The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

MayoAreMagic

tritium wrote: »

Ah sure we’ll split Mayo into five too. In a stroke we’ll solve the long round trips for any player in the county. Same for Kerry. They’ll all have a smaller player pool sure but that will mean little Leitrim will have a fair crack at things. Go Westport urban district 1 has a certain ring to it I think

Sounds alright yeah?

The long round trips are the ones across the country, not the county. In a nutshell you have highlighted how ill-informed many in the capital are about gaa outside the capital.
The rest of the post, I cant take seriously

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

Whats this Dublin inc you speak off

Dublin post financial doping.

Previous to that, dublin could be respected. They were a genuine gaa county. Fair enough they hadnt won an all ireland in 10 years, but they werent far away. But in taking the handout, that nobody else was getting, they sold out.

It is a shame because I think they would have came good again and we could have had a real golden age of gaa in the last decade, with dublin, donegal, tyrone, mayo, galway, kerry, monaghan and possibly a few others contesting big games and sharing the titles. It would have been so much better than what we actually got.

ShyMets

Well folks I'm singing off. Going to celebrate what's left of New Years Eve.

Happy New Year. Look forward to renewing the battle tomorrow

Enquiring

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

That's pretty bizarre - I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you don't know the population figures. But why would you go to the trouble of splitting it 4 ways yet leave such a population imbalance such that one (City) has 2.5 times as many people as the others.
It just seems lazy and doesn't actually make any geographical sense - it's not as if people who live there feel any particular affinity for the Fingal or South County Dublin concepts.

I didn't draw the boundaries! They've been in existence since 1994. Here are the approximate populations:

Dublin city - About 545,000
Fingal - About 300,000
South Dublin 280,000
Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown - About 220,000

Now, as you say, Dublin city clearly has a far larger population but there are some socio and economic factors in play here. That is something the Dublin City county board will have to tackle and I think specifically targetting some areas would not only be beneficial for the GAA but it would be great for the areas involved.

Looking at it in a wider sense, each county clearly has the population to compete. Each one has a higher population than most of the counties in Ireland.

ooter

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Has it not occurred to you that the gaa as it stands is dying on its arse in every corner of the cou try bar dublin?

Counties from all 4 corners of the country have contested the last 3 all ireland finals.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Dublin post financial doping.

Previous to that, dublin could be respected. They were a genuine gaa county. Fair enough they hadnt won an all ireland in 10 years, but they werent far away. But in taking the handout, that nobody else was getting, they sold out.

They hadn't won a senior hurling all ireland in 68 years and still haven't won one despite the handout.

ArielAtom

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Dublin post financial doping.

Previous to that, dublin could be respected. They were a genuine gaa county. Fair enough they hadnt won an all ireland in 10 years, but they werent far away. But in taking the handout, that nobody else was getting, they sold out.

It is a shame because I think they would have came good again and we could have had a real golden age of gaa in the last decade, with dublin, donegal, tyrone, mayo, galway, kerry, monaghan and possibly a few others contesting big games and sharing the titles. It would have been so much better than what we actually got.

I’ve asked this before, it do you know the meaning of financial doping or are you just looking for likes???

ooter

Doping in sport is cheating and against the rules, dublin gaa have broken no rules.

feargale

What about Dublin hurling then?

MayoAreMagic

ooter wrote: »

Doping in sport is cheating and against the rules, dublin gaa have broken no rules.

It is actually administering substances in order to enhance sporting performance. In this case, that substance is public money.

But sure its the volunteers!
Fair enough, ye might pay back all that cash that coincided with all the trophies so...

Realt Dearg Sec

JeffKenna wrote: »

That's because Limerick destroyed the game bringing in football style tactics.

It's funny, I heard this same exact thing said about Kilkenny 14 years ago. Twas bull**** then as well. Look at any match from over ten years ago, the game is streets ahead of where it was then, and go back to the supposed golden era of the nineties and it's like Junior b stuff compared to the skill levels now.

ooter

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It is actually administering substances in order to enhance sporting performance. In this case, that substance is public money.

But sure its the volunteers!
Fair enough, ye might pay back all that cash that coincided with all the trophies so...

If you can point me to where there was any illegality involved in the public money dublin received I'd really appreciate that?

JeffKenna

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

It's funny, I heard this same exact thing said about Kilkenny 14 years ago. Twas bull**** then as well. Look at any match from over ten years ago, the game is streets ahead of where it was then, and go back to the supposed golden era of the nineties and it's like Junior b stuff compared to the skill levels now.

My point was agreeing with that, the reference to Limerick was in relation to the tactics Limerick have brought in under Paul Kinnerk. Looking at the All Ireland final it's obvious there was a clear tactic for their forwards to foul at every opportunity in order to prevent any attack materialising and break up the flow of the game. If 50% of these fouls aren't called then straight away Limerick are gaining.

MayoAreMagic

ooter wrote: »

Counties from all 4 corners of the country have contested the last 3 all ireland finals.



They hadn't won a senior hurling all ireland in 68 years and still haven't won one despite the handout.

All against the same team, where they ended as two hidings, with one draw and then another hiding in the replay. That is a fairly laughable point in all honesty. I doubt anyone thinks that you actually believe it yourself, which underlines an issue at play here, a real lack of honesty on the part of some dubs regarding the situation, due to many having no interest in the gaa outside of dublin gaa.

Re the hurling, so basically, they have to win in every sport before you will accept there is an issue in any sport? How are they going in the handball? Again, painfully flawed logic.

Here is a question, would any self-respecting dublin fan not like to take on kerry on an even playing field and go and beat them? No handouts, no advantages, no excuses. Surely deep down that is something that has to nag at someone in that situation.

MayoAreMagic

dunnerc wrote: »

Playing with words , pure nonsense !

That is the definition of doping. I cant do much more for you if you are unable to grasp the concept.

JeffKenna

ooter wrote: »

Counties from all 4 corners of the country have contested the last 3 all ireland finals.



They hadn't won a senior hurling all ireland in 68 years and still haven't won one despite the handout.

But sur the best Dublin hurlers are on the football team. Guaranteed an all Ireland every year they play, hard to blame them really.

ooter

Illegal is the key word here.
Here is a question, are the dublin senior hurlers playing (say kilkenny for example) on a level playing field?

MayoAreMagic

ooter wrote: »

Illegal is the key word here.
Here is a question, are the dublin senior hurlers playing (say kilkenny for example) on a level playing field?

They are two different sports. Not sure what part of that you cant grasp. Michael Jordan was a great basketball player, he wasnt great at baseball. Doubt he was much of a hurler either. You cant be offering much of an argument when that is your starting point...

In reality, you probably dont really deserve a response. You were trying to argue that counties from all over ireland contested the last 3 all Ireland finals, in the midst of a 6 in a row. That is highly disingenuous.

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

Yes. It nags at me everyday. Sometimes even keeps me awake at night

Why do you hide behind humour? Are you afraid to answer it honestly?

ShyMets

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why do you hide behind humour? Are you afraid to answer it honestly?

Whatever about counties. When I look at Kerry, a predominantly footballing county in a predominantly Hurling Province I don't see a team operating under any great disadvantage.

So nothing nags at me when Dublin beat them.

Enquiring

feargale wrote: »

What about Dublin hurling then?

I get your post but Dublin hurling is a very good example we can use to answer some queries raised. Mainly, how can funding help _____________ become competitive?

Let's have a look at where hurling in Dublin was at prior to funding taking effect and compare it to afterwards.

Dublin seniors were getting regular beatings in the Leinster hurling championship. 15 point defeats in 2003 and 2004, lost to Laois by 12 in 2005 and lost to Westmeath in 2006.

Things started improving in 2007, lost to Wexford by a point. In 2008, Dublin beat Westmeath by 19 points, a big turnaround from 2 years before. Obviously, new players coming through were making a big difference. Some key results since then; they beat Wexford in 2009 and made their way into a Leinster final. 2010, beat Clare by 13 points. 2011, beat Offaly and Galway to get to Leinster final, beat Limerick to get to an All Ireland semi final, they also beat Kilkenny by 12 points to win the National hurling league that year. In 2013, Dublin beat Wexford, Kilkenny and Galway to win their first ever Leinster hurling title featuring mostly Dublin players. Beat Limerick in 2015. Beat Wexford by 13 points in 2016. Beat Galway in 2019.

u20/21 hurling

Dublin had won 2 Leinster u21 titles in the 60's and 70's and only had been in 1 other Leinster final.

They've been in 10 Leinster finals post funding and won 4 of them.

Minor hurling

Dublin won a Leinster minor championship in 1983 but were only in 4 other finals since the 70's.

Post funding, they've been in 11 finals, winning 6 of them and 1 All Ireland.

Club hurling

In club hurling, Dublin reached 5 Leinster finals since the competition began in 1970, winning 1.

Dublin clubs have been in 7 Leinster finals since funding, winning 2 and 2 All Ireland's.


A clear transformation in standards. Working on producing players at underage has left Dublin in a completely different place at senior level. From no hopers, they are now competitive at the top level and have achieved some results that wouldn't have been thought possible prior to funding. This can happen in other counties in hurling and football. Give them funding and they can improve.

For example, could anyone imagine Wicklow winning a National football league and a Leinster championship? Competing at the top level beating teams like Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal? That's the equivalent of what happened with Dublin hurling. There would be some setbacks but there's proof that amazing transformations are possible.

ooter

Not sure what MJ has to do with anything, you've lost me there.
3 counties from the far corners of ireland had a chance to stop the 6 in a row at any point along the way and they failed, that's not dublin's fault.
Maybe they're just not skillful enough.

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

Whatever about counties. When I look at Kerry, a predominantly footballing county in a predominantly Hurling Province I don't see a team operating under any great disadvantage.

So nothing nags at me when Dublin beat them.

But your own county is predominantly football, and leinster has even less football counties competing than munster does... A bit of self-awareness lacking there.

MayoAreMagic

ooter wrote: »

Not sure what MJ has to do with anything, you've lost me there.
3 counties from the far corners of ireland had a chance to stop the 6 in a row at any point along the way and they failed, that's not dublin's fault.
Maybe they're just not skillful enough.

I thought you were referencing ciaran kilkenny playing hurling and football..

Well every team 'has a chance', in that respect, although it could be 1 in 1000, it still exists. How fair is that chance though? Hence the thread.

It would be interesting to see a mathematical probability of dublin winning compared to another team winning. I imagine it would be shamefully bad.

ShyMets

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But your own county is predominantly football, and leinster has even less football counties competing than munster does... A bit of self-awareness lacking there.

Leinster has less footballing counties competing then Munster. How do you make that out

ArielAtom

This is the definition of financial doping . Just to clarify some posters misunderstanding of its meaning.

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

Leinster has less footballing counties competing then Munster. How do you make that out

When is the last time a leinster county, outside dublin, made the semi finals? When is the last time dublin were beaten in leinster? Fairly simple id have thought...

MayoAreMagic

ArielAtom wrote: »

This is the definition of financial doping . Just to clarify some posters misunderstanding of its meaning.

Actually that is an example of financial doping, rather than the definition of it.
Are you suggesting that there can be no other possible examples of financial doping other than that specific one?

ShyMets

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

When is the last time a leinster county, outside dublin, made the semi finals? When is the last time dublin were beaten in leinster? Fairly simple id have thought...

In 2010 kildare got to a semi final. Meath won the 2010 Leinster final. From 2010 to 2019 Cork got to the semi final twice. Tipp once. Not a whole lot better then Leinster.

ShyMets

dunnerc wrote: »

Playing with words again:rolleyes:

When David Lloyd George first met De Valera he afterwards the described the experience as trying to pick up mercury with a fork.

Sound familiar

ooter

The leinster counties have a better chance of making the all ireland semi final now through the back door than they did under the old system, they can actually avoid dublin and make it all the way to the semi finals.
It's not dublin's fault that they don't.
Dublin lost in leinster in 2010 and still got to the all ireland semi final, it can be done.

ArielAtom

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Actually that is an example of financial doping, rather than the definition of it.
Are you suggesting that there can be no other possible examples of financial doping other than that specific one?

That is the definition. You just can’t accept it’s definition. It really is that simple.

MayoAreMagic

dunnerc wrote: »

Playing with words again:rolleyes:

It isnt playing with words. The attachment was an example of financial doping. The guy posting it was trying to suggest it was the definition, and thereby the only possible way that financial doping could take place is if they matched that exact criteria. Any reasonable person can see that is biased nonsense.

ArielAtom

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It isnt playing with words. The attachment was an example of financial doping. The guy posting it was trying to suggest it was the definition, and thereby the only possible way that financial doping could take place is if they matched that exact criteria. Any reasonable person can see that is biased nonsense.

But it is. This is the definition from the Collins dictionary.

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

In 2010 kildare got to a semi final. Meath won the 2010 Leinster final. From 2010 to 2019 Cork got to the semi final twice. Tipp once. Not a whole lot better then Leinster.

Cork won the all ireland in 2010...
Isnt it strange how you left out 2020?? Where cork beat kerry and tipperary made the semi finals again.
So dublin havent lost a game in leinster in over a decade. Kerry lost in munster in 2020...

MayoAreMagic

ArielAtom wrote: »

But it is. This is the definition from the Collins dictionary. I understand that comprehension might not be your strong point, considering you misunderstanding of the meaning of the term.

It lists two situations as examples.

Would you like to beat kerry without needing advantages to do so?

MayoAreMagic

ooter wrote: »

The leinster counties have a better chance of making the all ireland semi final now through the back door than they did under the old system, they can actually avoid dublin and make it all the way to the semi finals.
It's not dublin's fault that they don't.
Dublin lost in leinster in 2010 and still got to the all ireland semi final, it can be done.

Nor is it Kerry's fault in munster...
You seem to be arguing against your own points here.

Would you like to be able to beat kerry in a fair contest?

ShyMets

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Cork won the all ireland in 2010...
Isnt it strange how you left out 2020?? Where cork beat kerry and tipperary made the semi finals again.
So dublin havent lost a game in leinster in over a decade. Kerry lost in munster in 2020...

For a good reason. 2020 was an exceptionally year. Would Tipp have beaten Kerry in a Munster Final, I doubt it. Would Cavan have won in a normal year unlikely.

Now back to my original point. Dublin are far ahead in Leinster and change does and will happen.

But let's not pretend that Kerry don't have certain advantages in Munster

ArielAtom

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It lists two situations as examples. Im not sure what part of that you are struggling to comprehend? Either way, it isnt my job to offer you an education.

Would you like to beat kerry without needing advantages to do so?

You keep your head in the sand. I have posted the Collins English dictionaries definition. I’ll leave it there.

MayoAreMagic

ArielAtom wrote: »

You keep your head in the sand. I have posted the Collins English dictionaries definition. I’ll leave it there.

You mean you posted a quote from the collins dictionary website that offers two examples of financial doping.
Why are you avoiding answering the question put to you?

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

For a good reason. 2020 was an exceptionally year. Would Tipp have beaten Kerry in a Munster Final, I doubt it. Would Cavan have won in a normal year unlikely.

Now back to my original point. Dublin are far ahead in Leinster and change does and will happen.

But let's not pretend that Kerry don't have certain advantages in Munster

But it happened, the same as any other all ireland win. Funny enough, nothing changed in the leinster championship procession in this wild and wonderful year... You are just dismissing it because it doesnt suit your narrative.

Kerry have feck all advantages in munster compared to dublins advantages over everyone else. That is the reality.

tritium

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It isnt a definition though, it is an example.
It is kind of cringey that this is the best kind of response you can come up with.

Here is a question, would you not like to beat kerry on an even playing field rather than only when you have every advantage going? Dont you have that bit of pride that makes you want to take the stabilisers off?

Given Kerry have theee decades of one of the best sponsorship arrangements in the country behind them I think they’re the last county you should call on for your argument

MayoAreMagic

tritium wrote: »

Given Kerry have theee decades of one of the best sponsorship arrangements in the country behind them I think they’re the last county you should call on for your argument

Sorry, cant take that point seriously. Dublin fans complaining about another teams sponsorship deal.
I ask again, would you not like to beat kerry on an even playing field? I just know that when mayo beat them after the replay a few years back, it was something I enjoyed as a fan.

tritium

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Nor is it Kerry's fault in munster...
You seem to be arguing against your own points here.

Would you like to be able to beat kerry in a fair contest?

They can and do, end of

ArielAtom

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

You mean you posted a quote from the collins dictionary website that offers two examples of financial doping.
Why are you avoiding answering the question put to you?

I’m challenging you on you misunderstanding of a term, you chose to deflect. Accept you are wrong and we can move on. Winning AI’s never gets boring. I was long enough going to games and losing. Something you know all about.

If you choose to ignore the Collins English dictionary and continue to use financial doping as a description you are lying. There is no other term for it.

ShyMets

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But it happened, the same as any other all ireland win. Funny enough, nothing changed in the leinster championship procession in this wild and wonderful year... You are just dismissing it because it doesnt suit your narrative.

Kerry have feck all advantages in munster compared to dublins advantages over everyone else. That is the reality.

It did happen and it was wonderful. However it does not change the fact that for the last 70 years Munster has been a two horse race and for some of that time a one horse race.

Tipp's win does not change the fact that Kerry are a football county operating in a predominantly Hurling Province.

Dublin operate in a predominantly football province

MayoAreMagic

ArielAtom wrote: »

I’m challenging you on you misunderstanding of a term, you chose to deflect. Accept you are wrong and we can move on. Winning AI’s never gets boring. I was long enough going to games and losing. Something you know all about.

If you choose to ignore the Collins English dictionary and continue to use financial doping as a description you are lying. There is no other term for it.

Oh you are back. You announced that you were leaving it there. What made you return? Your rhetoric narrative being exposed as bs I assume?

No that isnt what you are doing. You are trying to pretend that financial doping can only apply to the two exact examples offered on the collins website. Anyone with half a brain can see that this is a nonsense stance to take and seem more like the last gasps of a floundering argument, which is exactly what your stance is. Dublins extensive financial doping has rendered their successes moot. The gaa are taking your money, that is basically the long and short of it.

ooter

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Nor is it Kerry's fault in munster...
You seem to be arguing against your own points here.

Would you like to be able to beat kerry in a fair contest?

Maybe if you defined fair contest I might be able to answer it?
When the dublin senior hurlers take to the field are they playing in a fair contest, again I'll use kilkenny* as an example?
* Not ciaran Kilkenny

MayoAreMagic

tritium wrote: »

They can and do, end of

In all fairness, if they did then they wouldnt have needed the financial doping in the first place...
Winning post doping isnt really worth a whole lot. Fair enough, it will get a few fairweather fans onside, but any self respecting sports fan knows it means little. Id have thought proper fans would want their team to beat their rivals on their own merits

MayoAreMagic

ooter wrote: »

Maybe if you defined fair contest I might be able to answer it?
When the dublin senior hurlers take to the field are they playing in a fair contest, again I'll use kilkenny* as an example?
* Not ciaran Kilkenny

A contest where the competitors get something representing equal treatment. For example, when a county has massive population advantages and regularly contest the latter stages, dont go pushing them miles ahead in every way you can think of, with taxpayers money, as that is unfair treatment. Not rocket science surely...

ooter

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

A contest where the competitors get something representing equal treatment. For example, when a county has massive population advantages and regularly contest the latter stages, dont go pushing them miles ahead in every way you can think of, with taxpayers money, as that is unfair treatment. Not rocket science surely...

But in the example I used kilkenny aren't getting equal treatment but will handily beat dublin who have all the advantages you mentioned.
Dublin's population isn't changing any day soon so I guess we'll never get to see that fair contest you've defined.