's not accurate.

If you are in the business of abducting kids i'm sure you do background checks on what you need to do to avoid traceable evidence

N365

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

That's not accurate.

If you are in the business of abducting kids i'm sure you do background checks on what you need to do to avoid traceable evidence

Do you reckon this was a pre arranged abduction?

Stevieluvsye

N365 wrote: »

Do you reckon this was a pre arranged abduction?

From the limited info i have seen/read, the likeliest outcome imo is that the child was abducted.

And yes, i don't think it was done in the heat of the moment but somebody who had specific info on the family

Hope i am wrong however

ldy4mxonucwsq6

What must have been the trip of a lifetime has turned into a waking nightmare for her family.

Looks like a beautiful setting for a holiday, but from the photos I've seen online, access to get in or out of the accommodation wouldn't be difficult.

I think the window/door being opened etc is irrelevant as the entire ground floor deck from the living room area sits open out straight into the jungle with just what looks like a balcony barrier.

I would imagine the low rail and steps around the loft bedroom and spiral staircase would make it hard to take someone (especially with mobility difficulties) without anyone noticing. But jet lag/long flight, they would probably all be exhausted.

I read that there's a €10,000 reward up now for information, so hopefully if someone knows something (if it was an abduction) they give up the information, anything to help get this girl back with her family.

I think her family know best that she wouldn't have voluntarily wandered out by herself but it can be hard to say for definite when you factor in tiredness and unfamiliar surroundings.

I just hope she is found soon.

LennieB

This is such a sad case, hopefully she will be found soon.

I think myself that she could have got up for some reason and wandered outside, then possibly abducted or picked up by someone who saw her, I know it would be opportunistic. It doesn't bear thinking about but the only thing I could think of, otherwise wandered and had accident but I think she would have been found by now.

Just thinking about her 2 siblings as well - they must be distraught - such a nightmare for all involved.

Strazdas

LennieB wrote: »

This is such a sad case, hopefully she will be found soon.

I think myself that she could have got up for some reason and wandered outside, then possibly abducted or picked up by someone who saw her, I know it would be opportunistic. It doesn't bear thinking about but the only thing I could think of, otherwise wandered and had accident but I think she would have been found by now.

Just thinking about her 2 siblings as well - they must be distraught - such a nightmare for all involved.

That one is plausible I guess. The idea of someone breaking into the cottage to specifically abduct her seems extremely unlikely.

iamwhoiam

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/our-hearts-are-breaking-family-of-missing-nora-quoirin-offer-10k-reward-for-information-943359.html

This is heartbreaking , they have offer a reward to help find Nóra .
She is so precious to them we can only hope it helps

McMurphy

Been going over this again and again in my mind, it's truly baffling, surely if she was abducted from her room, how did the other kids not hear what I would assume would have been quite a commotion?

I read today that she was barefoot when she left the residence, either by force or after going on a stroll having possibly been confused by her strange surroundings. I would not imagine the jungle would be a pleasurable place to walk barefooted, and so can't imagine she'd have got very far on this scenario either.

I'm not an overly religious person, but I've said a quiet prayer anyway for the poor girl and her family.

I'm afraid to say it, but any chance of this having any kind of a happy ending seems to be further away than ever, but there's always hope.

chicorytip

I posted earlier about the possibility of her being attacked and taken by a wild animal had she strayed into the jungle. I am surprised this has not been mentioned in the investigation to date. Malaysia has a wide variety of wildcats and large apes generally so I presume this particular region is populated by at least some of those and they would be capable of attacking and killing a human and secreting a body.