Is this the end of Democrat front runner Joe Biden?

Biker79

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

we didnt know how good we had it with Bush.

Truth is...there is not much difference between any GOP candidate.

Personality/ character of a president has little to do with their policies and achievements. You could argue, actually, the office is mostly ceremonial...for the theatre of politics.

rossie1977

notobtuse wrote: »

That first debate Harris tore Biden to shreds. The DNC and their media handmaidens would not accept that happening again so they treated Biden with kid gloves in the debates after that.

You would think the DNC would do a better job getting their supposed networks to focus more on Biden then.

For all the supposed hate the media has for Trump its wall to wall Trump coverage. Barely anything on Biden

odyssey06

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

we didnt know how good we had it with Bush.

Twice!

notobtuse

ollkiller wrote: »

Also as someone who in their formative years had a grandmother living in the family home who had a 10 year descent into dementia and alzheimer's no way would I describe Trump or Biden anywhere near that spectrum.

Jesus I wish that nonsense, along with bulls**t about ramps and how you drink a glass of water would feck off. Takes away from real issues affecting real people and how a president through policy can affect positive change to address those issues.

And we took care of the wife's mother who developed dementia in her mid 50's, until it got so bad the doctors recommended she needed to be put in a nursing home. I'd say what Biden is displaying is quite similar to the early stages of dementia my mother-in-law displayed.

Sand

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

we didnt know how good we had it with Bush.

Bush accomplished policy goals. His administration thrust the US into a war of choice in Iraq for 8 years which cost roughly 4,000 American lives and 800 billion dollars. For no conceivable benefit to Americans. I'll put my hand up here and admit I thought at least Iraqis would benefit from the removal of Iraqi dictatorship, but even that was a pipe-dream. Absent a dictatorship to hold them down, the Iraqi's busily slaughtered each other in ethnic conflicts.

By comparison, Trump cant get a wall built (25 billion dollars and no lives lost) which would immensely benefit Americans. Not least the Americans paid to build it.

That's why I cannot understand the hysteria about Trump. The guy has been completely ineffectual. The US may as well have been under a caretaker government for the past 4 years.

ohnonotgmail

Biker79 wrote: »

Truth is...there is not much difference between any GOP candidate.

Personality/ character of a president has little to do with their policies and achievements. You could argue, actually, the office is mostly ceremonial...for the theatre of politics.

trump has a terrible personality and has been a terrible president spreading hatred and division whenever he opens his mouth. there are no positives with the man

ohnonotgmail

Sand wrote: »

Bush accomplished policy goals. His administration thrust the US into a war of choice in Iraq for 8 years which cost roughly 4,000 American lives and 800 billion dollars. For no conceivable benefit to Americans. I'll put my hand up here and admit I thought at least Iraqis would benefit from the removal of Iraqi dictatorship, but even that was a pipe-dream. Absent a dictatorship to hold them down, the Iraqi's busily slaughtered each other in ethnic conflicts.

By comparison, Trump cant get a wall built (25 billion dollars and no lives lost) which would immensely benefit Americans. Not least the Americans paid to build it.

That's why I cannot understand the hysteria about Trump. The guy has been completely ineffectual. The US may as well have been under a caretaker government for the past 4 years.

120,000 americans have died.

notobtuse

rossie1977 wrote: »

You would think the DNC would do a better job getting their supposed networks to focus more on Biden then.

For all the supposed hate the media has for Trump its wall to wall Trump coverage. Barely anything on Biden

Wall to wall 95%-100% negative coverage of Trump. That makes a huuuuuge difference. And what does the media have to report on Biden? Lousy and sometimes incoherent vlogs from his basement bunker?

Tell me how

Sand wrote: »

My point is you probably viewed Bush as evil incarnate. Because that was the zeitgeist then. Same with Trump now. Same with the next media driven narrative.

For all the talk of fake news, objective reality doesn't exist anymore. Why shouldn't politicians be as cynical as we are?

Well, if you want to adopt a media narrative as your position then that's your choice.

I've never done that. I have had a keen interest in current affairs, politics, and social experiences for the last 20 years and have never adopted a position because someone else said I should.

Bush was demonstrably weak in a lot of ways and after the Gulf War debacle, I never expected he would beat John Kerry, but he did (quite possibly because of his brother).

But people complaining about the way Trump is viewed seem to ignore the fact of just how much of what he says and does is in the public eye. Just because some media outlets dislike him, in no way suggests that that is why many others do so as well. Correlation does not equal causation.

Tell me how

notobtuse wrote: »

Wall to wall 95%-100% negative coverage of Trump. That makes a huuuuuge difference. And what does the media have to report on Biden? Lousy and sometimes incoherent vlogs from his basement bunker?

Why don't you give us three distinct stories from his Presidency which deserve praise which were not covered by the press.

He made the bed for his negative coverage, he has to lie on it.

Sand

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

120,000 americans have died.

From COVID 19. US deaths are a consequence of a refusal to control borders.

Sand

Tell me how wrote: »

Well, if you want to adopt a media narrative as your position then that's your choice.

I've never done that. I have had a keen interest in current affairs, politics, and social experiences for the last 20 years and have never adopted a position because someone else said I should.

Have you ever met anyone who thinks their deeply held political opinions are not their own? It might be chicken and egg, but we are shaped by the media we consume.

Biker79

Sand wrote: »

My point is you probably viewed Bush as evil incarnate. Because that was the zeitgeist then. Same with Trump now. Same with the next media driven narrative.

For all the talk of fake news, objective reality doesn't exist anymore. Why shouldn't politicians be as cynical as we are?

It's critical for mainstream media to create this narrative of politicians being the devil incarnate. They need it to drive reader/ viewer engagement.

Politicians need the media to keep their profiles high, at least for a while....but the media need them more, the balance is not weighted in their favour.

Without Trump as the Devil himself and the consequent Trump Derangement Syndrome amongst the virtue signalling masses, the NY Times would probably have gone under at this point. Perhaps CNN too.

ollkiller

notobtuse wrote: »

I wouldn't have gone as I fall into the high risk category. But Trump has let the decision on gatherings mostly up the the governors of each state. And since it appears the media has no problem with massive protests and the state decided it was okay... why not?

Did you condemn the massive protests?

Do I condemn the protests during a pandemic. Yes. Simple reason they are right in their grievances but there is a correct time to act. During a pandemic is obviously not the time for any crowd for any reason. If the protest was not during the pandemic I support peaceful legitimate protest. But if said peaceful protest is met with force or violence then anything returned is fair game.

So when you say "why not" are you saying Trump was correct in holding the rally.

ohnonotgmail

Sand wrote: »

From COVID 19. US deaths are a consequence of a refusal to control borders.

they are a consequence of both inaction on the part of the federal government and actions by the federal government that made the situation worse. that is all down to trump.

Tell me how

Sand wrote: »

Have you ever met anyone who thinks their deeply held political opinions are not their own? It might be chicken and egg, but we are shaped by the media we consume.

That presumes people only consume media from a single outlet.
Plus, when the media is only the carrier for someones direct words, then you can't really say the media is the one who created the perception by which people interpret those words.

CtevenSrowder

Sand wrote: »

Bush accomplished policy goals. His administration thrust the US into a war of choice in Iraq for 8 years which cost roughly 4,000 American lives and 800 billion dollars. For no conceivable benefit to Americans. I'll put my hand up here and admit I thought at least Iraqis would benefit from the removal of Iraqi dictatorship, but even that was a pipe-dream. Absent a dictatorship to hold them down, the Iraqi's busily slaughtered each other in ethnic conflicts.

By comparison, Trump cant get a wall built (25 billion dollars and no lives lost) which would immensely benefit Americans. Not least the Americans paid to build it.

That's why I cannot understand the hysteria about Trump. The guy has been completely ineffectual. The US may as well have been under a caretaker government for the past 4 years.

**** me have they spent 25 billion on that wall?

ollkiller

Biker79 wrote: »

It's critical for mainstream media to create this narrative of politicians being the devil incarnate. They need it to drive reader/ viewer engagement.

Politicians need the media to keep their profiles high, and least for a while....but the media need them more, the balance is not weighted in their favour.

Without Trump as the Devil himself, and the consequent Trump Derangement Syndrome amongst the virtue signalling masses, the NY Times would probably have gone under at this point. Perhaps CNN too.

Look the media is a joke at this stage. But the reason I hate Trump is he's inept as a president. He can't get anything done. That for me means he gotta go. And oh he's a totally reprehensible human being. Nearly forgot about that.

Tell me how

Biker79 wrote: »

It's critical for mainstream media to create this narrative of politicians being the devil incarnate. They need it to drive reader/ viewer engagement.

Politicians need the media to keep their profiles high, and least for a while....but the media need them more, the balance is not weighted in their favour.

Without Trump as the Devil himself, and the consequent Trump Derangement Syndrome amongst the virtue signalling masses, the NY Times would probably have gone under at this point. Perhaps CNN too.

As long as there people on the planet, there are always going to be current affairs, politics, elections, protests.

We can either have the media cover these stories, or allow the events to go on in a secretive manner. I know which scenario I would prefer.

KiKi III

Just read an article in the NY Times about who the voters turning against Trump.

It’s older, white voters who are scared because the coronavirus impacts them most.

Since they’re the most reliable voters, that’s insanely bad news for Trump.

Tell me how

Sand wrote: »

From COVID 19. US deaths are a consequence of a refusal to control borders.

Maybe.

Or maybe as a consequence of poor testing, poor healthcare availability, poor PPE, poor decisions, poor level of willingness to isolate, poor guidance in terms of masks etc.

Covid-19 has exposed all of the above, the next pandemic could originate from within any country and if so, its of little solace to those who get sick that it didn't come in from abroad.

notobtuse

Tell me how wrote: »

Why don't you give us three distinct stories from his Presidency which deserve praise which were not covered by the press.

He made the bed for his negative coverage, he has to lie on it.

Huh? Everything he did was covered by the press... just in a hateful and negative fashion. Heck, even drinking a glass of water was covered six ways from Sunday in a negative way by the press.

Sand

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

**** me have they spent 25 billion on that wall?

Nope - that was the cost (over 5 years) of building a wall. Trump has built little more than a few dozen miles of replacement fencing.

Obama probably has a stronger border policy than Trump. He did after all build those cages they put illegal immigrant children into.

rossie1977

Bush Jr was a terrible president but regardless who was president then the US as a whole would have demanded some kind of revenge so regardless who was in hotseat a firm swift response would have been expected by the population at large.

Had Trump been president in 2001 no doubt in mind he nukes Iran in response.

Sand

Tell me how wrote: »

Maybe.

Or maybe as a consequence of poor testing, poor healthcare availability, poor PPE, poor decisions, poor level of willingness to isolate, poor guidance in terms of masks etc.

Nope. All of that is trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted.

If you prevent exposure (i.e. early international travel ban to and from China or other 'hotspots') you prevent the need for remediation. Only after you decide to expose your citizens to an external pandemic spread by international travel do you need to focus on 'managing' the pandemic internally.

The mental block you are experiencing is that it is impossible to prevent international travel.

Covid-19 has exposed all of the above, the next pandemic could originate from within any country and if so, its of little solace to those who get sick that it didn't come in from abroad.

But it didnt originate from within any country. It originated within a single country. Social distancing works, even at an international level.

Again, what you are struggling against is media narratives.

KiKi III

rossie1977 wrote: »

Bush Jr was a terrible president but regardless who was president then the US as a whole would have demanded some kind of revenge so regardless who was in hotseat a firm swift response would have been expected by the population at large.

Had Trump been president in 2001 no doubt in mind he nukes Iran in response.

Given that I think 13 of the 9/11 attackers were from Saudi, they could have exacted their revenge in that direction... but that wouldn’t have been nearly as profitable.

rossie1977

KiKi III wrote: »

Given that I think 13 of the 9/11 attackers were from Saudi, they could have exacted their revenge in that direction... but that wouldn’t have been nearly as profitable.

Not a chance they attack the Saudis. Trump did nothing when an American citizen was dismembered by the Saudis.

Tell me how

notobtuse wrote: »

Huh? Everything he did was covered by the press... just in a hateful and negative fashion. Heck, even drinking a glass of water was covered six ways from Sunday in a negative way by the press.

Yeah, the Press made him talk about grabbing people by the pu**y, the Press made him make fun of disabled people, the Press made him call other countries sh*tholes, the Press made him salivate over Kim Jong-Un, the Press made him push the Montenegro PM out of his way, the Press made him say that covid-19 was a hoax, the Press made him say that the cases would go from 15 down to zero, the Press made him say that he takes no responsibility at all, the Press made him talk about injecting bleach, the Press made him say that the only had more cases because they were doing more testing, the Press made him say that there were good people on both sides at Charlottesville, the Press made him use phrases associated with aggravating racial tension, the Press made him use Twitter so much, the Press made him Golf more in his first term than Obama did in 8 years, the Press made him pull out of the Paris Agreement, the Press made him pull out of the Iran Nuclear Deal, the Press made him stop funding the WHO, the Press made him meet Putin with no one only russian translators in the room.

The Press! The Press!! The Press!!!

Tell me how

Sand wrote: »

Nope. All of that is trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted.

If you prevent exposure (i.e. early international travel ban to and from China or other 'hotspots') you prevent the need for remediation. Only after you decide to expose your citizens to an external pandemic spread by international travel do you need to focus on 'managing' the pandemic internally.

The mental block you are experiencing is that it is impossible to prevent international travel.



But it didnt originate from within any country. It originated within a single country. Social distancing works, even at an international level.

Again, what you are struggling against is media narratives.

Not sure how you think a refusal to control borders was the reason so.

Sand

rossie1977 wrote: »

Bush Jr was a terrible president but regardless who was president then the US as a whole would have demanded some kind of revenge so regardless who was in hotseat a firm swift response would have been expected by the population at large.

Had Trump been president in 2001 no doubt in mind he nukes Iran in response.

The revenge was the invasion of Afghanistan. Which could and should have been cut short with the killing of Bin Laden at Tora Bora.

The invasion of Iraq was a imperial overreach. A long dreamt of policy by the Washington elite, justified as a preemptive defensive war with the promise that the Iraqis were just like you and me and would establish a western democracy once the evil dictator was removed. I accepted that premise at least. I was wrong.

The invasion of Saudi Arabia would have made more sense as revenge given almost all of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis.