The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

blanch152

mitchelsontour wrote: »

Could you start the ball rolling with some ideas from a Dublin perspective as to what you would see as a fair and reasonable method of the redistribution of resources to rebalance the inequities currently existing.

Development Funding should be allocated on a per capita basis, based on the number of under-18s living in the county. This ensures that all juveniles get an equal chance to get access to the same development funding, as that is what it is intended for - increasing the uptake of the young population in Gaelic Games.

If the objective is to increase competitiveness in Gaelic Games inter-county competition, the first item on the agenda should be amalgamation of uncompetitive counties. All Division 3 and 4 counties should be considered for amalgamation.

ArielAtom

mitchelsontour wrote: »

Could you start the ball rolling with some ideas from a Dublin perspective as to what you would see as a fair and reasonable method of the redistribution of resources to rebalance the inequities currently existing.

Thats just what I've done. This is not a Dublin problem.

tritium

mitchelsontour wrote: »

Could you start the ball rolling with some ideas from a Dublin perspective as to what you would see as a fair and reasonable method of the redistribution of resources to rebalance the inequities currently existing.

From my end some thoughts

Games development- per capita basis for allocation with a transparently calculated adjustment for counties with specific issues such as poor infrastructure or lack of facilities or with exceptionally small catchment (I’d see only a handful of counties availing of the latter)

Games promotion staff - every county matches funding, either through clubs or overall level. Counties with histories of underperforming at senior level will have an allowance made here for a period.

Sponsorship- commercial manager appointed centrally for each region (region is >250k people say) to help counties maximise sponsorship. Their remit will allow them to seek combined sponsorship deals for counties in their region if appropriate. Fully open view of counties commercials.

Cap on inter county spending.

Inter county spend restricted if counties aren’t meeting commitments to games development.

Commitment to ensure that all counties have adequate and sustainable access to pitches, including buying land if required

Limited scheme for players to transfer between counties. Wouldn’t be available to division 1 counties to avail of

ooter

tritium wrote: »

Inter county spend restricted if counties aren’t meeting commitments to games development.

I can think of a few counties that will have to be dragged kicking and screaming in to agreeing to that.

Enquiring

mitchelsontour wrote: »

Could you start the ball rolling with some ideas from a Dublin perspective as to what you would see as a fair and reasonable method of the redistribution of resources to rebalance the inequities currently existing.

The problem is that it's impossible to rebalance the inequalities. The funding disparity went on for too long. Redistributing funds now is too late. The horse has bolted.

A 2 decade head start is huge! While every other county were scrapping by with limited funding and competing with hard work and volunteers alone, Dublin GAA were building themselves a professional organisation with highly paid employees and a huge number of coaches. This development was backed financially by all GAA members and taxpayers.

Look at the results of this. Dublin GAA have increased sponsorship to 2.3 million per year. It's ever increasing, it was 1.5 million in 2016. Dublin spend over 2 million on wages and salaries, 2 million on administrative expenses. For team preparations, they spend 1.5 million every year. Then crucially, the total spend on games development funding in 3.8 million per year. How can we even attempt to have fair competitions if one county has this level of finance available to them?

ooter

I will deflect back to the level of finance cork GAA have had made available to them, surely if we're all for fairness that should be condemned also and called out for how unfair it is?

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

The problem is that it's impossible to rebalance the inequalities. The funding disparity went on for too long. Redistributing funds now is too late. The horse has bolted.

A 2 decade head start is huge! While every other county were scrapping by with limited funding and competing with hard work and volunteers alone, Dublin GAA were building themselves a professional organisation with highly paid employees and a huge number of coaches. This development was backed financially by all GAA members and taxpayers.

Look at the results of this. Dublin GAA have increased sponsorship to 2.3 million per year. It's ever increasing, it was 1.5 million in 2016. Dublin spend over 2 million on wages and salaries, 2 million on administrative expenses. For team preparations, they spend 1.5 million every year. Then crucially, the total spend on games development funding in 3.8 million per year. How can we even attempt to have fair competitions if one county has this level of finance available to them?

You keep saying it’s impossible to rebalance the financial inequality

You keep saying you’d have a fair system that gave all counties what they needed and pooled sponsorship

Which is it? A fair system is impossible or you have a (well hidden) plan to create a fair system. Because if it’s the latter, as you’ve assured us for so many pages then, as I told you already, your argument for a split falls apart

mitchelsontour

tritium wrote: »

From my end some thoughts

Games development- per capita basis for allocation with a transparently calculated adjustment for counties with specific issues such as poor infrastructure or lack of facilities or with exceptionally small catchment (I’d see only a handful of counties availing of the latter)

Games promotion staff - every county matches funding, either through clubs or overall level. Counties with histories of underperforming at senior level will have an allowance made here for a period.

Sponsorship- commercial manager appointed centrally for each region (region is >250k people say) to help counties maximise sponsorship. Their remit will allow them to seek combined sponsorship deals for counties in their region if appropriate. Fully open view of counties commercials.

Cap on inter county spending.

Inter county spend restricted if counties aren’t meeting commitments to games development.

Commitment to ensure that all counties have adequate and sustainable access to pitches, including buying land if required

Limited scheme for players to transfer between counties. Wouldn’t be available to division 1 counties to avail of

Tritium thanks for a reasoned and balanced response. I am tight for time at the moment at work but will reply later with some comments of my own on what you have proposed.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

Enough money has been given to promote hurling as you know. More won't influence Dublin fans to attend games unfortunately.

I was just pointing out the facts. Croke Park is the Dublin senior footballers home stadium. They've played every single home championship game there bar 1 for decades. At least 50 years.

It went from all home games played in Croke Park to all championship games played in Croke Park. Not one played outside their home stadium for 10 years. Amazingly, this decision to give the Dublin footballers home advantage for every single championship game came around the same time that increased funding was pumped into Dublin GAA.

You've quoted my post but for some reason you haven't actually responded to it- it seems to sort of just sit above your post like a lonely artifact. Here again is what I had asked you

But to my point that you’ve completely failed to address- do you agree that finals should be played at Croker? What’s yours view on semi finals? Do you agree that if dublin cant play finals there no one else can expect to either? Do you think Kerry in the 00s had an unfair advantage at the latter stage of the AI due to being more familiar with Croke park than many of their opponents? Did Kilkenny have a similar advantage in the hurling? Cork in ladies football and camogie? Why did home advantage not lead to dublin winning more AIs in the years from 1984 to 2010 (1)?

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

You keep saying it’s impossible to rebalance the financial inequality

You keep saying you’d have a fair system that gave all counties what they needed and pooled sponsorship

Which is it? A fair system is impossible or you have a (well hidden) plan to create a fair system. Because if it’s the latter, as you’ve assured us for so many pages then, as I told you already, your argument for a split falls apart

It is impossible to have any fair competitions when one county received 2 decades of funding far above any other county. It's as simple as that. It's left things in a position beyond repair. How do you think it can be fair if one county is spending 3.8 million on games development alone? This is before we take into account all the other spending power. If we allow it to continue, it will not be just the Dublin men's and women's footballers that decimate the championships but it will increase across the board. It's the inevitable conclusion of one county competing in amateur sports on a professional basis.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

You've quoted my post but for some reason you haven't actually responded to it- it seems to sort of just sit above your post like a lonely artifact. Here again is what I had asked you

So you accept that Croke Park is the home ground to the Dublin senior footballers?

flasher0030

ooter wrote: »

I will deflect back to the level of finance cork GAA have had made available to them, surely if we're all for fairness that should be condemned also and called out for how unfair it is?

Instead of deflecting, as you've admitted to doing so - why don't you just address the post immediately prior to yours. The post which sums everything up in plain black and white. Everything else that tries to derail these facts is just deflection.

The money given to Cork was in relation to the stadium. Dublin don't have that problem because, for one their so called home ground (Parnell Park) is used so sparingly that it doesn't need any renovations; and secondly they are actually provided a fine state of the art stadium for nothing.

ooter

Why should cork be given money for a stadium, is that fair?
Abbotstown and spawell have been mentioned on here umpteen times, did Dublin GAA receive any funding for either of those acquisitions?
As I already stated previously, every county in the country gets free use of croke park and rightly so.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

So you accept that Croke Park is the home ground to the Dublin senior footballers?

Still not answering any questions so? Do the footballers play for a different county than the Dublin Hurlers and ladies?

What's their home ground btw?

I do accept btw that Dublin play too many games in Croke park, I'm just enough of a realist to realise that this is something other Leinster counties have pushed based on self interest rather than a cruel Dublin plot. If the rest of Leinster wanted to change it I don't think it would be a big hurdle to achieve. When it come to semi finals and finals though I've no issue with Croke park being used for any team, given playing there would be a career highlight for many players. If a team is good enough to play there often on that basis fair play to them, no one minded Kerry or Tyrone being more familiar than their opponents with Croke park over the years

Jaden

flasher0030 wrote: »

The money given to Cork was in relation to the stadium. Dublin don't have that problem because, for one their so called home ground (Parnell Park) is used so sparingly that it doesn't need any renovations; and secondly they are actually provided a fine state of the art stadium for nothing.

I don't think it's for nothing, nor is the offer to nominate it as a home ground exclusive to Dublin. if it was, in that no other county could avail of this offer, then it would indeed be an unfair advantage

Using Croke Park for League games has obvious financial advantages for the GAA as a whole.

Dublin play there yes, and this is undoubtedly provides them at least some form of advantage. That said, if it is to be considered as a true home ground, then Dublin are unique in that they are the only County not permitted to train in their home ground.

That said, which games should not be played in Croke park?

* Should league games be compelled to be played in Parnell Park?
* Should the Leinster council be forbidden from setting fixtures there, as voted on? (With maybe the exception of the provincial final).
* What about S8 or semi's and finals - should the GAA compel a rotation of location for these games?

Is the only way to prevent the perception of unfair advantage to sell Croke Park, and rebuild the GAA national stadium somewhere else, like say, Athlone?

FWIW, I'm in favour of this. YMMV.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

It is impossible to have any fair competitions when one county received 2 decades of funding far above any other county. It's as simple as that. It's left things in a position beyond repair. How do you think it can be fair if one county is spending 3.8 million on games development alone? This is before we take into account all the other spending power. If we allow it to continue, it will not be just the Dublin men's and women's footballers that decimate the championships but it will increase across the board. It's the inevitable conclusion of one county competing in amateur sports on a professional basis.

A hundred years of Kerry being top of the pile but there was no issue and everything was grand. Poor Leitrim had nothing to complain about atall atall,

A decade of Dublin being top dogs and its the end of days

mitchelsontour

tritium wrote: »

A hundred years of Kerry being top of the pile but there was no issue and everything was grand. Poor Leitrim had nothing to complain about atall atall,

A decade of Dublin being top dogs and its the end of days

I don't believe that Kerry received excessive funding from the GAA, Sports Council or Government during that period, the same goes for Kilkenny in hurling.

Dublin have received excessive funding exclusively from the GAA.

I don't remember anyone begrudging Dublins great team of the 70s.
That maybe because there was no blatant imbalance of funding

ooter

If the funding Dublin received for games development over the last 20 years had been given instead in one go to put towards the redevelopment of Parnell park would that have been ok?

tritium

mitchelsontour wrote: »

I don't believe that Kerry received excessive funding from the GAA, Sports Council or Government during that period, the same goes for Kilkenny in hurling.

Dublin have received excessive funding exclusively from the GAA.

I don't remember anyone begrudging Dublins great team of the 70s.
That maybe because there was no blatant imbalance of funding

Actually, many of the same arguments were trotted out about the dubs in the 70's. I was only a child then but I do remember reading a fair bit about it later on. I'll see if I can dig some stuff up later (no promises since its probably a bit of digging and time is tight)

ooter

Nobody begrudged Kerry the washing machine money or the Adidas money.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Still not answering any questions so? Do the footballers play for a different county than the Dublin Hurlers and ladies?

What's their home ground btw?

I do accept btw that Dublin play too many games in Croke park, I'm just enough of a realist to realise that this is something other Leinster counties have pushed based on self interest rather than a cruel Dublin plot. If the rest of Leinster wanted to change it I don't think it would be a big hurdle to achieve. When it come to semi finals and finals though I've no issue with Croke park being used for any team, given playing there would be a career highlight for many players. If a team is good enough to play there often on that basis fair play to them, no one minded Kerry or Tyrone being more familiar than their opponents with Croke park over the years

The claim is that the Dublin senior footballers home ground is Croke Park. I think we can all agree that this is the case.

mitchelsontour

ooter wrote: »

Nobody begrudged Kerry the washing machine money or the Adidas money.

How many millions did they get for those commercial endeavors?
More like a few thousand for a holiday fund.

By the way Cork were the first ones to go with Adidas and cause controversy.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

A hundred years of Kerry being top of the pile but there was no issue and everything was grand. Poor Leitrim had nothing to complain about atall atall,

A decade of Dublin being top dogs and its the end of days

If Kerry had been bankrolled by all of us for 2 decades and had the financial power Dublin now possess as a result of that, then calls for them to be split would be happening also and I'm sure many Dubs would be at the front of that.

ooter

mitchelsontour wrote: »

How many millions did they get for those commercial endeavors?
More like a few thousand for a holiday fund.

By the way Cork were the first ones to go with Adidas and cause controversy.

And they were duly punished, unlike the Kerry boys.
As I said nobody begrudged them, but they broke the rules.

mitchelsontour

ooter wrote: »

And they were duly punished, unlike the Kerry boys.
As I said nobody begrudged them, but they broke the rules.

Selective punishment dual players some how avoid any. Cannot imagine why though.

mitchelsontour

Anyway how do the GAA redistribute funding for coaching and assist the other counties make up for 15 years or so of coaching and development inequities aimed towards one county.

ShyMets

mitchelsontour wrote: »

Tritium thanks for a reasoned and balanced response. I am tight for time at the moment at work but will reply later with some comments of my own on what you have proposed.

For someone who is stuck for time you've been very busy replying to other posts

mitchelsontour

ShyMets wrote: »

For someone who is stuck for time you've been very busy replying to other posts

Just about to reply with a longer post.

tritium

mitchelsontour wrote: »

Anyway back on topic how do the GAA redistribute funding for coaching and assist the other counties make up for 15 years or so of coaching and development inequities aimed towards one county.

See (and I’m genuinely not having a dig here) I think you’re asking the wrong question. The way I’d see it the dublin project was a good idea, and I’m not just saying that because I’m a dub. It used funds well- better than the GAA had seen with many initiatives. It forced clubs to be actively involved by putting skin in the game and perhaps most importantly it was managed in a very transparent way to make sure their was accountablity and money wasn’t pissed away. Without that it wouldn’t matter how much money was invested.

The issue for the GAA is they took longer than they should have to roll it out elsewhere. The east Leinster project should have happened maybe 2 or 3 years sooner, when it became apparent that the dublin project was working (we can argue endlessly (and have) about whether it’s money or a once in a generation team behind dublin winning but it’s clear that dublins structures are improved) and by now should cover all of Leinster. I don’t know why it didn’t and I’m sure someone in the Leinster council can give reasons.

Similarly the other provinces should be applying similar schemes. It’s clear if the clubs buy in the number of coaches available can double for the same investment from the GAA. It’s also clear that the process needs to be managed, and that there’s expertise and experience there to do it. There also needs to be realism at a county level- I don’t know if posters here reflect their county boards but certainly folks like Ewan McKenna have promoted this idea that the GAA can just throw money at every county. Dublin is a bigger population, that’s just the reality, and no matter what way it’s cut developing that will cost more. The key is enough money is there and it’s used efficiently.

Then the question reduces to how quickly do you want to or indeed can you get the benefits. Dublin took 8-9 years to win an AI post the funding starting- again we can debate endlessly cause and effect and equally we could debate whether the senior team winning all ireland is the measure of success we should use. However let’s run with that model for now. Under that approach, given the project is about grassroots development were not going to see any team start to outperform overnight. The east Leinster counties are probably highest up the ladder and we should be expecting real progress there in 3-4 years. Some counties have solid youth foundation’s already which should help. Is there a realistic way to accelerate that- I don’t know to be honest. Is more money going to make kids progress faster? Add to this that this dublin team arrived at a point where Kerry and Tyrone were on the decline and you had something of a vacuum in terms of who would succeed them. Realistically more money might shave a year or two of the timeline but I can’t see much more than that. With good teams on the rise for Kerry and a few others and a few years probably in dublin yet it might be a few years before we see a minnow come through, which I think would be the real measure of the process moving in the right direction

Happy to debate any of that btw, if you think there’s a viable way to accelerate the process across the country

ArielAtom

tritium wrote: »

See (and I’m genuinely not having a dig here) I think you’re asking the wrong question. The way I’d see it the dublin project was a good idea, and I’m not just saying that because I’m a dub. It used funds well- better than the GAA had seen with many initiatives. It forced clubs to be actively involved by putting skin in the game and perhaps most importantly it was managed in a very transparent way to make sure their was accountablity and money wasn’t pissed away. Without that it wouldn’t matter how much money was invested.

The issue for the GAA is they took longer than they should have to roll it out elsewhere. The east Leinster project should have happened maybe 2 or 3 years sooner, when it became apparent that the dublin project was working (we can argue endlessly (and have) about whether it’s money or a once in a generation team behind dublin winning but it’s clear that dublins structures are improved) and by now should cover all of Leinster. I don’t know why it didn’t and I’m sure someone in the Leinster council can give reasons.

Similarly the other provinces should be applying similar schemes. It’s clear if the clubs buy in the number of coaches available can double for the same investment from the GAA. It’s also clear that the process needs to be managed, and that there’s expertise and experience there to do it. There also needs to be realism at a county level- I don’t know if posters here reflect their county boards but certainly folks like Ewan McKenna have promoted this idea that the GAA can just throw money at every county. Dublin is a bigger population, that’s just the reality, and no matter what way it’s cut developing that will cost more. The key is enough money is there and it’s used efficiently.

Then the question reduces to how quickly do you want to or indeed can you get the benefits. Dublin took 8-9 years to win an AI post the funding starting- again we can debate endlessly cause and effect and equally we could debate whether the senior team winning all ireland is the measure of success we should use. However let’s run with that model for now. Under that approach, given the project is about grassroots development were not going to see any team start to outperform overnight. The east Leinster counties are probably highest up the ladder and we should be expecting real progress there in 3-4 years. Some counties have solid youth foundation’s already which should help. Is there a realistic way to accelerate that- I don’t know to be honest. Is more money going to make kids progress faster? Add to this that this dublin team arrived at a point where Kerry and Tyrone were on the decline and you had something of a vacuum in terms of who would succeed them. Realistically more money might shave a year or two of the timeline but I can’t see much more than that. With good teams on the rise for Kerry and a few others and a few years probably in Dublin yet it might be a few years before we see a minnow come through, which I think would be the real measure of the process moving in the right direction

Happy to debate any of that btw, if you think there’s a viable way to accelerate the process across the country

Ewan MacKenna is irrelevant as he is not a member of the GAA. The same way in this debate if you are not a member of the association then your point opinions really do not matter. This is a GAA issue and not a Dublin county board issue. For all the talk from posters there is very little input to my suggestions in an earlier post. Still harping on about splitting.

If Dublin (Snr Mens Football Team) are taken out of Croke Park for all games outside of provincial finals, AI Semi Finals and AI finals if thats OK with the everyone, unless if Dublin are in a final it's played outside of Dublin.

The provision of €50,000,000 in capital grants towards the building of a new stadium must be sanctioned. Dublin have purchased land in two locations and they can build on either.

The games development funding has been addressed and as of now Dublin sit mid table in the funding based on a per capita model. This can be ramped up for the poorer performing counties such as Meath and Kildare, but tied into performance based on funding.

If anyone has any other realistic ideas lets discuss. Splitting and discussing historical funding will get us nowhere.

mitchelsontour

tritium wrote: »

From my end some thoughts

Games development- per capita basis for allocation with a transparently calculated adjustment for counties with specific issues such as poor infrastructure or lack of facilities or with exceptionally small catchment (I’d see only a handful of counties availing of the latter)

Games promotion staff - every county matches funding, either through clubs or overall level. Counties with histories of underperforming at senior level will have an allowance made here for a period.

Sponsorship- commercial manager appointed centrally for each region (region is >250k people say) to help counties maximise sponsorship. Their remit will allow them to seek combined sponsorship deals for counties in their region if appropriate. Fully open view of counties commercials.

Cap on inter county spending.

Inter county spend restricted if counties aren’t meeting commitments to games development.

Commitment to ensure that all counties have adequate and sustainable access to pitches, including buying land if required

Limited scheme for players to transfer between counties. Wouldn’t be available to division 1 counties to avail of

Games development- per capita basis for allocation with a transparently calculated adjustment for counties with specific issues such as poor infrastructure or lack of facilities or with exceptionally small catchment (I’d see only a handful of counties availing of the latter) How would you determine per capita basis is that current GAA membership or population based.
Can you define poor infrastructure because if you look at roads and travel time there will be alot of regions that will come under this.

Games promotion staff - every county matches funding, either through clubs or overall level. Counties with histories of underperforming at senior level will have an allowance made here for a period.
Difficult to implement due to population disparity in alot of counties for generation of funds. Small clubs would not have access to coaches to the same extent as larger clubs due to funding inequities.
How about centrally funded coaches for all counties so there is a national ratio of clubs to coaches. ie 1 coach for every 2 clubs or some metric like that. Remove games promotion from county, use central resources for promotion of games on national level and all coaches are trained to same standard. Removes major disparities. open to discussion for ideal solution.


B]Sponsorship- commercial manager appointed centrally for each region (region is >250k people say) to help counties maximise sponsorship. Their remit will allow them to seek combined sponsorship deals for counties in their region if appropriate. Fully open view of counties commercials.[/B] Probably a better solution than central pooling of all sponsorship. but as has been pointed out there are some regions that may have more counties due to population numbers but a good starting point.

Cap on inter county spending. Total agreement, Each county team should have the same spending cap for the league - everyone is playing the same amount of games so should be no arguments there.
Championship spending should be based on the number of games you play.
For argument sake max spend on each game should be say 10,000 (unrealistic number used for example purposes) and your budget increases for every game played.

IF and its a big if the 8 team provincial proposal was to come to fruition then this would be a realistic option.

Same logic should be applies to minor and U20/21 teams.
Weaker counties who play in round robin games have access to extra funding at under age levels to cover costs.

What do you do with travel + hotel costs for the likes of Donegal, Kerry, Cork (especially west Cork footballers), Mayo etc. for games that require significant travel.
Would you have these expenses as a separate line item.


Inter county spend restricted if counties aren’t meeting commitments to games development. This is a good one, but how do you account for counties that are unable to meet this despite their best efforts especially smaller counties where funds are always tight. Hopefully a commercial manager might be able to assist with this. Or you take games development out of counties cands and make it centrally organised as suggested above.


Commitment to ensure that all counties have adequate and sustainable access to pitches, including buying land if required. Fully agree with more emphasis places on counties in Div 3/4 of both hurling and football.

Limited scheme for players to transfer between counties. Wouldn’t be available to division 1 counties to avail of. Would agree totally with this might add a provision that any counties that have been in Div 1 in the previous 3 yrs might be exempt and there has to be some connection with the county you are transferring to.

I would also add that if there was a secondary competition introduced that the Final must be played on All Ireland day have the minor final played the Saturday night before and if a secondary minor competition was introduced have it also played the day before. Make it an All Ireland weekend that every team could aim to make.

Happy to take comments and ideas.

mitchelsontour

tritium wrote: »

See (and I’m genuinely not having a dig here) I think you’re asking the wrong question. The way I’d see it the dublin project was a good idea, and I’m not just saying that because I’m a dub. It used funds well- better than the GAA had seen with many initiatives. It forced clubs to be actively involved by putting skin in the game and perhaps most importantly it was managed in a very transparent way to make sure their was accountablity and money wasn’t pissed away. Without that it wouldn’t matter how much money was invested.

The issue for the GAA is they took longer than they should have to roll it out elsewhere. The east Leinster project should have happened maybe 2 or 3 years sooner, when it became apparent that the dublin project was working (we can argue endlessly (and have) about whether it’s money or a once in a generation team behind dublin winning but it’s clear that dublins structures are improved) and by now should cover all of Leinster. I don’t know why it didn’t and I’m sure someone in the Leinster council can give reasons.

Similarly the other provinces should be applying similar schemes. It’s clear if the clubs buy in the number of coaches available can double for the same investment from the GAA. It’s also clear that the process needs to be managed, and that there’s expertise and experience there to do it. There also needs to be realism at a county level- I don’t know if posters here reflect their county boards but certainly folks like Ewan McKenna have promoted this idea that the GAA can just throw money at every county. Dublin is a bigger population, that’s just the reality, and no matter what way it’s cut developing that will cost more. The key is enough money is there and it’s used efficiently.

Then the question reduces to how quickly do you want to or indeed can you get the benefits. Dublin took 8-9 years to win an AI post the funding starting- again we can debate endlessly cause and effect and equally we could debate whether the senior team winning all ireland is the measure of success we should use. However let’s run with that model for now. Under that approach, given the project is about grassroots development were not going to see any team start to outperform overnight. The east Leinster counties are probably highest up the ladder and we should be expecting real progress there in 3-4 years. Some counties have solid youth foundation’s already which should help. Is there a realistic way to accelerate that- I don’t know to be honest. Is more money going to make kids progress faster? Add to this that this dublin team arrived at a point where Kerry and Tyrone were on the decline and you had something of a vacuum in terms of who would succeed them. Realistically more money might shave a year or two of the timeline but I can’t see much more than that. With good teams on the rise for Kerry and a few others and a few years probably in dublin yet it might be a few years before we see a minnow come through, which I think would be the real measure of the process moving in the right direction

Happy to debate any of that btw, if you think there’s a viable way to accelerate the process across the country

Again Tritium thanks for a reasoned post.

The issue for the GAA is they took longer than they should have to roll it out elsewhere. The east Leinster project should have happened maybe 2 or 3 years sooner, when it became apparent that the dublin project was working (we can argue endlessly (and have) about whether it’s money or a once in a generation team behind dublin winning but it’s clear that dublins structures are improved) and by now should cover all of Leinster. I don’t know why it didn’t and I’m sure someone in the Leinster council can give reasons.

I think you have summed it all up here, but I might debate that it was probably 5/6 years too late and should have been rolled out nation wide.
But as it is we cannot turn the clock back.
Realistically Dublin have been given at least a 10 year head start in the implementation of superb structures which will take some time to be put in place in the rest of the country.

These structures will provide individual players to fill the gaps left by retirements unlike in previous times where a team would grow old together and take time to find a new crop of players to fill the void.
The U20s have been in 6 finals in the last 10 years, this increases the probability that Dublin dominance will continue for the foreseeable future.

dobman88

ooter wrote: »

Nobody begrudged Kerry the washing machine money or the Adidas money.

Not sure what the point is here.

Nobody is begrudging Dublin any money they get from AIG or any sponsor because it's a private deal between sponsor and county. Cork and sports direct. Kerry and Kerry group. Limerick and JP. Etc etc

Anybody begrudging sponsorship is an idiot who shouldn't be listened to and thankfully I haven't seen any complaints about sponsorship apart from some half baked pooling ideas.

ooter

dobman88 wrote: »

Not sure what the point is here.

The point is sponsorship wasn't allowed at the time and wearing Adidas was against the rules.

dobman88

ooter wrote: »

The point is sponsorship wasn't allowed at the time and wearing Adidas was against the rules.

Oh right. I'm still not sure how something from 40/50 years ago is relevant now. I may be missing the point but you've lost me.

ShyMets

Just to say that there has been some excellent posts here today.

Very informative and thought provoking. Really hope this standard of debate is maintained

cson

Some version of how they do it in the States with a draft is probably the longer term answer I think - I'm not sure how much longer they avoid professionalism given its here in all but name. Not sure how you'd do it though in terms of underage. It's a conundrum, the current path with the disparity of funding means Dublin, and the larger counties, will only widen the gap. Its a tricky one because we all dream of playing county growing up, so you'd be reluctant to let that go.

Lost Ormond

cson wrote: »

Some version of how they do it in the States with a draft is probably the longer term answer I think - I'm not sure how much longer they avoid professionalism given its here in all but name. Not sure how you'd do it though in terms of underage. It's a conundrum, the current path with the disparity of funding means Dublin, and the larger counties, will only widen the gap. Its a tricky one because we all dream of playing county growing up, so you'd be reluctant to let that go.

Draft only works if you change the whole transfer system and thats at club and inter county level so as you say how much are people willing to let that go?

Underage wouldnt change much. Each county would still have its squads and training groups from u14 through u15/16/minor/20s.

mitchelsontour

cson wrote: »

Some version of how they do it in the States with a draft is probably the longer term answer I think - I'm not sure how much longer they avoid professionalism given its here in all but name. Not sure how you'd do it though in terms of underage. It's a conundrum, the current path with the disparity of funding means Dublin, and the larger counties, will only widen the gap. Its a tricky one because we all dream of playing county growing up, so you'd be reluctant to let that go.

You would lose all sense of identity with a draft given how locality is one of the keys to the GAA.

You could look at something for Div 3/4 teams and players from the top counties who might be just below county level there but would want to / be willing to play for another county and are selected by draft. Probably on a regional basis so they are not travelling excessively.

Strumms

dobman88 wrote: »

Not sure what the point is here.

Nobody is begrudging Dublin any money they get from AIG or any sponsor because it's a private deal between sponsor and county. Cork and sports direct. Kerry and Kerry group. Limerick and JP. Etc etc

Anybody begrudging sponsorship is an idiot who shouldn't be listened to and thankfully I haven't seen any complaints about sponsorship apart from some half baked pooling ideas.

In fairness ‘some’ people have begrudged them this money, several people have suggested that it shouldn’t go 100% to Dublin but a percentage redistributed to other counties so they may also benefit.... which made me laugh, weeks, maybe months of negotiations and calculations and hard work, talking and negotiating with a potential possible sponsor... only for the GAA to try and say “ ok, we’ll take 30%-40% of that off you and redistribute it “.

Kim Jong-un would probably approve of that carry on. In a democracy, no...doesn’t quite work like that, just as splitting the teams/county won’t either...

Fann Linn

Irish Independent survey of GAA county chairmen reveals that only 1 /5 of same believe funding to Dublin should be cut and almost none of them believe Dublin should be split into.2/4/6 etc. Full details in this weekends edition.

Enquiring

Fann Linn wrote: »

Irish Independent survey of GAA county chairmen reveals that only 1 /5 of same believe funding to Dublin should be cut and almost none of them believe Dublin should be split into.2/4/6 etc. Full details in this weekends edition.

I'm pleasantly surprised by this. Going against HQ in relation to this matter, especially with a Dublin GAA president in place is not something that I thought any county board chairman would do. Answering a poll for a national newspaper. They all have to go to HQ to look for funding.

The journalist reporting on this appears to be placing a certain slant on the poll results. I'm not sure if the journalist is from Dublin, lives in Dublin or possibly used to write for the Dublin herald also but the poll results show that almost half of the county board chairmen who answered the poll either want Dublin funding cut or an immediate review of the funding to be undertaken and then the majority want increased funding for coaching.

Not a significant poll really but will have a look at the full results.

ooter

Dublin's funding has been cut, surely there has already been a review?

ArielAtom

Shock horror, people in charge actually know what is going on!!

MayoAreMagic

Fann Linn wrote: »

Irish Independent survey of GAA county chairmen reveals that only 1 /5 of same believe funding to Dublin should be cut and almost none of them believe Dublin should be split into.2/4/6 etc. Full details in this weekends edition.

In fairness, these lads are part of the system that put dublin so far in front in the first place, and im pretty sure they were made aware that their vote would be public knowledge. All sensibility in the intercounty level game points to reclassifying dublin as a province and working from there. Any time a team was dominating the game, crowds dropped off and interest waned. The same is happening now.

ooter

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Any time a team was dominating the game, crowds dropped off and interest waned. The same is happening now.

Kilkenny won 8 AI's in 10 years and it doesn't seem to have done much harm to crowds in that code.
Doping in a sporting context is usually means illegal activity, nothing Dublin have done over the last 15/20 years is illegal.

MayoAreMagic

ooter wrote: »

Kilkenny won 8 AI's in 10 years and it doesn't seem to have done much harm to crowds in that code.
Doping in a sporting context is usually means illegal activity, nothing Dublin have done over the last 15/20 years is illegal.

The crowds at hurling matches have increased, and interest in hurling has grown, since that period ended. However, the reality is you dont need to look for comparisons in other sports, we can see the attendances at football matches is dropping in the thousands, the evidence is there in front of you.
Actually, doping means doping. There were people doping in ways that were not illegal at the time throught many sports across the last 40 years. They subsequently were made illegal and it was doping in both instances. There are people still doping now in these sports who are skirting the rule book, but they are still cheating the system and their competitors.
The fact that you have run to the defence of 'well nothing is illegal' only underlines to me that you know it is wrong. Sport is supposed to be a fair competition with the best team winning. This isnt the case any longer in football, and it came to be in a deliberately unfair fashion via shamefully unfair funding. Therefore the term fits. Tou can dislike the term, or the tone in how some use it, but the term itself is factualy accurate.
The fact that the governing body is complicit doesnt change that reality. We had a great product and we have destroyed it truth be told.

ooter

Surely receiving money from rich benefactors and holding gala dinners is FD so?

JeffKenna

ArielAtom wrote: »

Shock horror, people in charge actually know what is going on!!

Where did that journalist learn maths?

Fann Linn

I think the loss of €34,000,000 last year will focus those in GAA HQ. Reading this morning also about John Horan seeking more PPV from streaming channels. I reckon there's gonna be far bigger issues to contend with than the usual cries of splitting Dublin up.