The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

tritium

flasher0030 wrote: »

The GAA cannot provide the charitable windfall that was provided to Dublin to allow them to achieve that All-Ireland win that Bertie was determined to orchestrate. But if there can be a combination of splitting Dublin and providing a decent increased level of finance to other counties, it might level the playing field somewhat.

The GAA already provides it. Per capita at present the rest of Leinster gets substantially more funding than dublin to develop and promote the game. You may not like per capita but for the east coast, with its well developed infrastructure and decent population sizes it’s the only real basis that makes sense for development and promotion funding.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

If funding is the issue then what others are doing and plan to do is completely relevant

The over funding of Dublin for near 2 decades is the issue. We can't go back and fund everyone fairly like should have been done but we can deal with a county operating on a professional basis now.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

I think you’ll find Dublin already have a pretty effective plan for all that

Therefore no need for a split:)

Maybe we should develop a plan to maximise other counties financial power instead. Dublin, Kerry Limerick and cork (possibly a few others) can provide guidance here to enable other counties of all sizes to maximise their potential

The split will of course assist Gaelic games at a local level but obviously the main reason for it is the financial disparity and the results of it.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

I didnt say that. I said that under 30,000 between 8 and 18 were registered, these were the main focus of the money. If there were under 30,000 kids in Antrim registered and they received the enormous over funding, then calls for them to be split would be made.

They weren't though, it was Dublin who received the millions. Hence why they must be split.

My kids must have been mistaken about the GPO that visted their school and worked with all the kids regardless of whether they were registered with a club or not

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

The split will of course assist Gaelic games at a local level but obviously the main reason for it is the financial disparity and the results of it.

And once you’ve redistributed the money they’re would be no financial disparity under your proposal. Any benefit from it couldn’t extend beyond the current crop of young players since everything would be equalised from that point on. So a permanent split even under your (incorrect) view of the world makes no sense

Therefore you’re argument has no basis

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Was it fair that Dublin were being asked to compete while having nowhere near the same access to pitches. That kids in dublin didn’t have the same opportunity to play Gaelic games, to the extent the sport was being lost to the capital? Was it fair that situation had been allowed to develop and worsen for years without anything being done? Was it fair that green land in dublin was being divvied up and built on for the benefit of the crowd in the tent at the Galway races. That the cost to rent (god forbid buy) what was left was spiralling beyond anything elsewhere on the country.

If land was the issue then why was millions of euros granted to Dublin GAA to pay for a huge number of coaches? The coaches helped standards in Dublin GAA a lot but I don't think they owned much land.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

The GAA already provides it. Per capita at present the rest of Leinster gets substantially more funding than dublin to develop and promote the game. You may not like per capita but for the east coast, with its well developed infrastructure and decent population sizes it’s the only real basis that makes sense for development and promotion funding.

So the GAA doesn't provide it. You're going around busting all your own arguments here.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

My kids must have been mistaken about the GPO that visted their school and worked with all the kids regardless of whether they were registered with a club or not

As I've stated, the coaches went into primary and secondary schools for player recruitment but as the Dublin county board strategic manager stated, the clubs decided what tasks the coach undertook. Improving standards within the clubs who employed them was their main task.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

If land was the issue then why was millions of euros granted to Dublin GAA to pay for a huge number of coaches? The coaches helped standards in Dublin GAA a lot but I don't think they owned much land.

Um because as I already pointed out to you, no matter what way you slice and dice dublin it won’t solve that particular problem. That horse bolted when Bertie did all his deals in the tent at the Galway races. Anything he gave dublin he took many times over. So different solutions are needed.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

As I've stated, the coaches went into primary and secondary schools for player recruitment but as the Dublin county board strategic manager stated, the clubs decided what tasks the coach undertook. Improving standards within the clubs who employed them was their main task.

Again my kids must be mistaken. The GPO seemed to be working on teaching them all skills but clearly that was a cover and really they were just interested in the subscriptions

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

And once you’ve redistributed the money they’re would be no financial disparity under your proposal. Any benefit from it couldn’t extend beyond the current crop of young players since everything would be equalised from that point on. So a permanent split even under your (incorrect) view of the world makes no sense

Therefore you’re argument has no basis

Again, I know these pesky facts are annoying for you but the financial disparity lasted nearly 2 decades. The results of that is that Dublin GAA now spend over 2 million on salaries, 2 million on expenses, 1.5 million on team preparations and close to 4 million on games development. That last part is key. 4 million on games development means that Dublin still spend far more than everyone else. As it turns out, receiving millions of euros in development funding does not just benefit on field results but off field as well.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

Again, I know these pesky facts are annoying for you but the financial disparity lasted nearly 2 decades. The results of that is that Dublin GAA now spend over 2 million on salaries, 2 million on expenses, 1.5 million on team preparations and close to 4 million on games development. That last part is key. 4 million on games development means that Dublin still spend far more than everyone else. As it turns out, receiving millions of euros in development funding does not just benefit on field results but off field as well.

But your “plan” sees all this redistributed right? Therefore the argument for the split disappears completely over a short time

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Um because as I already pointed out to you, no matter what way you slice and dice dublin it won’t solve that particular problem. That horse bolted when Bertie did all his deals in the tent at the Galway races. Anything he gave dublin he took many times over. So different solutions are needed.

So the funding for a huge number of coaches did what to assist with the land issues? The 4 council's will be better positioned to tackle this issue, that's not in doubt.

Also, if Bertie didn't grant Dublin the millions of euros then Dublin GAA would be in a position to spend around 20 million on Hollystown golf club and spawell!

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

But your “plan” sees all this redistributed right? Therefore the argument for the split disappears completely over a short time

Eh? The distribution would be to the 4 new counties. So the issue of a county operating with a crazy level of resources would disappear instantly.

ArielAtom

The poster you are engaging with does not know the role of a GPO. I have dealt with the lm since 2007. If you get your information 3rd hand you may lose something in translation. I think this is a point I fact. Clearly no understanding of the daily role a GPO does. To use the term recruitment when these coaches are coaching kids of all abilities and interests is disingenuous to say the very least.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

Eh? The distribution would be to the 4 new counties. So the issue of a county operating with a crazy level of resources would disappear instantly.

I thought your plan would see fair funding to every county?

If that happened then youd have to concede there was no disparity. The disparity is your (flawed but never mind) argument for a split

Therefore any argument you have for a split disappears. Even if only some counties are “fair” relative to dublin it actually disappears unless you want to split them too

Pretty self evident I would have thought

Enquiring

ArielAtom wrote: »

The poster you are engaging with does not know the role of a GPO. I have dealt with the lm since 2007. If you get your information 3rd hand you may lose something in translation. I think this is a point I fact. Clearly no understanding of the daily role a GPO does. To use the term recruitment when these coaches are coaching kids of all abilities and interests is disingenuous to say the very least.

I think enough of your lies have been exposed on this thread already to know anything you say needs to be fact checked.

The coaches go into primary schools and secondary schools to put on coaching sessions. This has never been denied, it also helped with the improvement in standards in Dublin GAA.

They only thing being denied is that the coaches primary role was to improve standards in the club they were hired by. Basically questioning the word of the Dublin county board strategic program manager, it's his job to know exactly what role the coaches undertake but some here are saying that he's wrong and they're right.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

I thought your plan would see fair funding to every county?

If that happened then youd have to concede there was no disparity. The disparity is your (flawed but never mind) argument for a split

Therefore any argument you have for a split disappears

Pretty self evident I would have thought

Again, you obviously find it uncomfortable but you're ignoring close to 10 million per year spent just on wages and development and almost 2 decades of funding disparity. I can give you the breakdown again if you want? Over 2 million on salaries, 1.5 million on...........................

Lost Ormond

Enquiring wrote: »

I think enough of your lies have been exposed on this thread already to know anything you say needs to be fact checked.

The coaches go into primary schools and secondary schools to put on coaching sessions. This has never been denied, it also helped with the improvement in standards in Dublin GAA.

They only thing being denied is that the coaches primary role was to improve standards in the club they were hired by. Basically questioning the word of the Dublin county board strategic program manager, it's his job to know exactly what role the coaches undertake but some here are saying that he's wrong and they're right.

These coaches teaching basics to many kids who wont be near county squads at any level or even play often or regularly with clubs is nothing to do with the inter county squads successes of recent years.

rebel girl 15

@Enquiring please keep it civil, a lot of these posts are not civil

Happens again you will be having a few days off as this is not the first warning you have gotten

Enquiring

Lost Ormond wrote: »

These coaches teaching basics to many kids who wont be near county squads at any level or even play often or regularly with clubs is nothing to do with the inter county squads successes of recent years.

The coaches main role is within the clubs they're hired by. These number under 30,000 for registered players aged between 8 and 18. The huge number of coaches most definitely had a major impact in developing these players and increasing standards all across Dublin GAA.

ArielAtom

You have hit the nail on the head, during their working week the spend their time coaching all levels of skill in numerous schools. At the weekend they generally run the clubs academy and offer help if they see a novice coach struggling with a session. They do the GAA coach the coaches sessions a couple of times a year. This gives new coaches the fundamentals of structuring a session while hitting the required basic skill set development. They do very little if any hands on coaching in the club. Some may get involved with a team, but that is out of hours and them volunteering. Our club is quite large so we have employed a 2nd coach. We fundraise to meet his salary. Of course you will get some kids who may not have joined the club due to the GPO visit to a school.

But is certainly not recruitment. But most posters do understand that.

ShyMets

olestoepoke wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind, what county are you from?

Best not to go there. Will just get you a Mod warning.

Enquiring

ArielAtom wrote: »

You have hit the nail on the head, during their working week the spend their time coaching all levels of skill in numerous schools. At the weekend they generally run the clubs academy and offer help if they see a novice coach struggling with a session. They do the GAA coach the coaches sessions a couple of times a year. This gives new coaches the fundamentals of structuring a session while hitting the required basic skill set development. They do very little if any hands on coaching in the club. Some may get involved with a team, but that is out of hours and them volunteering. Our club is quite large so we have employed a 2nd coach. We fundraise to meet his salary. Of course you will get some kids who may not have joined the club due to the GPO visit to a school.

But is certainly not recruitment. But most posters do understand that.

And isn't it fantastic? Having coaches going into schools to promote Gaelic games. Improve their skills from a young age, encourage them to join their local club. Then improve standards within the club by coaching other coaches, coaching teams, putting on advanced programs, cúl camps etc. Having one of these GDO'S dedicated to improving all areas of a club is an incredible resource to have and especially when they're assigned to one club only.

Why oh why did the GAA limit this coaching scheme to one county? Why wasn't it rolled out across the country? It has had incredible results for Dublin GAA. The standard of men's and women's club football and hurling has increased dramatically. And we all know the knock on effect it has had to inter county football and hurling at underage and senior. The effect off the field has been even more incredible. Dublin now receive 2.3 million in sponsorship off the back of their unprecedented levels of success. They have now increased spending on games development to 3.8 million.

The Dublin only scheme has been a remarkable success. The plan drawn up by the Strategic review committee was an excellent one. The only issue is that this plan was restricted to one county. We should all be angry with those behind this decision. It's now left us in a position where the only option is to split Dublin and now try to spread the funding 2 decades after it should have been done.

Doing it now is not too late though, that is the key. With funding all counties fairly and getting coaches spread out across the country, we can see real growth in standards in hurling and football. Our aim should be to have as many counties as possible competing at the top level. The opportunity to create new championship structures will also open up. We might look at changes in the provincial championships, with Leinster now having 15 counties this will have to be done. We can look at having an open draw or maybe a world cup type championship. The possibilities here will be very exciting.

The chance to have open, vibrant, competitive championships are there for us if we want to take it.

Rosita

ShyMets wrote: »

Best not to go there. Will just get you a Mod warning.

To be fair, the "out of curiosity where are you from?" question is rarely asked in Ireland "out of curiosity".

With regard to 'place' one positive thing about the whole Dublin debate is the recognition of and concern for Leitrim football. When Kerry played in six All Ireland finals in a row and won four of them back in the 2000s nobody could care less about Leitrim or how many coaches they had.

olestoepoke

Rosita wrote: »

To be fair, the "out of curiosity where are you from?" question is rarely asked in Ireland "out of curiosity".

With regard to 'place' one positive thing about the whole Dublin debate is the recognition of and concern for Leitrim football. When Kerry played in six All Ireland finals in a row and won four of them back in the 2000s nobody could care less about Leitrim or how many coaches they had.

I wasn't aware that mods had warned people yesterday not to ask said poster what county they were from so apologies for that(deleted since). However, I don't think I've ever seen anyone as obsessed with any one subject, seriously check their post history its amazing. So I was curious if where they were from could give some context, for example if they were from Mayo then given their many disappointments there could be a bitterness toward Dublin and indeed the whole system. Also the poster I was asking about had himself asked another poster "what county are you from" so I presumed they themselves wouldn't have an issue with me asking the same question just for some context.

seligehgit

olestoepoke wrote: »

I wasn't aware that mods had warned people yesterday not to ask said poster what county they were from so apologies for that(deleted since). However, I don't think I've ever seen anyone as obsessed with any one subject, seriously check their post history its amazing. So I was curious if where they were from could give some context, for example if they were from Mayo then given their many disappointments there could be a bitterness toward Dublin and indeed the whole system. Also the poster I was asking about had himself asked another poster "what county are you from" so I presumed they themselves wouldn't have an issue with me asking the same question just for some context.

See post #6584

olestoepoke

There was no issue with asking the question to allow posters to put Enquiring's argument/agenda/bias vis a vis this subject matter in some sort of context.

However Enquiring has repeatedly been unwilling to answer the question and hence the repetition of this query is futile.

olestoepoke

seligehgit wrote: »

See post #6584

olestoepoke

There was no issue with asking the question to allow posters to put Enquiring's argument/agenda/bias vis a vis this subject matter in some sort of context.

However Enquiring has repeatedly been unwilling to answer the question and hence the repetition of this query is futile.

Oh ok thanks for clearing that up. But as I've said I find it hypocritical of him when he asked another poster a while ago in another thread what county they were from.

olestoepoke

ArielAtom

olestoepoke wrote: »

That just about sums this whole thread up😂

dobman88

ArielAtom wrote: »

That just about sums this whole thread up😂

Yeah. He has absolutely zero credibility. Shown himself up over the last couple of days also.

mitchelsontour

Rosita wrote: »

With regard to 'place' one positive thing about the whole Dublin debate is the recognition of and concern for Leitrim football. When Kerry played in six All Ireland finals in a row and won four of them back in the 2000s nobody could care less about Leitrim or how many coaches they had.

One question as regards this statement - how much money were the Kerry or Tyrone County Boards ( the 2 powerhouses in the 2000's )receiving from the GAA, Sport Ireland or the Government to the detriment of every other county in the country?

Enquiring

mitchelsontour wrote: »

One question as regards this statement - how much money were the Kerry or Tyrone County Boards ( the 2 powerhouses in the 2000's )receiving from the GAA, Sport Ireland or the Government to the detriment of every other county in the country?

Irrespective of the population of a county, the issues with participation in a county, the standard of Gaelic games in a county and so on, everyone received in and around the same level of funding. It was then up to each county to work hard and try their best with the resources available to them.

As we all know, this was true for every county bar one.

Rosita

mitchelsontour wrote: »

One question as regards this statement - how much money were the Kerry or Tyrone County Boards ( the 2 powerhouses in the 2000's )receiving from the GAA, Sport Ireland or the Government to the detriment of every other county in the country?

Let me guess...................more than Leitrim? Or does it matter?

SheepsClothing

Rosita wrote: »

Let me guess...................more than Leitrim? Or does it matter?

Yes....... If the central governing body have any interest in fair competition, they shouldn't be favouring any one county over another.

Rosita

SheepsClothing wrote: »

Yes....... If the central governing body have any interest in fair competition, they shouldn't be favouring any one county over another.

So the GAA should have same infrastructure and investment in Leitrim and Longford as in Dublin with 20 times the population? In what economic universe would that happen? Should there be an M50 built in Carrick on Shannon just because Dublin have one?

mitchelsontour

Rosita wrote: »

Let me guess...................more than Leitrim? Or does it matter?

According to the figures for coaching/development grants that Sean McGoldrick published.

Kerry - 730k
Leitrim -565K
Tyrone- 560K

So over a 10 year period Leitrim received approx the same as Tyrone per annum and about 16,500 less than Kerry per annum.

Nothing excessively disproportionate about these numbers.

Enquiring

Rosita wrote: »

So the GAA should gave same infrastructure and investment in Leitrim and Longford as in Dublin with 29 times the population? In what economic universe would that happen? Should there be an M50 built in Carrick on Shannon just because Dublin have one?

Cork have about half of Dublin's population. Cork had 2,041 registered youth teams in 2019. Dublin had 2,049. Cork have a far bigger area to cover but only had 7 coaches to do this job, Dublin had 64.

Rosita

Enquiring wrote: »

Cork have about half of Dublin's population. Cork had 2,041 registered youth teams in 2019. Dublin had 2,049. Cork have a far bigger area to cover but only had 7 coaches to do this job, Dublin had 64.

Funny how it doesn't take us long to get away from Leitrim.

mitchelsontour

Rosita wrote: »

Funny how it doesn't take us long to get away from Leitrim.

Please see my post replying about Leitrim above.

ArielAtom

Rosita wrote: »

Funny how it doesn't take us long to get away from Leitrim.

Wow. It’s gone from 100 coaches to 64. Some posters and maths really don’t go well together. It’s either that or it deflecting from the true figures. Me thinks it’s the latter. Deflection seems to be the norm.

ooter

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-30981052.html

ArielAtom

ooter wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-30981052.html

50m donated!!

ooter

Could you imagine the amount of coaches cork gaa could've had with that money.

ArielAtom

ooter wrote: »

Could you imagine the amount of coaches cork gaa could've had with that money.

The standard reply to that figure is it was a capital project. It was for Cork GAA. End of.

JeffKenna

ArielAtom wrote: »

50m donated!!

And poor Dublin have to play in their home pitch with a capacity of 14k. Crazy really.

mitchelsontour

JeffKenna wrote: »

And poor Dublin have to play in their home pitch with a capacity of 14k. Crazy really.

Which they have not redeveloped despite all their success and are forced to play in a "neutral" venue less than 5km from their beloved home ground.

ArielAtom

JeffKenna wrote: »

And poor Dublin have to play in their home pitch with a capacity of 14k. Crazy really.

It’s about time you acknowledged Dublins home ground. Fair play.

ArielAtom

It is wonderful to eventually see the acceptance of Parnell Park being the home of Dublin GAA. Great to see.

mitchelsontour

ArielAtom wrote: »

It’s about time you acknowledged Dublins home ground. Fair play.

If it's their home ground when was the last time the senior footballers played a game there?