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The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*
Comments
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SheepsClothing wrote: »I didn't know London and New York were counties. Good to learn something new.
Well if population is such an advantage those two should be cleaning up.....0 -
Yes, all counties should demand fair funding as one of the key elements of this movement. Splitting Dublin is central to it as well though. Without that, we would be allowing one county compete on a professional basis. It would be contrary to the ideals of fair play.
You still refuse to define fair apart from some wishy washy “a committee would look at it” . Is it roughly per capita for example? If it is then when all gd funding is split dublins will get an increase for example0 -
SheepsClothing wrote: »It shouldn't be that complicated. Splits are by their nature, less alienating than amalgamations. Somebody who was born and raised in the Fingal County Council area has been affiliated and thought of themselves as part of that area for much of/all of their life.
Somebody born and raised in Monaghan, has never affiliated themselves with being from Cavan, in fact they consider Cavan their rival. If suddenly, the Mavan senior football team is formed, that Monaghan supporter is going to have much harder time supporting the Mavan team, than the former Dublin supporter will have supporting Fingal.
There's also the fact that splitting Dublin is the path of least resistance to bringing about some semblance of competition. Splitting Dublin and disfranchising one counties support(I personally think it would drive support) for the benefit of the other 31, is easier than disenfranchising the other 31 counties in order to suit the one runaway train county.
You’re clearly not a dub so. People in fingal have basically no affiliation to fingal, it’s basically an artificial construct to most people. They consider themselves Dubliners primarily. Basically you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Since that doesn’t matter to you then amalgamation should be just as palatable. Don’t worry if some counties are traditional rivals, that could be resolved by splitting the county, say split Kerry in two and merge half with part of cork for example and half with another with part of Limerick. The two Kerry’s would quickly develop a strong rivalry (Actually to be fairly to Leitrim we could of course have franchises equal to the population size of that county but that probably gets cumbersome)
When you say some semblance of competition I assume what you mean is a return to the status quo? It certainly won’t help the leitrims or make Munster more competitive given it hasn’t been for over a century. Strange that that version of uncompetitive is ok for you.0 -
FromADistance wrote: »A link from 2015. A handy corporate gig at 3k a pop. I see.
Well, if Kerry and Mayo can have their corporate gigs in the states at a grand a plate I don’t see why dublin shouldn’t have a dinner too
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-20335403.html%3ftype=amp
https://www.mayonews.ie/sports/33682-new-york-fundraiser-a-game-changer0 -
I think a lot of people are forgetting that sponsorship is fundraising.
I think a lot of people would like to forget that, or at least be selective with which numbers they use from each. Funny how were expected to picture fundraising as wee David Clifford shaking a bucket for change outside mass instead of corporate shindigs0 -
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Well, if Kerry and Mayo can have their corporate gigs in the states at a grand a plate I don’t see why dublin shouldn’t have a dinner too
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-20335403.html%3ftype=amp
https://www.mayonews.ie/sports/33682-new-york-fundraiser-a-game-changer
You should have a read over the article below.
Dublin reign supreme - but where does your county rank on the 2018 GAA rich list?
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-reign-supreme-but-where-does-your-county-rank-on-the-2018-gaa-rich-list-36922874.html0 -
StupidLikeAFox wrote: »The difference is that if another county wanted to employ a full time commercial manager, they would need to divert resources from somewhere else to do that, then hope that the guy is good enough to squeeze enough money from a limited pool of potential sponsors to cover his salary and make a decent profit to go back to development.
If the Dublin model of having professional chairmen, commercial directors and coaching staff is the way forward then the gaa need to step-in and help counties set that up, because Dublin can afford these things off their own back, other counties cant. And if that needs to come from pooled sponsorship, central resources etc then fair enough
Its not anti Dublin to propose this - it would benefit the entire gaa to have a more even playing field off the pitch
Dublin took a risk to make it happen as part of a strategic plan that the rest of the country ridiculed them for. The money dublin can generate didn’t happen overnight, their sponsorship model has been grown over a long time. If their commercial manager wasn’t paying his way he’d be shown the door like in any well run organization.
That said, given so many counties wasted the last decade instead of setting good structures up, the GAA should probably fund a program to accelerate this stuff, using the dublin template.0 -
FromADistance wrote: »You should have a read over the article below and come back to me like a good lad.
Dublin reign supreme - but where does your county rank on the 2018 GAA rich list?
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-reign-supreme-but-where-does-your-county-rank-on-the-2018-gaa-rich-list-36922874.html
You should have a read back over the thread and see we’ve done this to death many times0 -
StupidLikeAFox wrote: »Theres a huge difference between the likes of Fermanagh depending on their supporters club to fundraise for games development personnel, or clubs in Cork coming together to self fund a gdo - compared to Dublin who get a subsidised gdo in every club, several million in sponsorship, a surplus of over 1m a year from commercial activities and zero need to fundraise. It beggars belief how unequitable it is - the gaa is giving the richest team the most resources, it wouldn't be tolerated in any other sport
Again the lies about a gdo in every club0 -
Again the lies about a gdo in every club
Seems like something or someone has hit a raw nerve with Titium.
Seems like the truth is starting to hit home.
At the end of the day, 6 in a row is some achievement. And 7 will be, and 8 will be and so on. It may be overshadowed by the commercial side of things, which the likes of Kilkenny and Kerry didn't have to endure. But the world is more capitalist now than it was, and money makes the world go round.
Hopefully, in some way, the GAA can provide some semblance of financial benefit to the other counties, to allow them to progress, in the same way it did for Dublin.0 -
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Is there an argument to be made for giving dublin more money to allow them to progress at senior hurling level?
0 all irelands in a row post funding is an awful return.0 -
flasher0030 wrote: »Seems like something or someone has hit a raw nerve with Titium.
Seems like the truth is starting to hit home.
At the end of the day, 6 in a row is some achievement. And 7 will be, and 8 will be and so on. It may be overshadowed by the commercial side of things, which the likes of Kilkenny and Kerry didn't have to endure. But the world is more capitalist now than it was, and money makes the world go round.
Hopefully, in some way, the GAA can provide some semblance of financial benefit to the other counties, to allow them to progress, in the same way it did for Dublin.
Just before we continue, are you also arguing that every club in dublin got a subsidised gdo? Bear in mind, that’s been pretty comprehensively debunked at this stage, even one of the posters who started with it has been scrabbling to adjust their numbers
No problem with the GAA funding other counties btw, I’ve been agreeing with that for a lot of this thread. The GAA has been financially lopsided for a lot longer than the dublin plan existed ( this thread has covered Kerry’s financials over the years quite well) so giving others a lift would be applauded. However it also needs counties to want to evolve and move forward in areas like sponsorship. It’s all well and good whinging about the dubs but the reality is the commercial strides dublin made are incredible, and not on the back of being dominant, on the back of realising they had massive untapped value. And before someone argues that the funding caused that value, I suppose in a way it did, but not in the way that’s been argued. What it did do is expose a huge chunk of dublins potential market to the GAA through getting kids and their parents involved in the games, which is gold to a sponsor.0 -
You keep coming out with this trip, jesus this thread is like Groundhog Day. The GAA don’t drop a coach in nearly every club in dublins. A few pages back you told us they had provided 90 coaches. Then it was 72. On top of that you don’t even have a solid figure on the number of clubs in dublin. The numbers of games development personell for dublin have been provided in links already. At a generous push it’s mid 60’s (you might tell us which job titles you want to include) the clubs paid for half of that. That works out at around 30 people provided for dublin by the GAA to develop the game with kids.
What’s ghat, it was a special dublin only project? Well yes it was . Why was that I wonder. Two obvious reasons: the first was GAA self interest. A realisation that they’d neglected one of their cash cows and it was dying. The rest of the GAA basically didn’t want to lose the money dublin could ultimately provide them with. The second if you read the Leinster council proceedings was that this was a new approach because the GAA were sick of development funds finding their way into other county spends. This was a trial of a project that had full oversight and accountability to ensure the money was spent on development and not on the inter county team. Read that last sentence again because it’s fundamental to what the project was. Not dublin inter county, building the game across dublin.
When you tell us everyone else only got 6 fully funded maybe you could acknowledge that dublin getting 5x the coaches paid for might reflect that they have more than 5x the people to spread the game to than many of those. That’s before you allocate the rest of the GD spend that clearly is not distributed in the same ratios.
What’s that you say? But cork only got 6 with so many people? You give me cork and I’ll raise you Leitrim. Maybe you should talk to the GAA about how they define the coaching needs. Certainly on a per capita Leinster for example with 118 resources dedicated to games dev is doing far better than dublin at the moment.
What’s that you say, but the clubs spent their own money to hire coaches? Fair ****s to them, it’s their money. Absolutely no reason a club or group of clubs elsewhere couldn’t be doing the same. Apart from they couldn’t be arsed. And yes that should mean they get some say on how the coaches time is used. I’ve seen the efforts my own club has put into raising funds to develop the facilities and I’ve seen the challenges it’s faced so please don’t try this ****e that the dublin clubs have it easy somehow
Oh but you say dublin have all this sponsor revenue. Again fair ****s to them. When counties can say with a straight face that they’ve looked to maximise what they can, by incrementally growing their brand,like dublin and Kerry are, like cork are starting to I’ll be open to the idea of some redistribution of a portion. While they still want to sit on their hand and beggar their neighbors not so much. Maybe if they’d started that a decade ago instead of laughing at the dubs strategic plan they’d be a bit closer now.
You're all over the place here.Then you're adding coaches onto every other county and taking away coaches from Dublin.
I provided you with the link to the clubs on Dublin GAA's website. If you go through them, all the teams in the top divisions in hurling and football have a professional coach. Just backing up again that this is more about elite development than participation. And why do the smaller clubs not have a coach?
In the Dublin only scheme, the clubs pay for half the wages of the coach. Without the millions pumped in, they would not have been able to afford it. This was only available in Dublin. Trying to reduce the number of coaches in Dublin is more of your fantasy land stuff.
No one has denied that the reason Dublin got the special treatment and the millions of euros more than everyone else was because the GAA wanted to increase revenue. That's pretty obvious. As you've had to admit, there were many counties in a worse position than Dublin but they were ignored. The revenue from 4 new counties will not fall, it will increase, especially with more competitive football championships.
You've already noted that some of the smaller clubs didn't get access to a coach, that shows it was only about building the game at an elite level. The plan was drawn up for Dublin in 2002, what's that nonsense you are spouting about the trial project?
Everyone had 6 or fewer coaches, again, you've been forced to acknowledge this. Most counties had 3 or 4. Dublin had many multiples more. Your 5 or 6 is more fantasy. And again, Cork with more clubs and registered players got fractions of what Dublin got. What are you on about raise me Leitrim? Every county got in and around the same. Leitrim or Antrim or Galway or Monaghan. Only Dublin were way out of line. Again, where's this 118 number coming from? You still trying to add in administrative staff and third level coaches, even those for Dublin universities? :pac:
You know why clubs elsewhere couldn't do this as it was a Dublin only scheme. It was not available anywhere else. And by the way, where do the Dublin clubs get their money? The wealth is in Dublin, huge employment is in Dublin. Many people from all corners of Ireland live in Dublin and many send their kids to the club in their locality. That's where the funding comes from. As has been noted, these clubs having huge resources will assist the 4 counties in the split.
Dublin have raised sponsorship off the back of the special scheme that was drawn up and funded for them. That's the key. Dublin now have the money to spend over 2 million on salaries per year, 2 million on expenses, 1.5 million on team preparations and now 3.8 million on games development.
Remember, the games development funding went on increasing standards in Dublin GAA, to do this they focused mainly on those between 8 and 18. These numbered 30,000 or under in Dublin for registered players. So the millions of euros and the huge number of coaches went on developing this number. It obviously has been extremely successful but it was done unfairly. 2 decades of lopsided funding has left us with a professional organisation remaining. Time to end it.0 -
You're all over the place here. You are struggling to put a coherent sentence together. Then you're adding coaches onto every other county and taking away coaches from Dublin.
I provided you with the link to the clubs on Dublin GAA's website. If you go through them, all the teams in the top divisions in hurling and football have a professional coach. Just backing up again that this is more about elite development than participation. And why do the smaller clubs not have a coach?
In the Dublin only scheme, the clubs pay for half the wages of the coach. Without the millions pumped in, they would not have been able to afford it. This was only available in Dublin. Trying to reduce the number of coaches in Dublin is more of your fantasy land stuff.
No one has denied that the reason Dublin got the special treatment and the millions of euros more than everyone else was because the GAA wanted to increase revenue. That's pretty obvious. As you've had to admit, there were many counties in a worse position than Dublin but they were ignored. The revenue from 4 new counties will not fall, it will increase, especially with more competitive football championships.
You've already noted that some of the smaller clubs didn't get access to a coach, that shows it was only about building the game at an elite level. The plan was drawn up for Dublin in 2002, what's that nonsense you are spouting about the trial project?
Everyone had 6 or fewer coaches, again, you've been forced to acknowledge this. Most counties had 3 or 4. Dublin had many multiples more. Your 5 or 6 is more fantasy. And again, Cork with more clubs and registered players got fractions of what Dublin got. What are you on about raise me Leitrim? Every county got in and around the same. Leitrim or Antrim or Galway or Monaghan. Only Dublin were way out of line. Again, where's this 118 number coming from? You still trying to add in administrative staff and third level coaches, even those for Dublin universities? :pac:
You know why clubs elsewhere couldn't do this as it was a Dublin only scheme. It was not available anywhere else. And by the way, where do the Dublin clubs get their money? The wealth is in Dublin, huge employment is in Dublin. Many people from all corners of Ireland live in Dublin and many send their kids to the club in their locality. That's where the funding comes from. As has been noted, these clubs having huge resources will assist the 4 counties in the split.
Dublin have raised sponsorship off the back of the special scheme that was drawn up and funded for them. That's the key. Dublin now have the money to spend over 2 million on salaries per year, 2 million on expenses, 1.5 million on team preparations and now 3.8 million on games development.
Remember, the games development funding went on increasing standards in Dublin GAA, to do this they focused mainly on those between 8 and 18. These numbered 30,000 or under in Dublin for registered players. So the millions of euros and the huge number of coaches went on developing this number. It obviously has been extremely successful but it was done unfairly. 2 decades of lopsided funding has left us with a professional organisation remaining. Time to end it.
Pure fantasy stuff from you again. You can’t even be bothered at this stage to address the facts that destroy your argument and selective use of data. Just the same tired old crying about big bad dublin and dishonest information. You’ve even taken to doubling down your position and attributing things to me that never actually occurred. Tragic in its own way0 -
Pure fantasy stuff from you again. You can’t even be bothered at this stage to address the facts that destroy your argument and selective use of data. Just the same tired old crying about big bad dublin and dishonest information. You’ve even taken to doubling down your position and attributing things to me that never actually occurred. Tragic in its own way
Everything I post is backed up with evidence. You came in with information that most people know and were trying to claim it was some top secret, hidden information. When it was pointed out that it just covers 6 or less coaches for every other county, you then tried to fiddle the numbers. You were caught out badly trying to add administrative personnel and third level college coaches onto other counties. And even after that. The numbers were still skewed in favour of Dublin.
Look, you'll never accept it but to draw up a plan specifically for one county and to pump millions into that county to put the plan into action was an incredibly unfair and unjust decision. Especially when it was the governing body of the sport that backed it. It was wrong and as has been pointed out, it snowballed to where Dublin GAA have resources far beyond everyone else. One thing led to another, improved standards to increased sponsorship and so on. The final step on that is the splitting of Dublin. It has been on the table for decades. After the funding scandal, it has to happen now.0 -
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/the-dubs-and-money-q-a-pat-teehan-v-john-connellan-1.4470939?mode=amp
Mr Connellan came across quite poor here, I’ll prepared, corrected on the majority of his points and backed down on them. He’s doing the naysayers no good in not having his ducks in a row before debating. Pat Teehan schooled him.0 -
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/the-dubs-and-money-q-a-pat-teehan-v-john-connellan-1.4470939?mode=amp
Mr Connellan came across quite poor here, I’ll prepared, corrected on the majority of his points and backed down on them. He’s doing the naysayers no good in not having his ducks in a row before debating. Pat Teehan schooled him.
reading the article is recommended here.
In the article, Pat Teehan has had to admit what has been said throughout this thread. Dublin were disproportionately funded for 2 decades, recently, more funding has gone into the East Leinster project, this project was another step on the 2002 Strategic Review Committee's plan. What this means is that only Louth, Meath, Kildare and Wicklow are getting special treatment along with Dublin. This is being passed off as problem solved.
Firstly it ignores the 2 decades of funding disparity but it also ignores the rest of the country who still have to get by with minimal amounts of coaches. Pat Teehan also had to admit how far Dublin are ahead in terms of structures put in place with their Dublin only fund. These highly financed structures are the reason we see Dublin men's and women's senior football teams dominating today and why we have seen enormous improvements across the board with Dublin GAA.0 -
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/the-dubs-and-money-q-a-pat-teehan-v-john-connellan-1.4470939?mode=amp
Mr Connellan came across quite poor here, I’ll prepared, corrected on the majority of his points and backed down on them. He’s doing the naysayers no good in not having his ducks in a row before debating. Pat Teehan schooled him.
Malachy Clerkin: Do you accept that characterisation, Pat? That the funding has been disproportionate and that it has fed into decimation of the competition?
Pat Teehan: Of course, yes. I have no argument with that. Based on the figures that John has produced and published up to 2017, there’s no argument. The funding was disproportionate.0 -
Malachy Clerkin: Do you accept that characterisation, Pat? That the funding has been disproportionate and that it has fed into decimation of the competition?
Pat Teehan: Of course, yes. I have no argument with that. Based on the figures that John has produced and published up to 2017, there’s no argument. The funding was disproportionate.
The majority of poster always accepted that. I have always stated that but argued that some posters got their figures way off. The point I was making her was that Connellan went into a live streamed debate extremely ill prepared and he got schooled. I would not be quoting him as his arguments were dismantled and he rowed back and agreed.0 -
The majority of poster always accepted that. I have always stated that but argued that some posters got their figures way off. The point I was making her was that Connellan went into a live streamed debate extremely ill prepared and he got schooled. I would not be quoting him as his arguments were dismantled and he rowed back and agreed.
Connellan wasn't quoted in the previous posters comments. It was Pat Teehan who conceded that the funding was disproportionate.
You now say that most of the posters accept that funding has a relevance to Dublins success over the past decade. From what I have experienced, most of the posters on Boards supporting Dublin would lead you to believe that the success is due to a once in a lifetime crop of players who have excelled, and that funding has nothing to do with it.0 -
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flasher0030 wrote: »Connellan wasn't quoted in the previous posters comments. It was Pat Teehan who conceded that the funding was disproportionate.
You now say that most of the posters accept that funding has a relevance to Dublins success over the past decade. From what I have experienced, most of the posters on Boards supporting Dublin would lead you to believe that the success is due to a once in a lifetime crop of players who have excelled, and that funding has nothing to do with it.
I never once said that money was the reason for Dublins success. I have pointed out that funding is something to be discussed. The funding as you know was aimed at 5-12 yr olds and was for development of our games. There are some who would have you believe it was for the Snr football teams alone. The 1.2m as was confirmed by Pat Teehan is a far cry from the quite ridiculous claims of 3.8m, as has been reported by one poster. Pat Teehan has indicated that the Leinster council have been addressing funding in other counties for quite some time, he also indicated that others will require more funding, so going in the right direction.0 -
I never once said that money was the reason for Dublins success. I have pointed out that funding is something to be discussed. The funding as you know was aimed at 5-12 yr olds and was for development of our games. There are some who would have you believe it was for the Snr football teams alone. The 1.2m as was confirmed by Pat Teehan is a far cry from the quite ridiculous claims of 3.8m, as has been reported by one poster. Pat Teehan has indicated that the Leinster council have been addressing funding in other counties for quite some time, he also indicated that others will require more funding, so going in the right direction.
So Pat Teehan accepts that funding has been disproportionate and that it has fed into decimation of the competition. You linked the article yourself highlighting how he school John Connellan. Are you now disagreeing with him?0 -
So Pat Teehan accepts that funding has been disproportionate and that it has fed into decimation of the competition. You linked the article yourself highlighting how he school John Connellan. Are you now disagreeing with him?
I’m saying that Pat Teehan spoke using facts. Connellan in my opinion is profile building, making a very poor attempt at it though, you would think a man with his training would be prepared for a debate.0 -
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https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/the-dubs-and-money-q-a-pat-teehan-v-john-connellan-1.4470939?mode=amp
Mr Connellan came across quite poor here, I’ll prepared, corrected on the majority of his points and backed down on them. He’s doing the naysayers no good in not having his ducks in a row before debating. Pat Teehan schooled him.
Thats some interview Ariel, I really like Teehans style there, he basically acknowledges that dublin got funding but rather than get bogged down in the minutiae of it he just conceded a few points and then proceeded to basically pick apart the strands of Connellans argument
Connellans very poor though. For a trained barrister to not have his homework done is a bit embarrassing tbh. He’s just reduced to rethoric about how the dublin clubs have loads of money. Pretty sad when he complained that clubs who charge more to their members have more money as a result. I thought it was a bit cheap tbh, basically suggesting somehow that members in dublin have all this extra money to shell out
Teehans point about facilities in dublin was enlightening. It puts a much clearer view on some of the dublin county board purchases. By the end Connellan was reduced to. picking individual counties to try the “what about county X” approach. He even conceded that the project for dublin was necessary by the end. Impressive from Teehan in a very understated way0 -
So you don't agree with Pat Teehan then I take it?
I agree that Connellan came across as rank amateur and I for one would not want him representing me in any form. Pat Teehan acknowledged that there was funding to Dublin, something I have done here. He also said it needed to continue. So yes I agree with those statements.0 -
So you don't agree with Pat Teehan then I take it?
I take it you do agree with him so? For example that the revenue generated in dublin is necessary to address the issues with facilities? That the level of revenue they generate inevitably looks greater while they’re successful? That the structures dublin have developed give their players more games exposure that’s key to their development, and which is now being copied elsewhere with support from the Leinster council? That the rest of Leinster is receiving almost twice the funding per head of population that dublin is at present? That you can’t simply “means test” clubs? That funding is still needed for dublin?0 -
Finally we're getting acceptance that the funding disparity caused the decimation of competitions such as the men's and women's football championships. The current Leinster council chairman is the most high ranking official to date who has admitted to this as fact.
Moving from denial to acceptance is a very important step. Teehan also accepted that the structures in Dublin are unrecognisable to what was in place in the 90's. Dublin have had close to two decades to perfect their system with incredible financial backing from taxpayers and the GAA. Every other county was underfunded in this time and most remain so apart from a few in the East Leinster project.
That's the next reality that will have to be faced by all within the GAA. This two decade head start is irreversible. While all other counties were scraping by, Dublin were having their professional development system funded for them. Freeing up cash to pay large salaries to many within Dublin GAA including marketing managers. These appointments and increased success have left us in a spot where Dublin now spend close to 4 million on games development per year according to John Costello.
We're moving in the right direction with the current Leinster council chairman admitting to the damage the over funding has done and a previous Leinster council chairman proposing how we can slowly introduce the split.0 -
I take it you do agree with him so? For example that the revenue generated in dublin is necessary to address the issues with facilities? That the level of revenue they generate inevitably looks greater while they’re successful? That the structures dublin have developed give their players more games exposure that’s key to their development, and which is now being copied elsewhere with support from the Leinster council? That the rest of Leinster is receiving almost twice the funding per head of population that dublin is at present? That you can’t simply “means test” clubs? That funding is still needed for dublin?
Ok. Great. Finally we have agreement on this thread. We all agree with Pat. That, notwithstanding the good intentions of the above actions for the mens senior team, that it wasn't very well thought out by Bertie/GAA - and that the funding has now resulted in the GAA juggernaut, AKA the Dublin intercounty senior mens team. And it has led to the "decimation" of the GAA competition.
Therefore surely there cannot be any more comments advising that funding has not been a fundamental reason for Dublin success. Ya?0 -
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Finally we're getting acceptance that the funding disparity caused the decimation of competitions such as the men's and women's football championships. The current Leinster council chairman is the most high ranking official to date who has admitted to this as fact.
Moving from denial to acceptance is a very important step. Teehan also accepted that the structures in Dublin are unrecognisable to what was in place in the 90's. Dublin have had close to two decades to perfect their system with incredible financial backing from taxpayers and the GAA. Every other county was underfunded in this time and most remain so apart from a few in the East Leinster project.
That's the next reality that will have to be faced by all within the GAA. This two decade head start is irreversible. While all other counties were scraping by, Dublin were having their professional development system funded for them. Freeing up cash to pay large salaries to many within Dublin GAA including marketing managers. These appointments and increased success have left us in a spot where Dublin now spend close to 4 million on games development per year according to John Costello.
We're moving in the right direction with the current Leinster council chairman admitting to the damage the over funding has done and a previous Leinster council chairman proposing how we can slowly introduce the split.
You’ll have to give me a link to the report you read all this in. Pat Teehan must have given a second and very different interview to the one Ariel linked.
You’re right that the structures are unrecognisable though - oddly that was the whole point, and something that every county board was fully in the loop on from the beginning. I applaud Teehan and the rest of the GAA that they’ve scaled back dublin since 2017 and are pumping increasingly massive funding into the rest of Leinster since then to propagate the lessons learned.
Remarkably we haven’t seen the fruits as quickly as you claim dublin did, (though that was effectively due to time travel it seems) but I’m sure once county boards knuckle down success will flow. And of course the carrot for Leinster is that it will finally be a competitive province on a national level due to the massive benefit posters attribute to a head start. John Connellan should rejoice0 -
You’ll have to give me a link to the report you read all this in. Pat Teehan must have given a second and very different interview to the one Ariel linked.
You’re right that the structures are unrecognisable though - oddly that was the whole point, and something that every county board was fully in the loop on from the beginning. I applaud Teehan and the rest of the GAA that they’ve scaled back dublin since 2017 and are pumping increasingly massive funding into the rest of Leinster since then to propagate the lessons learned.
Remarkably we haven’t seen the fruits as quickly as you claim dublin did, (though that was effectively due to time travel it seems) but I’m sure once county boards knuckle down success will flow. And of course the carrot for Leinster is that it will finally be a competitive province on a national level due to the massive benefit posters attribute to a head start. John Connellan should rejoice
Are you trying to deny that Teehan accepted that the disproportionate funding Dublin received led to the decimation of the competition?0 -
Are you trying to deny that Teehan accepted that the disproportionate funding Dublin received led to the decimation of the competition?
You’ll have to link me to the quote where he says that. This was what I got from him
Which is a sentiment I agree with
No, well I never said that Dublin winning everything is great for the association. What I said was that a vibrant GAA in Dublin is great for the association. Just as a vibrant GAA in Offaly is great for the association, just as a vibrant GAA in Westmeath is great for the association. Even when we’re not winning, we’re still vibrant. And just because you’re vibrant, doesn’t mean you’re winning.
My whole thing is that every child in every school should be given the opportunity to be shown our games and that’s the vibrancy I was talking about. Not about Dublin winning All-Irelands. It’s not good for one team to be dominating. That is not good for anyone, probably not even good for Dublin because the whole thing could blow up long term.
To be clear, are you saying you agree with all Teehans points? Even the the ones that make nonsense of stuff you’ve posted previously?0 -
You’ll have to link me to the quote where he says that. This was what I got from him
Malachy Clerkin: Do you accept that characterisation, Pat? That the funding has been disproportionate and that it has fed into decimation of the competition?
Pat Teehan: Of course, yes. I have no argument with that.0 -
Malachy Clerkin: Do you accept that characterisation, Pat? That the funding has been disproportionate and that it has fed into decimation of the competition?
Pat Teehan: Of course, yes. I have no argument with that.
Very sneaky. What he’s actually conceded is that Connellanns figures (which he doesn’t debate) indicate disproportionate funding if you read the full quote- I. Fact he explicitly says that!. He also explains why it was necessary, including the neglect of sport in dublin
Pat Teehan: Of course, yes. I have no argument with that. Based on the figures that John has produced and published up to 2017, there’s no argument. The funding was disproportionate. But it came about for two reasons. First of all, the Sports Council decided that sports participation in Dublin in all sports wasn’t what it should be. And they decided to put money directly into sporting organisations in Dublin, including Dublin GAA. That money is ring-fenced and audited, it can only go to Dublin GAA.
Again, do you agree with all his points, including those that make a no sense of stuff you’ve posted here?0 -
Very sneaky. What he’s actually conceded is that Connellanns figures (which he doesn’t debate) indicate disproportionate funding if you read the full quote- I. Fact he explicitly says that!. He also explains why it was necessary, including the neglect of sport in dublin
Again, do you agree with all his points, including those that make a no sense of stuff you’ve posted here?
He says there is no argument against what was put forward. The disproportionate funding led to the decimation of the men's Leinster championship. It's what we already knew to be true but having the Leinster council chairman face up to the fact has to be welcomed.0 -
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He says there is no argument against what was put forward. The disproportionate funding led to the decimation of the men's Leinster championship. It's what we already knew to be true but having the Leinster council chairman face up to the fact has to be welcomed.
He says exactly what he means, he’s very explicit. Only someone trying to sandbag a leaking argument would look to selectively quote him to serve their argument
One last time - do you accept his points that make nonsense of stuff you’ve posted here?
(Last time because any more asking into a vacuum would likely derail this thread, given its your standard tactic I’ll take silence as an acknowledgement in that case)0 -
He says exactly what he means, he’s very explicit. O lily someone trying to sandbag a leaking argument would look to selectively quote him to serve their argument
One last time - do you accept his points that make nonsense of stuff you’ve posted here?
(Last time because any more asking into a vacuum would likely derail this thread, given its your standard tactic I’ll take silence as an acknowledgement in that case)
That was the big draw from the interview. The Leinster council chairman who actively tries to defend the over funding of Dublin admitted that it has led to the decimation of the Leinster football championship at a minimum.
Nothing in the rest of the article goes against anything I've said. In fact, it backs up what I've been saying. I think you need to read the article more closely.0 -
Very sneaky. What he’s actually conceded is that Connellanns figures (which he doesn’t debate) indicate disproportionate funding if you read the full quote- I. Fact he explicitly says that!. He also explains why it was necessary, including the neglect of sport in dublin
Again, do you agree with all his points, including those that make a no sense of stuff you’ve posted here?
This is actually ridiculous at this stage. It's there in black and white what he said. If you want to make something up and claim he didn't say what he said by all means do.0 -
He says exactly what he means, he’s very explicit. Only someone trying to sandbag a leaking argument would look to selectively quote him to serve their argument
One last time - do you accept his points that make nonsense of stuff you’ve posted here?
(Last time because any more asking into a vacuum would likely derail this thread, given its your standard tactic I’ll take silence as an acknowledgement in that case)
You really need to go back and read the article a little more closely.0 -
flasher0030 wrote: »You really need to go back and read the article a little more closely. Or if you cannot understand it, have some interpret it for you.
No offence mate but if you think that article advances the anti dublin argument you’re delusional. Teehan hands Connellan his arse- by the end he’s conceded the dublin project was completely necessary and is reduced to whinging about Galway to the Leinster council chairman0 -
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No offence mate but if you think that article advances the anti dublin argument you’re delusional. Teehan hands Connellan his arse- by the end he’s conceded the dublin project was completely necessary and is reduced to whinging about Galway to the Leinster council chairman
Well said. To the point and no waffle, unlike some of the replies you receive, some posters think quantity trumps quality😂0 -
That was the big draw from the interview. The Leinster council chairman who actively tries to defend the over funding of Dublin admitted that it has led to the decimation of the Leinster football championship at a minimum.
Nothing in the rest of the article goes against anything I've said. In fact, it backs up what I've been saying. I think you need to read the article more closely.
I guess I’ve mixed you up with the poster who said this.Just so we're clear here. Posters such as the above have tried to claim that the funding has stopped since 2017 and it only began in 2007. Proof will be provided to show that this is false. Also, many are not aware of the figures or willfully ignore them. The more people know about just how much Dublin were given above every other county, the better. Let's end the farce.
Pat Teehan has confirmed in the article that the dublin funding has actually been scaled back since 2017 to a sustaining level, while funding for the rest of Leinster has tripled. Unless you’re arguing that dublin should get zero from the GAA Pat just sank you there.
Now I’m sure you’ll pull your usual cute hoor stuff where you assure us that you really meant what pat said but to be honest no one without an axe to grind is buying it anymore0 -
I guess I’ve mixed you up with the poster who said this.
Pat Teehan has confirmed in the article that the dublin funding has actually been scaled back since 2017 to a sustaining level, while funding for the rest of Leinster has tripled. Unless you’re arguing that dublin should get zero from the GAA Pat just sank you there.
Now I’m sure you’ll pull your usual cute hoor stuff where you assure us that you really meant what pat said but to be honest no one without an axe to grind is buying it anymore
Nothing new came from that article except the first high profile admittance that the funding disparity has made a mess of the football championship. It once again shows that the argument that the money was just for primary school kids or had no effect on the improvement in Dublin GAA across the board is absolute nonsense. Even the Leinster council chairman, someone who wants to defend the funding disparity, has confirmed the obvious.
So the Dublin coaching program didn't end in 2017. Where are you getting the impression it did? Instead of unbalanced funding in favour of Dublin, it's now unbalanced funding in favour of Dublin, Meath, Louth, Wicklow and Kildare. This is after almost 2 decades of Dublin only schemes.0 -
Then there was this gemI've already said that the clubs pay for half the wages of the coach in the Dublin only scheme. The rest is paid by taxpayers, the GAA and the Leinster council. This adds up to more than 30 million since 2002.
If Dublin have around 90 clubs and around 75 coaches, that is nearly one per club. Definitely nearly one per club for all the clubs in the top divisions.
Dublin are way overfunded and have access to far more coaches to anyone else. From 2015, Dublin only had 12% of the total of registered players aged 8-18.
To be fair you already rolled back from claiming 90 coaches so you were in fast retreat at this point.Leinster isn't a county. There is no coaching plan in operation like the Dublin only scheme where there's a paid coach or two for nearly every club. While Dublin had about 90 paid coaches, every other county had below 6 with some just with 1!
Pat makes it nice and clear:
the model we are copying now for the rest of Leinster, whereby the clubs contribute and the Games Promotion Officer goes into the club and it’s a part-funded by both. The number of coaches in Dublin in 2017 was 64 and it’s still 64. In the rest of Leinster in 2017 it was 72 and it’s now 118.
Indeed the model is great value for the GAA since they only actually pay half the cost, the clubs have to have skin the game so the GAA can get twice the benefit of what they put in through the commitment of their partners. So happy are the GAA that they’re actively using it elsewhere now
what I was trying to get across at the Leinster convention was that we need the coaching that is happening in Dublin to continue. And we need to expand that model to the rest of the country.
A real success story there0 -
Nothing new came from that article except the first high profile admittance that the funding disparity has made a mess of the football championship. It once again shows that the argument that the money was just for primary school kids or had no effect on the improvement in Dublin GAA across the board is absolute nonsense. Even the Leinster council chairman, someone who wants to defend the funding disparity, has confirmed the obvious.
So the Dublin coaching program didn't end in 2017. Where are you getting the impression it did? Instead of unbalanced funding in favour of Dublin, it's now unbalanced funding in favour of Dublin, Meath, Louth, Wicklow and Kildare. This is after almost 2 decades of Dublin only schemes.
Not the plan- once again pat directly contradicts you on the intention
we need the coaching that is happening in Dublin to continue. And we need to expand that model to the rest of the country.
On the plus side if they roll it out on stages well eventually figure out which county you support as soon as you stop complaining about that aspect0 -
Then there was this gem
To be fair you already rolled back from claiming 90 coaches so you were in fast retreat at this point.
Pat makes it nice and clear:
Indeed the model is great value for the GAA since they only actually pay half the cost, the clubs have to have skin the game so the GAA can get twice the benefit of what they put in through the commitment of their partners. So happy are the GAA that they’re actively using it elsewhere now
A real success story there
So you trawled through my posts and came back with posts that are factually correct. I'm not sure what the point of that is? Which part of the below post is incorrect?
I've already said that the clubs pay for half the wages of the coach in the Dublin only scheme. The rest is paid by taxpayers, the GAA and the Leinster council. This adds up to more than 30 million since 2002.
If Dublin have around 90 clubs and around 75 coaches, that is nearly one per club. Definitely nearly one per club for all the clubs in the top divisions.
Dublin are way overfunded and have access to far more coaches to anyone else. From 2015, Dublin only had 12% of the total of registered players aged 8-18.
I think you were stung badly by me catching you out fiddling the numbers but quoting factually correct posts from myself and trying to claim they're otherwise won't cut the mustard.
Like I've always said, every other county had between one and six while Dublin had almost one per club. Obviously, a few junior clubs never had access to a coach. You've tried to write off two decades of funding disparity but I've repeatedly stated that this can't be done. Teehan acknowledges that this funding has decimated the football championship. He accepts that the reason Dublin ladies and male footballers are dominating at the moment is because of the disproportionate funding Dublin received since 2002.
The mistake he's making is thinking that giving 4 other counties disproportionate funding will make everything ok. Obviously, that's nonsense. Especially when you look at what Dublin spend on games development funding now. Almost 4 million per year.0 -
Not the plan- once again pat directly contradicts you on the intention
On the plus side if they roll it out on stages well eventually figure out which county you support as soon as you stop complaining about that aspect
So the Dublin funding didn't finish in 2017 then? Another porkie exposed.
What did Teehan contradict me on? Do you know the difference between the present and future tense?
Again one of your posts is framed as some sort of expose. This is all common knowledge. You have revealed nothing new. None of it goes in any way against the argument to split Dublin. As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, 2 decades of funding disparity has left Dublin GAA in a position where they have resources far behind everyone else. That's why they must be split. They had their own special scheme and have benefitted in a major way off the back of it. The unjust scheme is irreversible.
Just to illustrate again that the disparity has not ended. Let's compare Dublin and Cork. Cork had 2,041 registered youth teams in 2019. Dublin had 2,049. Cork have a far bigger area to cover but only had 7 coaches to do this job, Dublin had 64.0 -
I would imagine the GAA will just get some PR Company to package, South Dublin, Fingal and Dublin city GAA it would actually be a huge earner having three GAA teams in dublin, so when GAA realise that and its packaged that way it WILL happen, once money is involved.0
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So you trawled through my posts and came back with posts that are factually correct. I'm not sure what the point of that is? Which part of the below post is incorrect?
I've already said that the clubs pay for half the wages of the coach in the Dublin only scheme. The rest is paid by taxpayers, the GAA and the Leinster council. This adds up to more than 30 million since 2002.
If Dublin have around 90 clubs and around 75 coaches, that is nearly one per club. Definitely nearly one per club for all the clubs in the top divisions.
Dublin are way overfunded and have access to far more coaches to anyone else. From 2015, Dublin only had 12% of the total of registered players aged 8-18.
I think you were stung badly by me catching you out fiddling the numbers but quoting factually correct posts from myself and trying to claim they're otherwise won't cut the mustard.
Like I've always said, every other county had between one and six while Dublin had almost one per club. Obviously, a few junior clubs never had access to a coach. You've tried to write off two decades of funding disparity but I've repeatedly stated that this can't be done. Teehan acknowledges that this funding has decimated the football championship. He accepts that the reason Dublin ladies and male footballers are dominating at the moment is because of the disproportionate funding Dublin received since 2002.
The mistake he's making is thinking that giving 4 other counties disproportionate funding will make everything ok. Obviously, that's nonsense. Especially when you look at what Dublin spend on games development funding now. Almost 4 million per year.
You do realise that 90, 75 and 64 are different numbers right?
You do get that 90 > 75 > 64 right?
You do realise that if I pay 50% of something that I’ve only paid for half of it right?
Cause you’re posts are getting more comical as your misrepresentations are exposed0 -
You do realise that 90, 75 and 64 are different numbers right?
You do get that 90 > 75 > 64 right?
You do realise that if I pay 50% of something that I’ve only paid for half of it right?
Cause you’re posts are getting more comical as your misrepresentations are exposed
This is desperate stuff. Do you know numbers can change from year to year? I know you want to limit this to a couple of years but I've told you, the disparity was for 2 decades. The number of coaches have changed throughout that time. Some clubs haven't had access to coaches every year.
You've yet again failed to answer any question put to you. After all your trawling you still can't come up with a coherent argument to justify the enormous over funding of Dublin. The Leinster Council chairman has faced up to the major issues caused by the funding disparity. Maybe time for you to do the same?0 -
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