Ireland's asylum hotel monthly bill tops €3.54m

cloudatlas

Blueshoe wrote: »

The basics of any country. No relation to handing people houses paid for by those who get up every morning to work though.

Nothing is free in this life

Er you do know that more and more people who have jobs are finding themselves homeless because of the private sector housing crisis and have to seek help from charities to stay temporarily in shelters. How would you propose this crisis is solved?

Blueshoe

cloudatlas wrote: »

Er you do know that more and more people who have jobs are finding themselves homeless because of the private sector housing crisis and have to seek help from charities to stay temporarily in shelters. How would you propose this crisis is solved?

Why are they finding themselves homeless? What is the reason.

Diceicle

The asylum system is broken. I think everyone would agree with that.
Its also full of (some might say scammers, but I'll stick with....) non-eligible applicants - as has been stated we currently reject ~70% of applicants. This number was as high as 94% back in the boom when Michael McDowell was in charge. And that number was also consistent with other EU Countries.
Due to the appeals people languish in the system hoping to wait out the process and be granted leave to remain - and it works.
As with the article I referenced previously, we deport less than 20% of those given a removal order.
The system as it is suits the government though - well, I'd extend that to the government and the fuedal class who are profiting from the status quo.

cloudatlas

Blueshoe wrote: »

Why are they finding themselves homeless? What is the reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEISkxN0GSw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG25tkzp7VQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmWSFzI0sL4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLf1V_IbPdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4uWa8MUvmM

Blueshoe

cloudatlas wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEISkxN0GSw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG25tkzp7VQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmWSFzI0sL4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLf1V_IbPdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4uWa8MUvmM

I watched the first two. Pascal and Sylvia. Tough viewing. Landlords selling up and no safety net for the tenants.
Why are the landlords selling and why is there no safety net.

Hap are possibly the people in the video's rent at most likely market price or above yet landlords still want to sell. Why? They are being taxed so heavily that it's not worth keeping the property .

The governments policy and it would be political suicide they gave landlords tax breaks.

The tenants are left homeless and they have no other option but homelessness and most likely end up losing their jobs.

The government needs build cheap mid term accommodation is a safety net.
As Pascal said in the first video he just wants a bit of independence to keep him going.
Small units on council land .
In the meantime the government should keep building social houses at a reasonable rate until supply increases.

They should also give tax breaks to developers to build private housing in an effort to increase the supply and lower the price.

There are plenty of people paying record rents and can't afford to buy.

Basically we need more housing both private and social. This should be encouraged by government as it would benefit everyone

Crock Rock

A fraction of the combined money pumped into Pavee Point and the money spent cleaning up the mess they make and houses they destroy.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/state-paid-out-130m-in-funding-to-travellers-26619606.html

weldoninhio

cloudatlas wrote: »

One example besides I'm sure Malawi is a lovely place to stay in, I think I've heard of her she started the 'Our table' initiative that has provided a way for asylum seekers to connect with the Irish community, get the nutritious food that they are denied in direct provision, it also provides jobs. Sounds like she actually gives a **** about integrating into Irish life and actually doing something to make a change and a difference in people's lives, fair play to her.

Malawi is a lovely country. My ex girlfriend was from there.

SchrodingersCat

Kivaro wrote: »

You highlight the >70% rejection of asylum seekers and then conflate it with the percentage of deportation that you claim is happening in Ireland.

It is simply not happening. While the rejection rate may be that figure...

There is no "may be" about it, this is the actual percentage of rejections of asylum seekers in 2018, presented on an NGO website, and sourced from our own government. There is no "conflating" of percentage of deportations. I gave the figures of deportations here, taken from the Irish times.

By your same argument:

Kivaro wrote: »

[SchrodingersCat] also uses sources as Nature.com and an NGO website whose sole purpose revolves around migration.

You believe that the journal Natures sole purpose revolves around migration. But you dont believe that. No one believes that. That would be silly.


Are you going to ignore the question as to why you misrepresented the conclusion of the report you linked to?

Kivaro wrote: »

you hear the staggering statistic that 60% of African adults in Ireland are unemployed, then it begs far deeper questions on why this is happening e.g. they have no need to work due to the very generous welfare state that exists in this country
.....
From http://www.ucd.ie/geary/static/publi...rywp201816.pdf

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Thanks for that. I read your source and in particular, the conclusion, where the following is summarised: ...
The disadvantages experienced by Africans in the Irish labour market appear to be due to a combination of restrictive policies the part of the state and discriminatory practices on the part of employers. [p. 23]
....

Kivaro

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

There is no "conflating" of percentage of deportations.

You said this:

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat
With regards to your later point, the majority of asylum applicants in Ireland are rejected and deported.

The reason why I can quote it is because you stated it. It is a complete and utter lie. No other words for it. The majority are not deported after rejection.
And even using the link that you provided, you remained confused because you said this:

That would suggest that we deported more than we should have?

Yeah, good one. We deported more than we should have.
Never happened.

SchrodingersCat

Hold on: do you actually believe that the Journal Natures "sole purpose revolves around migration."?

I take it you are going to ignore my last question again too?

Kivaro

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat
Thanks for that. I read your source and in particular, the conclusion, where the following is summarised: ...
The disadvantages experienced by Africans in the Irish labour market appear to be due to a combination of restrictive policies the part of the state and discriminatory practices on the part of employers.

Ah, the racist claims made by Africans again.
Irish employers are so racist that they will not hire African economic migrants. But I'm sure the Irish welfare safety net is there for them in that case.

I thought that Ireland was going to be different to other European countries that accepted large groups of non-EU migrants? I thought that we had the holy grail in getting these migrants working and not be a drain on society and increasing the social welfare bill for the working class.
Ah, the racist Irish employers ............ they are to blame.

SchrodingersCat

You are still dodging the two questions Kinvaro.

Kivaro

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Hold on: do you actually believe that the Journal Natures "sole purpose revolves around migration."?

You are confused again.
Here is your post:

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat
With regards to your later point, the majority of asylum applicants in Ireland are rejected and deported. The breakdown of the figures are here.

You used an NGO link, which is extremely biased, as their sole purpose revolves around migration. Your source was this website:
https://www.asylumineurope.org
The Asylum Information Database (AIDA) is a database managed by the European Council on Refugees and Exiles (ECRE).
You provided this link.
As you get older and enter into employment, you will find your views will change when you see the amount of your tax money required to support these migrants.

You continue to display the disingenuous nature of your debating style by repeatedly deliberately misspelling my username.
Such schoolboy tactics to resort to that, so welcome to the ignore list.

McHardcore

fat zombie wrote: »

Good old fashioned lick arses!
Will that draw the anger of the PC police due to leo's sexual orentiation

Jesus Christ. Not only is this thread full of racists, its homophobes making bad gay jokes now.

SchrodingersCat

Kivaro. You have attempted to discredit all the sources of facts on asylum seekers that we have given you.
You have claimed that the Journal Nature, which is ranked one the world's most cited scientific journals "sole purpose revolves around migration".
You have attempted to descredit the statistics given on a NGO website even though they come from our own government. for the same reason.
You have even attempted to descredit the report from Dublin College University (DCU) as "skewed in a way that only liberal academics can do" even though this was the source that you originally gave for your facts. When this was pointed out to you, you attempted to backtrack.

At this point, I dont think there is any sources of information that you will believe. Not even your own.

You still havent answered the two questions btw.

Kivaro wrote: »

You continue to display the disingenuous nature of your debating style by repeatedly deliberately misspelling my username.
Such schoolboy tactics to resort to that, so welcome to the ignore list.

Awww bless. I thought we were having fun.

Kivaro

If we tease out how this asylum scam is being propagated on us, let's look at the hotel & B&B costs for the excess asylum applicants that we can't house in Direct Provision centres. There are now over 1,000 asylum seekers living in hotels and B&Bs around the country at over €100 a head per night. That is 3 times the cost of keeping them in DP centres. So we can see how the asylum industry is a lucrative business, which might explain some of the posts on here.

The (well paid) CEOs of various asylum charities wants that to stop though. They want us to immediately provide housing to asylum seekers as soon as they get here. Imagine being a young Irish couple working and scrounging for the funds to be able to afford a home, only to be outbid by the government/local councils to house people who just show up and declare they are seeking asylum.

Now, let's look at the quality of these asylum applicants. While we know that a vast majority are not real asylum seekers, a ridiculous amount, 41% (this year alone) are actually coming from safe countries. Safe countries mean that they are coming from safe and stable democracies. So imagine these applicants from these safe countries getting homes immediately because they declared themselves as asylum seekers.

With the enticement of new homes and lucrative welfare benefits, it is no wonder that Ireland is now looking at a 15 year high in asylum applications.
Word of the scam is definitely spreading around the globe.

Diceicle

A few interesting posts from the Nigerian perspective:

https://www.nairaland.com/99271/ireland-ranks-no-5-best
https://www.nairaland.com/810125/why-nigerians-abroad-dont-themselves
https://www.nairaland.com/57190/very-interesting-someone-advice-me
https://www.nairaland.com/985003/nigerian-mother-caught-claiming-child
https://www.nairaland.com/3925717/refugees-benefit-around-europe...nigeria-failed

I thought the last link (a post detailing the types of Refugee systems around the world was interesting)

And it (Ireland) is rated the world 2nd best economy after Luxembourg. Its job opportunities are superfluous, its wages supersedes. . ., its benefits are generous, and its social welfare is matchless: such an extravagant country, and an enticing society. . . God Bless Ireland!

Blueshoe

Diceicle wrote: »

A few interesting posts from the Nigerian perspective:

https://www.nairaland.com/99271/ireland-ranks-no-5-best
https://www.nairaland.com/810125/why-nigerians-abroad-dont-themselves
https://www.nairaland.com/57190/very-interesting-someone-advice-me
https://www.nairaland.com/985003/nigerian-mother-caught-claiming-child
https://www.nairaland.com/3925717/refugees-benefit-around-europe...nigeria-failed

I thought the last link (a post detailing the types of Refugee systems around the world was interesting)

Lol. Delighted

Diceicle

More insight:

I have to say the Irish were very generous and there was no effective control on there social welfare system, the system simply allows people to be lazy
In fact some people(everyone, not just Nigerians) see the social benefit as their career because its pays well not to work and collect money than work and be tax (I mean some people were having 5 to 6 kids just for the sake of benefit!). It was totally surreal

https://www.nairaland.com/557043/nigerians-irelandhow-coping-recession-eu

Diceicle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iKywvcglcc

Currently watching this. He seems to have done his homework.
I didn't know that Barry Andrews (FF) wife earned €1,000,000 over 5 years fighting deportation orders. Nice bread.

Kivaro

The asylum industry is a cash cow for the 'connected' in Ireland.
Some people are making an absolute fortune out of it, with the final bill going to the Irish worker.

statesaver

Why is it so bloody hard to deport failed asylum seekers in this country.

It's beyond a fuking joke now. Taxpayers money wasted.

punisher5112

statesaver wrote: »

Why is it so bloody hard to deport failed asylum seekers in this country.

It's beyond a fuking joke now. Taxpayers money wasted.

Because we have so many avenues for them such as appeals and groups siding with them and putting pressure on authorities.

Way too much been spent on free legal aid and other services....

Eric Cartman

statesaver wrote: »

Why is it so bloody hard to deport failed asylum seekers in this country.

It's beyond a fuking joke now. Taxpayers money wasted.

+1 a rigid 90 day turnaround process and a hard cut "youre in or youre out" rule and expedited deportations would do wonders.
keep an 95%+ rejection rate and we'll be sorted.

Kivaro

If we were really that interested in helping asylum seekers we would go to the source, and not accept the cock and bull stories of the multitudes who traverse many other European borders in order to get to our Welfare Mecca. Going to refugee camps and taking a certain number that we, as a nation, could sustain, would be far more noble and more appropriate, but no, we follow the French/German/Swedish model.

And guess what would happen if we sought out genuine asylum seekers in refugee camps? They would be so appreciative of a new life that we would never see a sign of them on welfare, or being engaged in criminality and fraud, which is what we are seeing with the majority of the asylum seekers that are reaching our shores via paid flights and NGO ferries at the moment.

We are being scammed, and those of us who get up early on Monday mornings and do our bit are the ones who are going to pay for this financially for the rest of our lives. Simon, Leo, and Catherine will be well gone when the final bill for this phase of the asylum scam reaches the ridiculous level, but then it will be our children and grandchildren who will be indebted for their lifetimes in order to sustain this warped concept.

Fine Gael/Fianna Fail are destroying our country in front of our very own eyes.

sabat

Exactly-if the whole point of the refugee system is to help people then the way it's being operated currently-bringing or inviting them to the opposite end of another continent-is the worst possible use of the available funds and resources and is depriving the genuine cases. Just take that €1M given to a single solicitor mentioned earlier-that could provide food for a couple of thousand refugees for a whole year. The €3.5M a month in the thread title is enough to run several schools and clinics in these countries. Why not spend the money where it has the most impact and you know that 100% of the cases really need it?

mvl

Thought there is no better place to post this than here.

By comparison with Irish hotel bills for what is a small number of refugees, appears EU will give Colombia to support handling the 1.4 million Venezuelan refugees a "fantastic" amount of 30milion EUR. Really.

https://www.dw.com/en/eu-to-give-colombia-30m-in-aid-for-venezuelan-migrants/a-50410170

fisgon

Kivaro wrote: »

They would be so appreciative of a new life that we would never see a sign of them on welfare, or being engaged in criminality and fraud, which is what we are seeing with the majority of the asylum seekers that are reaching our shores via paid flights and NGO ferries at the moment.

"the majority of asylum seekers" are engaged in criminality and fraud?

Where is your evidence of this? You don't have any, do you? You don't have any because it is not in any way true - the opposite is in fact the case, asylum seekers are the least likely of any group in society to be engaged in criminality.

Yurt2

Eric Cartman wrote: »

+1 a rigid 90 day turnaround process and a hard cut "youre in or youre out" rule and expedited deportations would do wonders.
keep an 95%+ rejection rate and we'll be sorted.

To be honest this. The time from submission of application to first and second appeal needs to be slashed big-time.

- First hearing within 30 days;
- Upon rejection, appeal hearing within 60;
- Hight Court appeal if it comes to it within 90.

They can have their bags packed at the High Court and be ready for their deportation flight if they are rejected at that stage.

This is needed because of the numbers of spoofers in the system. I speak here of the Georgians, Albanians, Pakistanis (and other safe countries) that are coming from safe circumstances and are clogging up the system.

punisher5112

They just keep popping out kids so get to stay....