Ireland's asylum hotel monthly bill tops €3.54m

SchrodingersCat

punisher5112 wrote: »

The numbers speak for themselves to be honest.

I take it you cant back up your statement with any source of evidence.

punisher5112

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

I take it you cant back up your statement with any source of evidence.

60% of Africans are unemployed.

SchrodingersCat

This is the problem with this thread.

If people cannot back up their statements with sources of proof from reputable sources, we cannot have a logical debate. Instead, its just emotional people spouting made up bull**** and misrepresenting facts. This isnt getting us anywhere and we are no closer to an educated conclusion.

Kivaro

You mean, like when you said this:

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat
With regards to your later point, the majority of asylum applicants in Ireland are rejected and deported.

And I said this:

Kivaro wrote: »

Since you are stating this as a fact, could you please provide the corroborating evidence that the majority of the rejected asylum applicants in Ireland are deported.

Which resulted in this:

enricoh

cloudatlas wrote: »

Many mortgages are teetering in arrears. The flaw in the system is that the governments plan to tackle homelessness ‘rebuilding Ireland’ relies on the private sector. These companies aren’t interested in building accommodation for low income families, these families are then forced into the higher priced private rental sector where they are at risk of being evicted due to increasing rents or landlords who want to sell. Social housing needs to be built. There is enough land to build on but the governments ideology favours the private sector and local authorities don’t want to approve social housing as the locals will complain about council flats near them and the county counsellors are afraid that they won’t be elected if they go against the people. Majority who are being made homeless are coming from the private rental sector. Solution : the government has to force through plans for social housing, tax empty houses or if no response from landlord compulsory re purchase orders. This can be fixed by the government. Refugees are straw men in all this.

Foreign nationals make up 33% of dublins homeless list.
Asylum seeker numbers are up 40% this year n thats before brexit sends even more over.
Both huge percentages but straw men you reckon.

cloudatlas

enricoh wrote: »

Foreign nationals make up 33% of dublins homeless list.
Asylum seeker numbers are up 40% this year n thats before brexit sends even more over.
Both huge percentages but straw men you reckon.

Strawmen because people are stating that they are causing the homeless crisis they aren't. Government policy is causing the homeless crisis. Direct provision is set up to make sure that these people fail, they get **** fatty fast food, no money to live on and they are denied education in the hope that they will deter others from coming but that's not working so we need to start treating them like human beings.

Kivaro

cloudatlas wrote: »

Direct provision is set up to make sure that these people fail, they get **** fatty fast food, no money to live on and they are denied education in the hope that they will deter others from coming but that's not working so we need to start treating them like human beings.

Complete and utter fabrication.
Asylum seekers are even currently allowed to work in Ireland to supplement the money that Irish workers are giving them. The Irish people are turning over backwards for them, and the reality is that the overwhelming vast majority of asylum seekers are not genuine. And some of those who have lied on their asylum applications are even allowed to stay in Ireland by being granted leave to remain by the government.

enricoh

cloudatlas wrote: »

Strawmen because people are stating that they are causing the homeless crisis they aren't. Government policy is causing the homeless crisis. Direct provision is set up to make sure that these people fail, they get **** fatty fast food, no money to live on and they are denied education in the hope that they will deter others from coming but that's not working so we need to start treating them like human beings.

Well, they are certainly causing 1/3 of the issue in dublin.
The legit ones are processed in a few months, the spoofers that have been refused asylum, do a few appeals, after a few years penance are allowed stay here n full access to social welfare.
Our welfare benefits are world class and are a magnet.
Should we give everyone that arrives full dole n the keys of a 3 bed semi on day one? Yeah, direct provision is so bad that hundreds that are given leave to remain wont move out (bedblockers if you will). No nasty bills like esb, wifi etc in direct provision n get 3 square meals n full dole. Great job!

cloudatlas

Kivaro wrote: »

Complete and utter fabrication.
Asylum seekers are even currently allowed to work in Ireland to supplement the money that Irish workers are giving them. The Irish people are turning over backwards for them, and the reality is that the overwhelming vast majority of asylum seekers are not genuine. And some of those who have lied on their asylum applications are even allowed to stay in Ireland by being granted leave to remain by the government.

How do you know that. Where's your proof?

Kivaro

cloudatlas wrote: »

How do you know that. Where's your proof?

Ellie Kisyombe. Lied through her teeth in her Irish asylum application:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ellie-kisyombe-to-run-in-elections-after-correcting-backstory-party-says-1.3881481
She carried out one of the usual scams by applying for asylum in Britain first, and then headed to Dublin airport after a few trips "home" to apply for asylum here.
Even when her scam was exposed by a non-Irish newspaper i.e. the Sunday Times (because no way would an Irish media outlet publish any negativity about asylum seekers), she was still given leave to remain: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/ellie-kisyombe-granted-leave-to-remain-in-ireland-1.3964187

Even when asylum applications are rejected, and after multiple appeals (paid for by Irish workers), they are usually then given leave to remain.
At this stage, even the dogs on the streets of Lagos know how easy it is to scam the asylum process in Ireland.

cloudatlas

Kivaro wrote: »

Ellie Kisyombe. Lied through her teeth in her Irish asylum application:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ellie-kisyombe-to-run-in-elections-after-correcting-backstory-party-says-1.3881481
She carried out one of the usual scams by applying for asylum in Britain first, and then headed to Dublin airport after a few trips "home" to apply for asylum here.
Even when her scam was exposed by a non-Irish newspaper i.e. the Sunday Times (because no way would an Irish media outlet publish any negativity about asylum seekers), she was still given leave to remain: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/ellie-kisyombe-granted-leave-to-remain-in-ireland-1.3964187

Even when asylum applications are rejected, and after multiple appeals (paid for by Irish workers), they are usually then given leave to remain.
At this stage, even the dogs on the streets of Lagos know how easy it is to scam the asylum process in Ireland.

One example besides I'm sure Malawi is a lovely place to stay in, I think I've heard of her she started the 'Our table' initiative that has provided a way for asylum seekers to connect with the Irish community, get the nutritious food that they are denied in direct provision, it also provides jobs. Sounds like she actually gives a **** about integrating into Irish life and actually doing something to make a change and a difference in people's lives, fair play to her.

punisher5112

Wasn't there an investigation done some years back and they found quite a lot working as taxi drivers. They would have say an e class merc running 24 hours with numerous drivers....

SchrodingersCat

Kivaro wrote: »

You mean, like when you said this:
And I said this:
Which resulted in this:

The 70% statistic is taken from the International Protection Office. While you are reminiscing, do you want to explain this statistic that you gave.

Kivaro wrote: »

you hear the staggering statistic that 60% of African adults in Ireland are unemployed, then it begs far deeper questions on why this is happening e.g. they have no need to work due to the very generous welfare state that exists in this country
.....
From http://www.ucd.ie/geary/static/publi...rywp201816.pdf

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Thanks for that. I read your source and in particular, the conclusion, where the following is summarised:

This paper set out to explore why African immigrants have poor labour market outcomes in Ireland, with very low employment and exceptionally high unemployment rates.
...Previous research has suggested that some of the African disadvantage may be due to the policy of excluding asylum seekers from the labour market in the Direct Provision system. [p.20]
...
The analyses show that these asylum risk variables do influence labour market outcomes, reducing employment chances and increasing unemployment odds. [p. 21,22]
...
Thus, for example, if Africans as a group tended to be less educated or older than other groups then this might help to explain why they display lower employment and higher unemployment. In fact, however, I found that Africans are a relatively well-educated group and are concentrated in the prime working age groups. [p.21]
...
In June 2018 the Government announced that asylum seekers would be allowed to work from nine months after their application for asylum is lodged if they have not received a decision on their case. Hopefully, this may help to bring to an end a grudging approach to the treatment of asylum seekers seeking protection in Ireland, a policy stance that this paper demonstrates has had lasting negative impacts on their labour market prospects. [p. 22]
...
This would suggest that the disadvantages experienced by Africans in the Irish labour market appear to be due to a combination of restrictive policies the part of the state and discriminatory practices on the part of employers. [p. 23]
....

This appears to be different from your summary of its conclusion.

Kivaro wrote: »

When this particular academic speaks about "fact", he is in fact talking about the self-reporting by the Africans about their educational background.
...............
I repeat one of the few passages from the report that is not skewed in a way that only liberal academics can do:
O’Connell and Kenny (2017) show that only about 40% of adult African nationals in Ireland are employed, far less than the average for Irish natives or for other immigrant groups.

McHardcore wrote: »

Are you seriously attempting to backtrack on your own link to your facts?

Boggles wrote: »

Posts a report that disproves his racist bull shít.

Then tries hilariously to discredit the report he posted.

Absolute comedy goal. :pac:

McHardcore wrote: »

You got called on your "facts" about African unemployment. You posted a link to back them up, which instead disproved them. Then you attempt to backpedal by discrediting your own link.
This has to be a first for boards.ie. Thanks. I got a good laugh out of that.

fat zombie

The so called Liberals have dug in their heels and point blank refuse to see anything wrong with illegal immigration to Ireland.
These Liberals are usually the caricature "soy boy" and flakey woman, who will be the first to be taken advantaged off by the illegal immigrants.
Karma in action

Mr. teddywinkles

SporadicMan wrote: »

Can anyone remind me what the benefits are for the normal people of the country to take all these young, male "refugees" into the country?

How can anyone look at this stuff and then get surprised / shocked when more people become racist / turn to far right views?

I'd say there's lots of brown envelopes and golden handshakes going around the political world. Would you really be that shocked to know. Just wonder why there's just 6 countries taken in last batch out of what 27 eu countries?

fat zombie

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

I'd say there's lots of brown envelopes and golden handshakes going around the political world. Would you really be that shocked to know. Just wonder why there's just 6 countries taken in last batch out of what 27 eu countries?

Leo and Simon will be well looked after in the next EU top job selection process, not election a selection!!

Mr. teddywinkles

fat zombie wrote: »

Leo and Simon will be well looked after in the next EU top job selection process, not election a selection!!

It's comparable to the overzealous pupil to be teachers pet. Hand shoots up all the time to answer questions but it doesn't matter if there right or wrong. Just keep being in the teachers spotlight.

Kivaro

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

The 70% statistic is taken from the International Protection Office. While you are reminiscing, do you want to explain this statistic that you gave.

The reason why I keep calling you out is because you are continuously asking for an honest discourse on the topic, but yet you appear to be extremely disingenuous in your own posts.
You highlight the >70% rejection of asylum seekers and then conflate it with the percentage of deportation that you claim is happening in Ireland.

It is simply not happening. While the rejection rate may be that figure, we are not deporting >70% of failed asylum seekers. I know that. You know that. And the whole world knows that.

Stop being dishonest, and then we can have a reasonable conversation.
You can easily put me in my place though by linking a reputable source that proves that Ireland is deporting 70% of failed asylum seekers, because that was your initial claim.

fat zombie

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

It's comparable to the overzealous pupil to be teachers pet. Hand shoots up all the time to answer questions but it doesn't matter if there right or wrong. Just keep being in the teachers spotlight.

Good old fashioned lick arses!
Will that draw the anger of the PC police due to leo's sexual orentiation

Kivaro

cloudatlas wrote: »

One example besides I'm sure Malawi is a lovely place to stay in, I think I've heard of her she started the 'Our table' initiative that has provided a way for asylum seekers to connect with the Irish community, get the nutritious food that they are denied in direct provision, it also provides jobs. Sounds like she actually gives a **** about integrating into Irish life and actually doing something to make a change and a difference in people's lives, fair play to her.

I've provided you with the proof that you requested.
On the other hand, your claim of direct provision centres feeding asylum seekers with fast food and given no money, is plain and simply a lie. You are lying.

While we feed, house, and provide healthcare, and all the other necessary requirements for their day-to-day living, they also receive a stipend of cash from the Irish tax-payer that they can spend at will. The Irish people also give asylum seekers the opportunity to work in order to supplement the cash money that we are giving them.

I am comfortable to state, based on your last 2 posts, that you are not a full-time worker. Because if you were, you would expect asylum seekers to be extremely appreciative of everything that Irish workers provide to them ....... especially since they claim to be fleeing from the horrors of a terrible situation. I know that if I was in fear for my life and arrive in a country like Ireland with everything that we offer, I would be very thankful to the Irish worker for saving my life and giving me and my family (and my extended family) shelter.

cloudatlas

Kivaro wrote: »

I've provided you with the proof that you requested.
On the other hand, your claim of direct provision centres feeding asylum seekers with fast food and given no money, is plain and simply a lie. You are lying.

While we feed, house, and provide healthcare, and all the other necessary requirements for their day-to-day living, they also receive a stipend of cash from the Irish tax-payer that they can spend at will. The Irish people also give asylum seekers the opportunity to work in order to supplement the cash money that we are giving them.

I am comfortable to state, based on your last 2 posts, that you are not a full-time worker. Because if you were, you would expect asylum seekers to be extremely appreciative of everything that Irish workers provide to them ....... especially since they claim to be fleeing from the horrors of a terrible situation. I know that if I was in fear for my life and arrive in a country like Ireland with everything that we offer, I would be very thankful to the Irish worker for saving my life and giving me and my family (and my extended family) shelter.

They get paid a pittance, they are fed burgers and chips and food that has low nutritional value, there are reports of high numbers suffering from depression, there are children living in these centres. I’m not lying. People need to be treated with dignity to have a reason for living education, job opportunities hope of a future give people dignity. I work full time I don’t believe refugees/migrants are causing homelessness in Ireland there are many lies in this thread.

punisher5112

Many of these children are born here and conceived here also.....

Wouldn't it be best not have them till their able to care for them in a loving home.

Blueshoe

cloudatlas wrote: »

Strawmen because people are stating that they are causing the homeless crisis they aren't. Government policy is causing the homeless crisis. Direct provision is set up to make sure that these people fail, they get **** fatty fast food, no money to live on and they are denied education in the hope that they will deter others from coming but that's not working so we need to start treating them like human beings.

That's a complete lie anyway

cloudatlas

Blueshoe wrote: »

That's a complete lie anyway

No it's not. Many mortgages are teetering in arrears. The flaw in the system is that the governments plan to tackle homelessness ‘rebuilding Ireland’ relies on the private sector. These companies aren’t interested in building accommodation for low income families, these families are then forced into the higher priced private rental sector where they are at risk of being evicted due to increasing rents or landlords who want to sell. Social housing needs to be built. There is enough land to build on but the governments ideology favours the private sector and local authorities don’t want to approve social housing as the locals will complain about council flats near them and the county counsellors are afraid that they won’t be elected if they go against the people. Majority who are being made homeless are coming from the private rental sector. Solution : the government has to force through plans for social housing, tax empty houses or if no response from landlord compulsory re purchase orders. This can be fixed by the government. Refugees are straw men in all this.

cloudatlas

punisher5112 wrote: »

Many of these children are born here and conceived here also.....

Wouldn't it be best not have them till their able to care for them in a loving home.

No idea what provision there was for family planning education and implementation in their country of origin or in direct provision.

Blueshoe

cloudatlas wrote: »

No it's not. Many mortgages are teetering in arrears. The flaw in the system is that the governments plan to tackle homelessness ‘rebuilding Ireland’ relies on the private sector. These companies aren’t interested in building accommodation for low income families, these families are then forced into the higher priced private rental sector where they are at risk of being evicted due to increasing rents or landlords who want to sell. Social housing needs to be built. There is enough land to build on but the governments ideology favours the private sector and local authorities don’t want to approve social housing as the locals will complain about council flats near them and the county counsellors are afraid that they won’t be elected if they go against the people. Majority who are being made homeless are coming from the private rental sector. Solution : the government has to force through plans for social housing, tax empty houses or if no response from landlord compulsory re purchase orders. This can be fixed by the government. Refugees are straw men in all this.

It's not up to the government to house and feed everyone. (The taxpayer)
If people own property that is theirs to do with what they like.


You seem to think Ireland is far more a socialist country than it actually is. Thankfully

cloudatlas

Blueshoe wrote: »

It's not up to the government to house and feed everyone. (The taxpayer)
If people own property that is theirs to do with what they like.


You seem to think Ireland is far more a socialist country than it actually is. Thankfully

Yer your dead right policies on the environment, health, education have no impact on our society.

Blueshoe

cloudatlas wrote: »

Yer your dead right policies on the environment, health, education have no impact on our society.

The basics of any country. No relation to handing people houses paid for by those who get up every morning to work though.

Nothing is free in this life

SchrodingersCat

It's pretty low. Asylum seekers get €38.80 a week in payment. It was 19euros a week up until this year.

enricoh

cloudatlas wrote: »

They get paid a pittance, they are fed burgers and chips and food that has low nutritional value, there are reports of high numbers suffering from depression, there are children living in these centres. I’m not lying. People need to be treated with dignity to have a reason for living education, job opportunities hope of a future give people dignity. I work full time I don’t believe refugees/migrants are causing homelessness in Ireland there are many lies in this thread.

Of course there is high numbers with depression, its a fast track to a life on the disability allowance. No pesky courses to attend on the dole.
Do you work in the asylum seeker industry. Fair enough if you derive your income from them being here.
If not, you are a wee bit naive