Nora Quoirin. [Read mod note in post #1 - updated 14/08]

FrancieBrady

odyssey06 wrote: »

And did that help? I think nothing would make it more likely that the local police would close ranks.

I remember there were complaints about the police being patronising in the Portugal case.

I would imagine every police force would think it was the best, so they would have to be carefully managed to avoid things like that.

Spon Farmer

Portsalon wrote: »

I read in one of the papers that the guy we have sent over works in the GS's International Liaison Unit and his normal job involves liaising with Interpol. So I would assume that he has decent experience of dealing with other countries' police forces.

Thank you.

Spon Farmer

odyssey06 wrote: »

And did that help? I think nothing would make it more likely that the local police would close ranks.

I'm asking did they do that.

And I'm asking is any media outlet claiming the foreign cops are unhappy with the locals?

Strazdas

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I'm asking did they do that.

And I'm asking is any media outlet claiming the foreign cops are unhappy with the locals?

Not to my knowledge. I've read no such story in the Irish or British press in the last few days.

Spon Farmer

N365 wrote: »

Think about how difficult it would be to enter the house (key needed) go upstairs lift her up without waking her( presumably she would cry out if she was woken) carry her downstairs and carry her through the window (for some reason) ps there was no sign of entry through the window)

I didn't say it wouldn't be difficult just that it is possible.

If Nóra left the cottage herself then she did so without making noise enough to disturb the family, in the dark in unfamiliar surroundings. Or someone got her to come to the window without making a sound.

None of it makes sense and yet the child disappeared with the family hearing anything.

Spon Farmer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I remember there were complaints about the police being patronising in the Portugal case.

I would imagine every police force would think it was the best, so they would have to be carefully managed to avoid things like that.

The fact is that people online calling the local cops incompetent or corrupt have no basis to do so.

splinter65

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I'm asking did they do that.

And I'm asking is any media outlet claiming the foreign cops are unhappy with the locals?

Try to imagine that an English child of 6 on holidays in Ireland goes missing from your local shopping centre.
There huge hoopla about the whole thing, the papers and media both here and in the UK are full of it, all Garda leave is cancelled, the dog units, the helicopter plus hundreds of specialist volunteers are out combing the area leaving no stone unturned in the search, day and night.
After 4 days 2 detective sargents and two constables from Essex Police Force show up at the search HQ demanding to be briefed and arguing with the Garda superintendent.
It just doesn’t happen.
The offense would be massive and couldn’t be overcome.
It’s unthinkable.
A Garda liaison officer has gone to Malaysia to be with the family.
He will have courteously asked to be introduced to the policeman in charge of the investigation and will have offered whatever assistance he could but that is it.
There will be absolutely no hint of any critiscm and a respectful distance kept at all times.

N365

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I didn't say it wouldn't be difficult just that it is possible.

If Nóra left the cottage herself then she did so without making noise enough to disturb the family, in the dark in unfamiliar surroundings. Or someone got her to come to the window without making a sound.

None of it makes sense and yet the child disappeared with the family hearing anything.

There’s a big difference in her being abducted from her bedroom and her just leaving by herself. As for someone calling her to the window , how do you imagine that would have happened? The abductor threw pebbles at the window? Whistled?

Spon Farmer

splinter65 wrote: »

Try to imagine that an English child of 6 on holidays in Ireland goes missing from your local shopping centre.
There huge hoopla about the whole thing, the papers and media both here and in the UK are full of it, all Garda leave is cancelled, the dog units, the helicopter plus hundreds of specialist volunteers are out combing the area leaving no stone unturned in the search, day and night.
After 4 days 2 detective sargents and two constables from Essex Police Force show up at the search HQ demanding to be briefed and arguing with the Garda superintendent.
It just doesn’t happen.
The offense would be massive and couldn’t be overcome.
It’s unthinkable.
A Garda liaison officer has gone to Malaysia to be with the family.
He will have courteously asked to be introduced to the policeman in charge of the investigation and will have offered whatever assistance he could but that is it.
There will be absolutely no hint of any critiscm and a respectful distance kept at all times.

I was asking is there any reports in the media suggesting that the foreign cops are unhappy with the local police.

This is the only way that people online who are saying the local police botched the search, are incompetent or corrupt can make the claim.

There is no hint of that so therefore people shouldn't be saying it.

Spon Farmer

N365 wrote: »

There’s a big difference in her being abducted from her bedroom and her just leaving by herself. As for someone calling her to the window , how do you imagine that would have happened? The abductor threw pebbles at the window? Whistled?

You keep inserting snotty comments into your responses to people here. Can you please communicate like an adult?

I never said there wasn't a "big difference", I said it was possible that someone could have entered the cottage without being heard just as it was possible that Nóra left without being heard. I said it was possible that some someone got her to come the window.

The family were not disturbed by anything during the night. They say Nóra would not have left by herself. It makes no sense that someone came in and took her. It makes no sense that she walked out. It makes no sense she was called to the window. Yet she is gone.

Haven't children have been abducted from their homes before without the rest of the family being disturbed? Or at least without the parents hearing anything? I know there was a case years ago in the US where a girl was taken from her bed - the sister woke up but was too scared to move and the kidnapper left the house with the girl without the parents waking up.

khalessi

The only problem with the idea of Nora leaving is she had mobility issues and generally had to be helped apparently and all it takes is a whiff of chloroform to further subdue a sleeping person

holliehobbie

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Ireland, the UK and France have police officers there giving assistance.

I'm hoping it is more than just support for the family. Can they have their own investigation or can they only work with the local police?

I highly doubt any of these police officers have experience of working in dense tropical forest or of tracking and using sniffer dogs and that kind of thing. So it would be support for the family.

Spon Farmer

holliehobbie wrote: »

I highly doubt any of these police officers have experience of working in dense tropical forest or of tracking and using sniffer dogs and that kind of thing. So it would be support for the family.

No obviously they don't have jungle experience unless they were previously in the military or something, but Nora being the jungle is just one possibility. Sniffer dogs is a fairly common part of all police worldwide so it is not impossible that the officers could know that job, but the is not the point.

Scotland Yard and the French police have surely sent people with experience in regards to missing persons, kidnapping, etc. as well as being experienced in assisting families and dealing with foreign police officers in various cultures. I can't remember the wording exactly but a couple of articles said the Malaysian police confirmed that foreign police officers were there helping and it didn't say they just helping the family. To the best of my recollection the Garda is confirmed as being a liaison between the family and the local police. Not much point in the UK and France send three or four other cops to do the same.

Spon Farmer

khalessi wrote: »

The only problem with the idea of Nora leaving is she had mobility issues and generally had to be helped apparently and all it takes is a whiff of chloroform to further subdue a sleeping person

I haven't seen much in regards to Nóra's special needs and mention of a name for her condition.

What are her mobility issues? Does she think and behave like a much younger child or is something else?

RebelButtMunch

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I haven't seen much in regards to Nóra's special needs and mention of a name for her condition.

What are her mobility issues? Does she think and behave like a much younger child or is something else?

It's named a couple of times in this thread.

splinter65

khalessi wrote: »

The only problem with the idea of Nora leaving is she had mobility issues and generally had to be helped apparently and all it takes is a whiff of chloroform to further subdue a sleeping person

Terrible risky business even so, carrying the dead weight of a young adult down a flight of stairs which I believe is one of those twisty ones and getting her out without one of the other 4 occupants even getting up to go to the toilet.
Very daring.
Two accomplices I suppose could do it.

khalessi

Her condition has been mentioned here previously and in the papers (Indo this evening), its holoprosencephaly, a condition that is considered rare and where the hemispheres of the brain fail to completely separate. It has been stated in the papers that Nora had mobility issues

Spon Farmer

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

It's named a couple of times in this thread.

I hadn't heard it named on the news and it wasn't named in anything I had read so I assumed the family hadn't specified it or something.

I see it now.

Muahahaha

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I haven't seen much in regards to Nóra's special needs and mention of a name for her condition.

What are her mobility issues? Does she think and behave like a much younger child or is something else?

Her condition is mentioned on the Go Fund Me page iirc. I forget the medical term but basically her brain never fully developed.

The Indo reported that she has issues with her balance when walking and needs assistance. Which makes the theory that she wandered off miles into the rain forest on her own less likely. The parents seem convinced it is an abduction, aside from them saying her wandering off would be totally out of character they also know that she has problems with balance so couldnt walk very far.

khalessi

taking into account the mobility issues then the fact she had no shoes on, and just night clothes, its all very strange

Spon Farmer

khalessi wrote: »

Her condition has been mentioned here previously and in the papers (Indo this evening), its holoprosencephaly, a condition that is considered rare and where the hemispheres of the brain fail to completely separate. It has been stated in the papers that Nora had mobility issues

I honestly don't know how parents have the the strength to deal with those kind of things. It takes more strength than I have.

Spon Farmer

Muahahaha wrote: »

Her condition is mentioned on the Go Fund Me page iirc. I forget the medical term but basically her brain never fully developed.

The Indo reported that she has issues with her balance when walking and needs assistance. Which makes the theory that she wandered off miles into the rain forest on her own less likely. The parents seem convinced it is an abduction, aside from them saying her wandering off would be totally out of character they also know that she has problems with balance so couldnt walk very far.

khalessi wrote: »

taking into account the mobility issues then the fact she had no shoes on, and just night clothes, its all very strange

What is Malaysian culture like for special needs? I don't know the country at all but I've spent time in China and it "doesn't happen there" or aT LEAST was not accepted as such when I lived there.

Spon Farmer

splinter65 wrote: »

Terrible risky business even so, carrying the dead weight of a young adult down a flight of stairs which I believe is one of those twisty ones and getting her out without one of the other 4 occupants even getting up to go to the toilet.
Very daring.
Two accomplices I suppose could do it.

It does seem unlikely but so does the child leaving the cottage herself, even more so with the mobility issues she had.

Did she wake up during the night and see something outside like an animal? If the stairs is twisty like you think could she have managed in the dark? And would she not have woke her siblings or parents?

Did some target her at he airport or elsewhere because of there condition? Would she not have been judged to be too risky?

Was it random chance that someone saw her outside the cottage when she left for some reason?

It is bizarre enough already but factor in mobility problems and every scenario seems unlikely but yet she is gone.

Spon Farmer

I just read that a 4 year old Irish boy is a serious condition in a hospital Spain after his family found him in their holiday home pool.

Am I going around with blinkers on or is this an unusually bad few weeks around the world?

MonkieSocks

khalessi wrote: »

taking into account the mobility issues then the fact she had no shoes on, and just night clothes, its all very strange

True, lots of steps and stairs, view all photo's in link below

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Hotel_Review-g298290-d1567592-Reviews-The_Dusun-Seremban_Seremban_District_Negeri_Sembilan.html#apg=0024a786d81d4d07b99942fcb94bc881&ss=D989F9637DE22D2CE0E144C908E51148

Knine

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I haven't seen much in regards to Nóra's special needs and mention of a name for her condition.

What are her mobility issues? Does she think and behave like a much younger child or is something else?

A lot of children with mobility issues or genetic disorders would have poor muscle tone, this means they would tire a lot quicker then typical kids of the same age, not be able to walk far or manage uneven ground.

It was mentioned that she is non verbal, such kids usually use alternative means of communication that would be very familiar to her family members but a stranger would have difficulty with.

Spon Farmer

MonkieSocks wrote: »

True, lots of steps and stairs, view all photo's in link below

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Hotel_Review-g298290-d1567592-Reviews-The_Dusun-Seremban_Seremban_District_Negeri_Sembilan.html#apg=0024a786d81d4d07b99942fcb94bc881&ss=D989F9637DE22D2CE0E144C908E51148

I never thought to look the place up (maybe I was avoiding it) and it is not what I thought.

I can't get a proper idea of the size and layout but I expected a large number of cottages and that it would have a lot of guests and and the terrain was different. However, it is only 7 houses, so there can't be a lot of people and the jungle area itself looks for more complex than I thought, but I can't tell if that means somebody without special needs could or couldn't have got far, let alone a girl like Nora

Spon Farmer

Knine wrote: »

A lot of children with mobility issues or genetic disorders would have poor muscle tone, this means they would tire a lot quicker then typical kids of the same age, not be able to walk far or manage uneven ground.

It was mentioned that she is non verbal, such kids usually use alternative means of communication that would be very familiar to her family members but a stranger would have difficulty with.

Would being non-verbal mean she couldn't call out for help or in surprise at all?

spurious

Spon Farmer wrote: »

What is Malaysian culture like for special needs? I don't know the country at all but I've spent time in China and it "doesn't happen there" or a rat was not accepted as such when I lived there.

The British were there into the 20th Century, weren't they? So organisationally, I would expect the mechanism of government/policing to be pretty good.
They seem to have a fairly well developed special needs education system, though like here, the trend would be towards integration in 'standard' schools.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Would being non-verbal mean she couldn't call out for help or in surprise at all?

She isn't non verbal, she has limited communication and speaks both French and English.