Are we going to have alot of homeless pensioners?

gctest50

Graces7 wrote: »

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Yes I'm for fcuking real, it's far and away the highest in Europe, the cash payment is only the start, there are a list as long as you're arm of added benefits which make it worth about 400 per week

Wake up

Itemise please?

And jusitify your other assessment!

Set it against the cost of living here.

13160 pension

420 electricity allowance

468 living alone

660 coastal island allowance

30 phone allowance

630 fuel allowance

160 tv licence

300 refuse


15928

÷ 52

= 306

+ 6 ( bonus )


= € 312



.( might want to check that)

Always Tired

So what happens to all the ones that everyone gives out about on here that don't work 'as a lifestyle choice'? if they don't have the PRSI payments when they reach retirement age? (I know some will say they've been retired their whole lives but I am genuinely curious/confused). do they not get a pension?

My mate in the US,s father just retired, he is getting 150% of his top salary as a pension. He worked for the sewer department, they have their 1st house paid off and have a holiday home right on the beach. his son is working in the same dept now following in his footsteps, just bought his 1st home. neither went to college.

but here we're going to end up with a nation of highly educated oldsters barely able to afford to heat cramped mouldy flats, because of this governments ineptitude s regards the housing/rental crisis.

Graces7

Minus the 2 allowances few qualify for! Island and living alone.

Try again please.

gctest50 wrote: »

13160 pension

420 electricity allowance

468 living alone

660 coastal island allowance

30 phone allowance

630 fuel allowance

160 tv licence

300 refuse


15928

÷ 52

= 306

+ 6 ( bonus )


= € 312



.( might want to check that)

C3PO

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Yes I'm for fcuking real, it's far and away the highest in Europe, the cash payment is only the start, there are a list as long as you're arm of added benefits which make it worth about 400 per week

Wake up

I think you must have confused this forum with “Out of Hours”?

ELM327

gctest50 wrote: »

13160 pension

420 electricity allowance

468 living alone

660 coastal island allowance

30 phone allowance

630 fuel allowance

160 tv licence

300 refuse


15928

÷ 52

= 306

+ 6 ( bonus )


= € 312



.( might want to check that)

You also forgot to include rent allowance

C3PO

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Yes I'm for fcuking real, it's far and away the highest in Europe, the cash payment is only the start, there are a list as long as you're arm of added benefits which make it worth about 400 per week

Wake up

I’d be very interested to see your source for that statement? As far as I can see Ireland is ranked 10th in Europe in terms of our State Pension but you clearly have more accurate information .... or do you?

gctest50

ELM327 wrote: »

You also forgot to include rent allowance

and

free travel

free gp visits

ELM327

gctest50 wrote: »

and

free travel

free gp visits

So it's easily €400 a week. Probably well in excess of that including the HAP.


The current pension payments are not sustainable. In the next few decades we will move from 5:1 to 2:1 ratio of working people to pensioners.
The current lap of untouchable handouts for pensioners is going to end. It must

Graces7

gctest50 wrote: »

and

free travel

free gp visits

????

Oh and amend please your inaccurate list. Thank you

niallers1

How much do people think old age pensioners should get from the state when they retire after paying towards it for 40 years.
How much would they(people who say pensioners are the problem) need themselves in retirement.

if somebody contributes we'll say an average of €100 per month to PRSI over 40 years compounded at average stock market returns (7-8% over the past few years, even more if you go back longer) they could expect a pension pot of at least 250k. we'll say that needs to last them 20 years for retirement. That's about 12.5k per year.

Obviously, the portion that is not drawn down stays invested and continues to make a conservative 5%.

If the government invested PRSI contributions we would be in a much better position.
Old age pensioners are not the problem. It's wasteful government spending.

ELM327

niallers1 wrote: »

How much do people think old age pensioners should get from the state when they retire after paying towards it for 40 years.
How much would they(people who say pensioners are the problem) need themselves in retirement.

if somebody contributes we'll say an average of €100 per month to PRSI over 40 years compounded at average stock market returns (7-8% over the past few years, even more if you go back longer) they could expect a pension pot of at least 250k. we'll say that needs to last them 20 years for retirement. That's about 12.5k per year.

Obviously, the portion that is not drawn down stays invested and continues to make a conservative 5%.

If the government invested PRSI contributions we would be in a much better position.
Old age pensioners are not the problem. It's wasteful government spending.

Its not a pension contribution. PRSI is a tax.


I fully expect to be working past 68, will invest in my own pension (as soon as we move house and I can reduce savings) and rely on that.

Graces7

niallers1 wrote: »

How much do people think old age pensioners should get from the state when they retire after paying towards it for 40 years.
How much would they(people who say pensioners are the problem) need themselves in retirement.

if somebody contributes we'll say an average of €100 per month to PRSI over 40 years compounded at average stock market returns (7-8% over the past few years, even more if you go back longer) they could expect a pension pot of at least 250k. we'll say that needs to last them 20 years for retirement. That's about 12.5k per year.

Obviously, the portion that is not drawn down stays invested and continues to make a conservative 5%.

If the government invested PRSI contributions we would be in a much better position.
Old age pensioners are not the problem. It's wasteful government spending.

For those words, thank you

What makes this thread hard reading is the basic lack of reality about old age, about old people. Reducing it to costs. The lack of , well, yes, caring, re a very real situation that is threatening old folk

A country's civilisation is shown in how it treats its children, its sick, its old folk. Old people need food, a roof, warmth, health care. That must be a priority starting with a safe roof. That is what the pension is for, and still the figures every winter of deaths by hypothermia are appalling.

Good sound accommodation is a priority if needless suffering and deaths are to be avoided. You cannot cut back on the vulnerable in any modern country worthy of the name.

Addle

We’ll just have to start putting people down, starting with the single and childless, as they’ll have no one to look after them.

gctest50

gctest50 wrote: »

and

free travel

free gp visits

free travel and free GP visits are NOT allowances.
So if people do not go to the doctor and do not travel they are not benefiting as these are not payments!

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

free travel and free GP visits are NOT allowances.
So if people do not go to the doctor and do not travel they are not benefiting as these are not payments!

Yes but you prorate the costs
EG €1m cost for gp care spread across each 10k pensioners is 1,000,000/10,000 or €100 per year per person.
Regardless of if one person visited 10 times and 9 others visited 0 times

It doesnt matter what the person received, it's the cost to the exchequer that matters

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

free travel and free GP visits are NOT allowances.
So if people do not go to the doctor and do not travel they are not benefiting as these are not payments!

well said. also free TV licence as no TV here.

Graces7

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but you prorate the costs
EG €1m cost for gp care spread across each 10k pensioners is 1,000,000/10,000 or €100 per year per person.
Regardless of if one person visited 10 times and 9 others visited 0 times

It doesnt matter what the person received, it's the cost to the exchequer that matters

:eek:

ELM327

Great debate there!

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but you prorate the costs
EG €1m cost for gp care spread across each 10k pensioners is 1,000,000/10,000 or €100 per year per person.
Regardless of if one person visited 10 times and 9 others visited 0 times

It doesnt matter what the person received, it's the cost to the exchequer that matters

I thought this thread was about homeless pensioners and the sums were kindly worked out(by gctest50 post #122) on what each pensioner could be entitled to as a payment . So I was simply saying the free gp card and free travel are not a payment.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought this thread was about homeless pensioners and the sums were kindly worked out(by gctest50 post #122) on what each pensioner could be entitled to as a payment . So I was simply saying the free gp card and free travel are not a payment.

That post was about the cost to the state implication of the payment.

Sleepy

I've often wondered why we treat the OAPs so well. As the one's who've gotten to vote most often, they're literally the demographic most to blame for the problems of the state (and often those who've benefited most from it's corruption).

Yet rather than blame them for the sins of crooks they elected, we treat them as being as agent-less as innocent children

Mad_maxx

gctest50 wrote: »

13160 pension

420 electricity allowance

468 living alone

660 coastal island allowance

30 phone allowance

630 fuel allowance

160 tv licence

300 refuse


15928

÷ 52

= 306

+ 6 ( bonus )


= € 312



.( might want to check that)

Pensioners visit the doctor and go to the pharmacy very often and are never off public transport

Mad_maxx

niallers1 wrote: »

How much do people think old age pensioners should get from the state when they retire after paying towards it for 40 years.
How much would they(people who say pensioners are the problem) need themselves in retirement.

if somebody contributes we'll say an average of €100 per month to PRSI over 40 years compounded at average stock market returns (7-8% over the past few years, even more if you go back longer) they could expect a pension pot of at least 250k. we'll say that needs to last them 20 years for retirement. That's about 12.5k per year.

Obviously, the portion that is not drawn down stays invested and continues to make a conservative 5%.

If the government invested PRSI contributions we would be in a much better position.
Old age pensioners are not the problem. It's wasteful government spending.

They don't come close to putting in what they draw down in the vast majority of cases

The UK pension rate is about right, a couple receive less per individual, free travel restricted to local area

Technocentral

tayto lover wrote: »

Anyone know how Germany fares in this area as they have many many citizens who rent?

Its still a civic society by and large, not a dog eat dog place like Ireland.

listermint

Ryan Quiet Penknife wrote: »

Don't forget the coming automation job replacement (only the very most highly skilled will have jobs 2035), coming gig-economy, C-Tax haven loss, and an increasing average age heading to 42yr by 2050.

You will never replace electricians, plumbers, plasterers or pretty much most skilled trades. These are not Gig Economy either.


Just an often over looked thing by folks selling the gig economy only economy.


I personally have never seen a poor Plumber

gctest50

gctest50 wrote: »

13160 pension

420 electricity allowance

468 living alone

660 coastal island allowance

30 phone allowance

630 fuel allowance

160 tv licence

300 refuse


15928

÷ 52

= 306

+ 6 ( bonus )


= € 312



.( might want to check that)

No refuse allowance.

gctest50

3.593 % of the GDP ( 2015)

ELM327

gctest50 wrote: »

3.593 % of the GDP ( 2015)

but, over twice the expenditure on Jobseekers benefit and 40% of the total expenditure of the Dept of Social Protection

Graces7

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Pensioners visit the doctor and go to the pharmacy very often and are never off public transport

really? I have never used public transport in Ireland and not been near a dr for many years.

and even if it were true? Old folk are vulnerable to all kinds of old age illnesses. And have every right to the medical care they need.
Just as you have.

Graces7

Mad_maxx wrote: »

They don't come close to putting in what they draw down in the vast majority of cases

The UK pension rate is about right, a couple receive less per individual, free travel restricted to local area

Cost of living is much lower there. As a UK citizen who moved to Ireland I can attest to that. Glad your approve but you are wrong. They get fuel help too etc. It works out much the same in reality.

WHch does not back up your ideas!