VAR in the Premier League

Muahahaha

So while we've had VAR for a couple of years now most of it has been confined to the World Cup, FA Cup and some of the CL. This season now marks the start of it in every game in the Premier League and with 380 games across the season it is going to be a major talking point week in, week out for analysts, media and supporters.

Whatever happens it is set to change the Premier League fundamentally. Added time after 90 minutes now is likely to be at least six minutes for many games and if long delays occur in a couple of VAR decisions that will head closer to 8 or even 10 minutes. Players who score goals thinking they might be offside won't be so quick to peel off in celebration for fear of egg on their face. The fast pace and ebb and flow of the PL is likely to get slowed down with VAR so Id expect a lot of moaning about this.

The awarding of penalties should go up at least in the short term and so too will yellow cards for simulation as players test what they can and can't get away with. Simulation decisions are probably going to be the most controversial even with the benefit of VAR and slow mo video, I can see a whole can of worms being opened about what amount of contact deems one decision to be a penalty and another identical incident to turn into a decision of a yellow card for simulation. No doubt Sky will be comparing almost identical incidents across games that were given a different VAR decision. The complaint about referees not being consistent will be amplified now even louder and the refs themselves will be put under severe scrutiny especially when they inevitably get a VAR decision wrong

One good aspect of its introduction is the PL insistence that VAR decisions are going to be communicated to fans in 18 of 20 stadiums via the big screens or in the case of Old Trafford and Anfield the decision will be announced via PA. The PL has created new graphics that will explain the VAR decision and in cases where there is a definitive video clip that reverses a referees initial decision then the clip will be broadcast to the stadium. This will be a good improvement on previous iterations of VAR where fans in the stadium were often left completely in the dark. The replaying of simulation decisions will inevitably lead to chants of Cheat, Cheat, Cheat on a regular basis and players seen on a big screen to be clearly diving are going to get a lot of abuse from the crowd. Over time it should result in the end of no-contact blatant diving.

Whatever way it goes now VAR is going to be the single biggest talking point this season. Analysts and journalists will fall into pro and anti-VAR camps and it will end up getting talked about more than the goals themselves. Its going be a bit of a mad season with VAR in place.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

Over time it should result in the end of no-contact blatant diving.

Good point, hadn't really thought about that aspect. That would be very welcome indeed.

Harry Palmr

Well depending on who you believe either Liverpool will win the league by 30 penalties or lose the league due to multiple red cards for Salah.

I'm in favour more than against but I fear it's implementation is more likely to be WCC 2019 than WC 2018. With tedious delays and confusion and refs running over to the pitch side monitor far too often.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

Good point, hadn't really thought about that aspect. That would be very welcome indeed.

Yeah, no player is going to want to be shown on a big screen doing a blatant no contact dive so this practice should stop pretty quick with the introduction of VAR. Contact dives are still likely to be a feature of the game and thats where I can see the arguments raging. Just how much contact is enough to knock someone over? There will be arguments about this until the cows come home.

Media are saying the EPL dont want refs to be using the screens on the side of the pitch unless absolutely necessary. They have a target average of 84 seconds for a VAR decision and they estimate the average time between goal, celebration and kick off again to be 61 seconds. So it should be seamless enough with just a 14 or 15 second delay over before.

The EPL are also saying their VAR decisions are not going to be as strictly interpreted as they are on the continent. One example of this that has been given was Sadio Mane winning a penalty in the CL final when Sissoko had his arm in the air pointing to cover the space behind him, Mane kicked the ball against Sissokos arm and got the penalty. The EPL refs committee are saying that would not be given as a penalty whereas on the continent it would.

citytillidie

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well depending on who you believe either Liverpool will win the league by 30 penalties or lose the league due to multiple red cards for Salah.

I'm in favour more than against but I fear it's implementation is more likely to be WCC 2019 than WC 2018. With tedious delays and confusion and refs running over to the pitch side monitor far too often.

You reading the BBC too much ?

Muahahaha

On top of VAR there is a number of rule changes this season in the PL

-A substituted player must now depart the field at the nearest bye-line rather than saunter to the halfway line where the bench is.

-Proper enforcement preventing keepers leaving their line before a penalty is taken

- On a drop-ball, the team that last touched it will be handed possession, unless the incident takes place in the goal area, in which case the ball will be given to the goalkeeper.

-Attackers may no longer mingle with a defensive wall at set-pieces but must stay one metre away or risk conceding an indirect free-kick

-At goal-kicks or free-kicks, the ball will be considered in play as soon as it is touched, and not, as previously, only when it has left the penalty area. Essentially encroachment in the box is now permitted at goal kicks which should result in more goal chances for teams with an effective high press

mav79

I'm all in favor of VAR, yes there will be inconsistencies and arguments in the area of marginal decisions but surely the blatant offenses will be cut out. I also think that the captains should have two challenges each half as per tennis where the ref has to review an incident but any further hounding of the ref should be carded.

dfx-

Going to be a lot more nonsense of late flags, no flags, non decisions, pauses after good goals, expectant pauses with everyone expecting a decision to be overturned as play goes on, decisions that refs won't have seen since they are not going to the screen on the halfway line. Decisions around or in the penalty box being reffed inconsistent to the rest of the game by the onfield ref. Shambolic handball decisions.

A mess.

Kiith

Delighted its in to be honest. There will still be bad calls, but it will cut them down by a fair amount i'd say, and should massively reduce the amount of diving that goes on. It won't stop the arguing about decisions however...sure we still disagree about various calls after looking at decisions days afterwards (Spurs vs Liverpool 2 years ago for example).

They need to make sure they have a consistent protocol for calling or not calling offsides though. Seems kind of random at times from what i've seen, where they flag when they sometimes shouldn't.

RoryMac

VAR is just another step towards football becoming a non-contact sport.

irelandrover

At the start you will see a lot of penalties given for dragging at corners but as the season goes on this should stop. Which will result in more goals from corners i'd say. same as it should stop simulation. Overall a good this.

The good thing about the PL VAR is refs are restricted to 3 replays of an incident. So VAR decision won't take too long.

rob316

An automatic yellow card if you go up to the ref making box shapes with your hands. It was awful to see at the world cup.

artanevilla

Anyone who is against VAR has never had their heart broken.

LuckyLloyd

Delighted it’s finally here. The noise around it will disappear soon enough, just takes a few years as rugby has demonstrated.

jacool

It will only be used for these 4 areas in the EPL

Goals - whether they should stand or not based on potential violations (fouls, offside, etc) in the build-up.
Penalties - whether the referee has made the correct decision in either awarding one or not.
Straight red cards - did an incident on the pitch receive the correct punishment from the referee?
Mistaken identity - when a referee awards a yellow or red card to the wrong player following an on-field incident.

Looking back on statistics from 2018 PL, which showed the ball in play for 58 of the 90 minutes on average, so we won't notice another 180 seconds or so. It'll give those poor tired creatures a little more time to recover.

As someone who has "the odd" wager on games, I'm delighted.

fatherted1969

RoryMac wrote: »

VAR is just another step towards football becoming a non-contact sport.

Diving is non contact so I'm all for that

gimli2112

rob316 wrote: »

An automatic yellow card if you go up to the ref making box shapes with your hands. It was awful to see at the world cup.

So there's that, pretending to wave a card or playing an imaginary flute in the Glasgow Derby. They're really coming down hard on the art of mime.

Strumms

VAR is new, it will take a bit of getting used to. From the officials perspective, players, managers and supporters from the point of view of its application especially. Ultimately in time it will bed down in its application and people will get used to it as a fairness enhancement tool. It might cost your team a point this weekend but fairly so but gain your team an extra two the following week. Either way it’s going to be fair.

Harry Palmr

So then is Klopp going to in effect deploy VAR to frustrate opposition attacking by deploying an ultra high line (remember AVB at Spurs when half the pitch was potentially offside and the halfway line the place to run at goal from?).

This is from the echo

Notably though, when possession is lost, usually a defensive line will drop deep to either track the run of an attacker or in order to safeguard against the risk of a long ball over the top and into the space behind.

Yet, Liverpool look to be avoiding doing the same this season, instead maintaining a high line and staying compact allowing little space in front of them for the opposition to play through.

Whilst playing such a high line can boast great reward in stifling out an opposition attack, the same also traditionally presents a high risk for a defensive unit, which is why managers have often been reluctant to utilise it.

When using the same, clubs are heavily reliant on officials correctly flagging for offsides against attacking players. Meanwhile, any defender not maintaining the line could keep an opposition attacker onside and the same could lead to a high quality chance on their goal.

However, as one of the more forward thinking clubs in Europe, Liverpool look to have implemented the high defensive line tactic in cohesion with the recent introduction of Video assistant refereeing (VAR) in the Premier League.

The rule change saw referrers provided assistance to officiate the game using video footage and a headset for communication which means that any goal scored can be scrutinised and checked for any infringements - including offsides.

This means that providing Liverpool maintain a robust and organised defensive line, they can be rest assured that any missed offside by the officials resulting in a goal will be ruled out with the assistance of VAR.

Strikingly, across Liverpool’s three competitive matches so far this season, they have been awarded 19 free-kicks for offsides. For comparison, they were awarded just five free-kicks for offsides in their final three games of last season.

As noted on the Liverpool thread, even if this works a treat it does mean a lot of running from the centre backs when it is pretty tight and making the tackle or other interception in the expectation of finally seeing a yellow flag being raised It also needs a keeper who is both alert to the potential of that ball over the top and quick to take action (while knowing when not to move other than close the angle). So it's not a perfect tactical ploy, and who knows it may be tweaked and even dropped for certain games.

Donnielighto

They have the centre backs to do it imo. Plenty of energy in that team and the cbs are pacey.

prettyboy81

Risk v Reward with VAR.

Muahahaha

Just a week in and VAR definitely making an impact on points awarded. West Ham would have lost today without it and City were denied a last minute winner which VAR ruled as offside. Havent seen the City incident yet but in games with tight margins VAR is going to make a difference across the season overall.

Lucas Hood

Muahahaha wrote: »

Just a week in and VAR definitely making an impact on points awarded. West Ham would have lost today without it and City were denied a last minute winner which VAR ruled as offside. Havent seen the City incident yet but in games with tight margins VAR is going to make a difference across the season overall.

City goal was ruled out for handball

Lucas Hood

Also City should have had a penalty in first half. Lamela I think it was had his arms around Rodris next at a corner.

mcgragger

City and their cynical fouling Will be caught out that's for sure

Third_Echelon

Lucas Hood wrote: »

City goal was ruled out for handball

Great to see it work at such an important period of the game. Last minute/injury time goals are very hard to come back from when it's against you.

j8wk2feszrnpao

VAR will result in a lot more decisions being right and fairer results. It'll never work 100%, because at the end of the day it has humans reviewing decisions. Just like refs on the field, it may come down to their own interpretation on a number of incidents.

fullstop

mcgragger wrote: »

City and their cynical fouling Will be caught out that's for sure

VAR won't have any effect on that.

POKERKING

mcgragger wrote: »

City and their cynical fouling Will be caught out that's for sure

That doesnt make any sense.

For the record every single cynical foul city make gets the correct decision ie a free kick. Whats the problem?

chicorytip

It's just a bad development for football in my opinion. It removes the human element of officials making decisions purely on what they see in front of them on the pitch.This is wrong. They make mistakes sometimes, that's part and parcel of the game, always has been. The period of time spent waiting for the VAR decision is too long. This interrupts the natural flow and rhythm of a game and will also lead to players suffering more injuries as a result of not being in perpetual motion - cramps, hamstring strains. I think it will have little effect in reducing simulation. The only deterrent against that which will work is to make it an automatic sending off offence.

NIMAN

Maybe I'm wrong here, but just seen the disallowed city goal on the RTE news and I think it's wrong to disallow a goal for that handball.

Guy knew nothing about it.

Is any contact with the arm/hand a foul now, even if totally accidental?

Shanotheslayer

NIMAN wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong here, but just seen the disallowed city goal on the RTE news and I think it's wrong to disallow a goal for that handball.

Guy knew nothing about it.

Is any contact with the arm/hand a foul now, even if totally accidental?

In short. Yes for attackers. No for defenders.

The high horse brigade

NIMAN wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong here, but just seen the disallowed city goal on the RTE news and I think it's wrong to disallow a goal for that handball.

Guy knew nothing about it.

Is any contact with the arm/hand a foul now, even if totally accidental?

It was handball though and it's just implementing the new handball rule and VAR so there's 2 things coming together

Osmosis Jones

NIMAN wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong here, but just seen the disallowed city goal on the RTE news and I think it's wrong to disallow a goal for that handball.

Guy knew nothing about it.

Is any contact with the arm/hand a foul now, even if totally accidental?

New rule says that any handball, intentional or otherwise, should be called if it directly contributes to a goal.

NIMAN

Stupid rule.

dfx-

VAR is making it worse though. Nonsensical 'handballs' rightly ignored by the ref like today are being picked up by VAR.

feedthegoat

The main VAR issue today in the City game was the obvious penalty not awarded for the foul on Rodri, defender had his hands all over him. Cannot understand why it was not awarded.

monkey9

dfx- wrote: »

VAR is making it worse though. Nonsensical 'handballs' rightly ignored by the ref like today are being picked up by VAR.

He didn't ignore it, he just didn't see it. If he had seen that in real time, he'd have disallowed the goal with the new handball rule in for this season. Hence the introduction of VAR.

The high horse brigade

Actually the handball changed the direction of the ball so it was right to be disallowed

monkey9

feedthegoat wrote: »

The main VAR issue today in the City game was the obvious penalty not awarded for the foul on Rodri, defender had his hands all over him. Cannot understand why it was not awarded.

I can't understand how they didn't recommend to the ref that he takes a look at it.

LuckyLloyd

The argument is over. The complaints are irrelevant. It’s here to stay.

Salt Lake Stallion

monkey9 wrote: »

I can't understand how they didn't recommend to the ref that he takes a look at it.

I watch a fair bit of Seire A, where they've had VAR for 2 seasons, and the refs there look a lot of the decisions themselves. In the Premier League so far and also in the Champions League they seem to be happy to let the decision come from upstairs.

Maybe it makes it easier for the ref to deal with the players on the field if they can just point at their earpiece and not have to take any of the responsibility of the decision themselves. But the ref should've looked at that one today, clearly a penalty IMO.

NIMAN

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The argument is over. The complaints are irrelevant. It’s here to stay.

Yeah, that's true.

But it'll soon get to the stage when fans stop celebrating goals, as you aren't sure a goal is a goal now until you know there won't be a VAR intervention or there is one and it goes your way.

LuckyLloyd

NIMAN wrote: »

Yeah, that's true.

But it'll soon get to the stage when fans stop celebrating goals, as you aren't sure a goal is a goal now until you know there won't be a VAR intervention or there is one and it goes your way.

Nah, rugby and American Football fans initially celebrate scores though they understand they are subject to review. The sky is not falling.

Harry Palmr

The emotions of the game are being messed with that's certain the case unless it's as clear as day the goal is good. I'm looking forward to some ironic celebration routines as the season progresses. I can see the potential for gymnastics style VAR marking cards in the crowd.

ArmaniJeanss

Interesting near the end of the Chelsea Leicester game when the flag went up against James Madison. Everyone stopped and Madison half-heartedly kicked the ball at goal, and Kepa didn't make much of an effort to stop it.
VAR went through the formalities of confirming it was offside.

I suspect we are eventually going to see an incident where everyone is going to be taken by surprise that a player was actually onside.

monkey9

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Interesting near the end of the Chelsea Leicester game when the flag went up against James Madison. Everyone stopped and Madison half-heartedly kicked the ball at goal, and Kepa didn't make much of an effort to stop it.
VAR went through the formalities of confirming it was offside.

I suspect we are eventually going to see an incident where everyone is going to be taken by surprise that a player was actually onside.

I don't know what happened there as the assistant is meant to keep the flag down until play ends so i don't why he raised it at that point. Maybe Madison was clearly miles offside or something, but surely he should still be waiting.

cj maxx

monkey9 wrote: »

I don't know what happened there as the assistant is meant to keep the flag down until play ends so i don't why he raised it at that point. Maybe Madison was clearly miles offside or something, but surely he should still be waiting.

Different interactions between uefa and the epl I think

Rayne Wooney

The issue in football has always been that the rules were far too vague and every referee had a different interpretation.

The new rule is fine for handballs because there is basically zero interpretation, regardless of intent, if you get an advantage from a handball it should be a foul, end of.

The issue is now if it will be enforced or not because a defender blocking a ball with an arm was rarely punished before. If they don’t have consistency then it becomes a farce, again.

For the record I’ve been saying years that we would be better off without VAR.

ctrl-alt-delete

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The issue in football has always been that the rules were far too vague and every referee had a different interpretation.

The new rule is fine for handballs because there is basically zero interpretation, regardless of intent, if you get an advantage from a handball it should be a foul, end of.

The issue is now if it will be enforced or not because a defender blocking a ball with an arm was rarely punished before. If they don’t have consistency then it becomes a farce, again.

For the record I’ve been saying years that we would be better off without VAR.

The defensive ones are still open to interpretation are they not?

Rayne Wooney

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

The defensive ones are still open to interpretation are they not?

Well that’s silly.