Are we going to have alot of homeless pensioners?

ashes2014

This quesiton is aimed at everyone who is working and is currently renting from a private landlord and through choice or no other option plans to rent long term.

Where are you planning to live when you retire?

Its a question that came up recently between a group of us and none of us really had any viable answers.

Are we going to have alot of homeless pensioners?

Horusire

I have wondered this myself. My own brother is doing this. No plans to buy a house.

Cannot see it ending well.

Addle

I’m trying to encourage a couple of friends hitting 40 and renting in Dublin to buy at home (cheaper), rent it out and then continue renting in Dublin.
At least they’ll have an asset come 65/70.
They’re annoyed at everyone but themselves because they spent their 20s and 30s having a good time and traveling rather than saving for a deposit so they can buy in the location of their choice.

L1011

We had this problem in a previous housing crisis. State built substantial numbers of very small social housing units - two or three floor blocks of basically bedsits. Some have been demolished and many others have had unit mergers to create bigger flats since.

The same will need to be done again; but preferably done better. The Iveagh Trust are doing work in this sector (Annamore Court on this list being a replacement for a derelict set of those council bedsits) but we can't rely on the voluntary sector - and they're Dublin specific anyway.

ashes2014

Addle wrote: »

I’m trying to encourage a couple of friends hitting 40 and renting in Dublin to buy at home (cheaper), rent it out and then continue renting in Dublin.
At least they’ll have an asset come 65/70.
They’re annoyed at everyone but themselves because they spent their 20s and 30s having a good time and traveling rather than saving for a deposit so they can buy in the location of their choice.

Thats not a bad idea.

The only downside to that is, you are taxed @40% on rental income (assuming higher rate of tax) and cannot offset it against any mortgage payments.

You would end up having to charge a substantial amount of rent to cover the tax and the mortgage payments.

Still thought, its an option and one worth considering while you can still get a mortgage.

endacl

ashes2014 wrote: »

Thats not a bad idea.

The only downside to that is, you are taxed @40% on rental income (assuming higher rate of tax) and cannot offset it against any mortgage payments.

You would end up having to charge a substantial amount of rent to cover the tax and the mortgage payments.

Still thought, its an option and one worth considering while you can still get a mortgage.

You can set a property purchase up as a pension trust. Any expenses are deductible, and rental surplus goes into the fund.

Horusire

I think this alongside the pension time bomb that's coming circa 2035? Or maybe later not 100% will really set Ireland back a long way.

I am in the public sector and I genuinely don't believe that the pension I am paying into will be there in 2042 when I am supposed to retire. The state will also have to pay these pensioners pensions which will IMO have a major effect on Ireland at that time.

mariaalice

There will have to be more small council or not for profit run housing for older people and the like of this http://sueryderfoundation.ie/

The issue is that younger older people are often resident to living in places like the above so it means the younger old people can be the types that have various social issue which makes it even more unattractive, the older old people seem to grand with it.

Its not a new thing its was not just young people who lived all the bedsite that use to be around Dublin.

mariaalice

There was a brilliant but disturbing article in the Irish time a while ago about people in their 50s and 60s in Dublin who are still renting, however, the majority had lead somewhat unconventional lives, musicians. or they had traveled a lot, or moved around a lot though not all were like that.

ashes2014

Horusire wrote: »

I think this alongside the pension time bomb that's coming circa 2035? Or maybe later not 100% will really set Ireland back a long way.

I am in the public sector and I genuinely don't believe that the pension I am paying into will be there in 2042 when I am supposed to retire. The state will also have to pay these pensioners pensions which will IMO have a major effect on Ireland at that time.

I agree with everything you are saying-and its maddening that you have no choice but to pay into a pension, espically when you suspect the pension may not even exist when you do retire.

Its quite terryifyng when you realise that we are like sitting ducks.

Mad_maxx

Any TD or minister shouting for an increase in the state pension is an enemy of those under fifty, Willie o dea and Regina Doherty are the biggest culprits but the spoiling of pensioners is policy in every party

We need to wake up

EB_2013

I wonder how they manage in Europe were a bigger percentage of households rent compared to Ireland. Do they have longer leases or something like purpose built housing for retirees like they have in the UK.

Gasherbraun

I work with homeless people over the age of 60 and here are some of the facts.

- A good proportion of the people becoming homeless or at serious risk are in the situation because the landlord has legally ended the tenancy. These tenancies are often very long term. 20 and even 30 years is not unusual.

- The majority of applications to us are from men. Often they left the marital home (separation) voluntarily and went into a bedsit while still working. Then they stop working and start struggling.

- These people are able to get HAP / Rent supplement but face the same challenges as other people with the added problem of ageism.

- 25% of the people who apply to us for housing are foreign nationals.

- The vast majority of people we see do not have issues around drink and drugs and they are at risk because of circumstances beyond their control normally.

- Our list of applicants has tripled since 2017.

We are developing age specific housing (we are not for profit) in Dublin and looking for opportunities nationally but the sector needs huge investment to counter the future impact of our aging population.

On top of how we provide housing for older people more thought is needed on how we integrate different sectors of society and provide affordable housing to a wider sector of society not just those who are traditionally seen as disadvantaged.

LuckyLloyd

As a state we will pay to build purpose built social housing. There will be no other options and ultimately we will not countenance pensioners dying on the street.

4068ac1elhodqr

Don't forget the coming automation job replacement (only the very most highly skilled will have jobs 2035), coming gig-economy, C-Tax haven loss, and an increasing average age heading to 42yr by 2050.

tayto lover

Anyone know how Germany fares in this area as they have many many citizens who rent?

endacl

tayto lover wrote: »

Anyone know how Germany fares in this area as they have many many citizens who rent?

They have sensible rules.

Wouldn’t work here.

DubCount

The issues of pensions and home ownership are inter-related. If you save up a sufficient pension pot to produce a retirement income that pays your rent in retirement, that should avoid the financial risk of old age homelessness (if we had a functioning rental market).

Homelessness is caused by insufficient social housing supply. Either the government supplies more social housing directly (funded by extra taxes) or it creates an environment to encourage private investment. I think it is misleading to bring retirement savings (a completely different problem) into the debate, when anything distracting from supply only muddies the waters.

Assetbacked

A direct result of FG's catastrophic failure with the rental crisis will be that the majority of those retiring will need to be cared for by the state for 20+ years on average with a house and pension once they retire.

These people are the current young generation who are already stuck renting and are likely to have to work until they are 70 by the time they retire, in order to save the state some cash. If you own your own home now and there is minimal or no mortgage on it, you should not be getting state pension.

Ha Long Bay

Assetbacked wrote: »

A direct result of FG's catastrophic failure with the rental crisis will be that the majority of those retiring will need to be cared for by the state for 20+ years on average with a house and pension once they retire.

These people are the current young generation who are already stuck renting and are likely to have to work until they are 70 by the time they retire, in order to save the state some cash. If you own your own home now and there is minimal or no mortgage on it, you should not be getting state pension.

If you contribute tax, PRSI and USC for 40 years to the state why should you not be entitled to a state pension?

Geuze

Assetbacked wrote: »

If you own your own home now and there is minimal or no mortgage on it, you should not be getting state pension.

Main SPC is based on paying Social Insurance.

If you have paid enough PRSI, you get the SPC.

endacl

Assetbacked wrote: »

If you own your own home now and there is minimal or no mortgage on it, you should not be getting state pension.

If you paid your mortgage, you own your house.
If you paid your stamps, you own your pension.

There’s no crossover.

aido79

endacl wrote: »

If you paid your mortgage, you own your house.
If you paid your stamps, you own your pension.

There’s no crossover.

Stamps were abolished in 1979 but don't know how this affects a person's pension.

ted1

Assetbacked wrote: »

If you own your own home now and there is minimal or no mortgage on it, you should not be getting state pension.

Bollock!!
What do you think our PRSI is going to. We are paying it ourselves.
How about if you sponge off the state for more than 2 years you dint get the dole instead you get a nutritionist to order your food from Tesco and that’s it.

Topgear on Dave

ted1 wrote: »

Bollock!!
What do you think our PRSI is going to. We are paying it ourselves.

I not sure, I think I read that the prsi funds are spent on today's pensioners as they come in, not saved for tomorrow.

There may well be no fund in future.

The Student

Assetbacked wrote: »

A direct result of FG's catastrophic failure with the rental crisis will be that the majority of those retiring will need to be cared for by the state for 20+ years on average with a house and pension once they retire.

These people are the current young generation who are already stuck renting and are likely to have to work until they are 70 by the time they retire, in order to save the state some cash. If you own your own home now and there is minimal or no mortgage on it, you should not be getting state pension.

What a ridiculous post. So what you are saying is don't work and buy your own home. If you actually try to look after yourself and pay taxes you are on your own when you retire.

Are you trying to prompt reactions or do you really beleive this thinking?

Portsalon

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I not sure, I think I read that the prsi funds are spent on today's pensioners as they come in, not saved for tomorrow.

There may well be no fund in future.

PRSI funds are spent on Social Welfare Benefit (not Assistance) payments and surpluses are transferred to the Investment Fund. At end-2017, the amount in the SW Investment Fund was about €1.185bn.

Yurt2

endacl wrote: »

They have sensible rules.

Wouldn’t work here.

This. If you attempted to introduce here German style rules that would give renters some semblance of stability, boards servers would catch fire from all the skin and hair flying in this forum.

Rodin

Far too many being supported from cradle to grave.

And those who work hard, pay for everything will be further punished because they may have some savings.

There is true inequality in this country, but not in the direction the lefties would have you believe.

Yurt2

Rodin wrote: »

Far too many being supported from cradle to grave.

And those who work hard, pay for everything will be further punished because they may have some savings.

There is true inequality in this country, but not in the direction the lefties would have you believe.

Yes, it's that tiny sliver of long-term unemployed that is causing a pensions time bomb, in-work poverty, housing unaffordability and the prospect of hundreds of thousands in old-age homelessness in a couple of decades. :rolleyes:

Portsalon

Handy top-level breakdown of Social Welfare payments (scroll down slightly).

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2019/