Is this the end of Democrat front runner Joe Biden?

Biker79

Biker79 wrote: »

He's not as good an orator as Obama...clearly...but he is very good.

He was coherent - which is an indicator of cognitive ability. His speech also had a clear structure - intro, beginning, middle and end that was well-paced over 1.5 hours, without a single mistake.

That suggests that he has good cognitive health.

You're arguing that he's a good orator when he spent that long talking about drinking a glass of water........

dinorebel

Biker79 wrote: »

I'll say it again:

Occasional gaffe.....vs ....outright cognitive collapse.

Trump vs Biden.

Honestly, you cant let Biden into a TV debate with Trump, he'll get destroyed. It will be a complete humiliation for Biden and his family.

And yet its Biden pushing for debates Trumps last word on the subject was that he may not even turn up.

notobtuse

Is Joe Biden’s Cancer Initiative 'charity' little more than a scam for the benefit of funds and fun for his friends?

Apparently the Cancer Initiative raised $4.8 million over two years in operation for 2017 & 2018 according to tax forms, and spent nearly $4.8 million. But a little more than $3 million of that spending went to salaries, compensation, and benefits. So, $1.7 million went to other expenses, but the bulk of those other expenses, around $700,000, was spent on conferences, conventions, and meetings. Seems it didn’t provide a single grant to any other group or foundation during that 2-year period.

Remember when the media was all over Trump and his charities ad nauseum for months? I bet you won’t even hear a peep out of the mainstream media over this. Isn’t it funny that when it comes to democrats the media’s curiosity and journalistic integrity seems to go on vacation… probably to those same exotic locations that Biden’s charity conferences are held.

Bowlardo

What pisses me off is that the forces Hillary on us when everyone knew she was a shot person.
If Bernie had a of for the chance that time he might have had a chance but he is maybe far too socialist for the old USA
Trump is a sexist racists prick but he hasn't started any wars (Hillary would have) but I really feel the democrats are going to lose the presidency again .

Biker79

Deleted User wrote: »

You're arguing that he's a good orator when he spent that long talking about drinking a glass of water........

Trolling the media. They suggested his health was deteriorating based on a previous episode when drinking a glass of water.

So, he drew it out to mock them, and show them is health was fine.

Make sense?

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

His rant about the Ramp and the glass of water took him 1798 words , as a reference the Gettysburg address was a total of 272 words.

Being able to spew words out endlessly does not an orator make. Nor is it an indicator of cognitive ability.

Talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome. He held the rally for supporters, not journalists. The people at the rally loved it. That was part of what they were looking for… Trump’s unique humor. That some people counted the number of words about the ramp and water just shows how deranged some people are. And that some people think it's important might be just as troubling. Maybe someone should count Biden's 'ums, ahs, and ehs" in his next vlog from his basement bunker.

Quin_Dub

Biker79 wrote: »

He's not as good an orator as Obama...clearly...but he is very good.

He was coherent - which is an indicator of cognitive ability. His speech also had a clear structure - intro, beginning, middle and end that was well-paced over 1.5 hours, without a single mistake.

That suggests that he has good cognitive health.

No , no it didn't.

It was a rambling incoherant bar-stool rant about all the wrongs done to him.
Nor was it well paced - 1800 words to explain/justify why he looked more than a little dodgy walking down a ramp - Most of which were directly contradicted by Video footage and reality. Once he stopped talking about his favourite topic (himself) he jumped back and forth between topics and trains of thought.

He also makes lots of errors, he just never stops to correct himself , he just drives on as if it never happened , making it appear to some that he hasn't stumbled

As I said , the ability to spew endless verbal diarrhea seemingly without error isn't actually a good thing.

Cognitive impairment manifests itself in many different ways - like for example

Pressured speech is not a disease or disorder by itself. Rather, it is a symptom of an underlying disorder. There are many potential causes of pressured speech, including schizophrenia, some forms of anxiety, and bipolar disorder.

In all these cases, pressured speech may present with some or all of the following:

• rapid speech that does not pause for others to speak
• disorganized thoughts expressed through words
• loud speech that is above a normal volume for the situation
• speaking about numerous ideas at once
• talking about inappropriate things at work, school, home, or in the community
• including jokes or particular rhythms in speech
• speaking with a sense of urgency
• not being able to speak fast enough to keep up with thoughts

People with bipolar disorder experience cycles of mania and depressive moods. How quickly an individual cycles through the moods varies from person to person. Pressured speech is a symptom of bipolar disorder that occurs during a period of mania.

Additional symptoms during a period of mania may include:

• inflated self-worth or delusions of grandeur
• reckless or risky behavior
• decreased need or ability to sleep
• elevated mood
• exaggerated optimism
• feeling anxious or jittery
• inability to focus
• restlessness

Not for a moment suggesting that Trump is suffering from Bipolar disorder , just making the point that just because someone is forgetful or stumbles over their words sometimes doesn't automatically mean that they are mentally ill.

Equally , just because they apparently don't do that it doesn't mean they aren't.

Biker79

dinorebel wrote: »

And yet its Biden pushing for debates Trumps last word on the subject was that he may not even turn up.

If I were Trump, I wouldn't relish humiliating a senile person in front of a national audience, so I would be reluctant to engage him in a debate on that basis.

Overheal

Biker79 wrote: »

Trolling the media. They suggested his health was deteriorating based on a previous episode when drinking a glass of water.

So, he drew it out to mock them, and show them is health was fine.

Make sense?

Yes he “trolled the media good” demonstrating for them and everyone else how personally offended he was at being ridiculed for his cognitive decline that he spend over a tenth of his entire 90 minute slam poetry session talking about #WaterGait

Yeah that really showed the media what for! I bet they will never bring it up again :rolleyes:

Biker79

Biker79 wrote: »

Trolling the media. They suggested his health was deteriorating based on a previous episode when drinking a glass of water.

So, he drew it out to mock them, and show them is health was fine.

Make sense?

A good orator would either refer to it in a single line or simply ignore it. Drawing it out just comes across like a moron has been put in the white house.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A good orator would either refer to it in a single line or simply ignore it. Drawing it out just comes across like a moron has been put in the white house.

Could have said nothing and just entered onto the stage and drank the glass before he ever started the speech and everyone would have got it. Instead he let his insecurities fuel the hot air from his mouth.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Could have said nothing and just entered onto the stage and drank the glass before he ever started the speech and everyone would have got it. Instead he let his insecurities fuel the hot air from his mouth.

You must be a master orator....

Quin_Dub

Biker79 wrote: »

If I were Trump, I wouldn't relish humiliating a senile person in front of a national audience, so I would be reluctant to engage him in a debate on that basis.

Trump thinking about the feelings of anyone but himself would be a 1st.

Given the absolute hammering that he's been getting in the polls recently Trump has now started to push for more debates but only if he can pick the venue and the moderator. He's asked Rudi Guiliani to organise them

He clearly thinks that if he can control the environment in a debate he might win back some points.

Biden quite rightly is having none of it and is sticking to the agreed 3 Debates run by the Election commission.

Generally speaking , only the person with ground to make up seeks more debates as they feel they need the chance to land a punch.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

Talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome. He held the rally for supporters, not journalists. The people at the rally loved it. That was part of what they were looking for… Trump’s unique humor. That some people counted the number of words about the ramp and water just shows how deranged some people are. And that some people think it's important might be just as troubling. Maybe someone should count Biden's 'ums, ahs, and ehs" in his next vlog from his basement bunker.

I suggest you research the Streisand Effect.

People are still talking about because they know it annoys him.

How do they know it annoys him? He hasn't stopped justifying and/or explaining it since.

It's the same as court cases against Bolton and now his niece - He was never going to win the Bolton case and he has even less of a chance winning the case against his Niece.

But he still has to make a big deal out of it , draw even more attention to it , make everyone talk about it.

And when he loses like he did against Bolton and as he will against his niece all it does is make him look pathetic and weak.

Toothless impotent attempts to stop people talking about him and he's made those failure public.

Biker79

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Trump thinking about the feelings of anyone but himself would be a 1st.

Given the absolute hammering that he's been getting in the polls recently Trump has now started to push for more debates but only if he can pick the venue and the moderator. He's asked Rudi Guiliani to organise them

He clearly thinks that if he can control the environment in a debate he might win back some points.

Biden quite rightly is having none of it and is sticking to the agreed 3 Debates run by the Election commission.

Generally speaking , only the person with ground to make up seeks more debates as they feel they need the chance to land a punch.

There's nothing clear about it. The mainstream media is mostly anti-trump, so it makes sense to ensure whoever moderates/ hosts will provide a platform for a balanced debate.

notobtuse

Biker79 wrote: »

There's nothing clear about it. The mainstream media is mostly anti-trump, so it makes sense to ensure whoever moderates/ hosts will provide a platform for a balanced debate.

Trump should demand the regular biased news sources cannot moderate… CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS and even FOX NEWS. He should demand the most neutral moderatos from the likes of CSPAN, Reuters and Associated Press.

Biden will probably protest because he knows it will be a 2 debates pro Dem and 1 debate pro Rep (but that pro Rep entity will work hard to try and prove their balanced and in turn be even tougher on the Rep).

Tell me how

notobtuse wrote: »

Trump should demand the regular biased news sources cannot moderate… CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS and even FOX NEWS. He should demand the most neutral moderatos from the likes of CSPAN, Reuters and Associated Press.

Biden will probably protest because he knows it will be a 2 debates pro Dem and 1 debate pro Rep (but that pro Rep entity will work hard to try and prove their balanced and in turn be even tougher on the Rep).

Lol

rossie1977

Biker79 wrote: »

I'll say it again:

Occasional gaffe.....vs ....outright cognitive collapse.

Trump vs Biden.

Honestly, you cant let Biden into a TV debate with Trump, he'll get destroyed. It will be a complete humiliation for Biden and his family.

How many televised Democratic debates past 12 months and Biden was fine. In fact he held his own against Sanders, Warren and Harris..far superior debaters than Trump

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

Trump should demand the regular biased news sources cannot moderate… CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS and even FOX NEWS. He should demand the most neutral moderatos from the likes of CSPAN, Reuters and Associated Press.

Biden will probably protest because he knows it will be a 2 debates pro Dem and 1 debate pro Rep (but that pro Rep entity will work hard to try and prove their balanced and in turn be even tougher on the Rep).

What evidence is there about anything in Trumps entire life to indicate that what he wants is "fairness and neutrality"?

What he wants is a hometown crowd with a hometown ref so he can score cheap points.

Don't get me wrong - Any politician would like to skew things their way given the opportunity , but to suggest that Trump is seeking fairness is just ridiculous.

Tell me how

Democrats have learned at least one lesson since 2016.

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1275876391389728768

notobtuse

rossie1977 wrote: »

How many televised Democratic debates past 12 months and Biden was fine. In fact he held his own against Sanders, Warren and Harris..far superior debaters than Trump

That first debate Harris tore Biden to shreds. The DNC and their media handmaidens would not accept that happening again so they treated Biden with kid gloves in the debates after that.

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

What evidence is there about anything in Trumps entire life to indicate that what he wants is "fairness and neutrality"?

What he wants is a hometown crowd with a hometown ref so he can score cheap points.

Don't get me wrong - Any politician would like to skew things their way given the opportunity , but to suggest that Trump is seeking fairness is just ridiculous.

I'm sure he would want moderators more favorable to him, but fairness and neutrality is the most he can hope for. Even Fox News, now under control by Murdoch's liberal son, has turned against him. So has the Drudge Report which rumors are out and about that Matt Drudge sold it.

Sand

Tell me how wrote: »

I wouldn't say I 'hate' Trump but I dislike him pretty intensely because (but not limited to)

• He is uncaring about the natural resources on the planet and the need to presrve them.
• He is misogynistic.
• He is rude.
• He is insensitive.
• He is selfish.
• He has taken part in illegal activities.
• He is making the world a less safer place.
• He is undermining an office and a country which has huge influence in the world.
• He has grossly mismanaged the Covid-19 pandemic.
• He lies.
• He sets a bad example.

Now, please tell me which of these isn't true and why, if they are true, I am a simpleton for disliking him?

How were your views of George Bush different?

Tell me how

Sand wrote: »

How were your views of George Bush different?

I didn't rate him hugely either. But Trump has made him look almost like an impressive leader and diplomat such is his incompetence.
The Bush administration was more interesting for those in the administration pulling strings than for the actions of Bush himself.

ollkiller

notobtuse wrote: »

Talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome. He held the rally for supporters, not journalists. The people at the rally loved it. That was part of what they were looking for… Trump’s unique humor. That some people counted the number of words about the ramp and water just shows how deranged some people are. And that some people think it's important might be just as troubling. Maybe someone should count Biden's 'ums, ahs, and ehs" in his next vlog from his basement bunker.

I have to ask. Do you think Donald Trum was correct or incorrect in holding a rally during the Covid-19 pandemic?

Sand

Tell me how wrote: »

I didn't rate him hugely either. But Trump has made him look almost like an impressive leader and diplomat such is his incompetence.
The Bush administration was more interesting for those in the administration pulling strings than for the actions of Bush himself.

My point is you probably viewed Bush as evil incarnate. Because that was the zeitgeist then. Same with Trump now. Same with the next media driven narrative.

For all the talk of fake news, objective reality doesn't exist anymore. Why shouldn't politicians be as cynical as we are?

ohnonotgmail

Sand wrote: »

My point is you probably viewed Bush as evil incarnate. Because that was the zeitgeist then. Same with Trump now. Same with the next media driven narrative.

For all the talk of fake news, objective reality doesn't exist anymore. Why shouldn't politicians be as cynical as we are?

we didnt know how good we had it with Bush.

ollkiller

Also as someone who in their formative years had a grandmother living in the family home who had a 10 year descent into dementia and alzheimer's no way would I describe Trump or Biden anywhere near that spectrum.

Jesus I wish that nonsense, along with bulls**t about ramps and how you drink a glass of water would feck off. Takes away from real issues affecting real people and how a president through policy can affect positive change to address those issues.

notobtuse

ollkiller wrote: »

I have to ask. Do you think Donald Trum was correct or incorrect in holding a rally during the Covid-19 pandemic?

I wouldn't have gone as I fall into the high risk category. But Trump has let the decision on gatherings mostly up the the governors of each state. And since it appears the media has no problem with massive protests and the state decided it was okay... why not?

Did you condemn the massive protests?

ohnonotgmail

ollkiller wrote: »

Also as someone who in their formative years had a grandmother living in the family home who had a 10 year descent into dementia and alzheimer's no way would I describe Trump or Biden anywhere near that spectrum.

Jesus I wish that nonsense, along with bulls**t about ramps and how you drink a glass of water would feck off. Takes away from real issues affecting real people and how a president through policy can affect positive change to address those issues.

as somebody with firsthand experience of dementia i completely agree