Are we going to have alot of homeless pensioners?

Mad_maxx

Addle wrote: »

A single lady I know of retired lately after spending her whole working life renting in Dublin, on a low level wage, and has just bought a house in her hometown for cash from her lifetime of savings.

That's good but one wonders why she left it so long to buy, a single person has no dependants, until circa 1993, most houses cost about three years wages

Mad_maxx

niallers1 wrote: »

Those who saved and worked and sacrificed to pay for their own house and paid tax/prsi should get the state pension.

Some people here suggesting that homeowners shouldn't.

So if instead that homeowner instead of paying a mortgage decided to spend that money in the pub and said to hell with it i'm going to let the state take care of my housing and at the end of it i'll get the state pension.

Tell me again why the person who sacrificed and worked and decided to put a roof over their family head should not get the state pension they contributed towards and the layabout should get it.

The state pension belongs to the person making the PRSI contributions.
The house paid for by sacrifice belongs to the homeowner.

Two separate things,

The difference between the contributory and non contributory pension is about ten quid per week

Both are far too high, even with respect of the contributory, three quarters of recipients will draw down four times what they put in

A reflection of the increase in life expectancy, the huge increase in the state pension since 1997 and the extremely modest criteria for eligilibity

Graces7

pc7 wrote: »

A lady I work with is 60, has worked for 43 years and cannot afford to retire and is dreading it. Rents a dingy flat, can't afford to move, has no family, 1 close friend outside of work. Its pretty grim, she doesn't know what she is going to do when the time comes to retiring.

Can she get on the council list? She will qualify maybe. I was in private rentals until I could not find any more within my range( pensioner) and changed to council accommodation. Maybe citizens info will have more exact info? I feel secure for the first time for years.

IAMAMORON

Addle wrote: »

I’m trying to encourage a couple of friends hitting 40 and renting in Dublin to buy at home (cheaper), rent it out and then continue renting in Dublin.
At least they’ll have an asset come 65/70.
They’re annoyed at everyone but themselves because they spent their 20s and 30s having a good time and traveling rather than saving for a deposit so they can buy in the location of their choice.

The smug brigade says hello, congratulations.

Graces7

Mad_maxx wrote: »

She sounds like a terrible planner,something is amiss if you have worked constantly since twenty yet face retirement with a bleak outlook, the state pension is extremely generous, she e should be grand

Maybe back up that idea with actual figures? Please.

Mad_maxx

Graces7 wrote: »

Maybe back up that idea with actual figures? Please.

It's at least 60% higher than in the UK

Addle

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The smug brigade says hello, congratulations.

If sensible and secure = smug, that’s fine by me.

Saudades

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's at least 60% higher than in the UK

I make it 32% higher but my maths isn't great.

Full Irish pension is €248.30.
Full UK pension is £168.60 (€184.63).

The Irish is higher overall but you need to work 13 years more for it.

You only need 35 years of contributions for the full UK, and currently 48 years contributions for the full Irish.

So actually if you worked 48 years in Ireland for the maximum pension, each year gets you €5.17 towards your pension.

And if you worked 35 years in the UK for the maximum pension there, each year gets you £4.81 (€5.26), so the UK actually pay more per year when you break it down.

Unless my terrible maths is wrong.

And that's not even touching on the fact that the UK PRSI contributions pay towards their NHS, so they receive a smaller pension but free healthcare.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The difference between the contributory and non contributory pension is about ten quid per week

Both are far too high, even with respect of the contributory, three quarters of recipients will draw down four times what they put in

It certainly isn't too high if you're 65 years old and still paying rent. But I can see how it seems high in correlation to a 4% PRSI rate.

A higher PRSI tax bracket could be introduced for higher earners. 4% is far too low for the higher earners that likely won't even need the state pension when they retire.

Graces7

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's at least 60% higher than in the UK

That is not true. I am a UK pensioner living here. Sure we get this made up here but although you can live on it, it is not over- generous and great care is needed.

And the cost of living here is far higher than in the UK also so your theory is not valid anyways..

Colonel Claptrap

Assetbacked wrote: »

We have workers paying huge chunks of their salaries in rent to institutional landlords which have shareholders based internationally outside of Ireland who get these salaries into their pockets tax free. This is a bigger issue than what you have highlighted but the only reason it is not seemingly as pressing is because we don't have the voices in the ear of the high ranking civil servants and their bosses in the Dept of Finance. It should bring down the government the fact that the tax incentives to institutionals has not been suppressed, three years past their need.

This is scaremongering, bordering on hysteria.

Institutional landlords make up less than 5% of the rental market.

Get a grip.

JustAThought

We will be having a homeless pension crisis -all those who took out mortgages in their mid to late 30's and who consequently get zero state support. If they lose their jobs,get cancer, become sick or unable to work or if their skills becime obsolete or replacable by zero hours or third world immigrant cheap labour then they will be unable to meet their mortgage payments and these homes will be reposessed by the banks even if there is only a few months or a few years of a 20,25 or 30 year mortgage left to pay. After spending the majority of their working life paying their mortgage it becomes meaningless and they are unprotected by the social welfare and social housing/rent allowance safety-net that those renters have and will lose everything. Its the crisis gallopi g down the motorway towards us and because of the alligiencies and pilicies of past and current governments that refuse to offer ant state support to those who pay their way and do not expect a state funded home or be a burden for the majority of their lives on the taxpayer that they willbe the very section crucified when they become elderly,ill or obsolete while those who jave rent allowance,council or charity /taxpayer funded charity housing or those who decide or refuse to work ate protected from cradle to grave. And thats before we talk about the UNfair deal that refuses to give basic medical vare for lifelong illnesses like dementia , alzheimers, or serious brain injuries such as stroke that force mortage owners to sign their home away for medical care refused by the state and will see the spouse or adult children forced from the family home to pay for medical and end of life care for their aged infirm parents afterthey spent their lifetime paying for VHI/healthcare and paying off a mortgage. Those renting and in council/taxpayer funded charity housing will get this for free and have their family protected. Unfair much?You bet. Zero incentive to pay your way or work.

TSQ

Saudades wrote: »

I make it 32% higher but my maths isn't great.

Full Irish pension is €248.30.
Full UK pension is £168.60 (€184.63).

The Irish is higher overall but you need to work 13 years more for it.

You only need 35 years of contributions for the full UK, and currently 48 years contributions for the full Irish.

So actually if you worked 48 years in Ireland for the maximum pension, each year gets you €5.17 towards your pension.

And if you worked 35 years in the UK for the maximum pension there, each year gets you £4.81 (€5.26), so the UK actually pay more per year when you break it down. “ QUOTE]

I just retired after less than 30 years working and getting full pension. Friends retiring over next few years will get the same. No-one retiring any time soon will have to work 48 years for a full pension.

Portsalon

JustAThought wrote: »

We will be having a homeless pension crisis -all those who took out mortgages in their mid to late 30's and who consequently get zero state support. If they lose their jobs,get cancer, become sick or unable to work or if their skills becime obsolete or replacable by zero hours or third world immigrant cheap labour then they will be unable to meet their mortgage payments and these homes will be reposessed by the banks even if there is only a few months or a few years of a 20,25 or 30 year mortgage left to pay. After spending the majority of their working life paying their mortgage it becomes meaningless and they are unprotected by the social welfare and social housing/rent allowance safety-net that those renters have and will lose everything. Its the crisis gallopi g down the motorway towards us and because of the alligiencies and pilicies of past and current governments that refuse to offer ant state support to those who pay their way and do not expect a state funded home or be a burden for the majority of their lives on the taxpayer that they willbe the very section crucified when they become elderly,ill or obsolete while those who jave rent allowance,council or charity /taxpayer funded charity housing or those who decide or refuse to work ate protected from cradle to grave. And thats before we talk about the UNfair deal that refuses to give basic medical vare for lifelong illnesses like dementia , alzheimers, or serious brain injuries such as stroke that force mortage owners to sign their home away for medical care refused by the state and will see the spouse or adult children forced from the family home to pay for medical and end of life care for their aged infirm parents afterthey spent their lifetime paying for VHI/healthcare and paying off a mortgage. Those renting and in council/taxpayer funded charity housing will get this for free and have their family protected. Unfair much?You bet. Zero incentive to pay your way or work.

Happy days ahead, right enough. I wonder will people still be voting for the Healy-Raes in 40 years time.

splinter65

TSQ wrote: »

Saudades wrote: »

I make it 32% higher but my maths isn't great.

Full Irish pension is €248.30.
Full UK pension is £168.60 (€184.63).

The Irish is higher overall but you need to work 13 years more for it.

You only need 35 years of contributions for the full UK, and currently 48 years contributions for the full Irish.

So actually if you worked 48 years in Ireland for the maximum pension, each year gets you €5.17 towards your pension.

And if you worked 35 years in the UK for the maximum pension there, each year gets you £4.81 (€5.26), so the UK actually pay more per year when you break it down. “ QUOTE]

I just retired after less than 30 years working and getting full pension. Friends retiring over next few years will get the same. No-one retiring any time soon will have to work 48 years for a full pension.

In the new “Total Contributions Approach” about to be introduced you will need 40 years of contributions but up to 20 of those years will be “allowed” if caring for children aged under 12, caring for an adult needing full time care and attention, and some time on a SW payment for which a PRSI credit was awarded.

Portsalon

splinter65 wrote: »

In the new “Total Contributions Approach” about to be introduced you will need 40 years of contributions but up to 20 of those years will be “allowed” if caring for children aged under 12, caring for an adult needing full time care and attention, and some time on a SW payment for which a PRSI credit was awarded.

To clarify the above a bit:

You will need to have a minimum of 10 years paid contributions (520) to be eligible.

once eligible, you are allowed to have a maximum of 20 years of credits (1040) (as described above by splinter)

So, if you ended up with 10 years of paid PRSI and 20 years of PRSI credits then you would have a total of 1560 reckonable contributions/credits.

These would be divided by 2080 (40 years * 52 weeks) and you would end up with 75% of the full pension.

And so on.

The new TCA arrangements are meant to start on 1 Jan 2020, so Regina needs to have the new legislation enacted before the end of the year; I suspect that it will be rushed through just before Christmas without much debate.

TSQ

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Housing is far more expensive today than forty three years ago relative to wages

Yes, but everything else, from food to foreign holidays, is a fraction of the cost. Which is conveniently overlooked by those punting intergenerational unfairness.

Mad_maxx

TSQ wrote: »

Yes, but everything else, from food to foreign holidays, is a fraction of the cost. Which is conveniently overlooked by those punting intergenerational unfairness.

Those are consumer discretionary items

Necesities are what count

TSQ

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Those are consumer discretionary items

Necesities are what count

Food?

Mad_maxx

TSQ wrote: »

Food?

Plain food wasn't expensive thirty years ago

TSQ

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Plain food wasn't expensive thirty years ago

No.? Even the basics were a lot more expensive, in relative terms, and you could forget about imported fruit and veg

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/were-spending-far-less-on-food-than-we-did-70-years-ago-35683135.htmlg

The J Stands for Jay

endacl wrote: »

You can set a property purchase up as a pension trust. Any expenses are deductible, and rental surplus goes into the fund.

But then you won't be able to live there when you retire, so you might as well invest your pension in sensible assets instead.

Eric Cartman

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Plain food wasn't expensive thirty years ago

flour, rice, pasta, vegetables, oil, chicken and beef were all much more expensive years ago. Those are the basic foods. You now have the option to buy premium steak from a craft butcher or filthy tesco value mince for a fraction of the price, that wasnt the case before about the 1980s for most.

TSQ

TSQ wrote: »

No.? Even the basics were a lot more expensive, in relative terms, and you could forget about imported fruit and veg

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/were-spending-far-less-on-food-than-we-did-70-years-ago-35683135.htmlg

Sorry, bad link.. Farming Independent price comparison here

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/were-spending-far-less-on-food-than-we-did-70-years-ago-35683135.html

Berserker

ashes2014 wrote: »

Where are you planning to live when you retire?

Not think retirement as we know it will be a thing of the past in 30 years time? The retirement age will be pushed well above 70 years of age, if there is one. There will also be another three or four recessions within that time frame, so it's very hard to know what the state of affairs will be like.

Horusire wrote: »

I am in the public sector and I genuinely don't believe that the pension I am paying into will be there in 2042 when I am supposed to retire. The state will also have to pay these pensioners pensions which will IMO have a major effect on Ireland at that time.

Private sector pensions will be hit and miss but you've as good a chance as anyone of having a pension in 2042.

Horusire

Berserker wrote: »

ashes2014 wrote: »

Where are you planning to live when you retire?

Not think retirement as we know it will be a thing of the past in 30 years time? The retirement age will be pushed well above 70 years of age, if there is one. There will also be another three or four recessions within that time frame, so it's very hard to know what the state of affairs will be like.

Horusire wrote: »

I am in the public sector and I genuinely don't believe that the pension I am paying into will be there in 2042 when I am supposed to retire. The state will also have to pay these pensioners pensions which will IMO have a major effect on Ireland at that time.

Private sector pensions will be hit and miss but you've as good a chance as anyone of having a pension in 2042.

Why would you think that? I think that although the pension might be there it will be far less generous then the current pension and as this is a primary reason why some people stay in the public sector , it is definitely worth consideration.

I am leaving for the private sector so it won't affect me as much but I worry for others.

L1011

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Plain food wasn't expensive thirty years ago

As a portion of income, it absolutely was

Idbatterim

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Any TD or minister shouting for an increase in the state pension is an enemy of those under fifty, Willie o dea and Regina Doherty are the biggest culprits but the spoiling of pensioners is policy in every party

We need to wake up

I just read an article about this yesterday. It is an absolute disgrace. Free travel , free tv license. Hundreds of millions again up in smoke on another fiver for all. The young and youngish in this country are fcuked! No amount of money is too much for rent etc ... but they keep pushing back the lpt review date. Because primarily the pensioners might be hit with a catastrophic hundred euro yearly rise. How many in Dublin are paying e800-900 for a fcuking bedroom in a hour share in Dublin?!

Berserker

Idbatterim wrote: »

I just read an article about this yesterday. It is an absolute disgrace. Free travel , free tv license. Hundreds of millions again up in smoke on another fiver for all. The young and youngish in this country are fcuked! No amount of money is too much for rent etc ... but they keep pushing back the lpt review date. Because primarily the pensioners might be hit with a catastrophic hundred euro yearly rise. How many in Dublin are paying e800-900 for a fcuking bedroom in a hour share in Dublin?!

Old people protests and old people vote. Woe betide any TD who messes with their free travel or free TV license. I understand their concerns regarding the LPT. It'll be a hundred quid at the start but it'll spiral out of control pretty quickly. Home ownership is going to become a thing of the past, so most young people won't have to worry about the LPT.

TSQ

Idbatterim wrote: »

I just read an article about this yesterday. It is an absolute disgrace. Free travel , free tv license. Hundreds of millions again up in smoke on another fiver for all. The young and youngish in this country are fcuked! No amount of money is too much for rent etc ... but they keep pushing back the lpt review date. Because primarily the pensioners might be hit with a catastrophic hundred euro yearly rise. How many in Dublin are paying e800-900 for a fcuking bedroom in a hour share in Dublin?!

I’m a pensioner (contributary) and absolutely agree. It is also outrageous that highly paid public servants continue to receive generous to excessive income in retirement based on final salary. There should be a cap on public sector pensions and anyone who wants more should have to do the same as the private sector, pay into a private pension.

Das Reich

EB_2013 wrote: »

I wonder how they manage in Europe were a bigger percentage of households rent compared to Ireland. Do they have longer leases or something like purpose built housing for retirees like they have in the UK.

Italy have dozens of thousand of retired people living abroad. The favorite country is Portugal but also Cape Verde and Spain were languages are similar. Large number also live in Bulgaria, South America, and in south of Italy.