The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

ShyMets

Iscreamkone wrote: »

If we were starting the GAA from scratch today would we develop a competition where there is a such a huge inequality in resources and population size to select from? Of course not, it would be ridiculous.

Fully agree. Using County boundaries makes zero sense. You would base it on population size. Basically you need x number of people in a geographically area to maintain a competitive team.

This would entail splits and amalgamations. But while some posters are happy to split Dublin, they seem reluctant to countenance amalgamations.

That does make me wonder

Enquiring

ShyMets wrote: »

Fully agree. Using County boundaries makes zero sense. You would base it on population size. Basically you need x number of people in a geographically area to maintain a competitive team.

This would entail splits and amalgamations. But while some posters are happy to split Dublin, they seem reluctant to countenance amalgamations.

That does make me wonder

The split has to happen because of the financial disparity, you know this, I know this, we all know this.

The facts and figures have all been presented here and the defenders of the millions of euros granted to Dublin have failed to counteract any of them. The only defence included busted myths, lies, deflection and disagreements with statements from members of the Dublin county board.

Some want to ignore 2 decades worth of funding disparity. They want to brush it under the carpet. Otherwise they'd have to admit to the reality of it which they find very uncomfortable. The rest of us don't have to ignore it though. We know why Dublin have won 100 titles post funding. We can't allow a county to continue to compete on a professional basis.

ShyMets

Enquiring wrote: »

The split has to happen because of the financial disparity, you know this, I know this, we all know this.

The facts and figures have all been presented here and the defenders of the millions of euros granted to Dublin have failed to counteract any of them. The only defence included busted myths, lies, deflection and disagreements with statements from members of the Dublin county board.

Some want to ignore 2 decades worth of funding disparity. They want to brush it under the carpet. Otherwise they'd have to admit to the reality of it which they find very uncomfortable. The rest of us don't have to ignore it though. We know why Dublin have won 100 titles post funding. We can't allow a county to continue to compete on a professional basis.

Thank you for responding and ignoring the points I was making.

I want you to know that you're posts are important to me. Please keep posting

Lost Ormond

Iscreamkone wrote: »

If we were starting the GAA from scratch today would we develop a competition where there is a such a huge inequality in resources and population size to select from? Of course not, it would be ridiculous.

Maybe we wouldnt but there's huge inequalities in resources and population size in vast majority of sports and competitions between teams. GAA is no different.

blanch152 wrote: »

I fully agree with you.

I really struggle with somebody trying to reduce the enjoyment of ordinary kids playing the game because of senior inter-county football.

Fundamentally, the GAA is about the club, about the juvenile players, about the sense of community. The work that the GDOs are doing is centred around all of that.

Does the work of the GDOs increase the chances of better players coming through? Yes, it contributes in a small way. Does the work of the GDOs guarantee a successful senior inter-county team? No, it doesn't because the effects of the work of the GDO are marginal.

Is the work of the GDOs the fundamental difference that saw Dublin win six-in-a-row? No, it absolutely isn't.

It doesnt make sense but its to be expected. Development officers are needed in more places. That doesnt mean Dublin should be criticised heavily for having them in place. More assistance to some other counties especially on the dublin commuter belt has to be done asap

Enquiring wrote: »

The split has to happen because of the financial disparity, you know this, I know this, we all know this.

The facts and figures have all been presented here and the defenders of the millions of euros granted to Dublin have failed to counteract any of them. The only defence included busted myths, lies, deflection and disagreements with statements from members of the Dublin county board.

Some want to ignore 2 decades worth of funding disparity. They want to brush it under the carpet. Otherwise they'd have to admit to the reality of it which they find very uncomfortable. The rest of us don't have to ignore it though. We know why Dublin have won 100 titles post funding. We can't allow a county to continue to compete on a professional basis.

We dont because finances alone do not make the best teams. Its all about best practices and money isnt necessarily needed for that to occur.

SheepsClothing

blanch152 wrote: »

Not a single link to the quotations taken out of context, and the clear contradictions in everything you are posting is plain and obvious.

Everything in your post is about the coaching of kids, the improvement of the volunteer coaches that leads to the improvement in enjoyment for kids who can handle the basic skill of kicking a ball.

What your quotes are showing is that GDOs are working to ensure that coaching a 12-year old to hand-pass the ball and kick out of hands rather than along the ground so that they can get more enjoyment out of the game. That is exactly what I am saying.

You are extrapolating that to mean that somehow the Dublin senior football team is better as a result. At the best of times, that is a stretch.

It is unbelievable that you are so dead against ordinary kids being coached properly to kick and hand-pass the ball so that they can enjoy the game.

So what you are saying is, driving massive number of kids and their parents into playing and volunteering in Dublin GAA has little to no benefit to the senior county team?

That's a wild claim.

Enquiring

ShyMets wrote: »

Thank you for responding and ignoring the points I was making.

I want you to know that you're posts are important to me. Please keep posting

I get the frustration, I really do. There is no justification for the funding disparity and we all know what it has led to. This is not an easy pill to swallow. It would be for a supporter of any county. It happened though, the Dublin county board accepted the money and they knew the day would come where the split had to happen.

I've said it before but the split is being looked at from a negative point of view. This needs to change. It's a positive development for everyone, especially those in Dublin.

SheepsClothing

ShyMets wrote: »

Fully agree. Using County boundaries makes zero sense. You would base it on population size. Basically you need x number of people in a geographically area to maintain a competitive team.

This would entail splits and amalgamations. But while some posters are happy to split Dublin, they seem reluctant to countenance amalgamations.

That does make me wonder

It shouldn't be that complicated. Splits are by their nature, less alienating than amalgamations. Somebody who was born and raised in the Fingal County Council area has been affiliated and thought of themselves as part of that area for much of/all of their life.

Somebody born and raised in Monaghan, has never affiliated themselves with being from Cavan, in fact they consider Cavan their rival. If suddenly, the Mavan senior football team is formed, that Monaghan supporter is going to have much harder time supporting the Mavan team, than the former Dublin supporter will have supporting Fingal.

There's also the fact that splitting Dublin is the path of least resistance to bringing about some semblance of competition. Splitting Dublin and disfranchising one counties support(I personally think it would drive support) for the benefit of the other 31, is easier than disenfranchising the other 31 counties in order to suit the one runaway train county.

Enquiring

Lost Ormond wrote: »

We dont because finances alone do not make the best teams. Its all about best practices and money isnt necessarily needed for that to occur.

We know it wasn't just the money, the detailed plan drawn up first followed by the money was key. The plan outlined key target areas, it outlined key appointments that needed to be made to oversee everything, obviously it made it clear the number of coaches needed to be increased hugely and the finance needed to support all of these new employees. It was a very detailed plan and a very good plan. It wouldn't have worked without the backing of huge finance from taxpayers and the GAA though.

Lost Ormond

SheepsClothing wrote: »

It shouldn't be that complicated. Splits are by their nature, less alienating than amalgamations. Somebody who was born and raised in the Fingal County Council area has been affiliated and thought of themselves as part of that area for much of/all of their life.

Somebody born and raised in Monaghan, has never affiliated themselves with being from Cavan, in fact they consider Cavan their rival. If suddenly, the Mavan senior football team is formed, that Monaghan supporter is going to have much harder time supporting the Mavan team, than the former Dublin supporter will have supporting Fingal.

There's also the fact that splitting Dublin is the path of least resistance to bringing about some semblance of competition. Splitting Dublin and disfranchising one counties support(I personally think it would drive support) for the benefit of the other 31, is easier than disenfranchising the other 31 counties in order to suit the one runaway train county.

But when would most in Fingal have ever really supported teams representing a Fingal team? When would they have supported and backed Fingal.
Splitting Dublin will do little to help the vast majority of counties and their fans and chances of success.
Someone born in North Tipp is in North Munster but that doesnt at all mean they will have an affiliation towards a North Munster team.

Iscreamkone

Let's give €100 million to Leitrim and see how they get on with it.
It's all about the population

ShyMets

Enquiring wrote: »

I get the frustration, I really do. There is no justification for the funding disparity and we all know what it has led to. This is not an easy pill to swallow. It would be for a supporter of any county. It happened though, the Dublin county board accepted the money and they knew the day would come where the split had to happen.

I've said it before but the sllit is being looked at from a negative point of view. This needs to change. It's a positive development for everyone, especially those in Dublin.

Right. So you've once again ignored the point I was making. Which is County boundaries make no sense. The current structure needs to be torn up. If we want a competitive game a Senior level base it on population size. Which would entail splits and amalgamations.

Simply splitting Dublin does very little for the majority of teams. And to quote your good self " you know this. I know this. We all know this".

Enquiring

SheepsClothing wrote: »

So what you are saying is, driving massive number of kids and their parents into playing and volunteering in Dublin GAA has little to no benefit to the senior county team?

That's a wild claim.

The claims they make are supported by statements supplied by...............themselves! It goes against testimony from senior Dublin county board officials.

Enquiring

Lost Ormond wrote: »

But when would most in Fingal have ever really supported teams representing a Fingal team? When would they have supported and backed Fingal.
Splitting Dublin will do little to help the vast majority of counties and their fans and chances of success.
Someone born in North Tipp is in North Munster but that doesnt at all mean they will have an affiliation towards a North Munster team.

It may be a little tricky for the first year but that will soon pass. When parents see their kids get an opportunity to represent their area at inter county level, the support will be instant. More clubs will have representatives at inter county level. It will really boost GAA in areas neglected by Dublin GAA. Local rivalries will bloom. Big crowds will attend these games. Plus, the county boundaries are already drawn. The 4 counties are ready to go!

Enquiring

ShyMets wrote: »

Right. So you've once again ignored the point I was making. Which is County boundaries make no sense. The current structure needs to be torn up. If we want a competitive game a Senior level base it on population size. Which would entail splits and amalgamations.

Simply splitting Dublin does very little for the majority of teams. And to quote your good self " you know this. I know this. We all know this".

You're just talking about football here. 22 counties have won provincial championships since the 90's. Directly prior to the Dublin funding taking effect, 5 other counties won Leinster championships. Last year we saw Cavan and Tipperary win provincial titles. Monaghan with a very small population have been competing at the top level. There is nothing wrong with senior football apart from one county receiving special treatment and being artificially placed at the top of the tree.

Yes, other counties need funding. That has to be done but first Dublin must be split.

Lost Ormond

ShyMets wrote: »

Right. So you've once again ignored the point I was making. Which is County boundaries make no sense. The current structure needs to be torn up. If we want a competitive game a Senior level base it on population size. Which would entail splits and amalgamations.

Simply splitting Dublin does very little for the majority of teams. And to quote your good self " you know this. I know this. We all know this".

County Boundaries may perfect sense and tie in with how the GAA is structured at club level.
In what sport are all teams split solely based on their population size?

Enquiring wrote: »

It may be a little tricky for the first year but that will soon pass. When parents see their kids get an opportunity to represent their area at inter county level, the support will be instant. More clubs will have representatives at inter county level. It will really boost GAA in areas neglected by Dublin GAA. Local rivalries will bloom. Big crowds will attend these games. Plus, the county boundaries are already drawn. The 4 counties are ready to go!

It would soon pass based on what exactly?
Look at welsh rugby and the problems theyve had with identity. Splitting teams or combining teams with extensive histories is fraught with difficulties and majority do not work successfully.

SheepsClothing

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Let's give €100 million to Leitrim and see how they get on with it.
It's all about the population

It's down to a population being exploited to it's maximum, due to an abundance of funding. Leitrim wouldn't win an all Ireland if they were funded as well as Dublin, but they would be the best Leitrim they could possibly be.

Enquiring

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Let's give €100 million to Leitrim and see how they get on with it.
It's all about the population

Leitrim won a provincial title in 1994. Are you saying minnows can't become competitive?

SheepsClothing

Lost Ormond wrote: »

County Boundaries may perfect sense and tie in with how the GAA is structured at club level.
In what sport are all teams split solely based on their population size?


It would soon pass based on what exactly?
Look at welsh rugby and the problems theyve had with identity. Splitting teams or combining teams with extensive histories is fraught with difficulties and majority do not work successfully.

The difference with Welsh rugby is, they didn't split or amalgamate, in so much as they just drew boundaries out of thin air. There are 4 existing boundaries in Dublin, with roughly similar populations. You'd even still have "The Dubs", in the form of the Dublin City team who could hold onto the sky blue jerseys.

Enquiring

Lost Ormond wrote: »

County Boundaries may perfect sense and tie in with how the GAA is structured at club level.
In what sport are all teams split solely based on their population size?


It would soon pass based on what exactly?
Look at welsh rugby and the problems theyve had with identity. Splitting teams or combining teams with extensive histories is fraught with difficulties and majority do not work successfully.

Based on what I just said. Local communities seeing more kids getting to play inter county football and that's the big thing, they will be representing their local area. There will be major rivalries between the 4 counties and with neighbouring counties. This attracts crowds. It will work.

Lost Ormond

SheepsClothing wrote: »

The difference with Welsh rugby is, they didn't split or amalgamate, in so much as they just drew boundaries out of thin air. There are 4 existing boundaries in Dublin, with roughly similar populations. You'd even still have "The Dubs", in the form of the Dublin City team who could hold onto the sky blue jerseys.

They did amalgamate though. Ospreys is an amalgamation of Neath and Swansea.
These boundaries exist but how much do people really pay attention to them/have a draw towards Fingal over South Dublin, Dublin city over Dun Laoghaire?
But jerseys alone. Why would or should the Dublin city team keep the Sky Blue jerseys over the other sides?
These sides all playing in Croke Park?
If this is to happen in the league as well? How do you address that?
Its not workable.
Can you name any sports that split teams like youre suggesting and it turned out into a success?

Enquiring

SheepsClothing wrote: »

The difference with Welsh rugby is, they didn't split or amalgamate, in so much as they just drew boundaries out of thin air. There are 4 existing boundaries in Dublin, with roughly similar populations. You'd even still have "The Dubs", in the form of the Dublin City team who could hold onto the sky blue jerseys.

It's already governed as 4 counties. It makes sense. People in Fingal are different to people in Dún Laoighaire/Rathdown. People from South Dublin are different to people in Dublin city.

The split is already there. Having 4 county boards trying to promote Gaelic games in their own area instead of one county board for 4 counties will be hugely beneficial. It will grow Gaelic games and we'll have a more open, vibrant championship. It's a win/win.

Enquiring

Lost Ormond wrote: »

They did amalgamate though. Ospreys is an amalgamation of Neath and Swansea.
These boundaries exist but how much do people really pay attention to them/have a draw towards Fingal over South Dublin, Dublin city over Dun Laoghaire?
But jerseys alone. Why would or should the Dublin city team keep the Sky Blue jerseys over the other sides?
These sides all playing in Croke Park?
If this is to happen in the league as well? How do you address that?
Its not workable.
Can you name any sports that split teams like youre suggesting and it turned out into a success?

In fairness, can you name any sport where the governing body funded one team above all others by the tune of millions? Drew up a detailed plan for them, funded it and allowed no one else access to the program.

SheepsClothing

Lost Ormond wrote: »

They did amalgamate though. Ospreys is an amalgamation of Neath and Swansea.
These boundaries exist but how much do people really pay attention to them/have a draw towards Fingal over South Dublin, Dublin city over Dun Laoghaire?
But jerseys alone. Why would or should the Dublin city team keep the Sky Blue jerseys over the other sides?
These sides all playing in Croke Park?
If this is to happen in the league as well? How do you address that?
Its not workable.
Can you name any sports that split teams like youre suggesting and it turned out into a success?

Well splits are difficult to find obvious examples of, but if you look at American sports, they have no problem moving teams here there and everywhere to great success.

As for who plays where and the logistics of the operation, I honestly don't think this a big issue. We can make a workable schedule with home and away fixtures an alternate days in the short term. Long term, I would anticipate a second stadium being built somewhere on the South Side to act as a home ground for the two teams on that side of the city.

ooter

Big crowds attending DCC/fingal/DLR/SDCC games is dreamland stuff, if all 4 of those played in the leinster championship the combined game attendance would be less than the average attendance at a dublin leinster championship game.

FromADistance

Enquiring wrote: »

You're just talking about football here. 22 counties have won provincial championships since the 90's. Directly prior to the Dublin funding taking effect, 5 other counties won Leinster championships. Last year we saw Cavan and Tipperary win provincial titles. Monaghan with a very small population have been competing at the top level. There is nothing wrong with senior football apart from one county receiving special treatment and being artificially placed at the top of the tree.

Yes, other counties need funding. That has to be done but first Dublin must be split.

Absolutely. Anyone who defends this nonsense needs to ask themselves when was the last time you seen Dublin GAA out begging for money recently? Out raffling houses or as Leitrim are doing at the moment, getting supporters out walking 50 miles to raise 50k. 50k. Dublin GAA probably turn over 50k in a week but they still put out 15 players on a football field as every other county. You won't see a Dublin panel player out trying to raise money for their county because they don't have to.

Anyone who says that money has no bearing on how a team performs is utterly deluded. Money buys professional structures, professional structures that Dublin have at the moment... a full time paid CEO, full time commercial manager, a backroom team as large as the entire panel,funded games promotion officers for each club and so on.... money allows clubs to produce a conveyor belt of talent trained and nurtured to perform. Add population in to the mix and it's an unstoppable force. Until every county is funded in the same way as Dublin, nothing will change.

ooter

https://www.dublingaa.ie/news/dubs-going-to-the-dogs-players-holiday-fundraiser

Gael85

ooter wrote: »

https://www.dublingaa.ie/news/dubs-going-to-the-dogs-players-holiday-fundraiser

The friends of Dublin football also have a yearly corporate gig in the Shelbourne Hotel as a fundraiser. Think it was 3k for a table.

FromADistance

ooter wrote: »

https://www.dublingaa.ie/news/dubs-going-to-the-dogs-players-holiday-fundraiser

A link from 2015. A handy corporate gig at 3k a pop. I see.

flasher0030

ooter wrote: »

https://www.dublingaa.ie/news/dubs-going-to-the-dogs-players-holiday-fundraiser

You're sending a link that's nearly 5.5 years old!!! Anything a bit more recent?

It wasn't great financial management to be fair. After spending the millions on the CEO, the commercial manager, the backroom team, the promotion officers, nutritionists, and everyone else who joined the gravy train, they forgot to leave a few bob aside for the central figures - the players!! tut tut.

ooter

I'm just pointing out that Dublin panel players do try to raise money for their county.
People seem to be able to throw out statements like confetti on here without having to back them up.
The same event definitely went ahead in 2017, not sure about 18 or 19.

StupidLikeAFox

ooter wrote: »

I'm just pointing out that Dublin panel players do try to raise money for their county.
People seem to be able to throw out statements like confetti on here without having to back them up.
The same event definitely went ahead in 2017, not sure about 18 or 19.

Have a look at the graphic in this article and you will see how what a pittance Dublin fundraising is compared to any other county. Sure why would they bother

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-reign-supreme-but-where-does-your-county-rank-on-the-2018-gaa-rich-list-36922874.html

ArielAtom

I think a lot of people are forgetting that sponsorship is fundraising.

JeffKenna

ArielAtom wrote: »

I think a lot of people are forgetting that sponsorship is fundraising.

A simple Google search will tell you it's not.

ArielAtom

JeffKenna wrote: »

A simple Google search will tell you it's not.

A simple google search suggest it can be, if you look at all the descriptions.

FromADistance

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Have a look at the graphic in this article and you will see how what a pittance Dublin fundraising is compared to any other county. Sure why would they bother

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-reign-supreme-but-where-does-your-county-rank-on-the-2018-gaa-rich-list-36922874.html

Exactly, why would they bother when full time Dublin GAA employee, Tomas Quinn, knocks on doors for them to get the juicy corporate sponsorship money. No 10eurs in the biscuit tin jobbies. But according to folk on this thread there's no problem. Nothing to see here.

This is the GAA, an Amateur organisation, not the bloody Premiership.

ShyMets

FromADistance wrote: »

Exactly, why would they bother when full time Dublin GAA employee, Tomas Quinn, knocks on doors for them to get the juicy corporate sponsorship money. No 10eurs in the biscuit tin jobbies. But according to folk on this thread there's no problem. Nothing to see here.

This is the GAA, an Amateur organisation, not the bloody Premiership.

So how should Dublin get sponsorship. Just sit around and hope some company approaches them

flasher0030

ArielAtom wrote: »

A simple google search suggest it can be, if you look at all the descriptions.

Is this the same type of definition system that you have that deems that Parnell Park is Dublin's home pitch because Parnell Park is mentioned at the bottom of some website. :rolleyes::rolleyes::o:o
But you ignore the real world where Dublin senior men's team don't play any championship matches in Parnell Park.

15 seconds on google will tell you the difference.
Two major sources of funding are fundraising and sponsorship – it is a common mistake to confuse these two, and an even bigger challenge when they are treated the same. ... For the purposes of this article, fundraising includes grants, donations and events, and sponsorship includes providing marketing value.Nov 12, 2018

Fundraising vs. Sponsorship: Which Is Right For You? - CSAE ...

FromADistance

ShyMets wrote: »

So how should Dublin get sponsorship. Just sit around and hope some company approaches them

Talking about missing the point...

Not every county has the luxury of a full time commercial manager. I take you haven't much of a clue about how counties fundraise and the difficulties faced with a statement like that.

ShyMets

FromADistance wrote: »

Talking about missing the point...

Not every county has the luxury of a full time commercial manager. I take you haven't much of a clue about how counties fundraise and the difficulties faced with a statement like that.

But its not Dublin's fault if other counties haven't such people in place

ooter

It's the same type of definition system that deems that dublin senior hurling has been a success post funding because they had a decent year about 10 years ago when they won a leinster and a league.

Sunny Disposition

Of course Dublin has the most funding, it needs it because it has the most players, when its split it should continue to get the most money, I think that's obvious. That money isn't to be spent on county teams (apart from sponsorship) for the most part, but clubs.
The county absolutely has to be split, the demographic divide is way too big, no other county can compete with them. Interest in intercounty football is way down, there's a fierce sense of inevitability about it.
Kilkenny became dominant but we knew it couldn't last indefinitely because of the size of the county. Limerick may well dominate now, but that too will be temporary. With Dublin it has lasted longer than ever in history and we know it will continue because of the population.

ArielAtom

flasher0030 wrote: »

Is this the same type of definition system that you have that deems that Parnell Park is Dublin's home pitch because Parnell Park is mentioned at the bottom of some website. :rolleyes::rolleyes::o:o
But you ignore the real world where Dublin senior men's team don't play any championship matches in Parnell Park.

15 seconds on google will tell you the difference.
Two major sources of funding are fundraising and sponsorship – it is a common mistake to confuse these two, and an even bigger challenge when they are treated the same. ... For the purposes of this article, fundraising includes grants, donations and events, and sponsorship includes providing marketing value.Nov 12, 2018

Fundraising vs. Sponsorship: Which Is Right For You? - CSAE ...

As I said there are conflicting descriptions on both, but you choose the one that suits you, it your choice, well done, and as you have stated Parnell Park is the home of Dublin GAA, that is not up for discussion.

Rosita

FromADistance wrote: »

Exactly, why would they bother when full time Dublin GAA employee, Tomas Quinn, knocks on doors for them to get the juicy corporate sponsorship money. No 10eurs in the biscuit tin jobbies. But according to folk on this thread there's no problem. Nothing to see here.

This is the GAA, an Amateur organisation, not the bloody Premiership.

The difference between having a full-time employee knocking up commercial opportunities and those in rural pubs on a Saturday night selling lottery tickets so that they can hand money over to a coach is one of scale rather than kind. By all means argue the point on Dublin on the basis of unsustainable competitive advantage but let's not overplay the amateur thing as if there's some innate moral superiority in having a parish of 400 people.

StupidLikeAFox

Rosita wrote: »

The difference between having a full-time employee knocking up commercial opportunities and those in rural pubs on a Saturday night selling lottery tickets so that they can hand money over to a coach is one of scale rather than kind. By all means argue the point on Dublin on the basis of unsustainable competitive advantage but let's not overplay the amateur thing as if there's some innate moral superiority in having a parish of 400 people.

Theres a huge difference between the likes of Fermanagh depending on their supporters club to fundraise for games development personnel, or clubs in Cork coming together to self fund a gdo - compared to Dublin who get a subsidised gdo in every club, several million in sponsorship, a surplus of over 1m a year from commercial activities and zero need to fundraise. It beggars belief how unequitable it is - the gaa is giving the richest team the most resources, it wouldn't be tolerated in any other sport

Rosita

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Theres a huge difference between the likes of Fermanagh depending on their supporters club to fundraise for games development personnel, or clubs in Cork coming together to self fund a gdo - compared to Dublin who get a subsidised gdo in every club, several million in sponsorship, a surplus of over 1m a year from commercial activities and zero need to fundraise. It beggars belief how unequitable it is - the gaa is giving the richest team the most resources, it wouldn't be tolerated in any other sport

It's telling how your answer doesn't touch the sides of the point I made about the comments on Tomás Quinn. If want to argue something different that's fine but you need to address it elsewhere.

FromADistance

Rosita wrote: »

The difference between having a full-time employee knocking up commercial opportunities and those in rural pubs on a Saturday night selling lottery tickets so that they can hand money over to a coach is one of scale rather than kind. By all means argue the point on Dublin on the basis of unsustainable competitive advantage but let's not overplay the amateur thing as if there's some innate moral superiority in having a parish of 400 people.

In my opinion, the GAA is only as strong as the sum of its parts, as strong as its weakest link. Some people won't be happy until it goes fully pro. Dublin are as near a pro setup as one can get. 6 All Ireland's a row and no sign of that changing anytime soon. I'm certainly not moralising about how a parish club is financed vs a county setup but the current suitation where you have counties barely able to finance themselves is hardly sustainable. It's certainly more evident in these difficult times.

A commercial manager is a complete luxury for most counties, and lets be honest, for a lot of counties, the commercial opportunities that Dublin enjoy are just simply not there. So until the playing field is made more equitable when it comes to financial resources and Dublin is split for the greater good of the wider game, nothing will change.

StupidLikeAFox

Rosita wrote: »

It's telling how your answer doesn't touch the sides of the point I made about the comments on Tomás Quinn. If want to argue something different that's fine but you need to address it elsewhere.

The difference is that if another county wanted to employ a full time commercial manager, they would need to divert resources from somewhere else to do that, then hope that the guy is good enough to squeeze enough money from a limited pool of potential sponsors to cover his salary and make a decent profit to go back to development.

If the Dublin model of having professional chairmen, commercial directors and coaching staff is the way forward then the gaa need to step-in and help counties set that up, because Dublin can afford these things off their own back, other counties cant. And if that needs to come from pooled sponsorship, central resources etc then fair enough

Its not anti Dublin to propose this - it would benefit the entire gaa to have a more even playing field off the pitch

superbluedub

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Of course Dublin has the most funding, it needs it because it has the most players, when its split it should continue to get the most money, I think that's obvious. That money isn't to be spent on county teams (apart from sponsorship) for the most part, but clubs.
The county absolutely has to be split, the demographic divide is way too big, no other county can compete with them. Interest in intercounty football is way down, there's a fierce sense of inevitability about it.
Kilkenny became dominant but we knew it couldn't last indefinitely because of the size of the county. Limerick may well dominate now, but that too will be temporary. With Dublin it has lasted longer than ever in history and we know it will continue because of the population.

If Dublin is to be split , there will have to be mergers , other wise
Dublin Gaa will never accept it

StupidLikeAFox

superbluedub wrote: »

If Dublin is to be split , there will have to be mergers , other wise
Dublin Gaa will never accept it

It'll never happen - you can't redraw one county's boundaries on the basis of population but then ignore all the others. It would be a radical change and the gaa don't really do radical changes

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

The coaches go to schools for player recruitment and coaching but their main role is within the club they're hired by. Developing talent within the club, coaching other coaches etc is their main duty. They also develop elite talent, organise camps etc. Their influence is huge.

Every club would love to have someone like this on board. It would be of enormous benefit. You want it ignored but the fact that this was only available for Dublin clubs is the major issue. Why wasn't it made available across the country? Why was the finance ring fenced for Dublin?

Most clubs can't afford these coaches. Even with the enormous wealth in Dublin, they are still claiming the money to pay for half the coaches wages. The huge impact the professional coaches have made to standards in Dublin is obvious and has been admitted to by high level employees of Dublin GAA.

It has been ongoing since 2002, every other county have had to operate with limited resources while Dublin had access to their own special fund. It should never have happened to begin with and the realisation that it has to be stopped is dawning on many.

You keep coming out with this trip, jesus this thread is like Groundhog Day. The GAA don’t drop a coach in nearly every club in dublins. A few pages back you told us they had provided 90 coaches. Then it was 72. On top of that you don’t even have a solid figure on the number of clubs in dublin. The numbers of games development personell for dublin have been provided in links already. At a generous push it’s mid 60’s (you might tell us which job titles you want to include) the clubs paid for half of that. That works out at around 30 people provided for dublin by the GAA to develop the game with kids.

What’s ghat, it was a special dublin only project? Well yes it was . Why was that I wonder. Two obvious reasons: the first was GAA self interest. A realisation that they’d neglected one of their cash cows and it was dying. The rest of the GAA basically didn’t want to lose the money dublin could ultimately provide them with. The second if you read the Leinster council proceedings was that this was a new approach because the GAA were sick of development funds finding their way into other county spends. This was a trial of a project that had full oversight and accountability to ensure the money was spent on development and not on the inter county team. Read that last sentence again because it’s fundamental to what the project was. Not dublin inter county, building the game across dublin.

When you tell us everyone else only got 6 fully funded maybe you could acknowledge that dublin getting 5x the coaches paid for might reflect that they have more than 5x the people to spread the game to than many of those. That’s before you allocate the rest of the GD spend that clearly is not distributed in the same ratios.

What’s that you say? But cork only got 6 with so many people? You give me cork and I’ll raise you Leitrim. Maybe you should talk to the GAA about how they define the coaching needs. Certainly on a per capita Leinster for example with 118 resources dedicated to games dev is doing far better than dublin at the moment.

What’s that you say, but the clubs spent their own money to hire coaches? Fair ****s to them, it’s their money. Absolutely no reason a club or group of clubs elsewhere couldn’t be doing the same. Apart from they couldn’t be arsed. And yes that should mean they get some say on how the coaches time is used. I’ve seen the efforts my own club has put into raising funds to develop the facilities and I’ve seen the challenges it’s faced so please don’t try this ****e that the dublin clubs have it easy somehow

Oh but you say dublin have all this sponsor revenue. Again fair ****s to them. When counties can say with a straight face that they’ve looked to maximise what they can, by incrementally growing their brand,like dublin and Kerry are, like cork are starting to I’ll be open to the idea of some redistribution of a portion. While they still want to sit on their hand and beggar their neighbors not so much. Maybe if they’d started that a decade ago instead of laughing at the dubs strategic plan they’d be a bit closer now.