The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Strumms

Enquiring wrote: »

This is a poor effort. Basically regurgitating points that have been refuted numerous times. Cork have more clubs than Dublin for example. The playing populations are fairly similar but Cork have a far bigger land mass to cover. You would think the funding would be broadly similar? Not even close. Dublin have received many multiples of the amount Cork have received.

When you look at all other counties. There's not much if a gap. They all got enough to fund between 1 and 6 coaches. The only county out on it's own is Dublin. The results gained from this have been predictable.

Poor effort? Well, I’m not in need of your approval, I’m not in the slightest bit interested in your appraisal of ‘effort’... if X county are not satisfied with the levels of funding which they receive. They should lift the phone, they should write emails, they should schedule zoom meetings... put forward a case..to be in receipt of more funding..

They should lift the bar for themselves as opposed to attempting to lower it for anybody else.... unfortunately we’ve all come across people in life whose answer to every problem in life or every ‘perceived’ injustice is to ‘complain’ and point the finger at others who are successful and try to bring them down to their level it’s lazy but a lot easier than to address their ‘perceived’ injustice directly and probably saves some in psychologist fees if they can have a rant about it...lovely..

While X might have a bigger landmass, Dublin over the multiple clubs, teams, age groups, groups, both genders put in place what they need, with every variable and expense accounted for...

If X county don’t have what they need, go get it, lobby for it, get your facts, figures, sales pitch together... to work FOR you... if some joker came up to me in a meeting.... and instead of ‘we need’... THIS AMOUNT because of plans... plan A, B C to maintain and improve the sports and facilitate their running in the county I get... “well you gave Dublin 123456... so we want more !, give them less” I’ll give you more, your bus fare...

People won’t get anywhere or anything without going into bat for themselves....
we have all worked with those people who instead of looking at how they can improve, be well placed by virtue of their own effort and performance , instead look to see how they can run others down all the time, take what others have instead of making improvements themselves... same in this scenario. It’s lazy, very lazy, see through too. Ohhh dear.

Enquiring

ArielAtom wrote: »

Some of the figures that are put in the argument to you are so skewed you could call them blatant lies. 4 million spent by Dublin GAA on coaching is a lie. The average contribution to GDO/GPO is 20k. As has been stated there are approx 70 GDO/GPO, maths must not be a strong point, but my figures come out approx 1.4m. The clubs make up the shortfall. So the figure of 4m is a downright lie. Using inflated figures to try and justify an argument is really silly and shows the level some will manipulate figures to further their poorly constructed point.

This is an ironic post from someone who has posted the lies that the special Dublin funding only began in 2007 and that it ended in 2017 and that the funding was only for primary school children.

Now he is calling the Dublin county board chairman John Costello a liar. John has stated that Dublin spent 3.8 million on games development in 2019. Is the Dublin county board chairman a liar?

Enquiring

Strumms wrote: »

Poor effort? Well, I’m not in need of your approval, I’m not in the slightest bit interested in your appraisal of ‘effort’... if X county are not satisfied with the levels of funding which they receive. They should lift the phone, they should write emails, they should schedule zoom meetings... put forward a case..to be in receipt of more funding..

They should lift the bar for themselves as opposed to attempting to lower it for anybody else.... unfortunately we’ve all come across people in life whose answer to every problem in life or every ‘perceived’ injustice is to ‘complain’ and point the finger at others who are successful and try to bring them down to their level it’s lazy but a lot easier than to address their ‘perceived’ injustice directly and probably saves some in psychologist fees if they can have a rant about it...lovely..

While X might have a bigger landmass, Dublin over the multiple clubs, teams, age groups, groups, both genders put in place what they need, with every variable and expense accounted for...

If X county don’t have what they need, go get it, lobby for it, get your facts, figures, sales pitch together... to work FOR you... if some joker came up to me in a meeting.... and instead of ‘we need’... THIS AMOUNT because of plans... plan A, B C to maintain and improve the sports and facilitate their running in the county I get... “well you gave Dublin 123456... so we want more !, give them less” I’ll give you more, your bus fare...

People won’t get anywhere or anything without going into bat for themselves....
we have all worked with those people who instead of looking at how they can improve, be well placed by virtue of their own effort and performance , instead look to see how they can run others down all the time, take what others have instead of making improvements themselves... same in this scenario. It’s lazy, very lazy, see through too. Ohhh dear.

That's a long post saying virtually nothing. Other counties have gone to HQ and had the door slammed in their face. That's why this is a scandal. The scheme planned and funded for Dublin is a great scheme. It has done wonders for Dublin GAA and that is great. Why wasnt this introduced across the country at the same time?

That's why the split has to happen. It was a Dublin only scheme and the snowball effect of it has left Dublin in an unattainable position. A professional organisation spending over 2 million on salaries alone every year. Time for the split.

Strumms

Enquiring wrote: »

That's a long post saying virtually nothing. Other counties have gone to HQ and had the door slammed in their face. That's why this is a scandal. The scheme planned and funded for Dublin is a great scheme. It has done wonders for Dublin GAA and that is great. Why wasnt this introduced across the country at the same time?

That's why the split has to happen. It was a Dublin only scheme and the snowball effect of it has left Dublin in an unattainable position. A professional organisation spending over 2 million on salaries alone every year. Time for the split.

Well, it’s a long post, which you were motivated to and took the trouble to reply to. So it must say something, or you are basically talking to yourself, which erm, anyway...

Unfortunately for ya we can’t split Dublin, can’t split Galway, Waterford, can’t split Bayern Munich, New York Yankees, or the race horse Authentic... all sporting entities, hugely successful, hugely revered, hugely authentic and enjoyed by people across the globe...millions cheer on and enjoy the success of Dublin, across the globe, if you don’t, well you live in a democracy...you have that right, and as long as we live in a democracy there will be the right to support Dublin and a right for them to work for and strive for success.... . Don’t want to see it ? Move to China, where it’s acceptable to dictate what can and can’t be done, what can and can’t be enjoyed...

Iscreamkone

The question that must be asked is - are we happy going forward to let one team win the vast majority of titles. Dublin will get caught sooner or later, but it's likely that they will bounce back and start winning ad nauseum again.
In fairness I admire their excellence. However, the vast majority of counties have no chance of competing with them and the few that can compete will come and go as their own cycle of ability comes to an end after a few years.
It will get boring (some will say that has already happened). This will affect everyone's income streams.

The GAA is unique in that weaker counties can't buy in talent like football teams can. So the bigger counties because of their population, if organised, have a huge advantage from day one. Dublin GAA is now super organised so the smaller counties can't get an advantage by being more organised than them - there will always be a gap. Only a sporting fluke will close the gap at the moment. And this will only be momentarily.

What we have is a Celtic/Rangers scenario but in our case there is only one giant.

Enquiring

Strumms wrote: »

Well, it’s a long post, which you were motivated to and took the trouble to reply to. So it must say something, or you are basically talking to yourself, which erm, anyway...

Unfortunately for ya we can’t split Dublin, can’t split Galway, Waterford, can’t split Bayern Munich, New York Yankees, or the race horse Authentic... all sporting entities, hugely successful, hugely revered, hugely authentic and enjoyed by people across the globe...millions cheer on and enjoy the success of Dublin, across the globe, if you don’t, well you live in a democracy...you have that right, and as long as we live in a democracy there will be the right to support Dublin and a right for them to work for and strive for success.... . Don’t want to see it ? Move to China, where it’s acceptable to dictate what can and can’t be done, what can and can’t be enjoyed...

I was respectfully engaging with you despite your odd posts.

Dublin gaining success would be great if it was done with the fair and equitable split of funding.
It wasn't and it's left us in this position.

Gaelic games being the number one sport in our capital is something that all GAA people want. This will still be the goal when the split occurs. In fact, splitting will assist in fighting that battle. There's too many negatives being posted about splitting Dublin. It's a positive both for those within the new counties and for the rest of the island.

More players will have access to inter county competitions, each county board can target areas within their county more effectively. Disadvantaged areas will reap the benefits of this. Getting young people involved in GAA instead of gangs in places like the inner city would be a main goal for the Dublin City county board. Look at the benefits for a place like Ballymun.

You're looking at this in the wrong way. The split will be great for GAA in Dublin.

blanch152

Enquiring wrote: »

The funding helped increase participation but it also targeted elite development. A senior member of the Dublin system noted the transformation in standards of development squads from prior to the funding to post funding. He put that down to the gdo's.

On field success of course leads to increased sponsorship. How can you argue otherwise? Having the revenue available to hire marketing managers alone would lead to that. Having your development system funded for you frees up extra funds.

The rise in standards across the board has been incredible. Not just the senior footballers. The hurlers have gone from minnows to serious competitors. The Dublin ladies team have transformed into a dominant force like their male equivalents. Dublin club teams have also seen a huge increase in results. 2 All Ireland club hurling titles, that would have been unthinkable prior to the funding.

2 decades of funding disparity has left Dublin in an advantage position on and off the field. I've informed you of the figures available for Dublin GAA. These are amateur games we're discussing here, I don't see any reasonable argument for allowing one county to operate on a professional level with huge sums of money available to them in an amateur sport.

The bit in bold is simply not true. Your post implicitly recognises this by quoting the opinion of a single person on the issue.

The funding has been directed, continues to be directed and will be directed at juvenile participation. This is mainly done in schools and is a positive contribution to the mental and physical wellbeing of the children of this state. Long may that continue.

Enquiring

blanch152 wrote: »

The bit in bold is simply not true. Your post implicitly recognises this by quoting the opinion of a single person on the issue.

The funding has been directed, continues to be directed and will be directed at juvenile participation. This is mainly done in schools and is a positive contribution to the mental and physical wellbeing of the children of this state. Long may that continue.

It's not just the opinion of one Dublin county board employee, it's the general consensus within Dublin GAA. The coaches do go to primary and secondary schools for player recruitment but their main role is within the clubs they are hired by. The clubs aren't paying half the coaches wages to become PE teachers.

The coaches are directed by their employers. This could involve coaching various teams, coaching other coaches, cúl camps etc but they also target elite development. It's a major part of their job as that's what their employers want, an increase in standards for their senior teams which will and has come from superior talent development systems.

Strumms

Enquiring wrote: »

I was respectfully engaging with you despite your odd posts.

Dublin gaining success would be great if it was done with the fair and equitable split of funding.
It wasn't and it's left us in this position.

Gaelic games being the number one sport in our capital is something that all GAA people want. This will still be the goal when the split occurs. In fact, splitting will assist in fighting that battle. There's too many negatives being posted about splitting Dublin. It's a positive both for those within the new counties and for the rest of the island.

More players will have access to inter county competitions, each county board can target areas within their county more effectively. Disadvantaged areas will reap the benefits of this. Getting young people involved in GAA instead of gangs in places like the inner city would be a main goal for the Dublin City county board. Look at the benefits for a place like Ballymun.

You're looking at this in the wrong way. The split will be great for GAA in Dublin.

Odd ? you need to look a little closer to home

There are many negatives about splitting Dublin, because there is nothing fair or positive about it.

New counties ? No, 33 / 34 counties is grand. You don’t get to rearrange the map, invent new counties or redraw sporting boundaries of a county championship because you dislike the success that one county is enjoying currently... sorry, life doesn’t dance attendance on your mad little whims or toys out of the park dalliances with the downright bizarre... but you made me laugh which is something..
... . Good job.

Enquiring

Strumms wrote: »

Odd ? you need to look a little closer to home

There are many negatives about splitting Dublin, because there is nothing fair or positive about it.

New counties ? No, 33 / 34 counties is grand. You don’t get to rearrange the map, invent new counties or redraw sporting boundaries of a county championship because you dislike the success that one county is enjoying currently... sorry, life doesn’t dance attendance on your mad little whims or toys out of the park dalliances with the downright bizarre... but you made me laugh which is something..
... . Good job.

I've outlined some of the positives. It would also create some new rivalries which is always good for any sport. New local derbies in Dublin, Meath v Fingal, Kildare v South Dublin, Wicklow v Dún Laoighaire/Rathdown.

It's not just me that us calling for it. The momentum behind this is growing. Even the president of the GAA and the chairman of the Leinster council at the time the enormous funding was granted have admitted that something drastic must be done before it's too late.

dunnerc

Iscreamkone wrote: »

The question that must be asked is - are we happy going forward to let one team win the vast majority of titles. Dublin will get caught sooner or later, but it's likely that they will bounce back and start winning ad nauseum again.
In fairness I admire their excellence. However, the vast majority of counties have no chance of competing with them and the few that can compete will come and go as their own cycle of ability comes to an end after a few years.
It will get boring (some will say that has already happened). This will affect everyone's income streams.

The GAA is unique in that weaker counties can't buy in talent like football teams can. So the bigger counties because of their population, if organised, have a huge advantage from day one. Dublin GAA is now super organised so the smaller counties can't get an advantage by being more organised than them - there will always be a gap. Only a sporting fluke will close the gap at the moment. And this will only be momentarily.

What we have is a Celtic/Rangers scenario but in our case there is only one giant.

One giant ? :rolleyes:

Kerry : 81 Munster Titles - 37 All Ireland Titles

Dublin :59 Leinster Titles - 30 All Ireland Titles

dunnerc

Enquiring wrote: »

That's a long post saying virtually nothing. Other counties have gone to HQ and had the door slammed in their face. That's why this is a scandal. The scheme planned and funded for Dublin is a great scheme. It has done wonders for Dublin GAA and that is great. Why wasnt this introduced across the country at the same time?

That's why the split has to happen. It was a Dublin only scheme and the snowball effect of it has left Dublin in an unattainable position. A professional organisation spending over 2 million on salaries alone every year. Time for the split.

Again you can say it as many times as you like
Dublin will not agree to a split.

Enquiring

dunnerc wrote: »

One giant ? :rolleyes:

Kerry : 81 Munster Titles - 37 All Ireland Titles

Dublin :59 Leinster Titles - 30 All Ireland Titles

Kerry didn't have a plan created and funded to the tune of millions for them. If they did, calls for them to be split would be growing also.

Enquiring

dunnerc wrote: »

Again you can say it as many times as you like
Dublin will not agree to a split.

Unfortunately, Dublin GAA agreed to accept the millions granted to them. They knew that it would lead to this. They followed the plan drawn up for them apart from the splitting part. It's not a choice, for Gaelic games to prosper the split has to happen. There is no way around it. The benefits for everyone have already been outlined.

Iscreamkone

dunnerc wrote: »

One giant ? :rolleyes:

Kerry : 81 Munster Titles - 37 All Ireland Titles

Dublin :59 Leinster Titles - 30 All Ireland Titles

You are correct. However, this is ancient history.
Dublin are now at a level that smaller counties can't match them off the field and the population disparity means that they can't be matched for producing numbers of quality athletes.

A blind man can see where this is going.

As an aside - there are a lot of inter-county standard players in Dublin who are prevented from playing inter-county because there is only 15 places available for 1.5 million people.

dunnerc

Enquiring wrote: »

Kerry didn't have a plan created and funded to the tune of millions for them. If they did, calls for them to be split would be growing also.

Whats that got to do with one giant ? :rolleyes:

Strumms

Enquiring wrote: »

Unfortunately, Dublin GAA agreed to accept the millions granted to them. They knew that it would lead to this. They followed the plan drawn up for them apart from the splitting part. It's not a choice, for Gaelic games to prosper the split has to happen. There is no way around it. The benefits for everyone have already been outlined.

Nope, sorry, not happening

You can say a sea lion will be refereeing the senior football final, repeating it wont make it true... :eek:

It’s an inter County Championship, not intra area or location championship...

Iscreamkone

Kerry has a population that is 10% of Dublin's. Kerry might be one of the few who could beat Dublin, but could they go toe to toe over a 10 year period? Not a chance.
Cork with a population of 33% of Dublin's might be the best bet (if they ever get organised).

Strumms

Iscreamkone wrote: »

You are correct. However, this is ancient history.
Dublin are now at a level that smaller counties can't match them off the field and the population disparity means that they can't be matched for producing numbers of quality athletes.

A blind man can see where this is going.

As an aside - there are a lot of inter-county standard players in Dublin who are prevented from playing inter-county because there is only 15 places available for 1.5 million people.

In 1985, there were around 1 million people and still 15 places.

543000 people live in cork county now , still only 15 places.

Sure why not split Cork, give more people a chance

Enquiring

dunnerc wrote: »

Whats that got to do with one giant ? :rolleyes:

I'm just explaining to you why the split must happen.

Enquiring

Strumms wrote: »

Nope, sorry, not happening

You can say a sea lion will be refereeing the senior football final, repeating it wont make it true... :eek:

It’s an inter County Championship, not intra area or location championship...

As you pointed out before. It's up to those interested in fair play and the health of our games need to stand up for ourselves and demand this. Protests etc may need to happen. The future of our games depend on completely changing the landscape of Gaelic games. Splitting Dublin is only one part of it. Without massive change, football and hurling will continue to decline in many counties.

Iscreamkone

Strumms wrote: »

In 1985, there were around 1 million people and still 15 places.

543000 people live in cork county now , still only 15 places.

Sure why not split Cork, give more people a chance

If one single Dail constituency's population got too big then the lines would be redrawn. By not redrawing the lines re Dublin, the GAA are gerrymandering. Not a term that the GAA would like to be accused of, I'd imagine?

dunnerc

Iscreamkone wrote: »

You are correct. However, this is ancient history.
Dublin are now at a level that smaller counties can't match them off the field and the population disparity means that they can't be matched for producing numbers of quality athletes.

A blind man can see where this is going.

As an aside - there are a lot of inter-county standard players in Dublin who are prevented from playing inter-county because there is only 15 places available for 1.5 million people.

Ancient history ? Really ! rolleyes:
All in the last 7 Years

2019 Dublin 1-16 0-19 Kerry
2017 Dublin 1-17 1-16 Mayo
2016 Dublin 2-09 0-15 Mayo
2016 Dublin 1-15 1-14 Mayo
2015 Dublin 0-12 0-09 Kerry
2014 Dublin 0-17 3-14 Donegal

The above Counties gave Dublin plenty of trouble

Dublin always had a population advantage

The population of Dublin is 1,242,000 million

Enquiring

Strumms wrote: »

In 1985, there were around 1 million people and still 15 places.

543000 people live in cork county now , still only 15 places.

Sure why not split Cork, give more people a chance

Have Cork received millions of euros more than anyone else for player development? Have they received half of what Dublin received even? Not even close. Cork had 6 coaches to look after more clubs in a far wider geographical area than Dublin.

When you look at it like that, it's very clear as to why the calls for Dublin to be split is justified but calls to split Cork are just deflectionary tactics.

Strumms

Enquiring wrote: »

As you pointed out before. It's up to those interested in fair play and the health of our games need to stand up for ourselves and demand this. Protests etc may need to happen. The future of our games depend on completely changing the landscape of Gaelic games. Splitting Dublin is only one part of it. Without massive change, football and hurling will continue to decline in many counties.

I simply never pointed out splits .. if the sport is decline in x county, they need to stand up, man up, organize themselves and not worry about what’s going on in other counties unless it’s as a template as how they must strive and work to improve... as sports people, administrators and indeed people...

Enquiring

Iscreamkone wrote: »

If one single Dail constituency's population got too big then the lines would be redrawn. By not redrawing the lines re Dublin, the GAA are gerrymandering. Not a term that the GAA would like to be accused of, I'd imagine?

The lines are already redrawn. The 4 counties in Dublin already exist.

dunnerc

Enquiring wrote: »

I'm just explaining to you why the split must happen.

Again you can say it as many times as you want
Dublin will not agree to a split

SheepsClothing

Iscreamkone wrote: »

You are correct. However, this is ancient history.
Dublin are now at a level that smaller counties can't match them off the field and the population disparity means that they can't be matched for producing numbers of quality athletes.

A blind man can see where this is going.

As an aside - there are a lot of inter-county standard players in Dublin who are prevented from playing inter-county because there is only 15 places available for 1.5 million people.

Even economically, keeping Dublin as a single province sized team, doesn't make sense anymore. We have reached the point where a Leinster final between Dublin City and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown would draw a much larger crowd than a Dublin - Meath final.

dunnerc

Enquiring wrote: »

The lines are already redrawn. The 4 counties in Dublin already exist.

Dublin GAA is one County only

SheepsClothing

Strumms wrote: »

Nope, sorry, not happening

You can say a sea lion will be refereeing the senior football final, repeating it wont make it true... :eek:

It’s an inter County Championship, not intra area or location championship...

I didn't know London and New York were counties. Good to learn something new.

dunnerc

SheepsClothing wrote: »

Even economically, keeping Dublin as a single province sized team, doesn't make sense anymore. We have reached the point where a Leinster final between Dublin City and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown would draw a much larger crowd than a Dublin - Meath final.

I think not , Dublin GAA is one County only

blanch152

Enquiring wrote: »

It's not just the opinion of one Dublin county board employee, it's the general consensus within Dublin GAA. The coaches do go to primary and secondary schools for player recruitment but their main role is within the clubs they are hired by. The clubs aren't paying half the coaches wages to become PE teachers.

The coaches are directed by their employers. This could involve coaching various teams, coaching other coaches, cúl camps etc but they also target elite development. It's a major part of their job as that's what their employers want, an increase in standards for their senior teams which will and has come from superior talent development systems.

Well, I am sorry, this post just exposes your lack of knowledge on the issue.

The GDOs don't just go to primary and secondary schools for player recruitment - nearly all of their work is in primary and secondary schools.

Elite player development is not part of their remit.

Where you are getting confused is with what those GDOs do as part of their job and separately as part of their voluntary time. The GAA in Dublin is driven forward nearly entirely by the work of volunteers. So if a GDO in a school helps out in his local club on a Tuesday night training the U-21s, that isn't the GAA or anyone else paying for him to do that, that is him volunteering. He would have been doing that whether he was a GDO or a teacher or a Garda.

dunnerc

SheepsClothing wrote: »

I didn't know London and New York were counties. Good to learn something new.

Well done you

Enquiring

Strumms wrote: »

I simply never pointed out splits .. if the sport is decline in x county, they need to stand up, man up, organize themselves and not worry about what’s going on in other counties unless it’s as a template as how they must strive and work to improve... as sports people, administrators and indeed people...

Yes, all counties should demand fair funding as one of the key elements of this movement. Splitting Dublin is central to it as well though. Without that, we would be allowing one county compete on a professional basis. It would be contrary to the ideals of fair play.

Enquiring

dunnerc wrote: »

Again you can say it as many times as you want
Dublin will not agree to a split

They'll have to. There's no other option.

dunnerc

Enquiring wrote: »

They'll have to. There's no other option.

No harm in dreaming

Enquiring

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, I am sorry, this post just exposes your lack of knowledge on the issue.

The GDOs don't just go to primary and secondary schools for player recruitment - nearly all of their work is in primary and secondary schools.

Elite player development is not part of their remit.

Where you are getting confused is with what those GDOs do as part of their job and separately as part of their voluntary time. The GAA in Dublin is driven forward nearly entirely by the work of volunteers. So if a GDO in a school helps out in his local club on a Tuesday night training the U-21s, that isn't the GAA or anyone else paying for him to do that, that is him volunteering. He would have been doing that whether he was a GDO or a teacher or a Garda.

So you are claiming that clubs in Dublin are paying for glorified PE teachers? This goes against statements from senior Dublin county board members. They state clearly that the coaches work under the direction of the clubs who hire them. Should we believe the Dublin county board members or a poster who wants to brush two decades of funding disparity under the carpet?

Iscreamkone

Strumms wrote: »

I simply never pointed out splits .. if the sport is decline in x county, they need to stand up, man up, organize themselves and not worry about what’s going on in other counties unless it’s as a template as how they must strive and work to improve... as sports people, administrators and indeed people...

When you say man up - I would say that some of the smaller counties are doing very well. Kerry with only 10% of Dublin's population create more quality players per 100,000 pop than Dublin. However, Kerry will find it hard to multiply their output further.

There will always be a gap because the population differences are so big. And the difference between urban and rural populations will only get bigger with time.

dunnerc

Iscreamkone wrote: »

When you say man up - I would say that some of the smaller counties are doing very well. Kerry with only 10% of Dublin's population create more quality players per 100,000 pop than Dublin. However, Kerry will find it hard to multiply their output further.

There will always be a gap because the population differences are so big. And the difference between urban and rural populations will only get bigger with time.

We could merge Cork and Kerry

blanch152

Enquiring wrote: »

So you are claiming that clubs in Dublin are paying for glorified PE teachers? This goes against statements from senior Dublin county board members. They state clearly that the coaches work under the direction of the clubs who hire them. Should we believe the Dublin county board members or a poster who wants to brush two decades of funding disparity under the carpet?

I have seen the work done in special schools by GDOs, calling them glorified PE teachers, reducing them to trainers of the elite are huge insults to their work.

The majority of kids coached by GDOs won't end up in GAA clubs, many GDOs will never see a kid coached by them reach a county team, that is the reality, because their work is about mass participation, not about building a better senior team.

I am leaving it there.

Enquiring

blanch152 wrote: »

I have seen the work done in special schools by GDOs, calling them glorified PE teachers, reducing them to trainers of the elite are huge insults to their work.

The majority of kids coached by GDOs won't end up in GAA clubs, many GDOs will never see a kid coached by them reach a county team, that is the reality, because their work is about mass participation, not about building a better senior team.

I am leaving it there.

You're not arguing against me here. You're arguing against Dublin county board members including the Strategic development officer. They've stated what the gdo's do and the benefits achieved for development squads.

The gdo's do go to primary and secondary schools but their main task is improving standards within their club. That's the bottom line.

ooter

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Dublin GAA is now super organised so the smaller counties can't get an advantage by being more organised than them - there will always be a gap.

Smaller counties beat dublin in senior hurling on a regular basis, there will always be a gap there.

blanch152

Enquiring wrote: »

You're not arguing against me here. You're arguing against Dublin county board members including the Strategic development officer. They've stated what the gdo's do and the benefits achieved for development squads.

The gdo's do go to primary and secondary schools but their main task is improving standards within their club. That's the bottom line.

I am talking about the reality on the ground, not what somebody higher up is reputed to have said.

Enquiring

blanch152 wrote: »

I am talking about the reality on the ground, not what somebody higher up is reputed to have said.

Oh dear, you're doubling down on this. You do know the role of the Strategic development officer? It's his job to oversee all of this, his job to know exactly where the development money is going and the work done under the games development banner. It's literally his exact job but you're claiming to know better than him. He states that the coaches role is under the direction of the clubs. His name is Kevin O'Shaughnessy and here are some direct quotes: "The coaches work very much in tune with what the particular club wants." And on their qualifications: "It is a high standard that allows them to train the trainers in each club to a high quality."

That's not enough for you? How about former coaching and games officer for Dublin GAA; Ger O'Connor: "The coaches don't just concentrate on hurling or football. They organise everything within a club and camogie and ladies football get the benefit too."

Still not enough? You want someone on the ground right? How about someone who's been there throughout this whole operation? Long serving Dublin GAA GPO Pauric McDonald had this to say on his observation of Dublin development squads from when he set out 2 decades ago to the current time: "I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching. I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin."

All of this goes against your claim that it's all about juvenile participation. Do you have the contact details of the Dublin county board so you can correct them on this?

blanch152

Enquiring wrote: »

Oh dear, you're doubling down on this. You do know the role of the Strategic development officer? It's his job to oversee all of this, his job to know exactly where the development money is going and the work done under the games development banner. It's literally his exact job but you're claiming to know better than him. He states that the coaches role is under the direction of the clubs. His name is Kevin O'Shaughnessy and here are some direct quotes: "The coaches work very much in tune with what the particular club wants." And on their qualifications: "It is a high standard that allows them to train the trainers in each club to a high quality."

That's not enough for you? How about former coaching and games officer for Dublin GAA; Ger O'Connor: "The coaches don't just concentrate on hurling or football. They organise everything within a club and camogie and ladies football get the benefit too."

Still not enough? You want someone on the ground right? How about someone who's been there throughout this whole operation? Long serving Dublin GAA GPO Pauric McDonald had this to say on his observation of Dublin development squads from when he set out 2 decades ago to the current time: "I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching. I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin."

All of this goes against your claim that it's all about juvenile participation. Do you have the contact details of the Dublin county board so you can correct them on this?

Not a single link to the quotations taken out of context, and the clear contradictions in everything you are posting is plain and obvious.

Everything in your post is about the coaching of kids, the improvement of the volunteer coaches that leads to the improvement in enjoyment for kids who can handle the basic skill of kicking a ball.

What your quotes are showing is that GDOs are working to ensure that coaching a 12-year old to hand-pass the ball and kick out of hands rather than along the ground so that they can get more enjoyment out of the game. That is exactly what I am saying.

You are extrapolating that to mean that somehow the Dublin senior football team is better as a result. At the best of times, that is a stretch.

It is unbelievable that you are so dead against ordinary kids being coached properly to kick and hand-pass the ball so that they can enjoy the game.

ArielAtom

blanch152 wrote: »

Not a single link to the quotations taken out of context, and the clear contradictions in everything you are posting is plain and obvious.

Everything in your post is about the coaching of kids, the improvement of the volunteer coaches that leads to the improvement in enjoyment for kids who can handle the basic skill of kicking a ball.

What your quotes are showing is that GDOs are working to ensure that coaching a 12-year old to hand-pass the ball and kick out of hands rather than along the ground so that they can get more enjoyment out of the game. That is exactly what I am saying.

You are extrapolating that to mean that somehow the Dublin senior football team is better as a result. At the best of times, that is a stretch.

It is unbelievable that you are so dead against ordinary kids being coached properly to kick and hand-pass the ball so that they can enjoy the game.

Blanch, what you are trying to do is logic with a person who refuses. It’s a losing battle. I posted links to a GPO on Twitter that very much backed up what you are saying but one poster picked up on “and occasionally go into secondary schools”. I have 1st hand experience in it since the Dublin only program that contrary to our resident contrarian ran from 2007 to 2017, the GDO was so stretched that we only saw him at our sessions for a max of 5 over a 7yr period. Elite coaching my arse, trying to teach parents with no GAA background to coach is a thankless task, if that’s another of their tasks. It does not suit some posters rhetoric to recognise that. It’s all about funding and splitting, probably to ensure their own county become competitive again. One poster even did similar in the rugby forum before landing in here, just posted drivel with no backup.

Enquiring

blanch152 wrote: »

Not a single link to the quotations taken out of context, and the clear contradictions in everything you are posting is plain and obvious.

Everything in your post is about the coaching of kids, the improvement of the volunteer coaches that leads to the improvement in enjoyment for kids who can handle the basic skill of kicking a ball.

What your quotes are showing is that GDOs are working to ensure that coaching a 12-year old to hand-pass the ball and kick out of hands rather than along the ground so that they can get more enjoyment out of the game. That is exactly what I am saying.

You are extrapolating that to mean that somehow the Dublin senior football team is better as a result. At the best of times, that is a stretch.

It is unbelievable that you are so dead against ordinary kids being coached properly to kick and hand-pass the ball so that they can enjoy the game.

As I said, you will need to contact the Dublin county board and let them know that you know more than the appointed Strategic development manager and other highly experienced Dublin GAA employees.

Contrary to your claim, the main role of the coaches is within the clubs their appointed to. Improving standards within the club, that's playing standards and coaching standards, is their priority. This obviously leads to a higher degree of talent within the club. These players get selected for development squads. You don't appear to know what a development squad is? It's basically elite development, the best players from the clubs are brought in to train with each other at their age level. The changes in standards of these development squads have been dramatic. Pauric McDonald puts it down to the GDO's.

Now, where do these development squads go? They move up their age groups and eventually we get to minor and u20 level. Here we have seen an incredible change in fortunes in Dublin GAA. Dublin won 12 titles in hurling and football at these age groups between 1980 and 2000, they have won 37 titles between 2000-2020. And guess what? These players eventually become overage for u20 football and hurling, what happens then? They move up to senior level.

The landscape has also changed there. The players that have come through the system under the GDO's have led to a major increase in titles. Dublin clubs won 8 titles including 1 All Ireland between 1980 and 2000 in hurling and football, between 2000 and 2020, Dublin clubs have won 19 titles including 6 All Ireland's. I haven't even included Ladies football in there which adds to the evidence further.

Does it end there? Where do inter county teams get their players from? It wouldn't be clubs within their county, would it? I don't think you'll need me to go into detail here but the transformation of Dublin at senior level has been just as incredible as with underage football and hurling and club football and hurling. You can't buy players in GAA so having a highly financed elite player development system is the next best thing. Dublin have 30,000 or less registered players aged between 8-18, these are the targets for elite development. The GDO's have made a huge difference across Dublin GAA. The results speak for themselves.

Why do you think Dublin should have had this elite talent system financed for them for 2 decades while every other county got very little?

Enquiring

ArielAtom wrote: »

Blanch, what you are trying to do is logic with a person who refuses. It’s a losing battle. I posted links to a GPO on Twitter that very much backed up what you are saying but one poster picked up on “and occasionally go into secondary schools”. I have 1st hand experience in it since the Dublin only program that contrary to our resident contrarian ran from 2007 to 2017, the GDO was so stretched that we only saw him at our sessions for a max of 5 over a 7yr period. Elite coaching my arse, trying to teach parents with no GAA background to coach is a thankless task, if that’s another of their tasks. It does not suit some posters rhetoric to recognise that. It’s all about funding and splitting, probably to ensure their own county become competitive again. One poster even did similar in the rugby forum before landing in here, just posted drivel with no backup.

I remember that, it was back when you were claiming the GDO's were just for primary school children. I then had a look at the twitter account you were saying only posted facts. Unfortunately for you, the facts they posted went completely against your claims!

The twitter account pointed out that the GPO's role involved more than going into primary schools. It also involved going into secondary schools, it involved coaching other coaches, it involved things such as cúl camps and it also involved advanced level camps and other roles within the club.

Your 2007-2017 claim has also been proven to be nonsense. That's the thing with facts, when someone has them, they can easily expose the lies and you've been exposed really, really badly.

Iscreamkone

If we were starting the GAA from scratch today would we develop a competition where there is a such a huge inequality in resources and population size to select from? Of course not, it would be ridiculous.

blanch152

ArielAtom wrote: »

Blanch, what you are trying to do is logic with a person who refuses. It’s a losing battle. I posted links to a GPO on Twitter that very much backed up what you are saying but one poster picked up on “and occasionally go into secondary schools”. I have 1st hand experience in it since the Dublin only program that contrary to our resident contrarian ran from 2007 to 2017, the GDO was so stretched that we only saw him at our sessions for a max of 5 over a 7yr period. Elite coaching my arse, trying to teach parents with no GAA background to coach is a thankless task, if that’s another of their tasks. It does not suit some posters rhetoric to recognise that. It’s all about funding and splitting, probably to ensure their own county become competitive again. One poster even did similar in the rugby forum before landing in here, just posted drivel with no backup.

I fully agree with you.

I really struggle with somebody trying to reduce the enjoyment of ordinary kids playing the game because of senior inter-county football.

Fundamentally, the GAA is about the club, about the juvenile players, about the sense of community. The work that the GDOs are doing is centred around all of that.

Does the work of the GDOs increase the chances of better players coming through? Yes, it contributes in a small way. Does the work of the GDOs guarantee a successful senior inter-county team? No, it doesn't because the effects of the work of the GDO are marginal.

Is the work of the GDOs the fundamental difference that saw Dublin win six-in-a-row? No, it absolutely isn't.