Modern technology which is shït.

degsie

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Those Amazon Alexa speakers and the like. Paying a company money to buy a device that they use to listen in on what you say. What you get in return is to be able to ask for your bland 90’s indie hits playlist on Spotify.

Classic example of the 'Hoover' and 'biro' brigade. If you are going to slag off a piece of tech, at least get the product name right.

slipperyox

modern aircraft that can't get you from London to New York in 3 and a half hours

The high horse brigade

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The best feature of Apple devices these days is their privacy options.

Yeah because Apple is more trustworthy than either Google and Amazon

Wibbs

Zelda Flabby Manicure wrote: »

Anyone you can’t see how brilliantly usefull smart home devices are simply haven’t used them as I’ve seen people say similar and after spending an evening in my house next thing they are looking at buying more.

I have used them, I've even installed them for others and one friend has gone as automated as he can and updates on the regular. Just isn't personally for me. Adds a layer of complexity and costs which leads to more potential faults and costs so that it's more a negative than a positive for me.

I would see this as paranoia on a level that would be borderline needing to talk to someone about it.

Nope, no paranoia on my part. No need for it. I just don't like being used as a dataset by huge corporations with little oversight. When one sees the top heads in Google, Facebook, Apple and others with tape over their personal laptop cameras and mics, are they borderline paranoid too? Plus it can pay to be prudent in areas not immediately obvious. EG on the Watches forums hereabouts and across the web people fire up pics of their watches, some of which are quite valuable. You can download their pic, pull the Exif data from it including GPS location, which if you then throw into google maps will give you their location and house where their fifteen grand Rolex lives. Quite a few burglaries and robberies have happened with that. Ditto for expensive cars.

If nothing else I simply couldn’t be bothered going to the effort of disabling any of this stuff but aside from that you use a lot of usefulness in many apps.

Takes a matter of seconds. Well, to massively reduce your web footprint across all your devices and services would take about five minutes. And other than a GPS app for getting around the actual usefulness of many apps tracking one's location is minimal. Again just for me personally.

As for the "I've nothing to hide" angle. Yep, neither do I, however the vast majority of human rights you and me hold dear came about because a small minority of people started to fight for them under the radar of society, with mass monitoring of the sort we have and worse, more pervasive and intelligent coming, that will become increasingly difficult to the point of impossible. That's not good for society going forward.

Look at China and its social credit system and mass surveillance to back it up. Now Chinese culture from Confucious on sees social compliance as a virtue so it has taken to it, but how many human rights abuses that the government currently oversees will be effectively challenged now? Consider that the dataset that is you couldn't have been assembled twenty years ago. Imagine that in ten or twenty years time.

cnocbui

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The best feature of Apple devices these days is their privacy options.

Like the ones that prevented someone from nicking Jeff Bezos' embarrassing photos and revealing his affair and the one where Apple employees or contractors have been listening to Siri conversations; or the time when strangers were able to listen to siri conversations?

Apple marketing really works. Ironically, if Jeff Bezos had used a Samsung phone and it's Secure Folder for both taking the photos and his private emails, his private stuff would probably still be private.

pburns

Your own electric pump in the boot. I have a couple - in both family cars. Reliable & accurate & you don't have to go searching out broken ones at garage forecourts.

Also got me home with a slow puncture once do I could get wheel mended in my own time rather than changing onto skinny at the side of the road...

Wibbs

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Yeah because Apple is more trustworthy than either Google and Amazon

They're not, but because they became the company more, especially the more nerdy folks who tend to hate Apple, were likely to take to task, they were essentially forced to be more secure on that front, plus with their locked down app environment for their own financial reasons they're more secure than the equivalent Android setup. For the average user of course. Power users can certainly secure Android, but not so much Mr and Mrs O'Citizen who just leave everything on.

Stark wrote: »

No it isn't. Have you ever looked at your history in your Google account? I've found audio recordings in there despite being careful with my permissions. Also the location history is detailed enough to be creepy. As in it records exactly what premises you've been into.

Mine has the cactus and tumbleweed pic. I showed a mate of mine his and he was well shocked. Like you there were a load of audio recordings with a shedload of other details about him.

The high horse brigade

Wibbs wrote: »

They're not, but because they became the company more, especially the more nerdy folks who tend to hate Apple, were likely to take to task, they were essentially forced to be more secure on that front, plus with their locked down app environment for their own financial reasons they're more secure than the equivalent Android setup. For the average user of course. Power users can certainly secure Android, but not so much Mr and Mrs O'Citizen who just leave everything on.

This is a good read https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/apples-hypocritical-defense-data-privacy/581680/

Wibbs

cnocbui wrote: »

Like the ones that prevented someone from nicking Jeff Bezos' embarrassing photos and revealing his affair and the one where Apple employees or contractors have been listening to Siri conversations; or the time when strangers were able to listen to siri conversations?

Maybe, maybe not C. I'm not so sure. Amazon have also been accused of listening in. I suspect all are vulnerable. There was also the major leak of various Hollywood actresses in various stages of in the nip and sexual shenanigans. That was also an Apple hack. I suspect because more of those types use Apple devices so that's what was targeted. It's like the old one about how Apple are less virus prone than Windows. And that's true to some degree. The MacOS is a more secure architecture on a few levels, but it's as much to do with the fact(and certainly was in the past) that there are many many times more Windows PC's in the wild than Apple Macs. If you're going to hack any platform you'll want to hit the majority one.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Yup, as astrofool noted it's likely because Alexa is straight up out there in actively listening that has some concerned, but as AF also said that horse has long bolted.

It only listens when you speak to it and you can opt-out of them listening to what you ask it.

Anyway the listening is to improve the tech, they can’t do much else with the data.

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Yeah because Apple is more trustworthy than either Google and Amazon

They are actually, massively more than google anyway. They point blank refused to unlock phones for the UD government for example.

cnocbui

Zelda Flabby Manicure wrote: »

It only listens when you speak to it.

It's always listening so it can respond if it thinks it hears the word 'Alexa'.

I once had a conversation with someone who worked for a foreign governments military SIGINT. He told me that everyone had to remove the battery from their phones before entering meetings - powered off not being good enough - or if the battery was not removable - they had to leave the phone outside.

If you are old, you might have heard of a rumoured 'infinity phone' for the same sort of thing with landlines.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Yeah because Apple is more trustworthy than either Google and Amazon

Apple largely sells hardware. So it doesn’t have the business model of google or amazon.

Not that I care either way, I have an iPhone but use google apps all the time.

Wibbs

Zelda Flabby Manicure wrote: »

It only listens when you speak to it.

I've got some magic beans you may be interested in. But let's say it only listens when you wake it... It's not just the AI listening.

Atoms for Peace

bluewolf wrote: »

It's great telling the echo to turn off the lights when snug in bed. Don't wanna get back out!
100% pro automation laziness, plenty else to be doing

You could just do a Mr. Bean and shoot out the bulb with a pellet gun.

mrcheez

The tide is inevitability moving toward integration of automation in everything.

You can either embrace it or march with your tinfoil hat into a remote forest and throw away your phone.

It will be nigh on impossible to buy a house or car or appliance without IoT integration.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

cnocbui wrote: »

It's always listening so it can respond if it thinks it hears the word 'Alexa'.

It’s not transmitting anything until after you say Hey Alexa. That’s why you have to say it.

Wibbs wrote: »

I've got some magic beans you may be interested in. But let's say it only listens when you wake it... It's not just the AI listening.

Apple too. I think the companies should have been clearer about that but if it’s only listening after the key phrase then there’s no real threat to privacy.

mrcheez

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It’s not transmitting anything until after you say Hey Alexa. That’s why you have to say it.

Plus you can actually listen back to every recording Alexa has on you via the app.

Atoms for Peace

mrcheez wrote: »

The tide is inevitability moving toward integration of automation in everything.

You can either embrace it or march with your tinfoil hat into a remote forest and throw away your phone.

It will be nigh on impossible to buy a house or car without IoT integration.

Or just take a sensible balanced approach.

mrcheez

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Or just take a sensible balanced approach.

Such as? You mean don't buy a house/car/appliance?

As I said you won't be able to avoid it.

Wibbs

mrcheez wrote: »

Such as? You mean don't buy a house/car/appliance?

As I said you won't be able to avoid it.

Or - and here's a novel idea - you can simply switch it off.

alta stare

mrcheez wrote: »

The tide is inevitability moving toward integration of automation in everything.

You can either embrace it or march with your tinfoil hat into a remote forest and throw away your phone.

It will be nigh on impossible to buy a house or car or appliance without IoT integration.

Yeah i think you are correct. Our future is being shaped by our desire to have everything done by something else.

I actually have a google home and i like it. I thought about getting smart lights and what not but i decided against it as to be fair it is too much hassle if something goes wrong. Im not a technofobe either. I work with security systems so i know my way around technical things but i just think things are going to end up in a place where it just ruins who we are. We will loose the ability or desire to actually want to do the small things in life...as in turn on our own lights.....manually.

Also there are alot of people who are using iot and are leaving their homes wide open for cyber attack and phishing and the likes. A simple thing like smart heating/lights/appliances could cause alot of problems if comprised on a home network.

mrcheez

Wibbs wrote: »

Or - and here's a novel idea - you can simply switch it off.

Hate to tell you this, but that tin foil hat won't keep you very warm when your automated heating system ceases to work because it's no longer connected.

We want to inform the public that websites use cookies. Result: every mother-flipping website gives you a pop-up saying "this website uses cookies".

Its like having a sticker on cars that says "this car uses wheels".

Wibbs

mrcheez wrote: »

Hate to tell you this, but that tin foil hat won't keep you very warm when your automated heating system ceases to work because it's no longer connected.

None of us have to install such a setup. Non plugged in systems will still be available for the foreseeable future. Hell, talk of the automated home has been around since the 50's and even before. Never mind that the majority of the world's population live in societies without the infrastructure for such things so the companies will cater to the non automated homes for a long enough time yet.

So you want to live in the House of the Future(tm), work away Ted, no skin off my nose, but why do you appear so tetchy about all this? Just because you get a nerdgasm because you can switch on your porch light from your watch doesn't mean everybody has to.

mrcheez

alta stare wrote: »

Yeah i think you are correct. Our future is being shaped by our desire to have everything done by something else.

I actually have a google home and i like it. I thought about getting smart lights and what not but i decided against it as to be fair it is too much hassle if something goes wrong.

You can still control the lights manually via the light switch if you want.

The idea is that the switch is always on but switched off internally. The electricity usage while on standby is about 40c per annum.

Its worth trying one out but once you get one you'll inevitably want to do the rest.

E.g. I was tidying up the kitchen this morning, hands full of dirty dishes, and I was able to check on Sky News, then find out what the weather was going to be like, and switch off the upstairs lights (which I'd forgotten to turn off), all while filling the dishwasher and scrubbing out the cupboards.

Also set a few reminders for other chores I thought of at the time. Very handy.

mrcheez

Wibbs wrote: »

None of us have to install such a setup. Non plugged in systems will still be available for the foreseeable future. Hell, talk of the automated home has been around since the 50's and even before. Never mind that the majority of the world's population live in societies without the infrastructure for such things so the companies will cater to the non automated homes for a long enough time yet.

So you want to live in the House of the Future(tm), work away Ted, no skin off my nose, but why do you appear so tetchy about all this? Just because you get a nerdgasm because you can switch on your porch light from your watch doesn't mean everybody has to.

My point is that IoT integration is inevitable so no point trying to avoid it.

Automation never took off in the 50s since the tech wasn't around but I guarantee that in 5-10 years it will be built into everything.

Everyone who starts down the path of getting an Echo or Home realises how handy they are and this signals the beginnings of mass adoption which leads to automatic integration into everything.

I find this thread to be a hilarious throwback to a decade ago.

alta stare

mrcheez wrote: »

You can still control the lights manually via the light switch if you want.

The idea is that the switch is always on but switched off internally. The electricity usage while on standby is about 40c per annum.

Its worth trying one out but once you get one you'll inevitably want to do the rest.

E.g. I was tidying up the kitchen this morning, hands full of dirty dishes, and I was able to check on Sky News, then find out what the weather was going to be like, and switch off the upstairs lights (which I'd forgotten to turn off), all while filling the dishwasher and scrubbing out the cupboards.

Also set a few reminders for other chores I thought of at the time. Very handy.

Dont get me wrong i think iot can be a good addition to a house but again some people are comprising themselves in installing any iot so i think we should really know what we are at before we start automating everything in our homes.

No i no longer am interested now in automating my lights. Same with my heating or appliances.

Just a curious question? Have you taken the steps to protect your devices/house from outside interference?

4068ac1elhodqr

mrcheez wrote: »

My point is that IoT integration is inevitable so no point trying to avoid it.
Automation never took off in the 50s since the tech wasn't around but I guarantee that in 5-10 years it will be built into everything.
Everyone who starts down the path of getting an Echo or Home realises how handy they are and this signals the beginnings of mass adoption which leads to automatic integration into everything.
I find this thread to be a hilarious throwback to a decade ago.

Global IoT devices overtook Celluar in 2018, around 29 billion connected devices are forecast by 2022, of which around 18 billion will be related to IoT. Trillions of ioT addresses are theoretically possible.

You're right about mass adoption also, wireless transactions (another 'tracker') are increasing exponentially, soon cafes may well refuse cash.

Add to the mix 5G+ connections, and Wave2/3 of auto. Essentially every object from your fridge, kettle, streetlight, car and front door will know what you're doing.

Musk also preached the dangers of AI, all while aiming to launch Starlink, a plan to surround Earth with 12,000 high-speed internet satellites.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

I have used them, I've even installed them for others and one friend has gone as automated as he can and updates on the regular. Just isn't personally for me. Adds a layer of complexity and costs which leads to more potential faults and costs so that it's more a negative than a positive for me.

Nope, no paranoia on my part. No need for it. I just don't like being used as a dataset by huge corporations with little oversight. When one sees the top heads in Google, Facebook, Apple and others with tape over their personal laptop cameras and mics, are they borderline paranoid too? Plus it can pay to be prudent in areas not immediately obvious. EG on the Watches forums hereabouts and across the web people fire up pics of their watches, some of which are quite valuable. You can download their pic, pull the Exif data from it including GPS location, which if you then throw into google maps will give you their location and house where their fifteen grand Rolex lives. Quite a few burglaries and robberies have happened with that. Ditto for expensive cars.

Urban legends

Wibbs wrote: »

Takes a matter of seconds. Well, to massively reduce your web footprint across all your devices and services would take about five minutes. And other than a GPS app for getting around the actual usefulness of many apps tracking one's location is minimal. Again just for me personally.

Not only do I not care about apps knowing my location I want many of them to know it. I regularly post my location on FB, I want to open Apple/google maps and it to know my location instantly, I want weather apps to know my location, I want find my iPhone to know the location of all my Apple devices, if using IFTTT with smart devices it can do stuff based on your location (for example turn on lights automatically as you approach home) etc etc.

Wibbs wrote: »

As for the "I've nothing to hide" angle. Yep, neither do I, however the vast majority of human rights you and me hold dear came about because a small minority of people started to fight for them under the radar of society, with mass monitoring of the sort we have and worse, more pervasive and intelligent coming, that will become increasingly difficult to the point of impossible. That's not good for society going forward. .

Trying to compare location services on devices to “human rights” is just an impossible leap, honestly it’s even beyond tin foil hat level.

alta stare wrote: »

Just a curious question? Have you taken the steps to protect your devices/house from outside interference?

What “interference” are you afraid off? These devices are heavily secured out of the box, don’t know where the scaremongering is coming from.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

mrcheez wrote: »

My point is that IoT integration is inevitable so no point trying to avoid it.

Automation never took off in the 50s since the tech wasn't around but I guarantee that in 5-10 years it will be built into everything.

Everyone who starts down the path of getting an Echo or Home realises how handy they are and this signals the beginnings of mass adoption which leads to automatic integration into everything.

I find this thread to be a hilarious throwback to a decade ago.

Ooh, a decade ago.

I’m fairly wired up but it’s a fairly minor convince in most cases. However plenty of people won’t automate their house and it will work fine for them.